* Posts by codejunky

2528 posts • joined 24 Oct 2011

Fix this faxing hell! NHS told to stop hanging onto archaic tech

codejunky
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Re: @ wolfetone

@ strum

"What can?"

I wasnt attacking the NHS, I was just pointing out how the argument of always 'needing' more would remove its possibility of surviving. I disagreed with his choice of wording.

"Those who attack the NHS must imagine that they will always be able to afford any health costs that might hit them, as they begin to fall apart, with age."

That depends. The NHS is such an amazing and wonderful system that nobody in the world copies it. As health services go it could be much worse but it could also be much better.

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codejunky
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Re: @ wolfetone

@ Martin-73

"13 yrs of labour? WHEN?

Hint, Blair was conservative"

I am not sure which alternative universe you are from but he lead the labour party. And he had pretty impressive backing to actually get labour seen as a serious contender since before the 80's. With large support from the population particularly labour supporters.

I understand he is ridiculously toxic and an embarrassment to the country but before him labour were unelectable since before the 80's. Corbyn is willing to give us a demonstration why (and is demonstrating it already). Your claim that Blair was a tory implies labour has been unelectable for nearly 40 yrs and counting!

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codejunky
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Re: @ wolfetone

@ pɹɐʍoɔ snoɯʎuouɐ

".... And the NHS will always NEED more "

Then it cannot possibly survive. If it always needs more then it can never have enough and must collapse. I hope there is a way around that. Delivering healthcare is more important than pleasing an insatiable maw.

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codejunky
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@ wolfetone

"Fund the NHS properly"

What is properly? Under 13 years of labour, through one of the greatest booms, after selling gold and racking up debts money wad pissed all over them. We are giving them more now than Brown and his spending.

This is not a low tax country so I would be happy for the gov to throw away less and give it to our services, or even back to the people they rob. But chances are it would come from the budget of defence or education or something else. And the NHS will always want more.

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It's 2018 so, of course, climate.news is sold to climate change deniers

codejunky
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Re: Something in common

@ Thought About IT

Amusingly you could pick the other sides and the Venn diagram will still intersect with their aversion to facts. Almost like tribes stick with their tribes through right and wrong.

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UK taxman outlines its CHIEF concerns for customs IT systems

codejunky
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Re: Hmm

@AC

"...of 37.5% of the electorate."

Or for the hard of understanding the majority vote.

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codejunky
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Re: A new golden era of prosperity

@ Doctor Syntax

"They certainly will. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44805565"

From your sourse "to set up its subsidiary in Brussels". So what. That is the way to get around the EU rules brought in because we hurt their feewings. It was so reactionary and ill thought through they pissed off a country about to give them bailout money (for the Euro) who held it back until a banking arrangement could be made. AKA another dumbass EU foot shot.

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codejunky
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Re: Hmm

@ Doctor Syntax

"True, but by then it will be too late and we'll be facing huge negotiations to get back in."

Possibly but that assumes absolute betrayal (still a possibility with how May is going) or that a party advocating joining the EU actually wins an election (libs didnt do well last time).

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codejunky
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Re: A new golden era of prosperity

@ NerryTutkins

The 27 would more likely be interested in the financial services which the Eurozone puts a vast majority through London but is something like 14% (if I remember right) of London's business. Not sure what they would stock up on however, probably any currency but Euro.

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codejunky
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Hmm

I wonder how they could possibly plan for what the potential leave the EU situation? Maybe by assuming we would leave the EU? Not exactly laying this at HMRC's door as the gov are the ones who should have stepped up to the plate and driven a full brexit. Instead we dont know what we will have which pretty much demonstrates the desperation to force us to remain.

An interesting approach to light a fire in their pants and get them moving might be to not collect nor try to collect on whatever they do not have systems to process. When less money is being taken by the tax man I expect a few minds will get focused.

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UK.gov is ready to talk data safeguards with the EU – but still wants it all

codejunky
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Re: The problem is at Westminster and more precisely in the Executive

@ John Smith 19

"You could also make a good case for some departments p**s poor implementation of EU rules."

Thats true. I seem to recall some complaint that Blair made it so EU law became UK law and of course they gold plate it (because we tend to follow the law in this country). But then he nearly sold us out to the Euro!

"I'm not sure who runs the Detention Centers, where people have been kept in some cases for a decade or more because the relevant Dept can't seem to sort out their f**king paperwork."

A worryingly EU approach as of the latest suggestions with the intent to make such places, they hope outside the EU borders. They got themselves in a right mess unfortunately.

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codejunky
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Re: Hmm

@ Roland6

"Just starting to realise what I've been saying for years? The problem is at Westminster and more precisely in the Executive - the proxy monarch in Parliment."

Not at all. Aware of the issue and have advanced from that plenty of times before. My response being how does placing an incompetent level of government which is less accountable over an incompetent government people cry is accountability lacking an improvement. It makes the situation worse not better.

"Remember it was successive Executives that signed all the EU treaties that got us into the current mess."

Exactly. And we vote for them. Can you imagine the amazing incompetence that having the EU level brings? Look at the multiple self inflicted crises they have caused their people to suffer. What kind of idiot looks at that wreck and says 'ooh I gotta get me some of that'? At least through voting we have some influence (as the brexit vote proved).

"Hence why I laughed when Brexiteers expected the Executive to take us out of the EU and deliver anything that was beneficial to the average joe voter without reforming the House of Commons."

How do we reform the EU if we cant even deal with the UK? Good point, and so we need to leave the EU.

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codejunky
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Re: Conflicted

@ Loyal Commenter

"'Eurosceptic' is a marvellous self-given label, isn't it."

It wasnt self given. When we had the same arguments over the Euro in the UK as we do over membership we who didnt fall for the currency were called Eurosceptics. We were labelled and the label was associated with idiots and racists etc. And when we were proven right the label vanished. I keep it about to remind those who were vastly mistaken.

"and eschew it for emotive cries, distortions of the facts, cherry-picking and outright lies"

Such as the punishment budget. Back of the queue with the US (the wording chosen by Cameron and spoke by Obama). Pretending the EU is not in multiple crises (self inflicted). Believing the fall in currency and improvement of the economy to be a bad thing. Yup you remainers match that line perfectly. Glass houses are fun.

"Goebbels himself advocated the far-right presenting itself as something it is not in order to win popular opinion."

Are we bordering Godwins law? The club to look after each other, except Greece. Lands of laws, so many laws, but only some need to be followed and not others. A capitalist dream and a socialist utopia. Yup the EU ticks box's there but I dont think they are far left or right, just incompetent. They do seem to be fearing the left and right parties because any party against the EU or Euro seems to suddenly get a boost of support.

"FWIW, the 'counter-protesters' I previously refereed to as gammons were all the sort of far-right thugs you'd expect to see up in front of the beak for fighting in the town centre on a Friday night."

I can believe it. Just like the intolerant mobs against democracy.

"They can, however, be considered to represent those who feel strongly enough about it to turn up to protest for the sort of hard brexit you have advocated yourself."

Of course these people turn up for a hard brexit. So what? The amusing idea that remainers are any better? Those marching with absolute hatred and intolerance regardless of their view, but its ok if they are on your side? Sod that an idiot is an idiot.

"You should maybe reconsider the company you are keeping."

Why? What is wrong with the company I am keeping? Do you somehow imagine that we are all thugs? Or is it the few that you use to tar the rest? That is a good way to avoid facts, its like the XFactor brexit competition of 'well you support Farage' 'Yeah you support Blair'. Instead of such mob rule we use democratic voting. If your against that- "You should maybe reconsider the company you are keeping."

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codejunky
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Re: Hmm

@ Loyal Commenter

"I hate to burst your bubble, but since her own government is in (admittedly lesser than May's) disarray, Merkel isn't considered to be the leading member of the EU."

As a country Germany still has a poll position. It used to be a twin engine but France caught the socialism fire and that label was quickly dropped.

"In fact, the last time I checked the leader(s) of the EU were Jean-Claude Juncker and Donald Tusk"

Two names that really do drive people to leave. How is the scandal going on Junker now? He seems a little quieter of late.

"and the national president who is considered to be the political figurehead is Emmanuel Macron."

How is the reformist doing? At first he had all this media news of how he would transform the EU (probably why the national front got second place) even though the French would probably vote out if given a choice.

"It sounds to me more like May sounding out her own ill-formed ideas with the only EU head-of-state who'd give her the time of day any more, because her own government is so fractured she is clasping around in desperation."

I cant imagine there is much faith in May from in or out of government. Deferring to an EU member on our membership of the EU does smack of stupidity.

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codejunky
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Re: Conflicted

@ Loyal Commenter

"all want us out"

+52%

"Most professional politicians who know enough about what the EU does, how it works, and how it benefits the UK"

In their nice little pockets. And when someone like Blair comes along to sell us out for a shot at US president we can see the benefits. I think Greece saw the benefits too before they were cut in EU imposed economic damage.

"May was stupid enough to take the poisoned chalice that Cameron"

Yes. A weak remainer trying to organise brexit, not a good sign.

"many of whom have realised that they were hoodwinked and have changed their mind."

So the wet dreamers tell us, the same wet dreamers who cant understand a democratic vote and majority result. http://www.continentaltelegraph.com/brexit/disastrous-brexit-process-means-more-brits-want-to-leave-eu/

"Over a hundred thousand people marched through London a few weeks ago to make their feelings felt against brexit."

I know it is a complicated concept so I will have a go at explaining it. We had a vote. The people could vote either way. People voted. The result is in. It doesnt matter that the minority dont like it, nor that a minority of the minority dont like it. Suck it up buttercup.

"Even at the height of the campaigning, there weren't that many fervent pro-brexit supporters."

The ones who understand the concept of voting and therefore legitimately voted for the outcome instead of mob attempts to enforce a minority view? Makes sense.

"A counter-march of a few hundred angry gammons. I'm not sure why they were all angry, but they were. They should "get over it"; they "won"."

Gammons is not as fun as eurosceptic. Eurosceptic is a great badge which resembles what we were against and of course a nice label to take when we were proven right. Gammon just makes me hungry. I have no idea why they were angry, possibly because crybabies throwing insults and tantrums since the referendum irritating their last nerve.

"They should "get over it"; they "won"."

Maybe if remain voters would keep repeating that last bit it might sink in as to why we are leaving. Or give a clue about voting. Maybe even learn something about democracy. Or maybe they will just go back on the streets shouting how they are right and everyone else is wrong, waaaaaa.

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codejunky
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Hmm

An interesting detail about this of course being that May discussed this new plan with Merkel before including her colleagues. And of course there was a shortage of copies which even the new Brexit minister hadn't seen.

It is interesting to see who runs the country. Is it the people? No we voted to leave. Is it the gov? Well they didnt get to read the deal in time to debate it. Is it the EU? Well the proposal hasnt got that far yet. Is it the leading member of the EU? Well I guess at least she approves of the deal to be proposed by the UK supposedly for the UK.

And if May sells us out to the EU I bet remainers will still be the complainers that somehow it is not their fault.

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codejunky
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Re: Conflicted

@ big_D

"So, the UK wants "out", but it wants to stay in... Glad that is sorted."

Almost. The UK wants out and the politicians want in. The end result likely pleasing nobody.

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Python creator Guido van Rossum sys.exit()s as language overlord

codejunky
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Re: Here's a PEP

To be honest I do appreciate the forced indentation formatting but that is possibly because I have had to decipher code written by a lazy programmer who either didnt indent or worse sporadic indentation and not necessarily correctly lining up.

While I dont do anything serious in python (never had the need) I do keep coming back to it for my own little projects and I do like it. Like all languages it is a personal preference thing.

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US taxman wants AI to do the security checks it seemingly can't do itself

codejunky
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Re: @ James 51

@ Pascal Monett

"Because you think that Apple, Google, Microsoft and Uber are paying their fair share of tax ?"

Actually no, the law says they are. They are paying what they owe as they should be. That doesnt stop people from trying to rob them or make them pay more as if that would reduce the tax burden on everyone else.

"Get those four to pay proper taxes and you could practically double the salary of every teacher in the States. And give them proper equipement. And probably refurbish their schools."

I recognise this dream. The idea that someone is rich so if we rob them we could have milk and honey and even some left over. The communists tried that, it went well. The bad news is if you are in the west you probably are that rich person. You talk of doubling salaries and yet around the world are places without a teacher never mind a school. The idea of equipment or a school building being beyond their dreams. Sorry to tell you but you probably are the rich. And that delusion that just squeezing you would pay for all that for the poor is still nothing more than a dream.

Instead of starting with green eyes start with a real position. What is proper taxes? They already pay what they owe by the law. So what is this proper they should be paying for you to demand spending elsewhere?

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codejunky
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@ James 51

The problem is the lack of them. Instead they follow the laws and pay all that is due.

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Hurry up and make a deal on post-Brexit data flows, would you? Think of UK business – MPs

codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Roland6

"If the Cabinet fails to reach an agreement this weekend on what it wants and that includes walking away, the UK government (and by implication "the UK") looks stupid to the world - what a great way to start a whole set of new trade negotiations..."

Very true. The remain position cannot be defended, should not be defended and would be amazingly embarrassing to bow down to. We had the vote, the result was clear by the rules of the referendum and there is no grey area.

Unfortunately that assumes democracy and choice. If we dont leave the EU it proves we are trapped there and democracy comes second to the gravy train.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Roland6

"T.May's weekend away at Chequers to try and get some agreement from her Cabinet"

I doubt she will get that. By now we should have walked away, this clinging on is not useful. The EU have rejected our proposals, we dont want to be bent over (and have no reason to) so job done.

"However, the signs are that either the Cabinet willl fail to reach agreement or the agreement they reach won't be acceptable to Mogg et al and so gets shredded by the ardent Brexiteers in the Conservative party. In which case what should the EU negotiators do?"

To be honest I cant speak for what the EU negotiators should do. I dont even think they have the freedom to think about that. While not a good thing for the EU our base and so far best position is to leave with no deal. If the EU can recover from having its feelings hurt (and not look weak to its members) it could try for a mutually beneficial deal, but they dont seem interested and that is their prerogative. We cant tell the EU what to do and they have no position to dictate to us. We should split amicably with or without a deal.

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codejunky
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Re: Ha

@ nsld

"Which protectionist tariffs would those be?"

Running with your idea that they are not protectionist why are remainers crying that we will struggle to trade with the EU outside the single market? You are obviously arguing they are wrong so brexit wont be so much of a problem.

However they are protectionist. To start with they are in trade war with the US. But enjoy-

https://capx.co/the-eus-customs-union-is-a-protectionist-racket/

https://fee.org/articles/the-eu-is-still-sweet-on-protectionism/

http://www.continentaltelegraph.com/brexit/proof-perfect-that-the-eu-is-mercantilist-protectionist-not-free-traders/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/10/09/china-protests-the-european-unions-unfair-duties-and-tariffs-on-steel/#4772ef967ff8

"like many people you take a headline maximum tariff and then apply at will without understanding any of the underlying trade deals"

So there must be a trade deal to get around protectionist tariffs? That simply cancels out your idea that they dont have protectionist tariffs.

"Take the great coffee tariff myth in which the EU impoverishes Africa"

4 month ago I posted about this. I quote-

I am sorry if this is incorrect. I must admit the document I am looking at is from 2011 (section9 page5)- http://www.ico.org/documents/icc-107-7e-tariffs-trade.pdf

This points out the 7.5% has an effective rate much higher. I linked to this source from- https://capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/

"Food will not get cheaper, its already got more expensive thanks to weak sterling and intermittent supply"

Actually this is stupidity. We are still in the EU therefore if food is more expensive (or even cheaper) right now it is a function of being in the EU.

"adding in WTO tariff schedules isn't going to make it cheaper even if we go with the Minford fantasy and drop all tariff barriers"

Actually dropping the tariff barriers would make imports cheaper, as tariffs make them more expensive.

"throw food safety out of the window."

Please tell me your not one of those who fell for the chlorinated chicken mythical problem? It was funny reading complaints about it against the food safety conclusion.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@AC

"49% were negative or very negative about the outcome of negotiations.

65% were negative or very negative about perception of the government's communications."

I can very well believe that considering the gov seems to be trying to force a negotiation with the EU that doesnt want to, we are either in or out. But the CBI want to remain in the EU, the source you link is the unsatisfactory performance of the gov to advice on the way forward. Two very different things.

Wanting to leave the EU and thinking our gov is doing a good job are two different things.I am sure you will find plenty leave voters unhappy with the gov.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Loyal Commenter

"I'd just like to point out, that links to newspaper articles (especially the likes of the Daily Express, or the Telegraph), and links to pro-brexit propaganda sites are not in the class of things generally considered to be verifiable sources."

So you want reports of the negotiation process where the negotiators are refusing to negotiate, but not from news reports of the negotiation process and only from pro-remain sources as you consider them reliable? I guess you also expect other people to be blindfolded and hog tied when competing with them?

"Now, if those articles have references to verifiable studies (preferably peer-reviewed, or review papers representing the opinions of a majority of experts in the field)"

That the EU negotiators demand money, Irish border and interference in a foreign country before they will 'negotiate'? You want peer reviewed by only what you call experts? Do you work for the cigarette companies disproving they cause cancer? Surely the actions and words of the very negotiators should be enough to discuss this? At least honestly.

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codejunky
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Re: Ha

@ CrazyOldCatMan

"You really, really don't understand the word "negotiation" do you? Especially one where the two paries have a huge disparity in negotiating power.."

I do. Thats why I am amazed at this insistence on trying to get the EU to negotiate when we have no need for them to. The negotiating power is with the one who gets their way anyway and we can leave without the EU's approval. In no way does that give the EU negotiating power.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Yes Me

"1. Sovereignty. EU members keep their sovereignty"

Erm, no. Otherwise we can ditch the EU regulations for the domestic market and organise our own trade outside the EU. Amusingly the remain argument that members keep their sovereignty runs opposite to the remain argument that the EU stops govs from doing extreme things.

"1a. Since Brexit would make both N.Ireland and Scotland much more likely to leave the UK within a few years, the sovereignty argument rings pretty hollow anyway."

Actually no it doesnt, it actually enhances the argument to claim that. Scotland is unlikely to leave the UK, they didnt even want to when they had a referendum but now there isnt much will for it. Where the idea NI want to leave the UK came from I have no idea. If they did I am not particularly for or against it.

"2. Economics. Every serious analysis shows that Brexit will be disastrous for the UK economy"

That works well as long as you ignore fact. Once we introduce fact such ideas fall hard. The industry begging to remain you speak of is the CBI, so thats big business covered and most of the economy ignored. So lets start with what has happened, the facts. We vote leave, the currency fell a bit (from being overvalued) and suddenly the economy improved. This expectation was backed by Osborne and Carney (presented as bad but their aims since 2008-present), King and the outcome being the desired outcome to improve our economy. If we actually leave the EU the protectionism of the EU no longer applies, which reduces import costs. The particular import cost of interest being food as it affects the entire country rich or poor and is a stimulus, effectively a wage rise.

"3. Immigration won't stop after Brexit: when we need workers, they will come. Most people don't come here except to work, anyway."

And at no point did I expect it would stop. However instead of letting anyone from the 'approved' countries wander in we can apply a better system. I say this having friends world wide who basically had to come here as students or wives of immigrants here as students or are pretty much excluded from coming here. The exception being the EU friends who have no problem wandering over and finding employment. Why must it be so difficult for those outside the EU and so easy for those within?

"4. Trade. See point 2. If we lose all our free trade agreements overnight as well as losing free access to the EU market, our trade in both goods and services will not stop dead"

Good news for you, that shouldnt happen anyway. The gov should be organising trade agreements with the queue already to be signed the minute we leave. But trade agreements are not the be all end all, removing the protectionism of the EU will also solve the problem too. The amusing idea that the UK will become impoverished assumes something drastic like Corbyn taking power.

Now lets think through the alternative- the EU. There is no denying without serious delusion that the EU is in multiple crises and mostly self inflicted. The Euro which should have collapsed as eurosceptics predicted was instead continued to the serious damage of economies and the serious impoverishment (your choice of words) of Greece. The damage being so bad that their heath service stopped and relied on the generosity of private drug companies. They are a global threat to financial stability and you want to remain chained to that?

They have a migration crisis thanks to a huge mistake by Merkel which the EU for some reason accepted and adopted. The EU now considering prison camp style accommodation for asylum seekers and migrants while desperately paying migrants to go away.

And the political crisis where the EU is becoming as popular as a burning bag of excrement on the porch. The Greeks failed attempt to rebel as the country was purchased by the EU, Italy voting for a anti-EU and anti-Euro parties to run the country (the EU fearing a rerun as they would gain further majority) and of course the French voting for a president to reform the EU and second place to the national front. The French president admitting the French would possibly vote out if given a choice. And those are but a few.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ strum

"When will Brexiteers cotton on? The UK is leaving EU - not the other way round."

It doesnt seem to be brexiteers struggling with that concept. We are leaving, what we want is leave, we go. Remain on the other hand seem to think the UK need to negotiate leaving, when leaving just involves not participating in their little project. A trade deal would benefit us both, but it is up to them to be willing to negotiate. They want money, they want a hard border in Ireland, they want they want they want- and we dont have to give them anything. But we are willing to negotiate.

"Lies about "The EU have said they wont negotiate" won't convince anyone."

They made demands. If their demands are not met they wont negotiate. So yes they wont negotiate. They do not accept any solutions to Ireland (apart from the amusing idea of annexing it) and offer no solutions for what is their problem. Oddly they seem to reject a lot of suggestions without making any serious offers. Which of course leads to hard brexit.

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codejunky
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Re: Ha

@ Hans 1

"You should really stop taking all that codeïne, it is both bad for your health, affecting your mental health and your sense of reality."

Let me guess you are for remain and this was the first thing you could come up with. Leave readers will be shocked, shocked I tell you.

"You understand that those jobs will move to the EU, right ? To Paris"

That is really funny. I am sure bankers will love it there as the French president offered to hold off an additional taxation on them for just 1 year. In your source you may want to notice something- "thanks partly to the widespread acceptance of English law and language and the City's financial power it's managed to corner the market." There is an entire EU and yet that alone is why London is the place of choice. International reserve currencies have to be able to clear outside the EU too so the EU wet dream of the banking sector moving left them nothing but damp.

"I do not want the UK to backtrack (they cannot, anymore anyway), I want the leavers to get a good whiff of what Brexit smells like!"

So be happy. We voted leave, we want out of the EU and if that is how you see yourself I can understand your hurt feelings that someone would vote leave. Maybe you could also want a hard brexit or maybe a sensible trade agreement for mutual benefit while mutually splitting? That way we could both be happy.

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codejunky
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Re: Ha

@ Dave Schofield

"So you want to ruin the environment along with both the farming and manufacturing sectors?"

Really? Thats the best you have? Some claims without anything to support them.

@ nsld

"Food won't get cheaper."

You seem pretty alone on that one. Even with the currency drop yes it will due to the protectionist tariffs no longer applying.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Roland6

"The UK gov needs to fess up and admit the EUUK gov is a total clusterfuck and thats why we are calling it off."

I am not sure either side will argue with you there :) although I still stand by my contribution.

"It is interesting that the EU is worried that T.May's government may not survive to complete the Brexit negotiations..."

May is a weak remainer with the leadership of the man at the back. The EU are probably glad they dont have to deal with someone with a spine and willing to handle brexit. This would have been over by now.

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codejunky
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Re: Ha

@ Doctor Syntax

"How? UK businesses get cut off from a large part of their home market. What's this economically sane policy you propose to replace that? Print large amounts of money?"

My first laugh is that the EU is printing large amounts of money and we stopped with the QE. First reduce tariffs. Upon leaving the EU food is cheaper to import, reduce the EU protectionism and we can import much more cheaper. For anyone who cries about manufacturing that is a good thing.

Also bin the EU Co2 objectives etc, we have power generation it is the power plants shut down due to regulation. Stop building monuments to the sky and our energy bills will drop considerably (cheaper generation but also stable).

Both of those reduce the cost of living for everybody! The whole country has reduced cost of living. Sounds like a good start. Also we wont be losing access to the EU and all trade stopping, that is project fear.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Loyal Commenter

"No, it's the vast majority of business leaders, scientists, and economists"

The representation of big businesses? Yeah they are complaining (nobody cares about the small). Scientists reliant on EU hand outs? They are complaining, Really! Economists? Some yes, and assuming we do stupid things they complain such as the maximum WTO tariffs or continue as if we are in the EU.

"Many of whom are a great deal more knowledgeable and intelligent than you or I."

Of that I can be certain and I wouldnt claim to know more. Instead I weigh up the evidence, just like the Euro debate years back, and I weigh up the facts, just like the Euro debate years back, and I back whichever seems the most reasonable, just like the Euro debate years back. I remember we were doomed back then too.

"Unless you can come up with a verifiable source for that, which confirms the statement, in context, I'm calling bullshit on that, and pretty much everything you have posted here today."

Understandable-

https://brexitcentral.com/beware-negotiating-giant-eu-jellyfish/

http://www.continentaltelegraph.com/politics/as-donald-tusk-says-theres-no-point-in-negotiating-with-the-eu-over-brexit/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/04/30/eu-issues-brexit-negotiating-platform-this-is-toddler-stuff-not-adult/#5957da7f7ede

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/836592/Brexit-news-former-eurocrat-predicts-EU-UK-trade-deal-is-impossible

and of course we all know of the 3 demands before any negotiation is allowed.

@ Rich 11

"Are you accusing them of having red lines all of their own, cunningly disguised as founding principles? How dare they!"

Nope. Just that they dont want to negotiate. We are either in or out.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Loyal Commenter

"The reality is that experts in every field are saying that they will be damaged by brexit and are stating in detail how this will happen"

Are they? Would this be the experts who predicted 2 of the last 0 recessions and now claim it will be after brexit at some point (oddly coinciding with the business cycle). Osborne and Carney arguing against what the treasury and BoE have been aiming for since 2008 and are still doing? Hang on, are these the same experts who said we would suffer badly for not being in the Euro years ago?

"The leavers have not been able to come up with one single argument about how leaving the EU will improve the lot of the British voter that stands up to even mild scrutiny"

Except on topics of sovereignty, economics, immigration, trade, etc? I have this discussion regularly on here and remain arguments dont stack up and fall in the face of reality. But of course we are all still doomed or something.

"Of course, pointing out the many and profound failings of brexit is just 'project fear', and 'doing Britain down'."

Such as a punishment budget, Osborne and Carney arguing against the aims of the treasury and BoE, predicting 2 of the last 0 recessions, etc.

"People are finally starting to realise that those who shout the loudest frequently have the least to say."

Recognising the problem is the first step. I wondered how long remain propaganda could continue before this was realised.

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codejunky
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@ Loyal Commenter

"The person put in charge of those negotiations has spent all of four days this year doing his job"

If that is true then surely that is a positive. The EU have said they wont negotiate. The ball is in their court no matter how much we may want to get on with actual negotiation. So why should that person waste their time when there is no negotiation?

"It's not the EU's fault that our government is incapable of coming up with sensible suggestions that don't completely conflict with the founding principles of the EU"

Actually it is. The EU can negotiate whatever it wants, it chooses not to negotiate. That is their choice and I dont care either way. Instead of proposing anything of use the EU have made amusingly stupid suggestions beyond anything we could consider. As I said they dont want to negotiate and thats what we need to be prepared for, no deal.

"It's the sheer arrogance of dogmatic leavers who refuse to accept the facts."

The fact that we are willing or that the EU is not? That isnt arrogance. Arrogance would be trying to cut its nose off to spite its face, as the EU is achieving.

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codejunky
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Re: @ Loyal Commenter

@ Loyal Commenter

"Good. Maybe some reality will percolate in there eventually."

I keep waiting but unfortunately people keep repeating that line. Maybe you are right, maybe people saying it will see some glimpse of reality at some point.

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codejunky
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@ Loyal Commenter

"surely it's time to UK.GOV to 'fess up and admit brexit is a total clusterfuck and call the whole thing off"

I read this more often than I like. The UK gov needs to fess up and admit the EU is a total clusterfuck and thats why we are calling it off.

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codejunky
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Ha

"As such, the government is told to push the EU to start negotiations with urgency"

Moron bangs gums achieves little. How can the UK push the EU to negotiate something when the EU have clearly stated they will not negotiate? Getting this far has been an embarrassing show of asking the EU to negotiate even though they clearly refused it. Negotiation takes 2 willing parties. We are willing, the EU are not and that has been made clear. That isnt to bash the EU, if they dont want to negotiate that is up to them.

"because leaving the bloc without a deal would cause businesses on both sides major problems."

No kidding. The EU will not be happy for long if they lose access to the place performing 70% of the Euro clearing. They can make an EU light one in the EU outside the global financial centre if they want but with the state of their currency and wanting the Euro to be an international reserve currency that will a tough effort for them. The passporting problems intended to punish us pissed off their friends bailing the Euro out but the businesses have bypassed that easy enough. To think this will only be a problem for the UK is an optimistic view (if that is the right way to say it) for the EU.

"The UK government should be preparing for the adequacy process and ensuring that there is no risk of a gap in legal provision for transferring data between the UK and the EU after December 2020"

The UK gov and businesses should be preparing for hard brexit and leaving the EU proper. The government needs to be ready to cut that string and prepare to boost the economy with economically sane policies.

"high chance of a legal challenge to any proposed UK-EU data international agreement"

Why cling on by the fingernails when you are standing on the floor? If such agreements will be so fragile then lets concentrate on doing something useful instead.

"Such alternatives would represent a considerable change from the status quo, would place a bureaucratic burden on individual businesses, a burden which would be prohibitive for many small businesses."

How interesting. The burden of the EU inflicted on small business but a benefit to big business and yet this claim seems to suggest the opposite? Sod off.

"However, EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has indicated that the UK's suggestions might not be possible"

Unfortunate figurehead of a negotiating team not allowed to negotiate makes some vague comment about being unable to negotiate. Poor guy.

Lets just get out and focus on our own country instead of the EU's needs and desires.

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Galileo, here we go again. My my, the Brits are gonna miss EU

codejunky
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Re: Can join up with the U.S. instead.

@ John Smith 19

"High Chancellor Rees-Moog (I think that's got the right sort of historical ring to hit for his liking) would look like a Communist state to Trumps presidency."

Communism was a failed experiment of socialism. Rees-Mogg being a traditional conservative and right wing doesnt sound like a socialist so would be very unlikely to try communism. Not to defend the guy, just to point out the mistake.

"But heay they voted Brexit by a 13/12 majority so getting them to believe actually being the 51st state would be child's play."

How is that better or worse than being the 28th state of a political block that is falling apart? At least we share a common language with the US, and outlook on law, and economic competency. So instead of laughing at joining the US it might be better to question how being tethered to the EU is a good thing or somehow better.

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codejunky
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Re: things brushed under the rug..Euro supporters..vanished once eurosceptics were proven right.

@ John Smith 19

"In what way have eurosceptics been "proved right" ?"

Based on your previous comments I assume you are not opening with a joke although it sounds like one. The Euro has been a colossal failure and inflicted serious damage on Europe. That is why the label eurosceptic vanished because we were right when there was talk of imposing the EU currency on our country. Please tell me you know about/remember that.

"All the graduates I'd spoken too did degrees on subjects with relevance to the 21st century"

So? The point I made about your anecdotal evidence is it didnt stack against my anecdotal evidence, the difference being I am not trying to draw conclusions from it. But to compare the people I encountered had anything from no degree, sociology degree all the way to doctors of hard science. It made little difference, those who had any experience of working and living tended toward leave, those who were recent graduates of anything were for remain with few outliers.

The mistake to make is to think voting leave was uneducated. Invoking politicians as a reason to vote one way or the other reduces the intelligence of the debate to XFactor, with unsavoury characters on either side.

Moving away from tribal or boy band politics and instead looking at the facts and issues the EU debate becomes worth something.

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codejunky
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Re: so many..of pensionable age..difficult..to understand..some people('s)..rights are now over

@ John Smith 19

I wonder if people will look back on Brexit and think "Yeah, that's the time when the old betrayed the young by depriving them of their future for some bu***hit fantasy."

I dont know. I expect it will be one of those things brushed under the rug like Euro supporters who pretty much vanished once eurosceptics were proven right. I am wondering how the EU will be remembered depending on its time in existence. Will it survive long enough and do enough good to outweigh the damage it has inflicted? And will it be remembered as a positive attempt that lost its way or just a fleeting thought to be forgotten like the USSR.

"Actually the only real dividing line I found when I asked my British friends how they voted was this.

The Remainers were all Graduates. None of the Leavers had a degree, although I'd say they could have all earned one."

I found a similar line (with few outliers) in my social circle. Students and recent graduates supported remain while those who work or at least have some life experience tended toward leave. I dont try to infer anything from that EU wise though. But as with you age, ethnicity and gender didnt seem to make a difference.

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UK.gov IT projects that are failing: Verify. Border control. 4G for blue-light services. We can go on

codejunky
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Re: £5.1 BILLION ?

@ Yet Another Anonymous coward

"How the Belgium do you spend £5.1bn on giving the police/fire/ambulance cell phones?"

Fleece the tax payer. When you can just demand more money regardless of poor performance little niggles like delivering the project on time or on budget become things of the past.

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As far as the gender pay gap in Britain goes, IBM could do much worse

codejunky
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Re: sample size, outliers, biases

@ LucreLout

"El Reg's own Tim Worstall did some very good stuff around this very issue"

I get the feeling Tim vanished because he didnt have a problem pointing out reality instead of the 'approved' view.

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HMRC told AGAIN to toughen up on VAT-dodging online traders

codejunky
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Re: How much tax did Vodafone manage to pay for last year?

@AC

"Doesn't the law of diminishing returns demand that HMRC start hassling the big players for their fare share of tax"

They did. Then they found that the big players were paying their fair share (all that was legally due). If we need more tax money it must come from the middle class. When the middle class realise that they will start asking why we pay so much tax and get so little for it.

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codejunky
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Re: Amazon

@ Yet Another Anonymous coward

"That's why nobody buys sd cards or (non-amazon brand) batteries on Amazon anymore"

Really? I do (sd cards) and have yet to have a problem but I will keep an eye out in case anything changes.

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codejunky
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Hmm

"It is estimated that the UK is missing out on between £1bn and £1.5bn a year from online VAT fraud,"

So the claim. And once implemented I wonder what the actual figure will be if anything. kinda like all those fraudsters with offshore investments turning out to be doing nothing wrong, instead to actually follow the laws of the various countries.

Will see.

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UK taxman warned it's running out of time to deliver working customs IT system by Brexit

codejunky
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Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

@ werdsmith

"A second vote would be based on the deal and actually knowing what the consequences are."

Aka a continuation of propaganda to claim all doom if we dare leave, misrepresentation of reality to claim good is bad and bad is good, and of course the fact that the EU is not known for competence at deals even though hard brexit is economically a better position than being in changes the focus for a 'good deal' when leaving is a good deal!

"Much more democratic and relevant than the first vote."

That would be the vote where the gov outright threatened the population to vote its way or else it will impose an extreme punishment budget on us? The democratic ideal where the treasury and BoE argued that while brexit will deliver their aim since 2008 it is a bad thing? The one where the administers of the vote couldnt remain impartial because they had to increase the pressure on the population not to vote leave? And you think leavers should be accepting of an unnecessary round 2 of a rigged vote?

"with regard to governments and general elections, yes we do have 5-yearly opportunities to change."

So we implement the change, then after that you can vote in elections for a party who will rejoin the EU if you want.

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codejunky
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Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

@ Alt C

"to qoute your fav man Mr Ferage - a vote that close for reman would mean its unfinished business so he would have carried on as normal - so why is that OK for your lot but because you won we have to shut up?"

Normal for UKIP- offer change at the next election.

Difference to the rabid remain- waaaa, we didnt lose if we rewrite the rules! Waaa, we should ignore the vote! Waa, people are stupid! Waa, I dont wanna lose play again! Waa, my shirt is wet from tears. Waaa.

It isnt about rabid remainers shutting up, but their demands to invalidate democracy because it voted the 'wrong' way, demand a rerun or whatever other temper tantrum stop brexit crap is as embarrassing as having our own child screaming and crying in the floor in public.

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codejunky
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Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

@AC

"No need to have any future general elections then right? After all we decided on the government once, who needs to do it again?"

That seems to be the attitude for remainers except they claim a victory for a different referendum. Then when people have a meaningful vote democracy must be stopped because its the 'wrong' choice. It hasnt even been implemented yet and the knickers are in a twist.

@Terry Barnes

Are you claiming the Tories were never elected when Cameron was in charge? Or do you think the people can be ignored to which you can be proud you are being. Since the two main parties are brexit and the pro-EU parties lost massively in the last election it would seem you remain desirers need to elect a gov representing your views.

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codejunky
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Re: why can't it be put to the vote?

@ werdsmith

"It's ridiculous that the vote was on some nebulous idea without anybody knowing what's really involved, and there will be no vote when we have hard facts about what the situation will be."

Regardless of the outcome.

"The leavers don't want to because they are so democratic....."

As proven by 20+ years in the EU with no vote because people would vote leave. Finally we did vote. And you now want a brexit2 vote because you are sure they would change their mind. And if they dont I wonder what excuse for another vote. Because one is not enough (unless its the 'right' answer).

"The non-voters who didn't bother because they assumed that the country isn't stupid enough to vote for economic ruin will definitely mobilise if there is a brexit2 vote."

Waa waa people who didnt vote would have voted my way so my side claims those who did not vote! Anything else would be democratic. Is that why remain propaganda has continued long after the result? While leave sat back and said 'see, I told ya'.

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