Re: "We also dont need permission to leave."
@ LDS
"Just, you need a permission if you wish to be still part of the custom union, or a a common market, etc. etc."
Absolutely. No referendum could offer anything but in or out because we can unilaterally leave and we were not being kicked out.
"You also need permission to delay the withdrawal beyond two years."
There is a slight get out clause that the 2 years is from handing in art50. Something which should only be done under the assumption of leaving the EU (as that is the point). So why didnt the remain PM Cameron preparing for the possible outcome and why hasnt our remain PM prepared in time (based on the article claiming the gov is not ready)? As you say it would require permission to delay withdrawal.
"And that implies negotiation. EU needed to negotiate especially because of EU citizens living in UK, and of course the economic implications."
The thing with negotiation is it is voluntary. The UK wanted to negotiate (some with pipe dreams e.g. May, Corbyn) but the EU set its explicit terms to be met before negotiation, and they were unacceptable to us. That isnt an accusation or blame against either the UK nor EU it just means no negotiation. Unfortunately May (remainer as we know) didnt accept that and so on it goes.
"What we abroad don't understand if the Brexiters plan was an "hard Brexit" from beginning"
It was pretty simple. We leave the EU and if they are willing to sort out a trade deal then excellent (for both sides) but we wanted to get out of the EU for various reasons. Some of us wanted to get away from the wreck of multiple self inflicted crises, or the ever closer union problem, or the imposition of an unelected government (unelected by us), the protectionism, etc. There are plenty reasons to want out as the EU is finding with various member countries increasingly voting for anti EU parties.
Some will have voted for racist reasons and some for globalist reasons, just the same as remainers. But not being taken over by the EU is a very important issue for people.
The main point I was making is that people complaining about how the government are handling brexit will be on both sides. But there is no misunderstanding by leavers that the PM is for remain and the gov is responsible for delivering on leaving the EU. Lack of preparation and such is squarely on the doorstep of those who dont seem to be willing to deliver on leave. The absolute base situation which brexiters in government seem to have grasped quickly is leaving without any deal, and anything better is just gravy. But remaining in the EU would be worse than leaving without a deal.
Biting the hand that feeds IT
