Facebook reviews smut policy after slave site uprising Facebook has announced it is actively reviewing its policy of a total ban on all content relating to sexual activities. The review follows the deletion on 4 February of Collared Events page following a complaint from a site user. This deletion angered and mystified many members and supporters of Collared, which operates Slaves …
"Simon, who runs Collared, told the Reg: "I feel that Facebook are in complete confusion on this issue.""
Drop the final three words and I'll be in complete agreement, Simon.
Does nobody know what ftp, IRC, email and Usenet are anymore? Why the heavy reliance on so-called "social" networking, when DIY internet sites are so easy to setup and maintain?
To answer my own Subject (not "Title", ElReg!), maybe I do ... ::sighs::
...complete confusion.
I mean, why is the exploration of human sexuality so repulsive, when all these religious groups spreading lies and missinformation are allowed to continue? (I mean, they can't ALL have the one true god, can they!)
The human race really does (IMHO) have its head up its rear end ... and then prevents itself from discussing said condition because it is too kinky!
Personally, I find all this talk about god and the divine extremely offensive.
Mine's the one with the studded collar in the pocket.
Why don't organisations such as this look to new ways of spreading their news -- rather than creating free content for and encouraging more people to join Mr Zuckerberg's money spinner?
I have no sympathy for anyone finding their content blocked on Facebook -- they have been quite clear, especially of late, that they don't give a damn about the content creators whose information they flog to the highest bidder or "accidentally" leave in plain site.
Most of my clients are small businesses with little or no in-house IT knowledge, and whilst they could get it together to put up a facebook page, even something as "simple" as choosing a web host, choosing some forum software, choosing moderators is going to be something they don't want to spend time on if they can manage it at all.
And you know, it's a lot easier to gain new users (and therefore new customers) on facebook than it is on your own forum.
Can we please stop sneering at people who have chosen different paths in life? Jocks vs Geeks ended when we left school.
This is not "... sneering at people who have chosen different paths in life?" it is pointing out to people that what they are doing is encouraging others to sign up to a parasitic website which feeds on personal data with the sole object being the gain of a man who calls the users of said site "dumb fucks" and "bitches".
This is about people making it almost necessary to use this service if you wish to keep in touch with them. If you know no better than to sell your own privacy down the river and use a service whose Ts and Cs are based on the caprice of a meglomaniac then that is fair enough. But with stories published virtually every day about this kind of thing, and the changes in privacy settings, then I'm not sure which rock you're living under.
If you do know what the problems with Facebook are then I'd say you're pretty unethical to suggest to anyone that they sign up with their real details (which they have to, or violate the Ts and Cs) or post any real information about them or their movements (which defeats the object).
'This is not "... sneering at people who have chosen different paths in life"'
Right, but you expect the IT-illiterate to run their own forums.
'the sole object being the gain of a man who calls the users of said site "dumb fucks" and "bitches".'
I'm fairly sure Ms Bee, Mr Orlowski and the rest of El Reg call us much worse things than that several times a day.
'This is about people making it almost necessary to use this service if you wish to keep in touch with them.'
Ah. You're one of those. Your friends all use facebook and you're not getting invited to parties anymore. Similar arguments were made for the mobile phone, the non-mobile phone, the letter box and the parish notice board. In fact, you can consider facebook to be an exact analogue of the parish noticeboard, replete with evil, lying megalomaniac running the whole show. Okay, so mySQL runs marginally faster than ten thousands monks, but I fail to see the new evil.
This is not your government with the power to incarcerate or kill you having access to the minutiae of your life.
'If you know no better than to sell your own privacy down the river and use a service whose Ts and Cs are based on the caprice of a meglomaniac then that is fair enough. But with stories published virtually every day about this kind of thing, and the changes in privacy settings, then I'm not sure which rock you're living under.'
I'm not living under a rock. Facebook are welcome to do whatever the fuck they like with the bilge I put on my facebook page. It's usually rants against idiots. Just like my elreg page.
Can you say "informed consent"?
'If you do know what the problems with Facebook are then I'd say you're pretty unethical to suggest to anyone that they sign up with their real details (which they have to, or violate the Ts and Cs) or post any real information about them or their movements (which defeats the object).'
When people ask my opinion on anything I give them the pros and cons. Clearly you're some kind of lying, sales-type arsehole who paints a one-sided view of things in order to manipulate those who trust you.
And ... uh ... I very explicitly mentioned small businesses. The article very explicitly mentioned a public group. Both of these need to be very honest about their details in order to gain new members and/or customers. Should my clients put fake contact details on their facebook pages? No. They want world+dog+zuckerberg to know exactly where they're hiding. Capiche?
It's not that hard.
Surely one person in their group knows his arse from an ethernet cable? Surely one of them has a kid who does? Surely one of them can use Google to find out? Surely one of them can ask for help from any of the numerous unemployed "web designers" who are practically working for free these days? Surely one of them has an ounce of drive and ambition? Surely there is someone who can get things done? Anyone?
Our ancestors built the fucking sewers and the underground system and the national grid and the rail networks. So don't you tell me that a forum is "too hard".
Do something for yourself once in a while, you never know, you just might like it.
It's NOT. THAT. HARD.
Don't sit around and cry when Mother Facebook won't let you suckle. It's pathetic. You owe it to yourself to have some dignity once in a while and LEARN how to do something.
So I take it that you live in a house built by yourself or someone you know, drive a car built by someone you know, grow your own vegetables and only eat meat you killed yourself?
None of these things are particularly difficult if YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT. There are even instructions on google if you look for them. The simple fact of the matter is that some people just are not that way inclined, they simply don't have the capacity to comprehend it. This is not a slight or a slur against those people, in the same way people don't get mocked for driving mass produced cars, living in mass produced houses or shopping in Tesco's. I know how to build websites and maintain forums. I hire a handyman when something goes wrong with my house, I hire a mechanic when something goes wrong with my car. These things may not be difficult to do, but I don't have the skills to do them.
Does that mean I'm a target for you?
That'll always be the dream.
Maybe more people would build their own houses if they had tens of thousands of pounds in disposable income and a couple of years free time. Unfortunately people are rarely that lucky.
People do however have a couple of free weekends a month, an internet connection, and a couple hundred quid lying around. Maybe not everyone, but a lot of people. And some of them could certainly understand how to FTP a zip file up to a webserver and extract. It's not like it was designed to be hard.
Besides, you seem to be forgetting that ordinary people DO sometimes build their own houses and cars. They have to be very lucky to be in a position where such a thing is possible, but "skill" is not the limiting factor. Money is.
We outsource projects primarily because it is cost effective to do so. But when you're talking about the cost of a small community website, you really aren't talking that much money at all. Certainly not if you split it a dozen ways.
You don't HAVE to do everything yourself, but when you are being censored by a corporation that doesn't care, you really SHOULD do it yourself. I hope you can understand the difference between that and "building your own car" (Which you would do BTW, if car manufacturers suddenly started telling you where to drive. Luckily they don't.).
Even if I decide not to use my skills to fix the car, or do some work in the house, I certainly don't go to any of the places whose names I can remember from endless adverts. I use small, local traders or friends who need a bit of money to do the work. They usually do a better job, tailor their approach to me, and appreciate the business. Hopefully, at the same time, we'll both have a bit of a laugh and enjoy the time spent together. That is why Facebook is not going to be on my list of bookmarks, ever, and I would rather hope others will come to that same conclusion.
"So I take it that you live in a house built by yourself or someone you know,"
I built this house, the foreman's house, the guest house, the field hand's quadraplex, the barns & outbuildings. I needed a little help with some of the larger roof beams in the covered arena ;-)
"drive a car built by someone you know"
I own several ground-up late 1960s Ford restorations, a couple of old British sports cars and several motorcycles. I usually have three or four projects underway ... Currently, I'm restoring a '64 1/2 Mustang Fastback, a '58 Harley, and a former SF Police Kz-1000-P. All the work, with the exception of finish paint, chrome and powder coating is done by myself.
"grow your own vegetables"
Of course, at least for the most part. Why everyone with the space doesn't is beyond me. Try it! It's easy! Even if you live in an apartment, I'll bet you a nickle that you can grow all your own herbs in a window. Walk around the block in your neighborhood ... How many fruit & nut trees go un-harvested?
"and only eat meat you killed yourself?"
Pretty much, yes. The three steers we raise each year are known as "Lunch", "Dinner" and "Supper". The two yearling hogs are "Ham" and "Porkchop". The ducks, chickens & piglets don't get names, and the sheep & goats are "the flocks" and "the herd".
We also make our own cheese (cow, goat and sheep), and butter, bake bread three times a week, and make our own wine and beer. The bees allow us to harvest honey. Etc. It's not exactly rocket science. People were feeding themselves for tens of thousands of years before they even knew what electricity was ... much less what time-sinks like facebook might be.
"Does that mean I'm a target for you?"
No. But I might be a target that you strive for ... Live a little!
You write "we" a lot, instead of "I".
So your family / commune / whatever is a microcosm of the macrocosm that others here are arguing against.
And I notice "we" don't make your own clothes, pottery, furniture, medicines, energy, books, etc, etc, all of which are easy enough, given as much training as correct usage of chmod (who on Earth was it suggested someone's kid be allowed to wield the Sword of Permissions??) requires.
"You write "we" a lot, instead of "I"."
The Wife & I are "we", and have been for a long time. You have a problem with that?
"So your family / commune / whatever is a microcosm of the macrocosm that others here are arguing against."
It's a horse ranch, primarily. We make use of the available property in other ways. You could make use of your property in other ways, too. Step away from the computer. Learn to compost.
"And I notice "we" don't make your own clothes"
We teach a "shearing to shirts and socks" class twice a year ... carding, spinning, making thread & yarn, dyeing, using a loom, sewing, knitting, etc ...
"pottery"
Our small kiln is on a cool-down cycle as I type ... The big one only gets fired up a couple times a year.
"furniture"
Most of the furniture in this house was built by my grandfathers, some by my father. I have built a few pieces myself, though, and I did all the finish work in the house ... more importantly, I'm teaching my nieces & nephews, and I taught my daughter. She built her own bedroom-set, much to the delight of her husband, when they were dating. She started the nursery set soon after they married ... and finished it during her first trimester about 18 months later. Finished it physically, that is ... Her hubby did the actual glue-up, staining & sealing, for obvious reasons, much to her own disgust :-)
"medicines"
Got me there. But then we tend toward being healthy. I don't even think there is a bottle of aspirin on the property, but we have Neosporin & Betadyne and Bandaids for nicks & scratches. I'm not against modern meds (the "holistic" set need their minds examining), but we rarely need them. We do have banamine (flunixin in Blighty) on hand at all times for our one horse who is prone to colic (the Wife is a CVT, amongst other things ... and the local Vet trusts her).
"energy"
This place is built to be energy independent. We're not; at any given time I have upwards of 3,000 gallons of vehicle fuel on hand, and enough electricity to power a small village. However, roughly four times a year, we go completely "self contained", nothing but wood & steam and Clydesdales for a week or two. It's part of our "at risk kids" camp. (Exception is my machine room & office ... The computers help pay for some things that are money-sinks that wouldn't exist in a real "off the grid, and no mod-cons" scenario. Like food for a couple dozen exhausted & starving teenagers for a couple weeks ::grins::).
"books"
I own a Heidelberg Windmill (Platen). It can be manually operated, sans electricity. And sometimes is, when teaching printing (see "kids", above). I am currently building a dog-powered wheel for it ... Our Rottweiler loves his "hamster wheel" exercise track :-)
"etc, etc, all of which are easy enough, given as, much training as correct usage of chmod (who on Earth was it suggested someone's kid be allowed to wield the Sword of Permissions??) requires."
OK. And your point? Mine is that most folks waste large quantities of time that could be more proactively spent making their own lives more comfortable.
... on which planet is there enough room for all of us to live on a horse ranch?
My point currently, is that not everyone has the luxuries you do. Some of us have to live near the factories that make the bandaids you require.
Note: "bandaid" is a stand-in for all the manufactured things in your life that you're not being mindful of in your smug little argument.
Welcome to the Apple sword-of-damocles world Facebookers :) Of course, the "Simple. Don't use Facebook" comment is utter rubbish, for the same reason "Simple. Don't use Apple" is: it won't stop anyone. Well, that and it's not entirely feasible anyway: both Apple (yes), and Facebook offer merit in there wares. If that merit is worth having said proverbial sword looming over one's self is another matter altogether.
I don't use Facebook, Twitter or MySpace, the circle of friends I have only one them uses Facebook, we have these things call mobile phones. I do use Apple kit as I have desktops at home, but no iPhone or iPad.
I don't visit McDonalds, Burger King or KFC ever, haven't set foot in any of them for 9 years now purely on priniciple. I don't use Shell or Esso garages, I'd rather go another 15 miles to another garage to get fuel.
It's easy to stick to principles you just have to have some will-power and not be herded like a daft ruminant.
The other is, facebook offers an infrastructure that offers a lot of quick and easy exposure and an easy way to get a lot of people connected to your site's news updates and such.
And its still a lot easier to make a facebook page instead of installing and configuring your own forum software.
They don't want their own meeting place. They want to be in everyone's meeting place.
Note this.... "In this case, we were picked off because a rival club wanted to poach our members".
So facebook provides an advantage over hosting their own site (which they probably do anyway) and their rival club wanted this advantage to themselves. If one club is able to set up on facebook with it's easier access etc etc then they are more likely to attract members than a club with no facebook page.
Collared are blocked from the "market place" that is facebook and this is a negative from their members prespective so are looking for the social interaction facebook offers.
You're missing the point.
I have a website for my business selling leather bondage gear, it hosts my catalogue, lets people by products etc.
What it does *not* do is supply the sort of contact linking and "like" functionality available to Facebook users and for me to try to emulate that would be massively expensive and time consuming.
I don't want to have to re-invent the wheel and create the Affordable Leather Products Social Networking site when there's something already available out there, but neither do I want to spend time and effort setting such a site up (something which I had been considering) if I can suddenly and without warning or explanation, find all that work wiped out because one person has complained to Facebook that they don't like what I do.
Facebook just need to engage in some form of consistency in their decision making, something which sadly appears to be lacking right now.
if people are too narrow minded about collaring they shouldnt read the material ,i am into bdsm and collering i am a collared slave i have been into bdsm for many years it is a way of life . so if any one thats upset about reading such things why the hell do you read it .you know what it is so why dont you read other articals like gardening and cookery and let like minded people get on with ower lives .............
And the person who hosted the collared page in question, it was a rival group trying to poach members, that complained. So it was like minded people complaining about like minded people, or something, I guess...
Not that Facebook shouldn't get its act together... but steam-rolling over the problems they create for smallish groups is a shortcoming of most large corps, not just fb.
I can see where the previous comments are all coming from, however I think whatever your personal opinions of Facebook, it is in an inevitable feature of the world we live in that social networking sites are an essential tool in the arsenal of public organisations.
Maybe if MORE groups acted like "Collared" actively kicked out at Zuckerberg and co. then it might actually make the website less of a confused shambles, and more a happy social network in its purest form.
This post has been deleted by its author
However much the haters keep hating Facebook (or Google/Microsoft. et al), it's not going to go away. It's success is down to being a), free and b), piss easy to use. For the average Joe it supplies all they need to advertise themselves to the world and to feel wanted, and if it means that Facebook tells thousands of marketing men that user A likes Jodie Foster's thighs, drinking fermented yak milk, and rolling in gorse bushes dressed in gingham then that's the price they are prepared to pay - assuming they're aware of said price, after all how many people ever bother to read T&C's when they join a site or install a bit of software?
That someone managed to get something deleted off Facebook. I've reported spam reviews and spam postings (which can't be hidden) and obvious fake profiles used to do nothing but spam and they stay there.
The only thing FB usually seem to do is delete applications if their very buggy "bot" decides that they are "spammy" - and there is no review or appeals process.
This article is coherent and balanced, and has informational content.
Most of the replies lack these attributes, plus many indicate very clearly that the author either did not read or did not comprehend the article's content.
Facebook is on shaky ground, as they are enforcing a moral policy, rather than their stated policy. IMHO the stated policy is fine while Facebook's actual behaviour (apparently) is very inappropriate, simply because it is arbitrary and clearly at odds with its clear policy. The "sexual" aspect is largely irrelevant - they are implementing moral arbitration, something I do not believe they are competent to do (if indeed anyone is), and trying to do so is a very slippery slope.
Of course, the sweet irony is that Facebook was founded upon the very premise that it would help people get laid.
/rant
As a non-US citizen, one tires of the endless obsession of US corporations, legislative and judicial bodies, people etc. of trying to eliminate the simple fact that sex exists, in all its gloriious and inglorious forms. The three monkeys springs to mind.
It is very difficult to legislate effectively against sex.
It is very difficult to legislate against pubescent juveniles getting horny, and wanting to do something about it.
It is very difficult to legislate against what consenting adults might get up to behind closed doors.
OK. Canada and Wyoming try, but let's face it. It is a losing battle and the sooner Americans and organizations like Facebook get over themselves and their misplaced prudishness and total denial of the glorious thing that is human sexuality, the better the world will be.
Sexually frustrated individuals are dangerous individuals!
/rant end
Paris: Because she understands the basic premise.
Dweeb
...that, as animals, we possess a little something called "instinct" (I know, the Church doesn't like to talk about it since it doesn't like to think of humans as animals, but how else can you explain the similarities)? The desire for the opposite sex and so on is mostly down to the instinctual need to reproduce. Somewhere in there is probably also the knowledge of what it takes to do the job. After all, it doesn't take any parental coaching for most other animals to figure it out. It's just that our base of knowledge tends to provide the concrete know-how a little quicker.
"It is very difficult to legislate against what consenting adults might get up to behind closed doors.
OK. Canada and Wyoming try ..."
Why bring Canada into this? As far as I know Canada did not introduce the extreme porn law (without defining exactly what extreme porn is) or the concept of strict liability for possession of other types of porn. And isn't urinating in public in the UK enough to get you on the sex offenders list?
What happened? Did you get caught with a suitcase full of porn mags at Canada/ US customs?
"Canada & Wyoming" were just two random places. I mean seriously, chill out.
The point is that most places have bizarre (usually quite dated) sex offence laws on their books that are randomly and innectively enforced, if at all. Primarily because they are pointless "blue blankets" for the terminally obsessed god squaddies who see it as their lives' meaning to try to suppress all sexuality from society.
Do some research and find out in how many countries/states it is illegal to give your wife a "back shelf" poke, with a jail term as punishment attached. That was Canada, wasn't it?
Since I am not from the UK, I rather agree with you about the ridiculousness of the recent "think of the children" motivated, pointless cencorship and other related laws.
As for Canda, I have in fact been denied entrance to Canada in Calgary, and deported at the Canadian governments expense directly to Chicago from whence I had come. It's a long story, for another time ...
Dweeb
Actually, 'back shelf pokes' as you so colourfully describe them were legalized in 1969 - about the same time as in your native Illinois. (I note that a whole swathe of the southern USA caught up in 2003). So, no, that was not Canada.
And as far as goes my rather limited knowledge of kink play in the land of the maple leaf, I think the general rule here is that it's okay so long as it does not frighten the horses. So if you are going to select random examples, you might as well choose ones that make your point.
I'll take that beer though, and here's one to console you for when the Blackhawks don't make the play-offs!
>obsession of US corporations, ... trying to eliminate the simple fact that sex exists
Of course we are making the assumption that Americans are the result of sex.
Given the obvious physical and mental differences between American's and their human neighbours to the north - it is entirely possible that they are another species, probably alien.
If Americans actually reproduce by eating their own weight in hamburgers and then divide like amoebas then they would find the whole sexual reproduction business strange and disgusting.
This also explains the appearance of so many of them - next time you see a fat American don't laugh - ask when the happy day is.
"If Americans actually reproduce by eating their own weight in hamburgers and then divide like amoebas then they would find the whole sexual reproduction business strange and disgusting."
I busted out laughing at this - witty, intelligent and highly amusing. Thank you, Y.A.A.C. It also explains a lot ;-)
To all those shouting about how easy it is to setup your own / site / forum whatever. You are completely missing the point.
99 times out of 100 these guy's and gal's have no interest in anything to do with IT, what they want is something to allow them to interact about the stuff they do enjoy rather than have the hassle of running a site / forum.. which I'm sure you've all done because I'm sure you all know that the setting up is the smallest part of the problem, the actual work , and I can assure you it does indeed distract from the reason you wanted the site in the first place, is the running of said site.
Things like FB take most of that pain away.
So if all you inverted snobs could just for once get your heads out of your arses and actually READ the article and understand the points being made rather than slag FB / Collared et all for not building their own all singing /dancing web portals.
Comentards? christ there are some dickheads on this site.
to suggest them running their own site. And I have read the article.
Now if they have problems with FB, and other FB users, what are they going to do?
FB said "Go away," to them, for whatever reason. So do they just whinge and whine in the corner? Do they try (very probably unsuccessfully) to get their group reinstated, or do they move on?
Running their own site / forum is a reasonable alternative. The cost of hosting is minimal, forum software can be downloaded easily. The basic setup is quick. Yes, there is a maintenance overhead, but that is also true when running a FB group.
I am also aware that not everybody wants to get involved with the technical aspects of running a site. However, there is always that 1 in the 100 who is. And in any large(ish) group of people, whatever there narrow area of specific interest, there will be one or two able to do this job. And quite often for free.
And nowhere has anyone suggested that any group should build their own "all singing /dancing web portals." Quite often a simple forum is all that's needed. Usenet worked very well for years. And is still used by a number of 'special interest groups'. That doesn't have FB's "bells and whistles." FB seems to be used just because its FB. Not because it has any special or unique functionality that these groups cannot do without.
"Comentards? christ there are some dickheads on this site." Yes, there are, aren't there.
@AC Monday 21st February 2011 17:06 GMT- while fetlife.com is good, there is a certain sense of "non-hiding" that goes with having a BDSM group on FB. Not to mention the ease of keeping up-to-date with all one's social group and gossip, even if some beat each other from time to time.
BDSM is just another special interest group, like flyweight boxing or australian abseiling. But it can overtly involve sex, which does seem to scare the pants off the powers-that-be.
Outside the geek bubble, ordinary people, civilians we'll call them, don't have any idea what FTP, usenet or even an OS is. FB represents the absolute limit of their abilities online and when they manage to use it on a mobile device too, they're in heaven. Many people simply don't have the capacity, time or desire to develop their knowledge beyond that point. If FB is a workable solution, then it is sensible for them to use it.
I forget what age children are supposed to start to realise that not everyone thinks the same way as they do. I guess it comes later for geeks.
FB is useful up to a point. Because it is so large, they want to mechanise as much of it as possible. To do this they will simplify their procedures. They will have a hard time doing this, not least because Americans will sue the arse off anyone at the slightest provocation. Expect issues like this to become one of the few spectator sports you don't have to pay to view.
Eventually, they may implement an 18+ zone for some content (the equivalent of the .xxx TLD). If they had set the joining-up age at 18 rather than 13, they would have had less of a problem.
I suspect most wealthy, young and arrogant tech CEOs regard their users as 'dumb fucks'.
But either way that Facebook moves they'll have to face the wrath from either an individual, an organization or a government group. This is a problem with the idea of the "internet", that its users want it to be an uncensored library of information thats shared freely.
Its going to be tough for Facebook to come up with a policy that pleases with world (Facebook users) + advertisers (which is probably why they are reviewing the entire scope of their sexual content policies). Will the policies be region based? If its allowed, how much is too much per region? And thats just the super superficial questions that go into that. I could see a company just banning it all together so they don't have to deal with these logistical issues, which will have them in court one way or the other.
Some? None? or All? Either way, there will be pitchfork and fire carrying mobs no matter which they way go.
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