Reply to post: Re: Usual Story

White House mulls just banning strong end-to-end crypto. Plus: More bad stuff in infosec land

Kiwi

Re: Usual Story

The three preferred methods of suicide in the Far East (where guns aren't available) are vehicle encounters, self-defenestration, and poison/overdose. Of those, the first is usually pretty certain, especially if the vehicle in question is a train. For the second, a flat or head-first landing from at least 10 stories tends to assure results. The third is usually the choice of the infirm and elderly. Remember, they have much worse rates so they must know how to make it stick (South Korea is second worst in the world, INCLUDING the Third World).

NZ is pretty much at the worst for youth suicide (according to our media/officials, but we're 53rd overall according to wikipedia), and I've spent my life in the at-risk populations (I mean being poor, white, male and gay - all our traditional suicide values).

Vehicle encounters esp trains - From what I know it's rare in NZ but perhaps not unheard of, and perhaps a few 'accidents' weren't. However, in most countries trains run to a schedule and not exactly every minute although a busy line may only get a minute or two between trains. That does give a waiting time, and a waiting time is sometimes all it takes to change the mind.

Self-defenestration - I'll consider jumping off a cliff to be pretty damned close to the same thing, after all it requires the same desire to overcome any fear of heights. It's also what I have personal experience with. Again, there is getting to the site (not so hard if you work in a 20 story building, bit harder if you live in an area with only 1-2 story buildings and no significant cliff for some distance) which gives time to think it over. In my case the cliff was a 10 minute drive and a 1 minute walk. The railway station and bridges over the tracks were closer, but I'd have had to wait for the trains so maybe the same amount of time. Our argument was later in the evening though, so perhaps I'd have had closer to an hour's wait. If I had've thought of jumping in front of a train then and the schedule was right, well maybe we wouldn't be talking now.

Anyway.. I drove in a state mixed both between anger and upset. Something happened along the way to delay me which I won't go into here, but I still arrived at the cliff edge in a state where I was determined that I would die that night. I did take some time to decide if the cliff was high enough or not (probably wouldn't have been), or if I'd have enough damage done that I'd be taken by the next tide (I nearly drowned in a primary school pool accident - the idea absolutely terrifies me!), and this afforded me some thinking time.

If I'd had a gun available, I would've gone to my room and used it. I have no doubt of that. He would've heard me tell him to fuck off out of my life, heard the door slam, then heard the bang. It also would've been done to hurt him (I can say that with some certainty given where I drove to).

I've known a couple of people who've killed themselves and known others who have tried, some by hanging some by pills. Those who have failed have generally realised it was a bad idea - a moments upset would lead to the end of their life when issues can be overcome, or survived (I get chronic pain - but I'll pay that price that as being alive gives me time to enjoy with people I love - and yes the only way to end the pain completely is to end my life, I have considered that on many sleepless nights!).

Guns are instant. The damage a bullet does if used right seldom leaves any room for ambiguity. Pills - minutes or hours to save a life. Hanging? Unless they break their neck, you've got a few minutes, and it takes a bit to get the rope, set it up and so on. Jumping? Instant death when they hit the ground perhaps, but there is the whole getting into position which takes time. Cutting/stabbing? Painful, takes some real desperation. Drowning? Lets not go there thanks!

I can get upset, take some pills, maybe go to sleep in a few minutes or maybe longer, maybe die maybe not. I can walk/climb high enough to jump - but then I may not be upset any more. I can plan to jump in front of a train, but 2 minutes is enough to change a mind. I might think of someone out of the blue and realise there's other options. Cars are less likely to kill but more readily available, but I still have to get out to a road and psych myself up for it.

A gun I can grab in anger and a second after touching it be dead, no time even to stop the semi automatic muscle movements I might've kicked off while my brain is raging and not thinking.

Some stats I noted in the search results I glanced over before posting this (but didn't grab the link to - find it on DDG looking for "suicide stats") - in the USA suicide is now the leading cause of death (or one of them - but then that also depends on how tightly you break down cause of death stats) and over 50% of those use guns.

I know more than I want to about suicide. My first real desire to try it was before my 9th birthday. I've lost friends to it, helped families of people I love clean up afterwards, and talked people out of it, some more than once.

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