Reply to post: Re: shame

Re: shame

@ Ledswinger

Yup. Upvote from me. We really need some alternatives.

@ wolfetone

"A "no deal Brexit" is only a reality because"

The EU dictated it. In or out no half measure full stop oh and send a load of money over before any form of negotiation can be possible. The rights for citizens to remain are held up because the EU refuses to do it and we aint stupid enough to unilaterally agree to it (a mark against a few 'opposition' parties right there).

"But as with everything, in our every day lives, you can't just go to someone and say"

true but the wrong way around. The EU dictates they want money before any form of negotiation, and after saying they wont negotiate we are either in or out. If they cant handle this simple negotiation of their own club then why would we want them representing us on a world stage? The worst they can think of to do to us is no deal. For us no deal is a very good deal and a bad deal would be worse.

"It was The Daily Fail that started the whole "dragging us back to the 1970's" line"

If you want the Fail to get credit for spotting the economic disaster that is the Labour leak then ok.

"The country is in debt, and this country has spent 7 years in "austerity" in order to get out of the "deficit""

It has been in debt for a long time. And the overspending of labour gave us a deficit in the biggest boom etc due to 'no more boom and bust'. The EU is trying to climb out of a hole of its own making and shocked everyone by sacrificing countries instead of dealing with the problem of its currency. Shame this wonderful trading partner is trying to just keep its head above deflation. And yes the Tories were idiots for proposing a time frame like that, but then they are the same gov that rigged the referendum and threatened a punishment budget.

"The example, I know, sounds like a basis for class war but I don't mean it to be"

You get no argument from me. This is where alternatives to tory would be lovely. Maybe a range of views of how to proceed, after brexit.

"We can only deal with what we've seen, and for all of my working life I have worked in a country of austerity, by a government who really don't care about me"

You are very young then to have missed the labour gov. That was not a time of austerity it was a time of throwing money at any perceived problem, knee jerk reactions, bloating public sector and a belief that economics was a thing of the past so all go for the magic money tree. Something that led directly to the situation we are in. Give aways to buy votes only to upset people when they can no longer be afforded.

"Their polices haven't benefitted me yet I seem to be giving them more and more money or leeway to do what they want"

This is where I would hope a learning experience would improve the voter (assuming choice at election time) where we are paying now for the expenditure before. The money was spent by labour and you have already had the benefits of it. Now the bill is due. Dont feel too bad, we are all in the same boat and a few of us were warning of this for some time before the recession.

"So of course, if another party says "No more austerity, we're going to nationalise everything and keep the money inside the country" "

Its a great idea if you want to spend loads more money (increase debt) increase costs (deficit blow out again) and reduce tax intake. That means we get to pay even more and wont see any real improvements as the gov sucks at running these things. That money you dream of will be worthless and the bill will still be due.

"There's a lot of problems in this country, and we're a rich nation."

Yes. And economically competent options with varying ideas of proceeding would still leave us with problems but different ones and hopefully lesser ones.

"We shouldn't be having 3rd world problems like homelessness and child poverty"

Not 3rd world problems unfortunately. That is a misrepresentation of the reality (not accusing you, biased groups are very good at this). Also a lot of our housing problems dont come from a lack of money as in 3rd world, it comes from regulation. Literally choosing to have a housing problem.

"No one wants Russia-style communisim. We want fairness. "

Problem. Russian style communism can be argued as fair (as the communists do). There is no such thing as fair. Fair is a word that means nothing, nada, zilch. It is a dangerous word just like moral which also means nothing. Because they mean nothing they can be used to pull at heart strings for arguments on either side without the need to resort to reality, facts or tricky things like evidence. Fair will bankrupt a country, starve a country, kill people. But its ok because it is fair.