Re: More Microsoft CloudFog
The plan was to be able to blame someone else.
Not their servers, are they? So not their fault. Bonus please!
2274 posts • joined 26 Jun 2007
The plan was to be able to blame someone else.
Not their servers, are they? So not their fault. Bonus please!
I'm 35, and my go to is a red berry mix with a menthol/cooling overtone (vampire vapes Attraction, should anyone care).
I often wonder why they bother claiming that they're marketing 'to the kids' - you know, kids who can't legally buy this stuff and who likely can't afford it either, when theres a vaaaaast market of people who are willing to pay £10/day or more for their fix.
I'm pretty sure i know which ones I'd be marketing to, and suffice to say, it's the ones who have the money and are already spending it on a competing product that I have a better alternative to.
Steven "Won't someboooody theeeenk of theeeee cheeeeeldreeeeen" R
I'm generally pretty careful with me 18650s, but I realised that my current brace of 'em was a few years old. Never really abused (rarely above 150w in two or three cell mods, usually under half that) but the £50 for four brand new Samsung 30Qs (15A, 3000Mah) is more piece of mind for me than my own hamfistedness when it comes to rewrapping. They're probably a bit chemically tired by now, too.
That, and they should be good for a few more years of 50-75w dripping that I do when I'm not tapping away on my Innoken T20 tank at about 13w.
I treat cell replacement as just running costs, and it's just a 'few packets of fags' cost these days really....
Re withdrawal, I've had to do a couple of longish (three hours) train journeys, once when I smoked, and once when I used e-cigs - and forgot to take my chosen vice on said journeys (obvs you couldn't smoke on trains at this point).
When I smoked, I was really very irritable - the typical image you'd expect of a fagless smoker. I immediately found a corner shop upon leaving and picked up some baccy.
When I had the e-cig, I just rolled my eyes at my own idiocy, and read the paper. Went to my destination, got some coffee, then took my time reading reviews of vape shops in the area and found one that stocked the device I liked, sauntered over and picked up the device and some liquid.
I definitely find that I can be without the e-cigs far longer, without really minding too much.
Anecdotal, but I find a lot of people I know who use these devices share that opinion, and I'm genuinely curious if users of heat-not-burn devices find the same thing...
Absolutely, it's the physical addiction to nicotine
No, you're just repeating a statement, not making a definition.
Also, an article from an Indian journal (who have banned vaping and other THR) with an impact rating of just over 1.
That sounds like a reliable source, given that literally no-one else in the scientific world, outside of cranks and prohibitionists, believe that nicotine, in the doses delivered through any consumer product outside of combusted methods, is carcinogenic or notably any more harmful that, say, caffeine.
Hell, even IARC don't think it causes cancer, and they think pretty much everything causes cancer.....
Concentrating on nicotine and addiction ignores the fact that cigarette smokers are dying right fucking now when there is no need for them to do so, and whining about "addiction" is a moral position that, in the absence of notable harm to the end user, is a pricks game and a great example of perfect being the enemy of good enough.
No-one gives a toss about caffiene use, and with the correct delivery method - a non-combustible one - no-one should give a toss about nicotine use either.
Would anyone talking about vaping 'carrying on the addiction' care to actually define addiction, and apply that to e-cigs?
And then point out to me where the 'harm' part is, which is generally agreed to be a requirement for a definition of addiction - otherwise, it's just a habit.
Also, without tobacco smoke, nicotines ability to be addictive is questionable at best.
"Some e-cigarette users were dependent on nicotine-containing e-cigarettes, but these products were less addictive than tobacco cigarettes. E-cigarettes may be as or less addictive than nicotine gums, which themselves are not very addictive"
Steven "enjoys his little habit, which is why he no longer smokes 40 rollies a day" R
Different 18650s are rated to different constant current outputs - 10A is on the low end. Plenty are fine at 25A and above, although very few can manage a constant 30A (Sonys VCT range contain some).
However, that's constant draw - such as a cordless power drill, or angle grinder, being given a hot supper for a minute at a time, with five or six of those cells set up to provide 40 or 50A at around 8-12v, depending on the exact configuration.
In a vaping device, you rarely use them for more than a few seconds at a time - at higher wattages, even less.
This means you are into the pulsing range, and most cells can handle double their constant current when being pulsed, without any risk.
So a cell rated for 20A constant can typically handle a 40A pulse without risk. And in a mech mod with a fully charged cell, you're talking ~4v at 40A - ~150w depending on resistance of the coil. You can't do anything but pulse at that power level because your lungs can't maintain the airflow to stop the device from drying out/getting too hot/etc - so you take short, very fast, inhales.
If you have any doubt on this, bear in mind that if you were correct and all cells went pop as soon as they went past their rated max constant current draw, there would be hundreds of thousands of battery fires a year from e-cigs. We've seen hundreds in near a decade worldwide.
Real world evidence trumps internet hypothesis every time, I'm afraid.
Indeed, how long before we discover that vaping is as bad (or worse) as cigarettes...
The finest minds in public health have been trying to find notable harm to users - other than mild irritation, niccy rush, etc - for a decade and haven't found squat, mate. The user base is in the tens of millions and has been for years, and they haven't complained of any problems, either - and they're the ones most likely to be pissed if they get something nasty.
That, and as noted, basic toxicology, and not only that, just plain physics, denote that it's chemically and physically impossible for e-cigs to be as harmful as regular cigs in normal use. It's just not a thing that can happen, because damned near all the harm from smoking comes from the smoke. Something e-cigs don't create because there's no combustion.
This is very basic stuff. The Royal College of Physicians reckon that even with everything at worst case scenario outlooks, e-cigs could never be more than 5% the harm of lit tobacco (And that takes into account house fires second hand inhalation, etc, too), and it's likely to be far less.
Actual epidemiologists with extended experience of tobacco harm would argue that you shouldn't even compare the two, as it gives a false equivelance - it's like comparing an AK47 round being fired at someone, an AR15 round being fired at someone, and Munition X (a small stone being thrown by a toddler at someone, which they won't mention) - the comparison gives the impression to the layman that Munition X could be deadly, I mean otherwise, why'd they include it in the test....?
Anyway, enough prattling, I've got servers to kick violently up the 'arris.
Steven "Yeah, been there, done that" R
Pfft, they already have 'WARNING THIS DEVICE CONTAINS NICOTINE WHICH IS A HIGHLY ADDICTIVE SUBSTANCE' stickers on empty fecking tanks (which come with no liquid, and can be used with zero nic fluid at the users discretion).
Don't give them ideas...
You remembered that docco well.
Have some sham-pagun.
Steven "Inform the men" R
Indeed, I know some people who hated the comparative harshness of 50/50 PG/VG liquids, but when given a cloud chucking tank that takes the heavier stuff and needs more power, pretty much binned their smokes overnight.
The choice available is why these devices work, and to ignore that is to miss the fundamental point of these devices.
Steven "has run the gamut from 2w to 250w and settled on 13.5, thanks" R
Yup, PG is quite literally the 'non-toxic' part of non-toxic antifreeze.
But because people remember stories of dogs dying after licking up (ethyl glycol, not prop glycol based) antifreeze, they seem to think they're being clever when they drag that one out.
It's one of my Very Favourite ways of dismissing someone from an argument on the matter, as this is something that is very easy to fact check, but it sounds - from an uneducated standpoint - so good, doesn't it?
Shame that it's so far off base that it borders on 'not even wrong' territory then, eh?
Upon reflection, the headline is a bit shit too, given that someone is quite recently dead in rather unpleasant circumstances.
I know El Reg tends to sail close to the wind, but I'm pretty sure I'd be as narked if a similar headline had appeared on a story about an automated car death - so I'd like to think it's not just because it's my hobby being poked, etc.
A report last year by the US Federal Emergency Management Agency found that between January 2009 and December 31, 2016 there were 195 incidents where vape pens overheated or exploded, leading to 133 acute injuries to users, 38 or which were described as "severe."
That's in all of the US (as far as i'm aware - I don't think it was worldwide) over a span of eight years.
Lets just have a look at how smoking compares, given that's the direct habitual comparative - almost no-one who vapes didn't smoke at some point in the past....
In the last five years, there have been an average of 22 fires every week linked to smoking. Since 2013/14, there have been 5,978 fires in London linked to smoking, 416 people have been injured and a total of 76 people have died.
I hope that provides some context, given that's in half the time frame, and only in London.
Relative risk is relative. It's sad that someone has died as a result of these, but mech mods are specialist devices, with a passable analogy being like them not being a motorcycle, but a specialist, track weapon, non-road legal motorbike with no dials, lights, ABS or anti-wheelie and a whopping supercharger atop a litre engine so that it's pushing greater than 1000bhp/ton.
That is, you need to show absolute respect for the laws of physics before messing with one, or you'll likely Have A Very Bad Day.
I have no problem with mech mods. I have a problem with people who sell them without checking if the end user knows Ohms Law and how and where to buy solid, genuine cells, however. They make the rest of us - who just want to not smoke in an enjoyable way - look bad.
In the same way that you don't just walk into a Yamaha dealer and buy a Kawasaki Ninja H2R without the dealer being pretty fucking sure you know what you're doing, because they don't to be in the national press if you smear yourself down two thirds of the Craner Curves at Donnington slowly decelerating from 150mph on your face.
If it gets warm enough to generate condensation in the solar cycles, will they be the tears of a clown?
Apologies for the joke, and the earworm.
Steven "Dum dum dum, dada la da-da-da-da" R
NASA on Wednesday announced that a first round of tests - dubbed KRUSTY (Kilopower Reactor Using Stirling Technology) – have proven a success.
Their chief engineer added "Oy, after a my failure of a career in childrens television, it seemed pretty sensible to work at the local power plant for a few months, and brush up on my hobby of nuclear engineering, and this is what you get from that"
With apologies to....just everyone,
Quick, ban wall clocks, they're a fire hazard!
The slight issue here, as I understand it, is that 20a/3.7v is the rated specification, but the tested specification by users, electronics engineers in the scene etc is 30A pulse without any problems with excessive temperatures, and at 4.2v fresh charge - this is pretty standard.
So, 8.4 x 30 =252w theoretical max.
There's a reason why there are so many 200W 2-cell devices out there, and a distinct lack of explosions all over the place. The devices themselves will measure internal device temp (picking up heat soak from the cells) vdrop as the battery gets stressed, and won't fire at those power levels if the cells can't keep up; if it's asking for 4.1v from each of hte cells, and it's only getting 3.9, it'll force the device to a lower power level.
Bear in mind that almost all quality cells will pulse at a solid 33% of their constant discharge rating. And pulse discharge is pretty much exclusively how high power e-cigs work
I'll admit I prefer 3-cell mods for that sort of power though....if for no other reason than that the cells tend to last longer, in terms of real usage, and charge cycles.
The 'box mod' name is a hangover from when people used to have to make their own devices to power self-built atomisers that required more power than what simple batteries available at the time could provide (typically under 15w).
'Box mod' has just become an industry term for them - really, what you're thinking of is a 'series box' or similar unregulated device, which is a far more serious bit of kit.
As for the two cells, 200w, there's a lot of pissing about used to get 200w out of a 2-cell device, but it's not a case of it draws straight from the cells - it uses various stepup/step down techniques, at restricted ohmages, to reach that level of power.
Again, there's millions of devices out there, and very few failures (and even fewer catastrophic device failures - almost all are loose cells in the pocket type affairs).
There's a load of electronics shenanigans that are a bit above my level of expertise to answer on the subject of 200w devices with two cells, but there are a few explanations on the internet as to how it's acheived safely - such as not letting the device provide that much power once the cells get below 4v (it'll restrict you to 150, then 100, etc as the voltage drops).
Keeping yer dick in a vice, yeah?
Steven "Follows AvE too" R
Reciprocal follow circilejerk completed!
I prefer my shistposting to be constructive. It's quite enjoyable destroying the editor of BMJ TC (not a tobacco control journal, more a comic book for people who can't draw) and then following it up with a suitable GIF.
Gotta have some style with this shit, y'know?
Steven "The Shitposting Time Cat is my God" R
" I mean, My "NOT Smoking" isn't bothering anyone, now is it? "
I dunno, you're annoying me with your mewling.
Sit down, boy, the grown ups are talking.
"Shitposting kept at a minimum."
Well, that's totally put me off!
Spotted that follow, did wonder - don't worry, you'll regret it pretty soon I'd imagine ;-)
I've been off the smokes for six years now. Gone through the Egos, top wick tanks, bottom wick tanks, sub ohm tanks, multi coil tanks, RDAs, RDTAs, etc, anywhere from 5w to 235w.
Current device? Innoken T20 tank at 13.5w on whatever smallish battery pack I have to hand.
No need to post that, I was just reminiscing :-)
Number of electrical problems in that time with the devices or cells? None.
Except protected cells are invariably low power, and it's damned near impossible to get a regulated mod that doesn't have reverse battery protection and under voltage/overvoltage protection.
I really wish people would stop just assuming 'cheap chinese junk' when the devices they've used to make that comment were probably made in china too.
It's not cheap chinese junk - it's almost always a stupid user putting loose cells in his pocket.
It's almost never the device, not the battery, that's the problem.
Edit: I'm replying to AC, not 404, who has taken a similar tack in a slightly different direction to me ;-)
That's not *strictly* true - I've run multiple >200w devices (at greater than 200w, too...) and providing the batteries are even reasonably good quality, it's not so much of an issue because:
A: You can't inhale at >150w for more than couple of seconds (you don't have the lung capacity to match the vapour production for that long, it's that simple)
B: Most reasonable quality batteries can easily sustain that level of current as a pulse (IE under a few seconds, not a few minutes) without breaking a sweat.
Now, it's *possible* to run at 200w for more than that, if you're not using the device (IE accidental pocket press) but what tends to happen is that within a few seconds, the coils heat up so much (due to lack of airflow and wicking) that they break, and break the circuit.
Regulated devices also tend to have thermal detection on the board - if you run the device too hot (the cells will tend to sink any heat into the device) it'll refuse to trigger, full stop, till it's cooled down internally or you swap to nice, fresh, cool cells.
Of course, none of this quite the same with mechanical mods, (which are literally a switch, a coil/wick and a cell or two) or unregulated box mods (as a mech, but with some MOSTFETS and simple discrete compenentry to manage series/parallel, perhaps a POT to dial up/down power - nothing fancier than that though), but those are really quite specialist, and most users of mechs tend to be pretty switched on to battery safety, not letting them short out, etc.
Of course, not all of them do, so a minority of reported e-cig incidents involve mechanical mods that have failed in some way (pocket press, far too low ohmage coils, etc) but the vast, vast majority of these incidents are quite literally.
Someone buys some cells,
Someone puts them in their pocket with small change and house keys
Nature takes it course and attempts to seriously re-educate you.
There's some more nuance and detail involved (as with all these things - hopefully I've included enough info to clear a few misconceptions up at least, the rest, feel free to have a bit of a deep dive yerself, you're on a tech site, you're perfectly capable!) but basically, regulated devices are very, very reliable if looked after. That's why incidents like this make the headlines; despite hundreds of millions of these devices being out there, and cells too, fires from them are very rare indeed because 99.99999% of users are aware of basic battery safety that their parents and primary school drilled into them at a young age...
I've never been on reddit deliberately. I'm mostly a twittard for this stuff.
My argument doesn't get me £300/hr though, does it now?
Wait, does it?
But really, if you've got a link to LGs counter suit, I'd be interested to read it - always good to see how large corporations term the phrase 'are you a complete fucking moron, mate?' and couch it in nice, dry legalese....
Interesting, interesting - got linky, my good chum?
Steven "no, really" R
Why thank you very much my good fellow commentard.
If you skip through my post history, you'll see I've done this a *lot* on here ;-)
Steven "Knows his stuff when it comes to e-cigs" R
Sigh, it's quite sad in this day and age that I have to explain this to someone who should ostensibly have an interest in technology.
No-one claims e-cigs are completely safe or entirely non-hazardous, as nothing is, period - they are drastically safer and massively less hazardous than smoking - a habit which 99.5% of regular e-cig users were partaking of before trying e-cigs, either full time or experimentally. Literally almost no-one, proportionally, who uses e-cigs regularly (ie daily, habitually) is a previous non-smoker. We're talking <1% across the board, and <0.5% in most cases, in all age groups.
This means that almost everyone who uses an e-cig is getting a massive reduction in harm to themselves and those around them.
Saying e-cigs aren't entirely safe is like arguing that a car seatbelt might strange you in a crash - insomuch as it's completely missing the point and shows you to be an uninformed, puritanical moron who clearly doesn't even have the simplest grasp of the concepts involved in the subject matter.
Steven "Has read the science - almost all of it, thanks sci-hub - in case you were wondering" R
And the lawsuit explicitly states that he put them in his pockets.
Shorts can have pockets, too. Who says they can't?
Steven "more of a jeans guy" R
....or at least as much of it as I could without laughing my arse off.
Apparently, the lawyers client has convinced the lawyer to argue to that LG should have reasonably expected HG2 18650 cells to explode and warned clients as such.
This is the HG2 of which there are tens of millions in circulation, and dozens of incidents in the last decade of any 18650 related fires, never mind e-cig related ones.
In the last ten years.
Almost all of which are attributable to user-error-instigated short circuits (IE putting loose cells in a pocket or bag with loose metal - such as keys or coins).
So I'm now more of the case that it's the lawyer who has got a decent retainer up front, and is now going through the motions, because they don't have a hope in hell of winning anything other than some temporary publicity.
Either that or, less likely, the lawyer is going probono and doesn't realise just how badly they've just screwed themselves over.
Either way, the lawsuit all appears to be about the distributor, reseller and manufacturer taking responsibility - there's nothing in there about the end user actually having even the most basic battery safety knowledge. And I don't just mean specialist cells, the same shit applies to AAs, too....
Steven "paid attention in primary school science lessons" R
£5 says they were loose in his pocket, with change and keys.
Like they always are when shit like this happens.
And like everyone was told not to do with batteries as a kid.
I was told a similar story by an ex network-op of mine - as I recall (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) but it was something silly like Ghana (or at least, the state I was told about) having a very small netblock allocation as a country, or only having a single gateway in, or the whole lot being proxied through one server, or other similar 'brick wall' hard limit connectivity problem that up until then, hadn't been a problem.
Then 'something' occured that made their IP range get flagged up, the whole internet went down for the country.
I think the story I was told was about a Gulf state (Jordan? Qatar?) but it's apocryphal anyway, so it might be the same tale.
Anyway, reminiscence over, back to work, sigh.
Roger’s response? “At least it wasn’t a ghost!”
Pfft. Should have gone full scooby doo, given the symptoms.
Roger’s response? “At least it wasn’t a G-G-G-G-GHOST!”
Still, Roger probably wanted to keep his job...
"It seems odd that all ISP's don't offer email services. They surely cost practically bugger all and are a method of locking in customers."
Until you start dealing with being blacklisted because of spammers, maintaining relays, incoming spam filters (which are never as good as Google, et al), hardware maintenance and replacment (or expansion if you're doing it using your own internal cloud infrastructure) etc. And that's before you start looking at ensuring it stays secure, patching, minimising downtime etc.
People who think email is easy have never maintained a 'bare metal' email platform, in my experience. And those who have maintained a bare metal email service try to avoid it in future if they can help it...
Steven 'fingers burned' R
Fuck it I've bought one.
A gaming based set so that if I find it's not ideal for my needs, I can still play Stuntrace FX and Starwing on it.
Steven "hypocrite" R
"New SoC: I reckon about three years work. We need to ensure its robust, performant, certified with a solid SW base that works on day of release."
Ooh, from the horses mouth, it sounds like. And yeah, I reckoned it would entail more than just BGAing a new CPU in place and hanging some peripherals off it in the same form factor.
As a result of all this chatter, I've been looking at RasPis and their competitors quite a lot lately. And the more I look at it, the more a RasPi does seem to fit the bill well for the other stuff I'd like to use it for. It certainly seems to have a more mature ecosystem, although the Asus one looks pretty close when you trade the performance off against it...
IE, a simple setup for Docker testing (I'm fairly new to it) because that's A Thing you can do on them these days. HA broker for my little two box proxmox cluster (I don't want to sully my desktop machine with such things) and the like.
Steven "Turning to the dark side" R
James, cool - so I guess we're waiting for the current smartphone gen of SOCs (which have that sort of connectivity on board, or at least the capability for it) to mature and get cheapy cheap and well understood before a RaspPI would come with that sort of gear?
(hypothetically, of course).
Steven "I asked for those downvotes" R
Just things I'm thinking about off the top of my head. There are other uses for it, obviously (it'd make a fine broker for Proxmox/Ceph management I suppose).
I'd not turn one down at all (and I might actually have accidentally just blagged myself a free one from a colleague for sorting some stuff out for them last night) but I just keep wondering when they're going to have SATA and proper GigE.
You're not wrong, mind - GigE isn't essential, but when you don't have it, it's really noticable when you're shuffling images around etc. I think I just want to rationalise a RetroPi setup to myself that I could (reasonably) justify for works testing ;-)
Edit: While I toddle off to do some work, can anyone remind me why there's no true ethernet/sata/etc - is it a lack of a built in PCIe bus, etc? Genuinely curious, so if you're all going to downvote me, you can at least educate me at the same time, eh? :-)
That was the first thing I checked for, and again, why I haven't bought one.
I realise gigabit ethernet is power hungry when you're working at this scale, but proper GigE would make this far more appealing to me, in terms of picking a few up to play with containerization stuff, HA methodologies, etc (rather than messing with bulky old PCs).
I may still pick one up, but it's not a 'zero thought' purchase - again.
I'll probably get downvoted, it's still not quite a 'no brainer' purchase for me.
I get that reference!
I agree - as a sysadmin, the ability to pull a device out and be able to quickly through a terminal emulator and run basic diag, before dragging out the laptop if it's really necessary would be handy.
IE doing a quick htop, df -h etc - things that aren't as easy with a soft keyboard.
I think I'd need a reasonable linux distro on there, rather than Android, though.
I'll be watching this with interest.
"MalwareMustDie said it was unable to give any estimate on how many devices had already been infected"
I could tell you how many devices will get updated and patched against this though.
Hint - I bet it's not many.
People said the same thing about Lucozade, but they still haven't done it.
It started as a suggestion, then it was a voluntary thing, and now it's 'if you don't drop most of the sugar from your sugary drink, you'll be paying an extra tax per 100ml'.
Because according to some people*, sugar is the new tobacco.
Ah, S<censored>horpe, the bane of those suffering with poorly implemented content filters everywhere.
It's not about the hardware, or the architecture, it's about the control.
When people say the cloud is someone elses server, it's the someone else part that's the point - it's down to them what lives on that server, and you have basically zero say on that.
Your computer might not have whizzbang replication across multiple continents, but if you set up a script to remove all references to titties and run it on your porn collection, at least that's something you have done, and it's highly unlikely to have effectively done it itself.
Steven "doesn't back anything up because all his data is worthless" R
...is just grating.
I keep seeing ST200s and more recently, ST220s going fairly cheap on AutoTrader.
If I had a couple of grand burning a hole in my pocket, I can't help thinking one of those with a centre pipe removal and a decat would be quite a giggle.
Probably make more sense to fix my car first though (which hasn't happpened because I don't have a couple of grand burning a hole in my pocket...)
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