Reply to post: Re: I suspect there are quite a few Java devs out there

Q. What's today's top language? A. Python... no, wait, Java... no, C

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Re: I suspect there are quite a few Java devs out there

"So after 20 years you still suck, basically?"

He prefers other tools - I happen to share his viewpoint. I write Java where folks require it, but most new stuff is in Python by popular choice.

I undertook a fairly small greenfield project that demanded minimal runtime footprint & cost, JVMs were far more costly at runtime in time & space than the equivalent C++ code - and I did actually code up the core loops & profile them in Python/C++ & Java and measure the cost as honestly as possible. Also with the C++ solution we easier to validate from the security point of view - because we didn't have to delve into a bunch of opaque third party binaries - like the JVM for example. There was an absolute minimum of third party code - and the finished beast ran in a privilege-separation format - again much more natural to code in C/C++ than a JVM hosted language + runtime.

"Java isn't slow and the JVM allows you to write code in many languages not just Java."

It's a lot better than it was - but it's not the quickest either - the memory footprint alone means that the electrons are putting in more miles across the various databuses & memory arrays. When push comes to shove Physics will always be on the side of compact run-times.

Firing up a JVM is *slow* in comparison to a comparable bit of C/C++, regardless of the merits of whatever you've compiled into bytecode.

Having defended C/C++ a bit I have to point out that I write the majority of code in Python followed by Java - they have their strengths too, although I'd say Java is actually pretty much lumbering on by convention, toolchain & framework inertia. New stuff does tend to be Python for better or worse.

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