* Posts by DougS

12863 posts • joined 12 Feb 2011

From dank memes to Krispy Kremes: British uni eggheads claim viral lol pics make kids fat

DougS Silver badge

Memes are biased towards obesity?

So people's minds are changed by them? I guess the solution is fewer memes about skipping the gym to drink wine, and more about hobbling up stairs after leg day?

Microsoft points to a golden future where you can make Windows 10 your own

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Does it actually work in Windows 10, unlike the terrible implementation in Windows 7? You will more than double the size of a Windows 7 install these days due to all the patches that are added, and NOT cleaned up by the system tools that claim to do so.

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I'm sure they've been fielding complaints by the millions from people who want to remove that! :/

I'd like to be able to remove all the data slurping stuff - unless they make Windows 10 free they shouldn't try to double dip by also slurping your data.

I'd also like to be able to properly clean up after patching. Why does the OS grow and grow in size from giving you the ability to roll back? There should be some way to 'commit' OS changes so that after you feel comfortable that the latest patches haven't broken something you can eliminate the ability to roll back and save some space.

Apple to dump Intel CPUs from Macs for Arm – yup, the rumor that just won't die is back

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"select x86_64 and arm64"

Anyone who sells an application without properly testing it on new platform deserves all the scorn heaped upon them by unhappy users. It might be bug free if you are lucky (and if Apple's ports of the libraries your application uses are perfect and don't introduce new architecture specific issues) but only someone for whom software development is a hobby would ever suggest such a thing as a solution.

DougS Silver badge

You're ignoring Windows

A fairly decent share of Macs are used to run Windows, at least occasionally. So there will absolutely need to be dynamic translation to handle that. And while new Mac applications can use fat binaries, not everyone has the luxury of having 100% of their applications still being supported by the vendor. There HAS to be emulation to handle that case. Not sure why there is argument over this - dynamic translation is a solved problem, and Apple has already done it twice. Doing it again in 2020 is not a difficult task at all.

Fortunately going from an architecture with fewer registers to one with more registers a lot easier/faster to emulate than the other way around. Even better, Microsoft is supposedly supporting ARM Windows that does its own translation from x64 to ARM64, if so (i.e. if they still are in 2020, which isn't a sure thing given Microsoft's spotty history in supporting non-x86 Windows) then it shouldn't be too much of a problem since Apple's translation only needs to worry about MacOS.

Chinese biz baron wants to shove his artificial moon where the sun doesn't shine – literally

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Re: Eight times brighter than the Moon?

Some Random Guy (tm) on slashdot did some calculations, and he figured it would take a perfect mirror (100% reflective) 2500 m^2 to equal the full moon over an 800 km^2 area. Assuming his calculations were correct, or close to it, if you want to be eight times as bright and account for the mirror being less than perfect, you're talking more like 25000 m^2.

Since the mirror would need to track to maintain the spot during the night, that's a LOT of mass to be moved (even assuming you using some sort of fabric with flimsy support structure behind it) given the size required. Maybe you can get the rotation of the satellite just right so it tracks as desired, but geosynchronous orbits are not stable, they need station keeping to maintain. Every time you fire the thrusters to tweak your orbit, you would destabilize the rotation - and if you can't find that 'just right' rotation you'll be using thrusters to move the mirror, meaning the satellite would have a pretty short life before it runs out of fuel.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Eight times brighter than the Moon?

Yes, the Moon reflects most of the light away, and has a poor albedo, but it is many orders of magnitude larger than this satellite will be.

I don't buy the 8 times brighter just because an article says so. I want to see the math. I found something that says the sun is 400,000 brighter than the moon. So if you assume this is eight times brighter than the moon then it must be 1/50,000th as bright as the sun. So you'd have to reflect light equal to 1/50,000th of the sun onto this city sized area. I don't know how to calculate the size of the mirror that would require, but that's a huge damn mirror. It isn't going to be some "simple" 50 meter x 50 meter unfolding mirror like the solar panels on a communications satellite.

Besides, I'm not sure 8 times brighter is going to eliminate the need for streetlights. They are a hell of a lot brighter than 8 times as bright as the full moon...

DougS Silver badge

Eight times brighter than the Moon?

Over its far smaller apparent size compared to the Moon, I assume? I don't see how this could possibly light things up enough that you wouldn't want street lights. It isn't as if street lights turn off when there's a full Moon, and there's no way this could come anywhere near the amount of light you get from a full Moon.

Are we sure this isn't Elon Musk in disguise? It sounds like one of his harebrained ideas.

WD shoots out 96-layer embedded flash chips

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Minor nit, multilayer NAND uses processes in the 30-40 nm range, not 7nm. Not sure about the cost per finished wafer, you don't need multipatterning which saves some effort, but there are far more total process steps because there are several per layer.

But yes, any time you can shrink and get more devices per wafer you save money and hopefully (eventually) the savings are passed on to us in the form of more GB per dollar/pound/euro.

SCISYS sidesteps Brexit: Proposes Irish listing to keep EU space work rolling in

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What if they require some/all the work to be performed in the EU?

IT outsourcing contracts by federal/state governments in the US almost always require all the work to be done within the US. They may not care if a company with its HQ in Europe like Atos gets the contract, but the people actually performing that work have to be inside the US. Most DoD contracts require the company to be US based AND all the work to be done inside the US.

If the EU requires the same thing for say Galileo, then technically moving your HQ inside the EU by renting a tiny office in Ireland while the bulk of your company stays in the UK and relisting on a different exchange won't help.

Well slap my ass and call me Judy, Microsoft's Surface Pro 6 is just as hard to fix as the old one

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Re: 128GB?

I knew you could get iPhones with 512GB, I just wasn't sure if you could get Surface Pro 6 with more than 128GB. Turns out it can be ordered with up to 1 TB as I saw in a different article. Soldered to the board, to encourage you to get more while you can I guess.

DougS Silver badge


I assume there are higher storage versions available? It would be funny if you could buy an iPhone or Galaxy Note with more storage.

Chrome 70 flips switch on Progressive Web Apps in Windows 10 – with janky results

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Re: Fixing a problem that no longer exists?

I kept getting asked by some sites on EVERY visit, so no it isn't a block once and you never have to again. The number of sites where I might possibly want such a notification (i.e. maybe at El Reg if someone responds to my comment) are dwarfed by the useless notifications sites will want to send (i.e. an evil El Reg could send a notification every time they post a new article)

I disable notifications for most apps on my phone, because of the level of nonsense they want to notify me about - up to and including the most annoying one possible - "you haven't used xxx in a while, we miss you". If I haven't used an app or visited a web site in a while, that's my choice, I don't need or want to get notifications so they can whine about my absence!

So yes, building on the foundation of something that's first use people are exposed to is something so highly annoying and mostly useless will result in people permanently disabling the source of the annoyance. Which will be a problem for PWA. Just like how early Javascript in pages was so slow and problematic a lot of people browsed with Javascript disabled for years - and some still use tools like Noscript to selectively control it.

And I still didn't hear anyone come up with a single reason why PWAs are better than current web apps using Javascript...and I notice you didn't, either.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Fixing a problem that no longer exists?

Ah, service workers. Glad to know that, as I've already disabled those because I was sick of seeing all those stupid requests asking if a page could send me notifications.

PWA is off to a pretty bad start if it is building that on crappy foundation, because everyone with a clue will have already disabled what it needs to function.

DougS Silver badge

Fixing a problem that no longer exists?

Web apps were mostly hated the first time around because they used Javascript, and between slow CPUs in mobile devices, and crappy software engines everywhere, they were sluggish and crash/hang prone.

Fast forward to 2018, and now mobile CPUs are much faster - pretty much on par with desktop CPUs in the case of the A12 - and Javascript engines in browsers are far more efficient and stable.

So why do we want to change to a totally new way to implement web apps, where we will have to make and then correct all the same security mistakes we make time and again every time the wheel is re-invented? Can anyone tell me why I should prefer PWAs over a Javascript web app?

Seems like it is one more thing I need to disable for a few years until they work out the kinks, and re-enable if/when it actually becomes a thing. After all, Google is behind it, and they axe about half the things they do a few years down the road. There's no reason to believe PWAs will survive.

Stroppy Google runs rings round Brussels with Android remedy

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Re: Unbundling the app store would have been the right solution

I assume Samsung's app store is in addition to what is on the Google Play store, rather than having all the same apps like Facebook, etc.? If so they couldn't really drop Google because people would go from having an app store with millions of apps to one with thousands - and none of them what most people actually want.

DougS Silver badge

Unbundling the app store would have been the right solution

Then it would be feasible for say Samsung to create their own Android flavor. Now maybe people might not want it, but there are plenty of vendors making phones so even if Samsung only sold Samdroid phones you'd have plenty of options that would still sell traditional Android with all the Googly bits. Or you could buy a Samdroid and install generic Android on it.

LuminosityLink spyware mastermind gets 30 months in the clink, forfeits $725k in Bitcoin

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The right to bear arms is guaranteed in the constitution, the right to install remote access software is not.

Please see my post below for all the things the software is doing. Still believe he's a victim?

DougS Silver badge

Re: "not the shooter"

If he's selling it in hacker forums, it is pretty obvious the market for which it is intended.

Here are the things it did that no legitimate remote access software would do:

1) installs without notification

2) records keys pressed without notification

3) surveillance using camera & microphone without notification

4) view and download files without notification

5) access names and passwords for websites without...you get the picture

6) mine virtual currencies

7) launch DDoS attacks against other computers

8) prevent anti-malware software from detecting or removing it

Sure, Europe. Here's our Android suite without Search, Chrome apps. Now pay the Google tax

DougS Silver badge

Re: Just another attempt

Apple is simply not allowing that Russian chat app on their App Store. There is nothing stopping the authors from offering it on the Google Play Store for Android.

Apple doesn't have a dominant share in app stores, and no country has laws against a company being able to restrict what it offers in their own store. If I want to sell my widget on Amazon, and contact them but they say "no thank you, we already have widgets and don't need another" I can't go whining to the FTC or EU competition authority because Amazon doesn't have a dominant share in online stores - let alone stores in general when you include both online and brick-and-mortar. Though I'm sure that's their ultimate goal - if they ever achieve it then they will experience problems like those Google is enduring.

DougS Silver badge

You're getting a device with no Chrome but has another browser installed. Most will not install Chrome if they already have a working browser.

Search is a different matter, "googling" is basically a verb meaning "to search on the internet" so more people would install Google search when it was missing. Not sure how many though, if Microsoft paid HTC (for example) to install Bing as an app called "Search" people might just click that and not notice/care it wasn't Google. If the app was called "Bing" they probably wouldn't know what it was, and would be more likely to install Google's search. Yes, I really do think Microsoft's Bing branding is that bad...

Of course, this is all academic if Google charges more for the search-free version of Android than Microsoft would be willing to pay to install Bing.

DougS Silver badge

Re: MS next... again

Whether they can do that at all would depend on what they consider a "market". Are desktop PCs/laptops a market unto themselves, or are they lumped in with tablets and smartphones as part of a larger market.

Hint: how much time does the average person spend accessing the internet, apps, games etc. on a smartphone versus on a laptop/desktop PC in 2018?

I think the market has taken care of Microsoft's dominance. For instance, even if they only allowed Edge as a browser on Windows - you couldn't even install Chrome/Firefox - they couldn't use that to influence web standards because there are more Android & iOS devices in active use on the internet than there are Windows PCs.

DougS Silver badge

Which would be interesting, as we'd have some idea of how much value Google assigns to that slurping over the lifetime of a device.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Or the fourth option...

First Apple would have to achieve a dominant share in some sort of market. Having a dominant share in "browser engines for the iPhone" or similar is not something regulators can do anything about.

The reason they are taking this action against Google is because they have dominant positions in several markets - search, advertising, and mobile OS and leverage them against each other to reinforce their market positions. Apple has a mobile market share somewhere in the teens, a mobile app store market share of similar size, an even smaller market share for browsers, and 0% market share for search and for advertising. They don't have a dominant share in anything.

The new Huawei is going upmarket, but the old Huawei still threatens

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Re: Not possible

I have a giant Zalman heatsink with a variable speed fan set at its lowest speed (I think it is something like 600 rpm) which along with a 120mm case fan in my mini-ITX at a similar minimum speed and fanless power supply does fine to keep my 65W Skylake basically silent. Oh, I can hear it if I get within a foot, but close enough. In the very rare cases when I might need it to spin up a few cores to crunch something the fans would get a bit louder, so I have headroom that a fanless set up does not.

DougS Silver badge

Not possible

All the graphene can do is spread the heat around more evenly, it can't make it go away. That's what a fan is for.

Besides, while the coloration in their slide was adjusted to show large differences, we are only talking 4C in difference from the hottest to coolest areas (assuming green is 37-38C, yellow is 39-40C and red is 41-42C) so it isn't making that much difference. Do you think you'd really notice if one part of your phone was 4C hotter than another? If you did, would you care?

UK.gov to press ahead with online smut checks (but expects £10m in legals in year 1)

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How is this supposed to work?

Are they going to install a Great Firewall to block all non-complying foreign sites? Are they going to try to sue them? That might work against the ones that charge, since they'd be collecting revenue in the UK that could be attached by the government. But who the hell pays for porn? Certainly not those under 18 who'd have to use their parents' credit card!

Huawei's Watch GT snubs Google for homegrown OS

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Re: 2-week battery life

Seems to me it would be easier to remember to charge something nightly than to remember to charge it every 10 to 14 days. You'd get in the habit of taking it off and charging it each night. Most people are already doing that with their phone, so it is just another thing to hook up before you go to bed.

You'd lose the ability for sleep monitoring though, if you care about that sort of thing.

Penta-gone! Personal records of 30,000 US Dept of Defense workers swiped by miscreants

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That's a problem too, but department heads going to/from industry is mainly a problem of bad policy that doesn't align with what voters want, versus government contractors being problem of increasing government spending. If you want to reduce government payroll, by definition that means cutting services (politically unpopular and almost never happens) or paying someone else to do what the government used to. Paying government contractors to do what the government used to or could do almost always ends up costing more, because of the cut of profit they slice off the top.

A guy I went to MBA school with does this, he's got a team of contractors working on DoD projects and he collects $10-$20 per hour off each one. Makes over a million dollars a year basically doing fuck all at this point. Nice work if you can get it, but a perfect illustration of why we spend so much money and get so little in return.

DougS Silver badge

There are a shit ton of contractors in the DC area that do business exclusively with the DoD, or exclusively with the federal government. I can easily believe a company could lose 30,000 customer records, the entirety of their customer base, and have every single one of them work for the DoD.

Usually they are started up by someone who used to work for the government, and "just happen" to leave at the right time to set up a company that within a few months of being incorporated has millions in government contracts flowing in. This the real DC "swamp", not whatever Trump thinks the swamp is.

Web browsers sharpen knives for TLS 1.0, 1.1, tell protocols to dig their own graves for 2019

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This would be easy to fix

By default, browsers should skip warnings about "insecure" TLS/SSL (or requiring https at all) for anything which resolves to a private network 10/8 or 192.168/16 address.

Old devices that can't be updated will be around for years, people shouldn't have to keep around an outdated browser just to access them.

RIP Paul Allen: Microsoft cofounder billionaire dies at 65 after facing third bout with cancer

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Re: Say what you will

To be fair, while Allen started philanthropy pretty quickly it took Gates a while to come around. He was a billionaire longer than Zuck has been before he did - though granted when he did it he went ALL in. Hopefully Zuck & Bezos will follow in his footsteps. Ellison is just a cretin, and I wouldn't be surprised if he builds a tomb that puts the Taj Mahal to shame as his way of taking it all with him.

Hunt for Red Bugtober: US military's weapon systems riddled with security holes – auditors

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Re: Learn to Stop Worrying and Love Network-enabled Operations

You don't think the F35s were designed to win a war, do you? They were designed to extract money from American taxpayers and put it in the pockets of defense contractors.

If they were designing planes to win a war they'd never build another manned fighter, because they will all be obsolete at least a decade before the last F35 is scheduled to roll off the assembly line.

Icahn to Dell investors: You can't touch this DVMT offer

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Yes, he's basically giving them a choice. Up the payout to the $144 he claims it is worth, or shut him up by paying him on the side (known as "greenmail") to go away - usually done via a private purchase of his shares at a higher than market price.

The average investor will only see a gain if Dell is forced to go to $144. If Icahn capitulates, the little guy won't see a dime. Icahn wins either way, so he doesn't care whether the little guy wins or not.

GCHQ asks tech firms to pretty please make IoT devices secure

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Black Helicopters

Do they really want secure devices?

I think spy agencies give lip service to this - mostly because of government or government contractors using insecure devices so they want them to be able to become secure. In reality they'd be happy if everyone has an Alexa or Google Home they can hack into and easily listen in on what people are talking about, that businesses all have vulnerable Chinese CCTV cameras they can hack into and watch what's going on.

I think the spy agencies all watch modern movies and TV shows that give the impression that government departments all have an uber hacker at their disposal who can track suspects by hacking into pretty much any electronic device in 30 seconds while Jack Bauer or M stands over their shoulders impatiently waiting for the results so they know their next move. They're jealous!

AI's next battlefield is literally the battlefield: In 20 years, bots will fight our wars – Army boffin

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Re: Humans will always have the most important battlefield role

Why do you think perfect identification of enemy combatants vs civilians would cause MORE civilians to be killed? If they want to kill a lot of civilians now that's easy - save the money on the GPS guided bombs and just drop planeloads of WW II style ordnance at random in heavily populated areas.

So it is pretty obvious they are trying not to kill civilians now, though they still do - sometimes through mistakes in identification and sometimes because the bombs miss their targets or the targets aren't set properly.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Humans will always have the most important battlefield role

While that may be true, it was the war we started - for reasons that were since proven to be lies - that toppled the stable government and enabled the insurgents to get a foothold. Now maybe just as many people would have died under Saddam, as he wasn't exactly a kind and caring ruler, but the US and its allies have to shoulder a good share of the blame for those killed by insurgents.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Humans will always have the most important battlefield role

One need only look at the recent conflicts with Iraq for examples. The US/coalition forces used strategic bombing at first to take out their radar, air power, etc. both times. They didn't go out of their way to bomb people - though obviously some of those who were in the radar stations, airbases etc. became casualties.

After that they advanced and took on the army (which was a lot bigger in the first war) to eliminate the ability of Saddam's government to fight back. The first time around after that was accomplished they just left, since Iraq was no longer a threat to neighboring countries. The second time around idiot neocons were in charge of the planning, and they thought they could set up a puppet "democracy" and the population would accept that. That's when it became an insurgency / asymmetric war.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Humans will always have the most important battlefield role

I expect the next insurgency war - a la Afghanistan - to show how these systems can be gamed into killing civilians. Losing both hearts and minds and political support in the home country. In that context, pervasive small recon drones allowing easy identification of rebels would be more productive, IMHO.

Killing civilians will always be a problem, even if perfect 100% identification of them was possible and none were actually killed. Because the insurgents generally control at least some of the news coming out of the combat zone, so they can make up stories about civilians being killed. Or, failing that, kill civilians themselves and blame the opposition.

DougS Silver badge

Re: Humans will always have the most important battlefield role

Killing people isn't the goal of war, at least other than ethnic cleansing type wars. Unfortunately, sometimes it is the only (or at least easiest) way to accomplish the actual goal.

Killing people is the goal of the low tech side in an asymmetric war, but that's because the high tech side generally has a limited appetite for casualties, so they don't need to kill that many.

What I fear will happen with battlefield robots is that it will embolden advanced militaries like the US to fight more wars, since they won't have to deal with the bad news of casualties back home that make the public pull back. Just endless bills for all the tech, but that's fine we'll just borrow more money to pass onto the defense contractors, made possible via legalized bribes to politicians and generals.

Samsung’s flexible phone: Expect an expensive, half-bendy clamshell

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Re: Can't imagine this will last long

Couldn't you say the same thing about laptop designs that need to carry video signals and usually audio because the speakers are on the display half?

Take a look at the stout hinges on a typical laptop. Who will buy a phone using those? They can't do what laptops do, they need to very tiny hinge that's also super strong/durable.

They'd actually be better off they can make the screen the only thing that folds, with nothing behind it. We know displays can do that, the problem is they will be very easy to damage in the unfolded state. Not to mention that they are see thru, so they'll need at least minimal backing to prevent that (or find a way to sell it as a "feature")

DougS Silver badge

Sand getting stuck and scratching the screen

All they need is a 0.1mm high border around the display to avoid having it physically touch the display on the other side, which will also avoid letting fine grit get caught. Something bigger like a grain of beach sand could get in there I suppose, but that's on you for letting something that obvious get stuck in there...

I think longevity will be a huge problem. This is the sort of thing that they can simulate with a robot that folds/unfolds the screen thousands of times and when they market it say "we have tested it with 50,000 folds/unfolds, equivalent to you doing this 30x a day for five years" but that won't matter. Robots will fold and unfold it in exactly the same way, while people will add a little twisting force every time. Plus the device will get squeezed into pockets, dropped, sat on, etc. which will further stress the folding parts.

I'd stay well away from the first gen products, I predict the issues/complaints of early adopters will really ramp up around six months after it goes on sale.

DougS Silver badge

I still think a bifold device will be a market failure

People want and are used to a 16:9 / 2:1 type form factor, because videos are 16:9 and people spend a LOT of time watching video on their phones. A device that's 2:1 when unfolded folds into a square. Since you would obviously want something that unfolds LARGER than what you have today (otherwise why pay more for it?) then you'll end up with a square in your pocket that's significantly wider - and thicker - than your current phone.

It will sell at first because of the "cool" / "early adopter" factor, but once people have them they will not like them, and sales will quickly crater.

And this leaves out longer term reliability issues that will likely dog first generation folding phones. If engineers think having a machine fold / unfold it 10,000 times over a weekend will approximate real world longevity issues, they are in for a surprise.

In Windows 10 Update land, nobody can hear you scream

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I guess I got lucky

I went to upgrade my iPhone from 11.4.1 to 12.x since they'd released a point update to fix the inevitable wrinkles all .0 releases are prone to. I always take a full backup in iTunes before doing so, but I couldn't install the latest iTunes without upgrading Windows 10 on my laptop's rarely used Windows partition. After several hours of downloading and installing (how can installation take so long even when I have an SSD?) it finally completed, and I didn't suffer from any of the Windows update issues.

I did this on Friday evening, I guess I got lucky with the timing - after the fall release issue but before they borked the audio on HP laptops like the one I did this on!

Still would have preferred if Microsoft & Intel hadn't got together to prevent installing Windows 7 on Kaby Lake CPUs. Been a few years since I tried running iTunes under VMware, last time the connecting/disconnecting of USB it does with an attached iPhone caused too many problems. Maybe they've got it sorted and the only thing I use a native Windows partition for can be eliminated!

Yale Weds: Just some system maintenance, nothing to worry about. Yale Thurs: Nobody's smart alarm app works

DougS Silver badge

Re: Not Surprised

I'm sure the reply will be "there are batteries in them, duh" but batteries go flat eventually. I wonder if the software is able to detect that so you will know to replace the battery before you find out the hard way trying to get into your house during a power outage?

I'll bet most of them recommend replacing the battery on a schedule to avoid that, as if everyone will remember. The only way most people remember to replace batteries in smoke detectors is in the US every time daylight savings time changes the news will remind people they should change the batteries in their smoke detectors. Six months is a little quick, but better too often than not often enough. I wonder if the people who want to eliminate daylight savings time have included the potential deaths from people with flat batteries in their smoke detectors as a cost of that?

DougS Silver badge

Re: Not Surprised

Yes, my car's fob has a real key too. Plus it connects directly with the car, it doesn't depend on the cloud.

But if you care about your car's security, you best not look too closely into how easy it is to defeat such systems. At least when someone physically breaks into the car it leaves evidence making insurance claims a bit easier.

That 'Surface will die in 2019' prediction is still a goer, says soothsayer

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Re: So the logic is

I've seen 2-3 Surfaces in use

Yes, but have you ever seen anyone using it as a tablet? I NEVER have, while i have seen them used as a laptop, which is what it really is - a laptop with a really terrible keyboard.

You say you've never seen an iPad Pro, but how do you know? You can barely tell them apart unless it is the larger model...

DougS Silver badge

Re: So the logic is

Where do you meet these people?

Maybe he lives in Redmond?

DougS Silver badge

Re: Microsoft should stay with Surface.

Ideally, this would be Microsoft but they simply committed market suicide there. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to be competitive in the high-end mobile market on an anti-privacy platform like Android.

If Microsoft used AOSP Android with their own services replacing Google's it could be done. Unfortunately, Microsoft has gone the data whoring route with Windows 10 under the new CEO, so you'd simply be trading one data grabber for another. Still, all else being equal if I had to have my data snarfed I'd rather have multiple companies getting some of it as opposed to one getting all of it.

DougS Silver badge

Re: So the logic is

I'm not sure if Surface makes enough revenue to pay for development/production/marketing costs or not, but it certainly isn't a goldmine for Microsoft. The big problem is that it takes market share away from their most important customers, the PC OEMs - and takes share at the most lucrative end, too!

If no PC OEM steps in to make something comparable, well, its their loss. This isn't remotely comparable to axing Windows Phone because Surface runs Windows 10, and that is going to stick around. They'd just stop making and selling the hardware themselves. Dropping Windows Phone meant that OEMs couldn't make compatible phones either, that's not true with the Surface.

What are Surface buyers going to do, switch to Apple? An iPad Pro is only a substitute for the five Surface owners who actually use it as a tablet. Sure, a Macbook can run Windows, but with the performance of the A12 it looks more and more likely that Apple will be leaving x86 behind on the Mac line before long.

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