Re: @ Loyal Commenter
@ Yes Me
"1. Sovereignty. EU members keep their sovereignty"
Erm, no. Otherwise we can ditch the EU regulations for the domestic market and organise our own trade outside the EU. Amusingly the remain argument that members keep their sovereignty runs opposite to the remain argument that the EU stops govs from doing extreme things.
"1a. Since Brexit would make both N.Ireland and Scotland much more likely to leave the UK within a few years, the sovereignty argument rings pretty hollow anyway."
Actually no it doesnt, it actually enhances the argument to claim that. Scotland is unlikely to leave the UK, they didnt even want to when they had a referendum but now there isnt much will for it. Where the idea NI want to leave the UK came from I have no idea. If they did I am not particularly for or against it.
"2. Economics. Every serious analysis shows that Brexit will be disastrous for the UK economy"
That works well as long as you ignore fact. Once we introduce fact such ideas fall hard. The industry begging to remain you speak of is the CBI, so thats big business covered and most of the economy ignored. So lets start with what has happened, the facts. We vote leave, the currency fell a bit (from being overvalued) and suddenly the economy improved. This expectation was backed by Osborne and Carney (presented as bad but their aims since 2008-present), King and the outcome being the desired outcome to improve our economy. If we actually leave the EU the protectionism of the EU no longer applies, which reduces import costs. The particular import cost of interest being food as it affects the entire country rich or poor and is a stimulus, effectively a wage rise.
"3. Immigration won't stop after Brexit: when we need workers, they will come. Most people don't come here except to work, anyway."
And at no point did I expect it would stop. However instead of letting anyone from the 'approved' countries wander in we can apply a better system. I say this having friends world wide who basically had to come here as students or wives of immigrants here as students or are pretty much excluded from coming here. The exception being the EU friends who have no problem wandering over and finding employment. Why must it be so difficult for those outside the EU and so easy for those within?
"4. Trade. See point 2. If we lose all our free trade agreements overnight as well as losing free access to the EU market, our trade in both goods and services will not stop dead"
Good news for you, that shouldnt happen anyway. The gov should be organising trade agreements with the queue already to be signed the minute we leave. But trade agreements are not the be all end all, removing the protectionism of the EU will also solve the problem too. The amusing idea that the UK will become impoverished assumes something drastic like Corbyn taking power.
Now lets think through the alternative- the EU. There is no denying without serious delusion that the EU is in multiple crises and mostly self inflicted. The Euro which should have collapsed as eurosceptics predicted was instead continued to the serious damage of economies and the serious impoverishment (your choice of words) of Greece. The damage being so bad that their heath service stopped and relied on the generosity of private drug companies. They are a global threat to financial stability and you want to remain chained to that?
They have a migration crisis thanks to a huge mistake by Merkel which the EU for some reason accepted and adopted. The EU now considering prison camp style accommodation for asylum seekers and migrants while desperately paying migrants to go away.
And the political crisis where the EU is becoming as popular as a burning bag of excrement on the porch. The Greeks failed attempt to rebel as the country was purchased by the EU, Italy voting for a anti-EU and anti-Euro parties to run the country (the EU fearing a rerun as they would gain further majority) and of course the French voting for a president to reform the EU and second place to the national front. The French president admitting the French would possibly vote out if given a choice. And those are but a few.