Reply to post: Re: Aaaand that's why I hate MAD.

Re: Aaaand that's why I hate MAD.

"I'll show you mathematicians who believe no error is possible - goes with the territory. I'll show you scientists (usually physicists) who believe no error is possible if you give me a little time."

The mathematicians would be right, if confining their opinions to specific cases. Two plus two does equal four. Math, especially since the days of Russell and Whitehead, has quite rightly made a big deal out of refining an understanding not only of what can be understood and defined, but also distinguishing the former from what may be inherently intractable or not even capable of clear definition.

So I'm not sure about those mathematicians you're going to show me. I'm even less certain about the physicists, most of whom are at least acquainted with quantum mechanical theory and are therefore arguably more leery of supposed absolute fact than engineers working in a largely Newtonian realm. (Engineers have the freedom to ignore all sorts of frightful quantum stuff that the physicists have helpfully renormalised for them.) In short, I think the first part of your statement is dubious at best, and some kind of inverted snobbery manufacturing strawmen at the worst.

That said, if you'd confined yourself to non-scientists—managers and politicians—you'd have been much nearer the mark. There are people who function in a political way, who end up not only in the sewer of politics but also in senior management, and they are frighteningly simplistic in their understanding of error and how probability works. This is because as well as being scientifically illiterate (and therefore, they barely constitute adults, in the modern world) they are third-rate minds who foster style over substance, spin over facts, and thrive on deceit and wishful thinking: usually buoyed on levels of hypocrisy most people would find nauseating.

I daresay the intertwined histories of Challenger and Columbia stand as perfect relatively recent examples of "Science-and-Engineering Meets the Idiots", though a dip into the story of the DC-10 is interesting too.