Re: I smell fail
None of these devices are tablets. They're more powerful ultrabooks with touchscreens.
4544 posts • joined 26 Jul 2008
None of these devices are tablets. They're more powerful ultrabooks with touchscreens.
That's probably less the case than it was. Office 2013 supports both ODF and the new, actually implementable OOXML (as opposed to the mess that was rushed through ISO five or so years ago). Both should be supported by any mainstream office product for many years to come. I think generally MS Office is preferred because it offers a lot more in the way of enterprise features, a nicer interface and supports a lot of more advanced features that tend not to be supported in Open Office. I just find it a lot nicer all round and paying $99 for being more productive over a year is easily worth it for me. This is becoming even more true with the online capabilities of MS Office. But each their own. Document compatability is much less of an issue than it used to be.
"Can you open that case again as most people end up with a mobile phone at the end of their contract!"
That is true and a difference between phone contracts and MS Office. But I was addressing the OP's argument that people will always spend more money up front to save money in the long-run. Phone contracts are just one example out of many, that most people just don't think that long-term. And frequently people plunge straight back into a contract for the sake of getting something more up to date, just as many will stay with the rental model of MS Office for the sake of always having the latest version.
"Anybody who voluntarily continues to use vi is obviously a masochist who likes things to be far harder than they need to be and as such is not qualified to say what makes a good end-user experience."
I use vi for any scripts I want to write and also any web-programming, e.g. PHP or Django development, which whilst an IDE probably would offer advantages, I find I don't actually need.
Besides, I've spent ten years learning shortcuts and commands in vi. I'm not going to quit when I've just passed the half-way stage, am I?
"Huh? Well of cause it will take four years, your comparing the 4 times cheaper home edition to the 4 times more expensive Professional edition. So, how much of a saving is there if you compare apples to apples instead of trying to pull a fast one on us? About $40 saving for the home user, for 1 year. After that it's about $60 more expensive and gets more so each year."
The subscription version for Home however is for five users. The purchase install is for one device. If you're the only one, then buy the purchased version. If you want your whole family to have it, including children at school or Uni., then get the subscription one for five people. I don't get why some people look at a choice of options, and then get angry that one of the options is not as good for them as the other. Get the one that suits you. Purchase prices are comparable to the purchase price of previous versions of Office.
"For many family types, an annual subscription is going to highlight just how much Microsoft stuff is costing them, instead of it being hidden in the upfront purchase price. After the first annual renewal, I can see many cash strapped families thinking how can I avoid this."
Have you ever looked at how many people buy their mobile phones on contract rather than buying SIM-free upfront? Case closed, I think.
"For small businesses, the idea of all your data being somewhere out in the etherworld ... no, lots of owner managers are not going to buy that one."
Nothing in this model demands that your data be stored online. And businesses can deploy their own clouds. Doesn't have to be SkyDrive. It can be your own server in your own office if you want. Or just don't use the cloud at all. The software still installs locally.
"Sounds like - with this strict one device licence - you'll have trouble if a PC breaks down, and either needs replaced, new hard drive installation."
Less problems if you think about it. If I have the old-fashioned install on my machine and it breaks, I have to re-obtain, re-install elsewhere. With the streaming version, I just grab my spare device (or someone else's), log-in and use Office again. I've tried the Streaming version and it took about two minutes and I was up and running and as far as I could see it was pretty much feature for feature comparable. And it still works with all my data locally. I think some people don't understand the difference between local installs, streaming version and the Online Office.
"Pure and simply another money grabbing exercise by Microsoft. Nothing else. I see no benefit whatsoever to the average user."
Permanent updates, ability to use anywhere with or without installing, integrated video calling, included online storage and syncing, licencing based on user rather than device (if preferred), a choice of purchasing model that best suits you, a more secure system of plugin writing and deployment than the old VB Macro monstrosities and all the other refinements of a new version of Office.
"As a small business owner, I have never felt comfortable with on-line applications. There have been times when a drive went tits up and I didn't have a backup of my data, but I am more diligent about that now. I could (and did) get some data back from a recovery company (at quite a cost). My biggest fear is that I won't have access to the application or my data when I really need it. If my internet goes down, I can still print out invoices with my accounting system that resides on my computer. If I had an on-line accounting systems I would be screwed. I would be even more screwed if their internet, server farm or entire business packed it in. I couldn't even throw money at the problem. I would also be stuck with manually inputing all of my accounting for the year into a purchased accounting software package. There went my week or two. Losing my correspondence and other business documentation could be just as bad."
So install one of our five licences locally, just as you did with Office 2010 or whichever. You don't have to use the online or streaming versions only - those are just convenient extras. The only difference is that the local install will occasionally check if your subscription is still valid and throw up a message prompting you if it isn't.
Presumably you can sell a permanent licence and if you are renting on a month by month basis, you can't. Or at best, you could try and sell the last few months of rent. Bit like buying a house vs. renting, it seems to me. Is it unfair in the latter scenario that you can sell the deeds to your house but trying to sell the last week of your tenancy is difficult? I honestly think that someone trying to sell on the last $8 (one month) of MS Home Office subscription is really just crazy.
"I've been using sc, bc, dc and vi to run my businesses for decades."
I use vi pretty much every day for coding. But the Gods help me if I ever had to write a professional looking invoice in it. I mean yes, I can just about remember how to use LaTeX, but I'd prefer to open Word and click on my stored Invoice template. You have to be joking if you think sc and bc can be favourably compared to Excel for doing my taxes, either!
"Explain again how microsoft (and/or google, etc.) can fix what ain't broke, without me spending an awful lot of money throwing unnecessary hardware at the (lack of) problem?"
Win8 and Office 2013 run absolutely fine on hardware that is even four years old which is a lifetime in hardware terms. Win8 actually runs better on most older hardware than Win7. If you are calling a dual core 2.8GHz machine with 2GB or RAM "unnecessary hardware" then you're a weird person. You can get such hardware for less than £90. Is that really the biggest expense in your business?
"To say nothing of trusting a second party to *always* be able to provide my business data when I ask for it (to say nothing of trusting a third party with my client's data ... )."
You are confused. Nothing about a rental model means that the data has to leave your machine. Even with the streaming version that you deploy ad hoc, that doesn't mean that the documents ever have to leave your own machine.
"And then there's the old "trusting a multibillion dollar multi-national advertising company". Corporations using this kind of thing are just asking for it. Induhviduals using it haven't the cognitive skills to be online."
Yes, anyone who uses MS Office lacks the "cognitive skills to be online". Oh look - a billion people have just proved you wrong. You're a troll and an ill-informed one who doesn't understand the difference between installed software periodically checking a online and uploading all your business data.
"Ok if you have unlimited Internet, a steady connection and only go where you can get a wireless signal."
You can use the subscription version offline. It still installs. It's just that the purchased version wont expire and the subscription version will. So long as your device is allowed to connect up once a month or similar, it should stay working.
"What if you are someone who doesn't change to the newest product every year."
Well technically, it will be about every four years before you start to cost yourself slightly more by renting. But to answer your question, if this is the case then you buy the permanent version. Would you prefer it if there were only one sales model that suited only you?
"h4rm0ny is one the more prominent pro-Microsoft shills on this site."
I don't and never have worked for MS. If you have to try and cry shill rather than address my arguments, then you should question your own biases.
And in a lot of ways he was right about Vista. It finally brought a security model to Windows that was equivalent to what UNIX and Linux had had for over a decade. It brought in a lot of the groundwork for Windows 7 and Windows 8. Vista was more secure than any previous version of Windows (I think). It was also annoying, but that's a different issue. So what if he was saying Vista had the best X or Y yet. That doesn't logically preclude saying Win8 has a better X or Y because Win8 is coming out after Vista. Both statements can be true.
I always thought the 'Walled Garden' referred to the inability to put things on there unless they were bought via Apple's own store. Before Apple, remember, it was usually the case that you could install something from anywhere. The walled garden seem to be Apple's one area where they really did pioneer things. (Mostly unfortunately, imo. Now MS is following suit).
Personally, if the often poor voice quality can be improved, I'm all for that. Mind you, I liked HD over SD as well and I remember the vast numbers of posts on here that angrily argued how it was unnecessary and they couldn't see the difference or you were an idiot to care about it if you could.
"Or maybe the demand was too high and despite good planning they were sold out...... Of course, this doesn't work too well with the agenda of your comment."
"Good planning" isn't fully compatible with "demand was too high". If they don't have enough to meet demand, then they didn't produce enough. The only question is whether the forecast was wrong by error or by design. Selling out is good publicity. Almost any company would try that trick and Apple is possibly the world's greatest marketing company so it's hardly unlikely that they would have deliberately held back. It's not even a particularly serious accusation. It's quite possible that they have a whole bunch of containers of these things waiting in China that they decided to place on this month's ship rather than last months just so they could get the "SOLD OUT!" headline. Companies have done far, far worse things than that in the pursuit of profit.
The only real negative for them of the 'sold out' ploy, is if either the hype on the iPhone5 is very shortlived (which it probably will be) or if something else steals their thunder (which with a variety of WP8 phones imminently about to be launched is quite possible). In this latter case, the Marketing 101 could actually backfire for once.
"Did I read that right, you can't check email unless you pay for an app from the app store?"
It comes with a mail application built in, there will be a lot of free alternatives I have no doubt and most people have a web-interface to their email accounts as well.
@ShelLuser - you never seem to bother to actually look into Windows 8 at more than the most cursory level to see if what you list as a big problem is actually easily resolvable or even a problem at all.
Example: When you start Word 2013 you make the default page sound like some difficult thing to escape from. No, you don't have to press Escape even, you can just click on the blank document template that is right there prominently displayed. I actually find the recent document list useful (it's certainly better than previous versions, what with being compartmentalised into locations and having everything clearly titled in a different font). But if you don't want this as your default - you can turn it off. Open up options, it's right there on the default option page that first appears - Show Start Screen on Start-up. Just untick this and you go straight into a blank document every single time. It literally took me thirty seconds to do that.
"Talk about fail.. I mean honestly; why not give us users a choice. You know; allowing a wide range of end users to use your products the way WE want ?"
Why did you not bother to make a trivial check to find that there actually is a choice before pouring your anger out on a forum posting inaccurate comments? Seriously, more than half the time I use Word, I want to open up an existing document and it's one click to get a blank from the default page anyway. This is not cause for the endless angry posts you make here.
"And here we are now: Microsoft reinventing he wheel without paying attention to any prior cause. As usual. While ending up making things much harder on the end user. As usual again it seems."
I'm sorry to say it, but another flying off the handle post from you without any fact checking as usual. You spend four paragraphs talking about lack of choice (translation, an extra click, compensated for by reduced multiple clicks in other use cases) when the option is right there on the first tab in Options.
I'm very familiar with the Dresden Dolls and knew who Amanda Palmer is. I had no idea she was married to Neil Gaiman who I am vaguely aware of as a comic book artist.
Shame on El Reg. for referring to an established and successful female artist as "the wife of..."
"If it had been a member of the audience trying to log in rather than a trained MS demonstrator, they'd still be at the opening screen wondering how to make it do anything more interesting than bob up and down when you click on it."
If you click on the screen a box appears labelled password. What sort of criticism is this?
"Thing is, previous UI changes have been optional at first, and were much less drastic - they were still based around mouse and keyboard. Win8 introduces (and somewhat forces) a UI that only makes sense via touch. It does this even if it detects that no touch input is available."
Then I don't believe you have actually used Win8 to any significant degree. It works just as well as Win7 with mouse and keyboard - I have no touch screen with it and have been using it comfortably for over a month now. It's faster to do most tasks and better handles my multi-monitor set up. I've yet to find anything that is more difficult in Win8 with keyboard and mouse than in Win7 and in many cases, it's quicker.
"Am I alone in finding thinner phones more awkward to handle?"
I don't think they've reached the point of being hard to handle - they're still perfectly comfortable in that regard (screen size is more of an issue for me). But I don't see any great benefit of having them this thin though. Like everyone else on here is saying, more battery life is a far better selling point than shaving a few milimetres off the thickness. Ditto for weight. Even my little hands can handle a phone that weighs more than this. Not that I'm not impressed by the technical progress, but I think it's more for the fashonistas than for practical purposes..
Article would have been better with a note saying what the resolution on the display was.
Bloody Hell! I paid £160 for my Lumia 710 SIM-free and it already does pretty much everything I want. Admittedly, I don't play games on it so that might be an issue. But seriously? £700 for a phone? Ouch!
"uSD card slot, 'admin' logon with sudo rights, higher res display, removable battery twice the size, USB host port, SSH server."
SSH capability, e.g. a SSH capable shell - useful (albeit not to most people). But an SSH server? What are you planning to do with your phone?
"Not even a full 720p screen?"
Why on earth would you need a 720p screen on something that is 4"? There are televisions that are 720p. About six years ago, you would have thought 720p on an 18" monitor was nice. I'm all for progress, but some things just seem excessive to me.
"It's a little tall for my tastes and will require longer pockets."
But for someone else it will be just right. Different people have different tastes / needs (for example, I want a small phone that's comfortable to hold). It seems mysterious to me that Apple are only releasing one size of phone. Surely it would make good sense to target all sections of the mobile phone using market. Am I missing something here?
I like the battery life they report for this thing. I think the "HD Voice" thing is present on several existing phones already though and we're just waiting for more network operators to provide the service....?
"Wouldn't it have been better if they just pointed that big rocket to the sky and launched something to space for a change?"
If someone misses a pebble on the track, it probably will.
If you bought after SP1 was released, I think you were alright with XP. I think a lot of people had pain if they bought in before then. I personally had recently bought a laptop with WIndows ME on it, and thus began my over a decade of using Linux as my primary OS.
Replacable battery was one of the deciding factors in me buying a cheaper phone over a more expensive version of it. Ironic that their cheaper phone had a significant selling point over a phone a couple of hundred pounds more expensive). It's not even only that I might want to swap in a fully charged one in a hurry (though this is good), but because I don't trust longevity of batteries. Maybe someone who only plans for their phone to last a year has no problem. But batteries wear out and if I want mine to be usable three years from now, I want to know that I can replace the battery.
Unless battery technology has come on along way since the last time I bought a laptop four years ago?
People will borrow money to buy things. So long as people keep borrowing, the US economy will keep running. If they stop borrowing, or can't keep up with the treadmill any longer, they get flung off the back.
Sounds like a silly metaphor, but in a number of ways it's actually quite accurate for how the US economy is being managed. Look at the bank bailouts. They didn't give money to people. They gave it to the banks so that the banks could make sure people could carry on borrowing from them.
Replying to whichever post is top-most just so you can get more attention for your own, is not good behaviour.
Title says it all really. Annoying disk eating things. I would rather just re-install from a DVD or USB device and have the drive space back.
"This seems to imply random switching into Metro mode depending on file associations, is that true? That sounds nasty if it is."
If the file association is a Metro app, then yes, it will switch you to that. But it's entirely your choice what programs you associate with what file types, just as it is previous versions. The only reason the writer is having this problem is because the Metro PDF reader is probably the only PDF reader they have installed. If you install Foxit or Adobe Reader or whatever your preference is and make it the primary for PDFs, they'll open in the Desktop just as normal. Win7 didn't come with a PDF reader installed, as far as I recall, so it's really just the same as Win7 in that you need to install something, with the caveat that if you can't be bothered, there's already the ability to open them present on the system.
Nuclear power is not considered a "renewable".
Solar and wave power are, as is geothermal. But if we're talking "powered to any large degree by renewables" then I think wind has to be a significant part of that. I suppose a big shift in biofuels technology could change that if we ditch the current disastrous version because we crack some viable algae-based version, but with current technologies, the statement appears correct to me.
"Unfortunately, those greens who have faced up to the facts about nuclear power - specifically its actual risk to life (even when the worst happens) and its capacity to generate low carbon baseloads the world needs *today*, have found themselves largely ostracised by the green movement"
Yes we have. We very much have. I am an active environmentalist who cannot join any of the main environmental lobbying groups because whilst they'll happily take my money, they wont listen if I try to point out flaws in their anti-nuclear stance. Yes, Friends of the Earth, I am very much looking at you.
Same here - I largely agree with Lewis (this time), but when I saw him gloating over them saying half when the actual figures were 48%... that's a significant red flag. If you get excited about scoring those sorts of cheap shots, it makes the reader doubt if they have any really significant arguments.
You've misunderstood. Big Ted is not saying that users will be changing the OS on their phone but that manufacturers would be able to do so if a patent problem reared its head. E.g. if Samsung couldn't sell the Galaxy SIII in the USA with Android on it, they might theoretically be able to slap WP8 on it.
@Kristian Walsh. That was one of the best posts I've read on here in ages. My only question for you is why you didn't write the article we're all replying to.
"Too right my friend. This article is such a load of nonsense. It isn't like WP7.5 has given WP8 a springboard to go and succeed as you cant even upgrade your WP7.5 hardware to 8 (very silly IMHO)."
And if two years ago, Nokia had released multi-core phones with hardware far in excess of what WP7 required for the sake of meeting the requirements of a phone two years down the line, you would not have been critical of that?
"There's no game changer in WP8 from reviews and countless plays on existing WP7.5 devices. So it isn't going anywhere."
It's very nice to use from what I've seen (I have WP7 so some idea of what ModernUI is like on a phone) and seems very nice to develop for and you can simultaneously develop for Desktops, tablets and phones. I don't see why you should be so confident you know that it wont do well. Signs so far are pointing to 'yes' as it's looking increasingly well regarded the more people see of it from what I understand.
"Secondly, you find a single current AGW supporter in the public eye who will make the nuclear argument over renewables"
There are plenty of people who believe in AGW and also believe in nuclear power. The problem is that the big environmental groups such as Friends of the Earth, are dominated by older people who have serious prejudices against nuclear power and keep a lock on the voice of environmentalism as much as possible. When the media want a comment on an environmental matter, they call a spokesperson for FoE or Greenpeace or whoever. So you seldom hear from any but the Old Guard on environmental activism. Unfortunately.
"And I wouldn't be happy either if my house price halves as a result."
I totally would be. I could buy a nicer home for less cost because others wouldn't want to live there as much.
"Win8RT won't make much of an impression if it's priced to compete with the iPad - the people who will pay $600 for a tablet have already bought an iPad."
If that's true, then it doesn't look very hopeful for sales of the next iPad.
WinRT devices such as the Surface RT are feature comparable with the iPad (actually, they have greater connectivity and an integrated keyboard, so it's actually more). So there's no good reason why it should not be priced to compete with the iPad save that I think tablet and hybrid prices will be coming down now all around anyway.
"Yet the site has been up since Feb 1, 2011. Are you as vociferous in pointing out to Google this travesty, or are you restricted to merely shooting messengers?"
I'm not sure how long the site has been up is relevant, other than as an example of how old this is and how long you've been repeating it. I'm also unclear on your logic which seems to be that if someone said something incorrect and another person knowingly keeps spreading that incorrectness because it suits their bias, that no-one has a right to criticise the person knowingly repeating it. There are no comments allowed on that blog post you linked to, otherwise I would happily comment on it pointing out the flaws. You could ask them to allow people to comment if you want... :)
"hilarious squirming trying to excuse your masters"
I don't work for MS and never have. I think some telecoms software I wrote back in 2001/2 was sold to them (amongst many other clients), but it was on HP Unix 11 platform so I hope that's excusable. ;) Trying to imply that someone is a shill because you don't like what they say is a low thing to do.
"anyone even getting to the second sentence has all they need to know"
Well for anyone who fancies reading more, I was happy to provide some greater information than you did. You say "the bottom line is, these Bing results came directly from Google". No, they came from a team of twenty people (according to your link) who submitted the data from their own computers repeatedly and then found after a few weeks of deliberately associating a random string with a given page and repeatedly submitting that association to MS according to voluntary settings they had enabled, that the association stated to show up in Bing. So as you can see, sometimes it is worth reading further than the second sentence. ;)
"Jesus, and as if that's not enough we've now got to think about avs when we post let the self appointed fucking icon police get the hump."
Well it makes me feel a bit like most Americans abroad feel when some loud and ignorant person keeps waving their flag around and making people think all Americans are like that. I've been using Linux for around sixteen years and if you want to talk about "self-appointed", I see that more in you repeatedly accompanying your misinformation and FUD with a Linux symbol as you obviously want to be seen as representing Linux. It's disappointing.
"I'm not sure I follow your argument: they use the same header but in a different way from all the other browsers, therefore it's not misleading?"
I'm not sure I follow your interpretation of my argument. (Seriously - not trying to score points. I don't think that's what I'm saying but I'm not quite sure what you're getting at). Just to re-iterate, there's no technical difference between the header being sent from IE10 and from any other browser. I don't get your premise that it is used in a "different way to all other browsers". The only difference is that the user is made aware of the choice and one is actually set. Talk of the headers is really focusing below the level of the issue. There's no way for the server to tell what the users intention is other than based on the header or its absence. As pointed out, Firefox, when you turn DNT off, actually just doesn't send the header (rather than sending DNT:0). The change to Apache means that at the web-application level (where application behaviour based on DNT should actually be placed), you can't tell what IE10 has sent because Apache has overridden it before it gets passed up to the application layer.
"I'm not really wanting to defend Fielding so much as criticise Microsoft as that's where the problem lies"
That's the thing. I don't agree that presenting the user with an actual choice when they set the system up, rather than burying the setting somewhere and deliberately keeping users ignorant that they even have a choice, is a fault on Microsoft's part.
"The Apache code is open so Fielding's change was open and transparent and easily reversed."
Actually this isn't as wholesome as you make it sound. For a start, this commit came out of nowhere with no discussion and was put in early in the morning right before a code freeze for a major release. To remove it they have had to actually file a bug report and it's going to take a few weeks to get it out again. Additionally, many on the Apache project feel that it was an abuse of Fielding's position to put a politically motivated change in and in a manner and timing that suggests he wanted to force it through by virtue of careful timing.
"What *should* happen is exactly the same as usually happens when MS "embrace"a standard: detect the browser in the application code and (once again) code around it."
Thing is, IE10 is compliant with the draft standard. They even changed the standard after the Win8 preview appeared in order to try and make MS non-compliant. But it didn't actually succeed because MS actually are presenting the user with a choice which is what the standard calls for. Also, it's really not the appropriate place for this to be addressed. I do not want Apache choosing to removed HTTP headers invisibly before it reaches the application layer. The standard states that relaying services for the HTTP requests should not alter the DNT header. And yet that is exactly what this code commit makes Apache do. You have it the wrong way round - IE10 is actually compliant. Fielding has actually made Apache be non-compliant. Your ire should be directed at Fielding if you care about standards.
Yes, I believe so. DNT itself is the strategy because so long as it is there, advertisers have a way of saying to the EU (or USA or others) that the tracking is voluntary on the users' part and thus okay. But yes, if the default were not off, then the strategy falls apart and will be abandoned. What I'm saying is that DNT is presented as a concession wrung from advertisers, but in actual fact, it is to their advantage. All they have to do is to make sure that it is off for the overwhelming majority of people which they can do if they can force all the major browser manufacturers to bury the setting somewhere. Firefox already does this voluntarily. What we are seeing, is arguments that IE should be forced to do so. The draft has already been changed in response to IE10, post fact.
"I find YOU personally OFFENSIVE, you don't hear me whinging on like a woman on her bloodies."
I think we just did. ;)
"True. But it would be damned funny."
Okay, I admit it would be funny given recent history. But when I'd stopped laughing, I would be looking at a less competitive market.
Laughter is passing. Patents are forever. (Or is that copyright?)
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