Obviously some people still think this product is legal...
44 posts • joined 13 Mar 2008
Same ole spyware scam re-repackaged yet again into another stupid product..
Excuse me but why do these guys at Phorm keep harping on about their privacy enhancements when the truth is quite the contrary? Stealing people’s personal information certainly cannot be described as a privacy enhancement just because a renowned spyware baron tell you it is..
It’s doing my head in..
Looks like dear ole BT have come a cropper over this one..
These marketeers are crying out for their 21cn to get bigger richer ads over to you and want the tax payer to foot the bill so they can rake it in from every direction at your expense..
'Clear?' .. Oh yes, clearly illegal and clearly absurd. Stick your 21cn and your bt vision and give the internet back to the people... I go further and say turn BT back into a public telephone company and let arseholes like Kent Ertregul go back to what he's good at, wrecking kids computers worldwide...
Everyone’s missing the point and that point is we want our broadband providers to supply us broadband and not spyware. It’s not about huge fines or jail time but just give us what we paid for..
Implicit consent? I don’t recall giving any consent to my private internet communications being opened by 3rd party spyware vendors who were under investigation by the FTC, quite the contrary in fact.
If anyone wants an instant monopoly over all internet advertising then it is neither legal or morally correct to do it in such a bullish manner.
If the CPS ever allows prosecution after scrutinising the evidence it will no doubt be entirely taken over by the police to pursue. No one does a private criminal prosecution in this country as this would only make a mockery out of the British juridical system that we pay to serve us.
The way I see it is BT maintain they had a right to do what they did assuming users implied consent and this may be arguable however BT fell very foul of the law when they involved 3rd parties of such dubious backgrounds to access all our private data/communications without explicit consent.
That's the way the CPS will see it as will the judge at the end of the day and BT/Phorm should both go down for it.
Any investigations should also focus on 121media's previous illegal activities before they hooked up with BT and we may eventually see a bit of justice done for that as well.
I don’t think all is well in the BT/PHORM camp.
I have read all the relevant laws and their WEBWISE deployment is clearly illegal in every aspect of the law so only fools would take this thing forward now knowing the consequences.
We cannot distance ourselves any further from the rest of the world by legalising spyware in the UK therefore this spyware system must be stopped.
Anyway if the system is as good as they say it is why don’t they just repackage is as a downloadable executable that everyone’s bound to snap up, they could call it something like ‘PEOPLE-ON-PAGE’
This is legally and morally wrong and I would imagine one could obtain a high court injunction against BT's irresponsible actions or at least force them to comply with the ICO's directive which clearly states 'it must be opt-in' and no harrassment thereafter for those who choose to opt out. No means 'NO' and I have no intention of educating my children about BT spyware other than say no once and if the continue forcing it we will bring a charge of harrassment/stalking against them.
As for you website owners, you did choose to go public but I do agree with you that nobody has the right to scan and alter your content to profit from via 3rd party abuse. Seek an injunction...
It's astonishing that every country has come down hard on these forms of spyware yet the UK government have promoted it and similarly the British police have endorsed it as criminally exempt.
It's even more sickening to discover Bt/Phorm are considering involving national charities to assist them in peddling their wares to the public in exchange for generous donations.
I have read the sample Bt/Phorm Webwise interception page and it clearly conflicts with the ICO's requirements, it is not transparent, it is not sensitive to users wishes and it is most ambiguous in stating the correct terms in smallest print.. To me it is identical to every other known spyware scam on the internet that has plagued us for so many years and caused so much harm to everyone.
It must be stopped.
You cannot control government corruption and evil will always prevail when there's two billion up for grabs in the next year or two.. A lot of people are going to get very rich serving up this misery on the ignorant public therefore there's nothing anyone can do apart from suffer and pay for their benefit...
I would love to see one very brave police officer stand up and arrest these evil bastards and what a scandal would come to light thereafter with the numerous charges that would be made against 121 media ... One arrest, one charge and the whole spyware thing they've been plaguing us with for years will suddenly come spiralling down making the internet a better place for us all..
Yes I do believe BT had some kind of implied consent to test/experiment to improve users connections but they most certainly had no right to pass users account data to known 3rd party spyware merchants that we all so despise...
Think you’ll find any police investigation into Bt’s wrong doings is to satisfy EU requirements only and as a result the whole thing will be laid to rest with the forthcoming secret Viviane Reding reply... Bt will then begin it’s trials and deploy this dpi system.
It’s ‘opt in’ and because of that Bt will have to blackmail it’s users into doing so by offering them substantial reductions and hiked up charges for those who refuse.
Dear Viviane Reding,
May I lend my support in favour of any action you see fit to curb the internet privacy invasions by BT-PHORM in the UK and please add me to the long list of complainants against these illegal activities.
Every living individual has a fundamental right to his/her privacy and although I have so far beaten the invaders by changing to a reputable Isp I do however feel sympathy for the more vulnerable people who will no doubt be victimised by their lack of awareness.
The whole community supports your stance against privacy lawbreaking in the UK that if allowed has the potential to sweep over the whole world like a bad disease.
'This article was posted roughly 21 hours ago and there are about 40 comments. When the first few stories broke the number of comments would have been up in the hundreds within minutes. BT just have to sit there ignoring everybody until the noise made by the really vocal minority becomes less than the background noise. Then they'll get on with implementing it.'
What a load of rubbish. BT/PHORM need to acquire explicit consent for an opt in to this scam and who to hell in their right mind would do this? They are also required to be sensitive to customers wishes which rules out any dirty tricks or harrassment.. Also as the article clearly states 'the EU will take action' if the law is abused.
I think the general public are happy now this spyware programme has been curbed therefore very little protest on here...
Be careful cancelling you BT broadband, ring their customer support first and explain your worries regard your online privacy then ask for a MAC code without penalty.
They can if they want hold you to your contract and either sting you for the remainder of the contract or lock up your broadband line forever more until you pay the full amount.
It's so easy once you get the MAC code and swapping to a spyware free ISP is fully automated with only 30 minutes downtime..
This whole thing is quite scary..
I'm still shocked this once respected household service has started dealing with such notorious rogues like 121media. Even more shocked that their criminal activities are being permitted under UK laws.. Is this a break down of the UK legal system or what?
I forced BT to scrap my £300 penalty over this and have gone onto Zen broadband with a £7 a month saving and I'm really delighted with their service, absolutely wonderful people. Believe me it's so easy and you do not need BT or their hackers..
FIPR want the Home Office to withdraw informal advice they issued in February, which FIPR say wrongly concluded the system is lawful, creating “an obstacle to the just enforcement of the law”.
If I ever get hold of Kent Ertugrul I'll be facing criminal charges...
I also scrapped BT 4 weeks ago over these hacking issues and got out of the £300 penalty for the remaining 12 months. Now with Zen for the same price and they are absolutely brilliant.
My advice to everyone is 'scrap Bt' over these same hacking issues and find a good user friendly ISP like Zen, you will not regret it and you won't believe how easy it is.. Once you get the Mac code Zen can set up your new account in less than 5 minutes. You can still access your Bt emails after the change over a few days later.
Having left Bt doesn't mean the war is over between us because I can assure you I'm still attacking them for their injustices. I have lodged all my complaints from MP to The Lords about this scam and I have been busy blocking Bt- Wbwise- Phorm-Oix cookies on loads of public computers that I get access to. In fact I will assist anyone and everyone in this country to block all these spyware cookies free of charge until this government starts implimenting the law as it is written.
Even more bizarre is the government in discussion with these hackers to allow them permanent access to all our private internet transactions thereafter.
Is this really happening here in the UK?
Targeted advertising will reduce consumer choice in the long run and will prohibit new or less known and innovative products from ever finding their way into the internet market place through this discriminatory practice.
I call for market freedom as has always been and let no monopoly ever tell me what is ‘significant’ or ‘insignificant’
Individual selective targeting implies victimisation of a singular selected person and is totally illegal under UK law. Ask the people and 100% of them would object to being individually targeted for any product, service or criminal attack as they would naturally enough feel unfairly victimised by this.
I ask the government to take the bold step forward with an immediate blanket ban on all ‘selected individual targeting’ proposals by Phorm under present day antidiscrimination laws and preserve freedom of rights for us all.
Thursday 10 April 2008
Dear Paul Goodman,
I have read the revised ICO report on the ‘public versus Phorm invasive
technology’ argument and I am satisfied that the ICO have done a good
job in clarifying the ‘opt in’ option as being the only legal way to
move forward with this advert system however I have to express my
concerns regarding the planned trials of this system.
I think anyone would agree that such a system could be open to abuse so
surely some rules should be applied in the early stages. The real
danger is that Phorm/Bt may rig the trials in favour of themselves by
showing you limited interceptions and minimum adverts. These actions
will possibly make the system look like a good option to all concerned
but will this be consistent in the long term? My real fear is they will
step up the intrusions as the system progresses and our browsers may be
turned into bulging shopping trolleys forced on to us at our cost. I
say if Bt/Phorm cannot guarantee consistency of the trial model through
to the full working model then it must be prohibited.
I have to add that I am truly disgusted by the sheer amount of secrecy
involved in this Bt/Phorm venture and I cannot condone the huge level
of anger and disrespect aimed at our government by all parties in the
dispute. The net results of this only serves to frighten people off
using the internet therefore I would suggest the government play a more
direct role in assuring they are acting in a more protective mode on
behalf of all honest internet users.
You know guys this whole bloody disgraceful scam Bt entered into with this 121Media has done absolutely no good for anyone. They're scaring people off the internet for christ sakes. All this talk about hacking users accounts and legalising spyware by these rogues has seriously damaged any respect Bt or this government may have had.. Let the government we elected into office lay down the law once and for all and end this bloody farce.. As for Kent Ertugrul send him back to Russia on his Mig 29 where he can get back to writing up some new rootkits he's so good at and when it's all over the Bt monopoly should be broken up into more competitive companies as punishment.
Tuesday 8 April 2008
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
House of Lords
Dear Lord Phillips of Sudbury,
Regarding the recent developments in the public versus Bt-Phorm’s
invasive internet technology.
I have been made aware of section 1 of the Regulation of Investigatory
Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) and that Bt and 3rd party 121media have
deliberately committed a minimum of 36,000 offences under this act by
hacking into users accounts and altering their internet browsing
activities without them knowing.
I believe certain other individuals in past years have been fairly
prosecuted and imprisoned for similar crimes of this nature but recent
reports seem to indicate the British Government is in approval of Bt’s
defiance of these same laws. Can you confirm Bt along with 121Media
are being granted immunity from prosecution and why?
Omg the shit's hit the fan now...
I mailed this to my mp this morning and just had a reply saying he's forwarded it to the minister;;;;
The Phorm Webwise terms should consider the following;
It must be one time ‘opt in’ option and not include a drive by install of anything that alters the users computer or internet browser settings.
Users must be warned that their own browser settings include a perfectly adequate phishing filter by default and that adding a 3rd party phishing filter of dubious origin should be very carefully considered.
Targeted advertising is an unfair practice and ‘opt in’ users must be given a more random freedom of choice. If I search and purchase an object in the course of an hour or so then I do not want to be bombarded with useless adverts for the same product day after day as this would immediately become a nuisance. If one accidently clicks on an ad and finds it repugnant then one should not be subjected to bombardment of similar repugnant ads day after day. Also users should be subsidised for the wasted bandwidth this costs them.
Users must be made aware that Phorm Webwise hide behind invisible 3rd party proxy servers and that their private internet data is being sent to undisclosed locations throughout the world.
Finally, users must be warned that Phorm were recently called 121media with roots in adware, spyware, trojans and rootkits before being asked to ‘opt in’ to this service. The Federal Trades Commission (FTC) have been investigating 121media since 2005.
Firstly, we have not launched BT Webwise yet. (Thank god.) We do not have a single customer going through any third party servers. (Ah, so what is Phorm then?) We do expects to begin opt-in technical trials of the BT Webwise service shortly. (Strange comment as your mates said it started 2 weeks ago.)We will be inviting around 10,000 BT broadband customers to take part in the trial. (Invite or force it on them?)
The trial invitation will be presented through a special web page that will appear when those customers start a web browsing session. (Ah yes, a pop-up we all love to get.) At this point, those customers invited can choose YES or NO. (Say no at your peril.) It is possible that you may not get invited. (Aww poor me.) In that case you won't get BT Webwise service. (Crying my eyes out.)
Any roll out plans will be confirmed only after technical trials are completed. (Yeah if you can get around the law first.) Our website www.bt.com/webwise will notify you when the date for technical trials is confirmed. (Oh thank you, will you start spamming me then?)
BT Webwise will always be offered as a fully informed choice. (More pop-ups you mean or spam mail?) Those customers who choose to opt out will not have their browsing information mirrored or profiled. (However we channel all your browsing through Phorm proxy who may have other plans.) No information is gathered, and therefore no information is forwarded to Phorm. (Either that is a change of policy or a direct lie.) Customers who opt out will not come into contact with any Phorm-managed equipment. (Yes that is a change if we can believe you.)
There are 2 ways to opt out of BT Webwise. (But why opt out if I am not opted in?)
1. Visit www.bt.com/webwise and click Switch Off. (Oh that sounds easy enough, switch off and that is the end of the matter.) Note that this will be activated only after the service is launched. (Oh so apart from trials you have already decided to launch the service?) This standard opt out method does depend on a cookie remaining on your machine indicating that you have opted out. (But I have opted out so why plant spyware cookies on my pc when I have clearly stated NO?) If you delete your cookies regularly, you will have to opt-out again each time you start a browsing session. (But I have already said NO to you and this would be called stalking or harassment?)
2. If you delete cookies regularly and want to remain opted out, you can set all your browsers to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net.
When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. (But this is technically too advanced for me, are Bt going to send an It guy to my house to do this free of charge?)
You can use this option now and will then be opted out of BT Webwise. (Are you sending out this advice to all your customers?)
I hope this email addresses your concerns regarding BT Webwise service. (Emmm! No! You deny the 3rd party proxy server called Phorm and you are asking me to interfere with my pc settings to block your constant pop-ups and you refuse to accept NO as meaning NO.)
Please visit www.bt.com/webwise for up to date information on BT Webwise. (No I am not that interested in Webwise or pop-ups or spyware or tracking cookies and NO means NO.)
BT Webwise Help Desk
After several weeks complaining I finally got a phone call from higher Bt customer services on Friday and managed to have my account terminated without penalty even with 12 months left. They guy was quite understanding and even called me back again within 15 minutes with a migration code. Job done on my part and in a couple of days from now I'll be with a 'no way to Phorm' isp who I'm more than delighted with.
My advice to you all is have a good moan at them and cancel your accounts as I did, you can never again trust an isp that deals with low life scum as they have. There are more reputable services out there awaiting on you and the move is much easier than you may think.
Has anyone noticed the similarities of Phorm's Webise to 121media's previous spyware material?
You will be forced to use their software that includes a new webwise toolbar attachment because if you opt out you will no doubt suffer slower speeds as your isp prioritises its Webwise users. That's common business sense and their traffic shaping will play a big role in this.
I've mailed Bt over a dozen times over this Webise spyware business but they have not replied. I've phoned their customer services dept to arrange cancellation of my account without penalty but they passed on my request to higher office who have again also refused to get back to me.. I just want out of this mess but they won't let me go..
Webwise is a dangerous path for any isp to follow because when it enevitably goes wrong they might face the biggest clean up bill in internet history and even closure because the warnings were all there right at the beginning.
Bt are currently testing the Webwise installation in Kingston on Thames and it appears they are also testing it on behalf of all the other isps as well. However I am convinced Bt will very soon announce that Webwise has failed these tests and that Bt will no longer continue merging with the Phorm proxy server because of this..
Bt really should not be discussing any kind of mergers with a crook like Kent Ertegrul a guy that should have been imprisoned for his evil activities against so many decent law abiding internet users. The law courts should be the ones discussing the millions in compensation claims he should pay instead before banging him up where he belongs..
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