* Posts by Stuart 22

880 posts • joined 16 Jun 2009


AGM X3: Swoon at this rugged interloper mobe then throw it on the floor to impress your mates

Stuart 22

Re: Did I miss the part about the A3?

Missing through my browser too. Methinks given the opportunity to review a £599 or £279 phone most of us would make the opposite choice to that we would make shelling out our own dosh. For most, a longer lasting battery so you can still actually use it is more value than being able to throw it 1.39m at a wall 'cos its gone flat again.

Oh and still have £320 to buy another one plus a burner phone inside a plastic bag for more challenging environments.

Fun fact: GPS uses 10 bits to store the week. That means it runs out... oh heck – April 6, 2019

Stuart 22

I'm impressed the whole system was built to maintain compatibility with HMRC's Basic PAYE software which also fails here on April 6th every year.

Take your pick: Linux on Windows 10 hardware, or Windows 10 on Linux hardware

Stuart 22

Been running Kubuntu & Xubuntu on ARM for 5 years. Well as croutons on ChomeOS (which neatly avoids the driver issue) - but hey they work brilliantly. Live swopping between the two on a tiny 2/16Gb laptop never ceases to amaze me.

But bring it on - the Linux apps i386/x64 only app developers need a bit of incentive to make their goodies architecture agnostic.

From Red Planet to deep into the red: Suicidal extrovert magnet Mars One finally implodes

Stuart 22

Oh ye of little faith

Bung Elon a few quid and he'll have the cargo ships landing in perfect formation and a solar weed farm ready to relax the incoming wannabee celebs.

The only flaw I can see is when channel 4 decides to cancel the fifth series 'cos a Pluto drive-by is so much cooler. Or would that lead to a Martian Scraphyard Challenge as we watch them attempt to build a return rocket home from bits of Beagle 2 and other assorted wreckage.

Defaulting to legacy Internet Explorer just to keep that one, weird app working? Knock it off

Stuart 22

Backwards compatability ....

Quick check: can it correctly render http://www.registry.hm/?

My latest version of Vivaldi can't!

Get in the bin: Let's Encrypt gives admins until February 13 to switch off TLS-SNI-01

Stuart 22

Re: Got the email, fixed it

No email which is good news but obviously I shouldn't assume I'm in the clear.

I presume I can wait till February 13th and carefully monitor the renewals thereafter (I have a nice little script for that). If I get a failure I assume I still have 30 days to fix the problem (mine auto-renew 60 days into the 90 day validity).

Begone, Demon Internet: Vodafone to shutter old-school pioneer ISP

Stuart 22

Shite of Shites!

Wow - I had brains.demon.co.uk (don't joke) and when Cliff gave us webpages was one of the first to exploit it (1996?). As I couldn't think of anything original to put up - I thought I might use other Demonite's work.

Hence 'Site of Sites'. I'd forgotten all about until a google search found the way and WayBackMachine did the rest. Here's a frontpage near the end in 1998 before I was forced to decamp to BT to get broadband or was it ISDN?: https://web.archive.org/web/19990421141318/http://www.brains.demon.co.uk

Some 'webmasters' were a little sensitive about their baby pages. Nowt changes.

PS I've forgotten the the brains.* IP (senility) AFAIR it started 158.152 ... anyway of tracking it down?

SpaceX sends Iridium-8 into space while Musk flaunts his retro rocket

Stuart 22

Re: Star bangled banner

I'm sure POTUS would welcome us if we took 50% of the NASA budget. Alternatively and a little cheaper we could build him a wall covered in star spangled banners. Indeed I'm surprised the Chinese haven't made the offer already in return for removing the tariff wall.

Easier than trying to squeeze $5bn out of the Democrats - or even Mexico?

New Horizons probe reveals Ultima Thule is huge, spinning... chicken drumstick?

Stuart 22

Wot - no selfies!

Here's me looking at you babe ...

ICO poised to fine Leave campaign and Arron Banks’ insurance biz £135,000

Stuart 22

Re: ICO and the Leave campaign.

"Whereas the remainers don't even notice that they're getting fucked by the EU."

Except the EU is us - until March 29th. Then it belongs solely foreigners who can fuck us unhindered.

Well done Leave.eu for giving them control ... unless you think the Maybot of the Rovers can come back from 27-1 down. Well I suppose she could put Trump in own-goal and if only Jacob & Boris would stop taking out our defence ... we could possibly stop being the laughing stock of the universe.

Heart Internet stops beating, starts Monday with big portion of FAIL

Stuart 22

I moved to dedicated servers and VPSs many years ago with various suppliers who have a reputation for reliability but were not charging a premium for it.

Result - if I'd had more than one break a year on any server I'd been surprised. Most have uptimes in years. Usually a break is not a server but a router problem. Reload or replace it isn't difficult and downtime should be no more than an hour or two.

I can only recall once which was a disk crash so it was a rebuild for me. That was a day lost but my clients were running off a backup server in the time it takes to clear DNS caches.

Am I very lucky or Heart Internet very unlucky. But then its clear HI have a single point of failure. That's unforgiveable these days.

Softcat warns of Brexit cloud forming over UK tech, vows: If prices rise, we'll pass them on...

Stuart 22

Re: There's always an excuse to increase prices, but...

Change in tariffs is only one issue. Sterling exchange rate is very much another. I think we can all do a pretty accurate forecast the direction of travel if there should be no-deal/bad-deal.

Microsoft: Like the Borg, we want to absorb all the world's biz computers

Stuart 22


Partnering only with HP & Dell as their duopoly in crime with enforced purchase/repurchase every three years. Recipe for being gouged on hardware as well as software?

Next time the SysAdmin screws up (aka goes on holiday) senior management will have been brainwashed into this nice simple solution. This is straight from IBM's "never sacked" playbook. Do they get royalties?

Chromebooks gain faff-free access to Windows file shares via Samba

Stuart 22

"Use a Chrome book to access a Windows share? Why not just run Windows and be done with it?"

One of the reasons we are now a Linux shop was it was a lot easier to get Kubuntu working with Windows Shares than the new fangled (at that time) Vista. Has anything changed?

Yep, lack of Samba support, is a major limiting hole on my Chromebook so this is great news. Could end up with ChromeOS eating into the thin Linux client market as well as Windows.

But the TL:DR on the road answer is probably 'boot time'. Who needs it?

Voyager 1 left the planet 41 years ago – and SpaceX hopes to land on Earth this Saturday

Stuart 22

Re: Telstar

T'other one celebrating 56.15890410958 or so years since launch day. Or to put into user friendly terms almost 11.2317808219 Welsh Assembly terms.

Time to raise 56.826125 cl of that ---->

[Sorry, I spilt the rest]

Space station springs a leak while astronauts are asleep (but don't panic)

Stuart 22

Re: Reminds me...

Kapton Log: "Prepare to decouple Soyuz"

* Checks stock of WD-40 *

How hack on 10,000 WordPress sites was used to launch an epic malvertising campaign

Stuart 22

Re: Waiting for a response...

"And there's some more to add to the DNS block list. I need a full list so I can block all of them. Ad block software not needed, and it's not detectable since it's running on my own server."

I use pi-hole and it is sometimes detected - which isn't that difficult with a simple test. Most sensible sites realise that if I'm excluding ads then I'm hardly likely to click on one so there is no point in getting emotional about it.

As for the few others do they seriously expect me to turn it off and reconfigure my DHCP just to see their site? Dream on ...

Happy 10th birthday, Evernote: You have survived Google and Microsoft. For your next challenge...

Stuart 22

Re: Evernote Lament

"Did you not use NixNote?"

Yes. Two issues. It wasn't in the repositories and it broke with library issues on upgrades. This on probably the most popular *nix distro.

The coder did catch-up eventually but you can't run a business relying on that. If Evernote had taken it in-house we may have stayed. Dunno where the problem was with Evernote or the author but the costs to Evernote should have been minimal in order to hold on to even 4% of their business,

One way for Evernote to counter the Outlook/Onenote juggernaut on Windows is to make Windows a choice not a lock-in.

Stuart 22

Re: Farewell Evernote

"The problem, sorry, is Linux. 4% of the desktop market and distro fragmentation never helped to develop desktop applications on a large scale - if you want to make money."

Indeed, but probably represent a rather higher percentage of 'recommenders'. My point was by not extending it to Linux (unlike many other independent 'generic' office software producers) this would damage their home market. We are Linux users but we used to put it on a lot of Windows systems. No more.

Evernote must know that as a sensible business. It must suggest that there is an issue with design which means the cost is too expensive due to some design issues that prevents it becoming platform independent. That's a warning signal to all users in my view.

Stuart 22

Evernote Lament

Sadly we left them around two years ago. Only because they haven't and have no iintention of producing a Linux client. We tried running under Wine, but that broke on upgrades, we ran some third party clients and they did the same. And bottom line if you want it to become mission critical then supplier support is non-negotiable.

Its a shame and we used to recommend it to all our clients. We no longer do so there is some lost Windows business. Committing to any product nowadays that locks you into particular operating systems would seem short-sighted in my view.

My other worry was possibly the reason Evernote would not port was that its design was locked down too much to the OS making a too expensive exercise to bend it to the small but significant Linux market and may send warning signs to Windows & Mac users about future and legacy support.

We found good alternate cross-platform solutions - but using a combination of products. Evernote was a good unifying product which simplified stuff for the user.

So farewell and good luck - and if you now produce a Linux version its too late for us, and i guess, for the others who had to leave them.

Automated payment machines do NOT work the same all over the world – as I found out

Stuart 22

Re: Similar Experience

I may be out a limb here but I find the (usually redundant) attendent service in Spain a lifesaver.

Having picked up some random hire vehicle, having deciphered the correct sequence of pedal shifting to get it started and not yet panicking how to get the windscreen wipers on the front or back to wipe feverously or occasionally - then driving into a filling station with no idea which side, yet how to open the petrol filler - one can relax. Just push a 50 euro note to the attendent. They may not have a doctorate in hydro-carbon chemistry but they sure know how to get a nozzle into any petrol tank known to humanity.

Job done. Who needs technology?

Dixons Carphone 'fesses to mega-breach: Probes 'attempt to compromise' 5.9m payment cards

Stuart 22

Re: A fairly basic question...

"Why do all these businesses store credit card details?"

These are very high numbers for people who elect to have their cards saved when making an online burchase from DSG. Looks more like DSG have logged every purchase.

Given I've bought stuff in-shop and online but not stored - have my details been leaked or not? I await some correspondence from DSG with interest.

Nominet throws out US corp's attempt to seize Brit domain names

Stuart 22

All losers here ...

This is silly. THF may have had a case as the association was so strong. But Forte Lubricants - no chance. They may have had a better chance against MarkMonitor (fortelubricants.co.uk & com).

It should have been where the haggling between the two end up. A domain squatter (yes, they shouldn't exist) but they do want to sell and ITW wants to buy. Clearly £20k is rather heavy for that type of domain now THF is out of the way. a decent broker should have found an acceptable rather lower price playing Successful off against MarkMonitor for the business. ITW appeared to be willing to pay something (=>£1,000) and the unsuccessful legal action must have cost rather more.

Not all losers. The lawyers who gave bad advice were probably the winners.

Hear that? Of course it's Indiegogo's deadline for a Vega+ whooshing by

Stuart 22

Beware Unicorns!

"Definitely vapourware then"

Does anybody [including the RCL Directors] really believe that if you can't deliver a production ready - or something close enough to confuse Indiegogo until the 15th - you can even hope to have anything to deliver to the UK on that date?

If it was a chance - the production kit would be coming off the lines in China or wherever now - with testing of the first batch, shipment to UK, customs and local delivery taking more than that time. In similar circumstances we have had a man take one off the production line jump on a plane with it as his 'personal computer' and show it to a customer the next day. Naughty but when your business depends on it - no question.

Unicornware I'm afraid. Debarrment of the Directors to follow?

Oracle nemesis MariaDB tries to lure enterprise folk with TX 3.0

Stuart 22


Great to see dBase hanging in there at a stable 37 in the DB-Engine rankings. I guess MariaDB hasn't figured a migration path yet. Is being able to read legacy data from floppies getting a bit hard these days ... ???

RIP Ashton-Tate.

Can't wait for Linux apps on Chrome OS? And you like stability? We'll see you in December, then

Stuart 22

Sorry to be thick ...

Why is performance so very different then running a Linux crouton?

My Kubuntu crouton [not the lightest desktop] delivers decent performance on my 5 year old 2/16Gb Samsung Chromebook. No probs with drivers either. Only problem is the Linux apps that assume an Intel environment. And WINE ain't going to be any good on many [most?] Chromebooks running ARM-based processors.

But it would be good to have the security of non-Developer mode and, hopefully, a neater way of firing it up.

Huawei P20: Snappish snaps, but for £200 less than Pro, it’s Notch bad

Stuart 22

Notch too much for me

I remember when £599 was a flagship price - or more. IMHO its getting silly to put a grand (or even half a grand) of very breakable plastic/glass in your pocket which will be junked in a couple of years anyway. A camera phone is useful when you unexpectantly see something photographical. It is no substitute for a proper camera and half a grand buys you one of those.

One which will last you a decade or more 'cos the technology doesn't change that fast. That it is worth investing in accessories (mainly lenses) to take more interesting pictures.

Which is why the priorities of phone manufacturers and me appear to be diverging. A phone is primarily a communication device. Concentrate on that - you know, batteries that last more than a day. Communication kept secure with security updates. Phones that are repairable. Phones that don't break.

Is that asking the for the moon ... ?

Firefox to feature sponsored content as of next week

Stuart 22

Re: The problem lies deeper

"Could you get away with telling a Firefox user to install Chrome to use your website? Possibly."

Well yes. My default and preferred browser is Vivaldi. But I have to Fire up Fox occasionally to complete transactions on a couple of websites.

Surprisingly the main two culprits are the internet-savvy Nominet & Zen.

NASA dusts off FORTRAN manual, revives 20-year-old data on Ganymede

Stuart 22

Re: Paper tape anyone?

"They referred to a paper where Turing works out thta gin is in fact the best medium for delay lines"

I think you are referring to his expense claim ...

Airbus plans beds in passenger plane cargo holds

Stuart 22

Re: Glossing a commercial turd

I'm just setting out to join tonight's Portsmouth to St Malo ferry. Takes around 12 hours. Four up in a windowless cabin for most of that time along with several hundred doing the same thing. We choose to do it. There is a market and that mock-up looks like luxury in comparison.

Go for it!

O2 wolfs down entire 4G spectrum as pals fiddle with their shiny 5G band

Stuart 22

Bully for O2 - and me?

Possibly good news for me. Around here (in inner London) O2 4G is non-existent which means my renewal options are limited to EE & Three - given Voda's current reputation.

Its not just O2 - most of the more attractive MVNOs piggy back O2 so I look forward to much more choice in 2019 - if they can rolll it out that fast.

UK watchdog finally gets search warrant for Cambridge Analytica's totally not empty offices

Stuart 22

Re: Given the time it's take to get the warrant...

... as a diversion from the drive dump.

I'm guessing the only way the ICO can pin this one is to go through CA's backup policy and see how reality matches up to what should be. And whether small discrepencies can underpin a court case [most likely not].

If CA has the backing of GCHQ's best spooky hackers - no chance. One part of the corporate state defeating another. But perhaps they are more honest and respectful of individual liberty than we cynics assume.

It's sit back and wait for a result time. But what will it be?

BBC Telly Tax heavies got pat on the head from snoopers' overseers

Stuart 22

"It's an offence to own a TV that is cable of picking up a TV signal with no licence. You could be using that TV to watch old DVDs, Bluray or VHS or just for at games consoles. As long as you have no internet and no TV aerial you can still own the TV without a licence."

In the shadow of Crystal Palace you got better TV reception without an aerial than with in the old analogue days. Sadly since we went digital you need an aerial but then that appears to overload our TVs. As for mobile reception - don't get me started ...

NRA gives FCC boss Ajit Pai a gun as reward for killing net neutrality. Yeah, an actual gun

Stuart 22

"Banning 5 million legal firearms is almost impossible."

There were millions of guns running loose around Europe after WW2 - many brought back as momentos from the war. My dad had one (or was it two). But they were squeezed out of the system quite quickly. Strangely communism didn't fill the void. Even more weirdly communist countries decided to eventually become non-communist - and succeeded without the use of arms.

Strict gun control can never completely stop bad people doing bad things. But it can reduce it from a major hazard to something very unusual - and something you don't need to prepare kids for. Here the Dunblane school shooting still resonates. The rules were tightened even more. Dunblane was 1996. That's 22 years ago. We may have a smaller population but not that smaller! The stats do point very strongly that reducing guns reduces risk. Its not rocket science.

Surely its worth a try? Or are the US population voting to remain prisoners of the NRA histrionics? On cold statistics a more threatening domestic terror organisation than those Potus gets excited about.

If rolling eyes could be heard across the pond - you'd be deafened.

Opportunity knocked? Rover survives Martian winter, may not survive budget cuts

Stuart 22

"I truly hope that Americans are ashamed of their President. This is just another reason to be so."

How dare you say that! Right now the greatest dealmaker ever is doing the deal of the century flogging a clapped out second hand Rover Discovery to his 'friend' Vlad for more dosh/votes than Barack could dream of. The p&p is the only sticking point.

But I await the crowing tweet with [almost] complete confidence.

Yes, Assange, we'll still nick you for skipping bail, rules court

Stuart 22

Re: Schrödinger's Embassy

Its not the Trump administration Julian has to worry about - it's Robert Meuller. Which would be a worry for Trump if Jules is willing to do a deal ...

Blackbird shot down, patent nuked by judge in Cloudflare legal battle

Stuart 22

And will Fastly get their money back?

Meltdown's Linux patches alone add big load to CPUs, and that's just one of four fixes

Stuart 22

Farmer's Lament

It does effect many people's computing is done in the cloud or within each organisation's server farm.

Those large scale operations will have been sized to operate at optimum utilisations - the highest achievable before unacceptable degradation sets in. Or just after for some providers! Otherwise they can be undercut by competitors.

To take an an analogy - the NHS is running its hospitals on a 96% bed occupancy than 'only' a 2% extra is pretty catastrophic. And processors as they saturate can really start flapping. How much depends on the nature of the load. Degradation may be steep, very steep or cliff edge. Of course AWS & Netflix can sort their situation by 'only' increasing the servers farms by adding 2 racks for every existing 100. That's still an awful lot of kit to be ordered, manufactured, installed and tested on top of planned growth.

Right now their contingency farms are probably taking the extra load so we may not notice. That's fine until the contingency is needed. Then it could be blackout time.

But then I'm assured here my PC will still be working fine. So it'll be a good test of my 'what happens when the cloud disappears' backup procedure. A lesson on dependency many of us never really learn.

TalkTalk to splash £1.5bn laying full fibre on 3 million doorsteps

Stuart 22

Re: Good Idea.. but..

Oh no. Please Mods just cut'n'paste the comments from the last TalkTalk fiasco report and close this so we can froth at the mouth down the pub instead. Saves time, bitter tastes better.

While you are about can you cut out the stock image on the frontpage with some vague connection to a tedious story and replace it with a loop of Thunderbirds 1 & 2 landing simultaneously on Cape Canaveral obviously filched from the discarded film stock bin at Shepperton and pretending its really real - a bit like TalkTalk's broadbind.

Just kiddin'. Elon you are magic. With knobs on.

Lauri Love judgment: Extradition would be 'oppressive' and breach forum bar

Stuart 22

Re: Sympathy

To follow your arguement - if imprisonment in the United States (or elsewhere) were to create a significant or probable risk of death [whether through suicide or physical cause] then extradition should be denied whatever the charge? That seems not unreasonable.

I do not have your experience so can you explain to me why the risks would be significantly higher than being committed to, say Liverpool Goal? TIA for your insights.

I have no question on the forum bar. The alleged offence was committed by a UK national on UK soil so clearly UK jurisdiction should take precedence. However, given that he has not been prosecuted here then in these globally connected times - the US surely has a call on Mr Love because of the alleged damage directed to and incurred on their soil but only if he hasn't had a fair trial here. No double jeapordy (or quadruple in this case). Only if their law in question is incompatible with the UK view of justice/civil rights should we deny it on that test. Is it?

Lloyds Bank bans Bitcoin purchases by credit card customers

Stuart 22

Re: "banks telling their customers what they can and cannot buy?

I'm guessing this is a problem in the Mastercard/Visa community that they cannot handle and hence some banks are dumping it on their customers.

I've had money back from CC payments traders that have gone bust. That's part of the comfortable guarantee you get on many payments that could go wrong and why many of us choose to use a CC rather than a Debit card without protection.

That leaves the CC company exposed when they are guaranteeing an unstable and wobbly set of cryptocurrency exchanges who are taking money for something that doesn't exist and whose belief it does exist and have value could disappear overnight. Its not like Ladbrokes or BetFred who are always the winners in the betting world because their 'book' is all too real. So ideally it should have been Mastercard/Visa refusing to deal with exchanges - in which case the customer is not offered the opportunity to buy rather than deny.

But I guess the exchanges will always find some CC company willing to give them an account. After all they will make money unless the bubble bursts. And if only 1% believe it won't - its enough.

Somehow I'm not uncomfortable with Lloyd's decision. Nor do I think their shareholders. Or anyone seeking to protect the taxpayer - as we are there not to profit but to pay up when the financial world drops a bollock.

Spectre shenanigans, Nork hackers upgrade, bad WD drives and more

Stuart 22

Re: Flash in the pan

We retired our last Flash dependent legacy application this week. Our (very) small contribution to making windows a little less unsafe.

More importantly being used to justify an extra beer all round.

Capita contract probed after thousands of clinical letters stuffed in a drawer somewhere

Stuart 22

Re: How? Why!!!

"If you outsource, you get what [their better paid lawyers decided] you asked for and pay for."

FTFY. And of course if the penalties are less than the cost of doing the job, why do it? If they really screw up then Chris Grayling may be their answer ... just sayin'

Forget cyber crims, it's time to start worrying about GPS jammers – UK.gov report

Stuart 22

A GPS free day?

If I could lower the level of this conversation - I'm a cyclist. These days ride leaders are invariably led by a GPS enabled Garmin. Brilliant until something happens, we are delayed, the battery goes flat, it falls out of its holder or (whisper) the code crashes.

I'm the the one with an OS in my back pocket so disaster is adverted. OK for now but an increasing number of leaders can't properly read a map. Because they never had to. This unknowing dependence on a fragile radio signal goes right up the life endangering scale.

Plan all you want. But imho the only way to safeguard the planet is for the US/Russia/EU to turn their systems off for a day so to concentrate minds so we should know the backup will really work. Signalled well in advance 'cos I'm not taking a flight that day ...

Just can't catch a break, can ya, Capita? Shares tumble 40% amid yet another profit warning

Stuart 22

Re: A company that will never learn

"There seems to be a conveyer belt of ‘senior management’ types that come along to put there stamp on the business and give some jobs to the boys along the way."

Absolutely! Of the six executive Directors only one is a woman (Company Secretary and I doubt she is on £440k/year). Can't even close their gender gap yet this socially irresponsible company can police how the disadvantaged lead their lives. I guess if they are missing out on half the talent the result is hardly a surprise.

They need a big PIP up the backside.

F-35 flight tests are being delayed by onboard software snafus

Stuart 22

Re: Blockchain will fix everything

"Surely everything could be fixed if they just used a blockchain"

Great idea. Drop a bomb here and it replicates everywhere ... frankly right now a standoff between a F35 and a Tiger Moth (so STOL its almost VTOL) might have an embarrasing result. For the heavy stuff there's always a Swordfish or two

Just don't let on to the Ruskies where Duxford is ... or we are doomed, I say, doomed.

NASA finds satellite, realises it has lost the software and kit that talk to it

Stuart 22

Re: Need help, NASA?

"Plus a Hayes modem and comms software."

Aha - I do have a couple of cable extenders but I'm not sure they will reach that far ...

Stuart 22

Re: When the Orange One is slashing anything

"So once again, Trump's fault? Don't you feel just a little bit silly?"

I said the financial problem was probably due to no budget for this project and the existing budgets being cut. The latter is the president's responsibility and that is indeed what he has done unless you consider this 'fake news':


Can we stick to facts rather than abuse?

Stuart 22

I suspect the real problem is not technical but is NASA has no budget for this long dead project. It isn't a part of the success objectives for 2018. When the Orange One is slashing anything that looks like a federal budget that doesn't personally service him - its going to take a tough/stupid manager to divert resources to this one.

I assume they will just post the challenge in the rest rooms and hope some team wants to moonlight for glory - good luck guys & guyesses!

Google takes $1.1bn chomp out of HTC, smacks lips, burps

Stuart 22

A lesson learnt?

"However, the deal does have echoes of Google's ill-fated $12.5bn (£8.8bn) acquisition of Motorola Mobility in 2012, which it later offloaded to Lenovo for a mere $2.91bn (£2bn). Not to mention Microsoft's disastrous purchase of Nokia's phone biz for $7.2bn (£5.1bn) in 2013. ®"

Well no. This time Google bought the bits they really need, people and patents. Not a manufacturer. They will presumably, like Apple, continue to outsource the clog iron bit.

A more interesting question, to me, is whether the rump of HTC without its top flight developers will just wither and die - or is there any agreement for Google's IP & design to trickle down giving HTC an advantage in the Pixel-Lite market.

You know, the only one most of us can afford or are prepared to invest in a device with less than a 24 month horizon.


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