back to article Bold as brass metal thieves disrupt rail, comms, electric

The growing threat from metal theft – and the no-nonsense response by authorities determined to stamp it out – were highlighted yesterday as jail sentences of three years apiece were handed down to two Newark men convicted of stealing 25 metres of copper cabling worth just £44. The value of the metal involved may seem trivial …

COMMENTS

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  1. keith 9
    Pint

    Sounds like a good time

    To replace all that expensive copper with nice fast fibre-optics :)

    1. kororas
      Go

      Thats....

      ok for comms, but id love to see electricity traveling by light.

    2. Mark Olleson
      FAIL

      Traction

      Good luck using fibre-optic cables for traction power. Power cables are the ones really worth stealing, although they're probably so heavy that special handling equipment will be needed to pinch any length of it.

      I suspect that lots of signalling cable is already fibre optic, but does the kind of low-life who steals signalling cable know the difference before they rip it out?

  2. Shane Orahilly
    Headmaster

    Earl.

    Cease this nonsense forthwith.

    "worth just £44."

    "at a total cost of £75,000"

    "£35m since 2006/7"

    "reached a low of $3,000/tonne"

    "breaking the $10,000/tonne barrier."

    Please, standardise the currency expression throughout articles. Yes, international market prices are in USD and local costs are in £Sterling, but is it really too much effort to maintain the use of one or the other exclusively (or both together using parantheses for the alternative expression) over 6 paragraphs? You underestimate the laziness (and pickiness) of some of your devoted readers!

    With regards to the actual story, it's good to see some of these idiots getting put away for a decent stretch. The impact (and safety risk) of such thefts is exponentially greater than the material gain. The only better result we could possibly hope for is that one of these morons tries to lift a live 400kV line or gas main. Instant Justice, served very hot indeed.

    1. Jon 52

      units

      It is more accurate to use the native figures as you do not need to apply exchange rates of the exact time the figure was quoted. If you want to look up the excahgne rate go ahead. But the costs were to Britain, and orignally calculated in £. The market rates are always in $ and in some ways are a different unit.

    2. Is it me?

      Don't worry

      The morons have and have suffered in consequence, and been mown down by trains as they nick signalling cable as well.

      http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/man_electrocuted_in_burglary_1_214367

      They also can't tell the difference between fibre and copper cable.

      Mind you when the likes of EDF say they are worried thieves electrocuting themselves...

      http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/local/metal_thieves_risk_their_lives_1_626848?

      well..

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    QED

    So:

    the government bails out the banks with 200 billion of "quantitive easing" so they can reduce the ratio of money they have created vs money they've received to something slightly closer to sanity, and then start lending to UK companies at reasonable rates;

    the banks think, hang on, the government are holding the interest rate we pay at 0.5%, so we can boost our holdings quite enough by lending at 5 to 7%, which frees up all that QE money for us to make more profits with, meaning higher bonuses & trebles all round;

    but, the property market is still stuffed with unrealistic asset prices, so where can we make quick money this time ?

    ah, commodity markets, banks get special treatment there (e.g. no cap on how much we bet).

    Your tax money at work.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Jobs Horns

    The program of atomic fingerprinting the metal.....

    The metals and their alloys ALL contain very fine amounts of allying materials and they all have assorted isotopical variations on the alloys and where the metals were sourced from.

    It's basically the same as fingerprinting the metal.

  5. Only wankers enable all the spam option by default on new user sign ups
    Flame

    Tough network there.....

    This story sounds like an example of the blame game, that bullshit that rules work places, politics, and justice. In the blame game, no matter how complex something is, all consequences can be laid totally at the feet of one individual. For example in the corporate world, the feet are usually the most poorly paid of all involved.

    > The value of the metal involved may seem trivial, but the consequence was definitely not.

    > Network Rail claimed this single theft led to some 36 trains being fully or partially cancelled

    > and a further 115 delayed – at a total cost of £75,000 to the operating companies.

    At the end of the day, if Network Rail's network was dependent on 25m of copper, 44UKP worth, then they are to blame for the canceled trains as much as the thieves. How unresilient to damage must the rail network be if one incident can cause such problems? The reality of the world is that theft happens, so for NR to enable it such that 1 theft can have such knock-on effects.... well, NR are not fit for purpose. Though let's be honest, the purpose that public transport was privatised was to make cronies of the government rich.

    Right, just tried to look up their share price over the years..... Network Rail are a limited company: they are totally privately owned.

    Not a PLC would be a panacea, but NR being totally private explains why so many stations don't actually have any competition when it comes to food, drinks, shops, etc.. I wonder how many involved with NR are also involved with buses? Once you have those two in control, you can jack the prices up so they are close to what it costs to run a car!

    NR saved at least 44UKP from their costs by not having a spare parts to hand or the staff to fix it fast, which the owners no doubt rejoiced over, but constant trimming of fat means that there isn't the needed buffer for some events that are inevitable.

    NR could save more money by removing all locks anywhere in stuff they own, and sell the locks and keys for scrap. Because theft is illegal, if anything happens as a consequence of there being no locks then it can't be NR's fault. Just like this theft of Cu.

    That is what the blame game says, and that is why it is bollocks. Do not play that game, do not engage with people when they try to. They use lots of logical fallacies to get people to go along with them, false dilemmas are the most common. Learn to recognise them, and call people out when they use them.

    Of course, that 75000 figure will be the mathematical maximum the op co's could have made to make the thieves look as bad as possible (and hence make the company appear to be poor, damaged little victims. Like a kitten that has wondered onto a motorway. Companies are not people, they cannot actually be hurt, they are a truck to the kitten in the preceding analogy). The op co's will have assumed that the trains were full to capacity, all customers bought the most expensive option of ticket (a single, no rail cards or discounts, no pre-bookings, etc.). In reality, the trains would have been mostly empty (or over capacity), there would be very few ticket nazis on the trains, so many people will not have paid at all, those that have paid will seek to get their prices as low as possible.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      RE: Tough network there....

      Network Rail is a not for dividend company whose profits should go straight back into investment in the rail network. It was set up by the previous government to replace the hopelessly inept Railtrack the plc set up by the government before that to squeeze all the money out of the network, neglect track maintenance and cause a number of rail disasters. OK that may not have been the intention but it certainly was the result.

      Oh and Network Rail only runs the stations and track, they don't set the fares. Or employ any "ticket nazis" that would be the train operators, most of whom have shareholders and thus dividends to pay.

    2. Shane Orahilly
      Grenade

      Baron.

      "Right, just tried to look up their share price over the years..... Network Rail are a limited company: they are totally privately owned."

      Totally privately owned by the State, I think you'll find. All NR "profits" are re-invested into NR. Income is from the DfT by form of grant, Train Operating Companies (TOCs) for their rights of access to the network, lease/rent of properties (including the shops at stations). In effect, it's a government office which has been spun off the chancellor's books, but is still under the government's control.

      If you would like to suggest a method of funding redundant backup signalling systems for the entire rail network without having to resort to massive increases in fares or taxation, and also without taking more money away from paying for sorely-needed additional rolling stock to enable the extension of overfull trains to deal with a demand that far outstrips supply, I'm sure HMG will be most grateful to receive it. However, your total lack of knowledge of anything rail-related is going to make that unlikely.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Flame

      estimate probably cautiously low

      The £75,000 estimated loss by the train operating companies resulting from the number of trains stated as cancelled and delayed struck me as being cautious. Apart from other costs caused by delaying journeys of long suffering passengers, many of these delayed passengers will have been able to claim refunds. Special busses would have had to have been provided, and in some cases passengers missing connections would have had to have been accomodated in hotels overnight.

      That number would have been the claimable loss to the TOCs but is probably only a fraction of the true cost to the travelling public. So, getting locked up for a very long time seems fair punishment to me. Leaving one or 2 of the fried corpses of metal thieves who electrocuted themselves visible on the sides of the tracks for a few days before cleaning up the mess would also discourage any others interested in trying their hand. But perhaps our society has become too scared of the sight of human remains for such an idea to be realistic.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      I've no doubt that network rail could change their processes

      but that avoids and ignores the basic thievery of time and materials that is going on!

      The overall cost is substantially more than £75044 when lost productivity is factored in. If it is required that NR change then who will make the investment and at real what cost. The taxpayer and the user, not the thief of the scrap metal merchants.

      I'd much prefer to see those who steal and those who fence the stolen materials get punitively hammered to deter the commission and continuation of the thievery. If that means a little more form filling then the (private) scrap metal industry will either pass the costs one or weed out the idiots who permit this larceny to continue.

      BTW, the trains that go through Newark often have a high occupancy or pick up a lot of other passengers further south at they make their journey to/from London. They are often used by people, like me, heading to important commercial meetings set up to bring people from all over Europe together or home to their families after a very testing day/week/month away. Their journey is screwed up because some thieving git is prepared to risk getting electrocuted for £44.

    5. Paul 4

      ticket nazis

      Two words that tell everything for anyone who CBA to read all your waffle.

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Rant of the week?

      I think we all feel a bit like this from time to time. Deal with it ;-)

    7. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      What?

      "At the end of the day, if Network Rail's network was dependent on 25m of copper, 44UKP worth, then they are to blame for the canceled trains as much as the thieves"

      Ok, hows about this: Take the spreader bar off a set of points, probably about a fiver's worth of metal scrap value, if that. If noticed, this will stop the line while it is replaced, parts coming from the nearest depot. Probably coming via car, becuase the track has been stopped, it will also precipitate checking all the points in the same area. If it's not noticed and a train goes over the points at high speed, you'll be looking at tens possibly hundreds of deaths.

      There is no way to check to see if a spreader bar is present, other than visaully by either walking the track or using a video equiped inspection train, however if some scrote steals this seemingly small piece of kit for a bit of cash the consequences are frightening.

      The main point is that it's utterly irrisponsible to steal from the railway, it puts lives at danger.

    8. Jon 52

      its not a case of £44 unit

      If they had laid 2 wires along the track for a cost of £88 then the theives would have just doubled their profits.

      When our signalling cable was stolen they got it working again in less than a day. That is Discover fault in morning, run some tests remotely, find send crew out to see why failed, crew measure how much wire is missing crew call back that wire is missing, send another crew with skills and materials to fix wire, fix wire, test wire, check safety, get trains and crews back to where they should be.

      Also should not just look at cost. If I took six £0.20 bolts of the hub of your car even with triple redudency then your car would be useless until you fix it.

      I hate train ompanies as much as the next guy being on southeastern, but this is one fault that should lie with the theif not the network.

      1. Is it me?

        Depends which 25m

        I think that modern SSI signalling systems are redundantly cabled, and indeed use fibre as well, but if you nick the 25m of cable from the control cabinets to the signal heads on a gantry, well it wouldn't matter how diverse your routing was. Also it would only take one signal head to go faulty on a main-line to cause an awful lot of disruption.

        I believe Network Rail are dong as much as they can to replace copper with fibre over long distances, but it costs millions to to re-configure a signalling system, and check that it has all been re-installed correctly, remember Clapham.

  6. JeffyPooh
    Pint

    Cu $2500 / ft^3

    As soon as I read that copper was $10,000 per tonne, I raced to calculate the value of a copper penny (Canada/US).

    About 2 to 3 cents each.

    But, the latest versions have only a trace of copper. The older ones from the 1980s and previous were virtually 100% copper, and are thus worth more as copper than cash.

    By the way, this steep price rise is going to have obvious impacts on the economics of electric vehicles. I assume that 100hp worth of electricity requires some serious conductors.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Go

      Yup

      US ones are mostly zinc these days - one of the many useless stats I got from the West Wing.

      What's ironic is when you consider the name of it. Given the US (and Canada) use cent, not penny, it's odd that they've "borrowed" the UK name in the singular, but not the plural.

  7. John Dougald McCallum
    Grenade

    Metal theives

    Or should I call them sabatours it is time and beyond time that the Courts got real with these scumbags three years is not long enough compaired to the ammount of disruption they cause.

    Hand grenade cos its the only metal I'd trust them with.

  8. Crazy Operations Guy
    WTF?

    Converting to alumin(i)um?

    Didn't we just spend the last few decades converting to copper from alumin(i)um because it is unsafe? I also have been wondering why metal thieves haven;t just been called domestic terrorists yet.

  9. Baron Von Anonymous
    Badgers

    Subterranean Homesick Tea Leaves

    I know that Virgin Media have had a number of fibre optic cables badly damaged recently. The suspicion is that thieves believe them to be copper until they've got them out the ground. Obviously they aren't going to hang around and apologise, but it's still a bloody pain.

    <dailymail>I blame the poor state of science education! </dailymail>

    [Badgers because they live under the ground too.]

  10. Harry

    "consequences of this particular theft were said to be "vast""

    But not vast enough, apparently, to invest in adequate security precautions -- which, come to think of it, could have been done fairly cheaply by passing a monitoring current through the length of the track.

    1. Stoneshop
      FAIL

      @Harry

      Do you think they'd be monitoring *unused* track?

    2. SImon Hobson Bronze badge
      FAIL

      Eh ?

      >> But not vast enough, apparently, to invest in adequate security precautions

      And what would you do when trying to protect cables that run across open countryside for hundreds/thousands of miles ?

      Actually Network Rail HAVE been doing something. For some works they've taken to putting cable ducts underneath the track bed - so buried a full metre down under the ballast and tracks !

      And as to the retard who said it's Network Rail's for not having resiliance. Well words fail me. Ther emay be resiliance at some parts of the network, but this is kinda point-point networking. The signal box needs to talk to the signal - but the signal doesn't need to talk to anything else. So what do you propose ? Whilst it would be physically possible (but very expensive) to arrange backup routes, it would also be largely useless since compromised signalling is not something you can ignore !

      It only needs one signal out of action and traffic will stop. Yes they will have some contingency plans (just like there are procedures for single line working) but I'd expect a significant reduction in track capacity - and at peak times there is no slack.

  11. thecakeis(not)alie

    Here's a thought. It's crazy, but...

    ...how about addressing the social problems that lead people to be desperate enough to attempt stealing LIVE ELECTRICAL CABLE in the first place? You know, things like job creation, harsher onshoring/offshoring/rightshoring/fuck-you-shoring laws? How about social services with a liveable minimum wage and a move back towards a fully fleshed-out economy with manufacturing and industry located within your own bloody borders instead of farmed out to whomever rapes and pillages their own countrymen most?

    If people weren’t starving and completely unable to get work, you would probably see these incidents dropping significantly. You’ll never erase such things entirely, but most people do these kinds of things out of desperation – NOT GREED. Sort your ****ing country out. Don’t waste time and money on pointless crackdowns and enforcement. Every dollar you spend oppressing your people or making life more difficult for businesses is a dollar that could have been /better/ spent on social services, job creation and scio-economic and political reform.

    *sigh*

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      we are dealing with it!

      We gave the metal thieves an ASBO that stipulates absolutely no stealing for 3 months.

      Job done.

      1. Paul 4

        Not the US

        "If people weren’t starving and completely unable to get work, you would probably see these incidents dropping significantly."

        Since were civilised we don't leave people to starve, but no matter what you do some people will still resort to crime. Were not talking about shop lifting here.

    2. Apocalypse Later

      Social problems addressed

      I thought the "social problems" in this story were rather well addressed by the sentences. Should encourage other "desperately poor" people to leave our infrastructure alone. How do these "desperately poor" people transport their stolen cables, in a stolen car?

      Nobody starves in the socialist wonderland that Britain has become.

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Down

      Re : thecakeis(not)alie

      What!?, But, just WHAT!!!???

      Have you ever been in a Chav palace? I wish I could have afforded the stuff that unemployed neighbours of mine have. Their car is even better than the 5 year old thing I drive.

      42 inch flat screen TV, play stations and X-boxes. Ipods for all the kids and a mobile for the youngest (8yo.) And all of this is paid for out of my taxes!

      Don't talk about starving people in the UK! Unable to work? When we have half of Europe coming here to work. there is work but the lazy bastards won't do it.

      These thefts are based on greed only. Pure and simple greed.

      I think it's about time you grew an IQ.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Megaphone

        "I wish I could have afforded the stuff that unemployed neighbours of mine have."

        You say that, and yet I don't see you quitting your job to go on the dole...

        I think people who say things like that should either quit their job or shut up. After all, it's money for nothing isn't it? And you DO have the option to take it. Simply stop working and get yourself diagnosed with something. If it was such a great life you would do it right now.

        So the toerags have a large telly and a few iPods, wow so what do they do all day? Play GTA4 and watch Jeremy Kyle in high def? What a shit life.

        For all their worldly so-called possessions, rented from the state, they will never be free like the working man, because they simply cannot afford real freedom. Anyone who says they envy that is either a fool or a liar.

        /my 2 cents

        1. Wommit
          Thumb Down

          Re : AC @ 13:46

          "You say that, and yet I don't see you quitting your job to go on the dole..."

          You see there's a small problem with that. Because I served in the RN for twenty years, and had my health fucked up for life I now have a small pension. It's not enough to live on but it is enough to stop me getting any and all of the benifits that others are getting.

          There was a time, nearly a year, that I was unemployed. I received £35 per week and that was it. I ended up selling stuff so my family could eat. I actually suggested to my wife that she leave me, taking the kids, as _they_ would be looked after.

          So I've tried 'putting up' as you've suggested. It nearly cost me everything.

          Now, how about you following the other half of your advice.

    5. Intractable Potsherd

      @thecakeis(not)alie

      I'm going to put the same comment as some of the others, but in a far more appropriate way: In the UK, there is no need for anyone to starve. We have a good, comprehensive system of social care that, in the USA, would be regarded as fantasy.

      Unlike some others who seem to be from my country, I am extremely proud of that fact.

  12. SirTainleyBarking
    Stop

    Target the scrap yards

    Much more cost effective. For too long some of these businesses have turned a blind eye to where the metal has come from. The same goes for yards accepting obviously nicked vehicles and slamming them in the crusher before the police can identify them..

    Make the yards more cautious, and with no market for the metal, the incentive to nick it will be severely curtailed

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Surely some mistake...

    A sentence based on the impact of the offence? It's almost as if the judge applied logic.

  14. Demosthenese

    However, the real cost lies in the risk to those involved...

    No, it doesn't. Their loss is society's gain.

  15. Dick Emery
    Stop

    A title is required

    Just think. BT could make a fortune selling off their old copper network! They could use the profits to create a shiney new fibre network!

    And pigs might fly of course.

  16. Anonymous Coward
    FAIL

    What goes around comes around

    Now ACPO want registration of scrap metal dealers, funny they didn't say anything when the last labour government repealed the scrap metal dealers act which required all scrap dealers to be registered and keep transaction details.

  17. newtonslife
    Stop

    Tracks going missing?

    People have been stealing metal from roofs for years, if BR ran more trains, I think that would deter the the thieves somewhat.

    1. Stoneshop
      FAIL

      @newtonslife

      They were just about to. It was a disused section NR was planning on bringing back into service.

    2. Is it me?

      More trains isn't the problem.

      Railway lines run cable in nice concrete ducts alongside the tracks, with handy plastic tubes under the rails to make removal and replacement quick, easy and low cost. Thus a bunch of lads in High Viz jackets on the lineside can wip the cable out between trains.

      In BR days drivers always knew where work gangs would be, but do you want to bet in todays fragmented system that they don't and gangs turn up unannounced to the train drivers.

      Even if the driver does contact the signalling centre to report the gang, they would be off before BTP could get there, all trains have cab radio nowadays. The signalling centre knows instantly a signal develops a fault, so you can guess how long it takes a response to get to a site in the middle of nowhere. Signals are positioned for the convenience of trains, not road access.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    scumbags

    lock 'em up and sell the key for scrap metal.

  19. Anton Ivanov

    Welcome to Bulgaria

    I feel like I am in Bulgaria circa 1991. Really. Not joking.

    I nearly broke my leg in the middle of downtown Sofia a block away from plod central and a couple of blocks away from the parliament. Some b***rd removed the drain covers to sell them for scrap.

    I remember the first time BTK (the local telecom) put some fiber for FTTC in the ground. They actually put stickers on it "fiber, not copper, pointless to steal". When it got stolen they found a note which said "we have to check".

    Oh well, that is the joy of unified Europe. It goes both ways.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      or to Romania

      I was so happy when I read this article that it was not about Romanian citizens. Unfortunately, in our country this happens quite often (stealing railway cables, stealing drain covers or anything that may be made of copper). At least they learned by now that fiber is not made of copper.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Not just eastern europe...

      Two weeks ago the very middle class enclave of Henley-On-Thames had most of it's drain covers nicked overnight on one side of town. As for clamping down on it I think you'll mind metal theft is closely related to the size of the local Pikey population.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        It must have been shocking.

        Nearly as shocking as your use of the apostrophe.

  20. WonkoTheSane
    FAIL

    Stealing LIVE power lines?

    That's a Darwin award right there

  21. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    about time!

    I'm getting fed up of turning up at my local paintball site, only to find someone has driven a JCB through the fence overnight, and used it to dig several miles of trenches all over to steal the old cabling, causing the site to become unsafe, and therefore cancelling the game!

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Alien

    Intel Inside-Job

    I've suddenly realised what's behind all these metal and cable thefts of late. It's clearly an Intel conspiracy theory to force everyone over to wireless so that it can sell more Wi-Fi hardware.

    Obvious when you think about it.

  23. Martin Milan

    Sense? From ACPO???

    ACPO are not my favourite organisation (hey - I like liberty...), but they're not so far off the mark with this one. I would have concerns about senior police officers having the power to directly close buisnesses, but they're on the right lines (pun intended).

    What's needed really are two things.

    First of all, scrap metal dealers should be licensed, and rather than doing this at a buisness level, it should be done at the individual level - much as the security industry is governed today. This prevents the buisness simply doing a pre-pack, and opening up as a new buisness, with a whole new identity, the following week.

    The scrap dealers are one place to focus your efforts, because evidentially, everything eventually congregates with them. If you can prevent scrap dealers from taking the stuff, then you remove the demand.

    Secondly, the Transport Police need to go on the offensive, and actually start patrolling the track. PIR detection systems around infrastructure would help, but you'd need to deal with the issue of false positives from wildlife etc.

    Last week I was stopped on a platform in Doncaster by a BTP PCSO and asked if I was aware of the problem of cable theft. Erm, Hello? I'm a bloody rail user - OF COURSE I'm aware of the issue!!! They need to stop doing pointless exercises like this, and actually address the problem directly...

  24. irrelevant

    dealers?

    There really needs to be tighter penalties for the dealers that accept this stuff. The only case I have heard of one actually being prosecuted is this one:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-11487666

    (paid £61 for £15,000 of stolen brass band instruments!)

  25. Slartybardfast
    Happy

    ACPO Conductive Metal Theft Working Group

    I for one would like to put myself forward as the primary member of the Non-Conductive Metal Working Group. I guarantee that all thefts of non-conductive metals will be solved within one day. I'd be willing to provide this service for the nominal sum of £500 per day.

  26. JaitcH
    WTF?

    Fishermen in on the deal, too

    Underwater cables look much alike whether they are carrying copper communications cable, fibre-optic or high voltage electricity.

    Starting about three years ago Vietnamese fishermen went after a new species - the underwater cable. The cables laid during the American War became redundant being replaced by fibre and some bright spark in the telecoms industry said the fishermen could recover and sell as much of the old cable and sell on to supplement their incomes.

    Unfortunately an old cable, to a fisherman, looks much the same as a new one and as a result the InterNet capacity was slashed. We are talking tens of kilometres here!

    Every so often around the Gulf of Thailand, a major feeder area for many countries, another cry of anguish goes up as yet another species is caught. Now all fibre cable have GLASS printed in four languages along the length of the plastic sheaths.

    Funny thing is these fishermen know which the electrical power cables to the many islands look like - and that they go BANG when cut!

  27. Chad H.
    Flame

    Wouldnt....

    Wouldn't adding a second, high voltage cable teach them the error of their ways?

  28. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Lucky to have on been given 3 years!

    While signaling cable is, relatively, low voltage power cable is not and its removal while live is reckless in the extreme. The cable value may have been low but 3 years is not a disincentive. They'll be out in 18 months max.

    I have been delayed more than once due to feckless indigent halfwits like these and it has cost me substantially more than £44. If you multiply it up the actual cost of delay, disruption and cancellation to the public is at least an order of magnitude more that the direct cost to the train operators.

    If the clowns had been damaged rather than killed or got away with it, there would have been a cost to be incurred with that as well.

    The penalty for handling the stolen materials is nowhere near severe enough and that is really were the problem lies. The penalty for handling cable is little more than that for an aluminium beer keg or plastic bread tray - can that be right?? Remove the market, make the probability of detection greater and make the penalties a bit more draconian and you might slow the whole thing down to manageable levels.

    Develop similar penalties for those tossers in the City of London and we might be on the road to a better National attitude.

    1. The Commenter formally known as Matt
      WTF?

      really?

      >> but 3 years is not a disincentive. They'll be out in 18 months max.

      Even if this is true are you saying 18 months inside and a criminal record is not a disincentive to steal £44 worth of anything????

      Talk about living on a different planet

      1. Intractable Potsherd

        @ formally Matt

        Unfortunately, that is regarded as nothing more that an occupational hazard by some. 18 months inside and a criminal record may not have the same impact as it would on you or me. That is reality, not insult to anyone.

  29. Anomalous Cowturd
    FAIL

    Please, not aluminium.....

    Ally comms cable is absolutely fscking useless. Ask any-one living on a sixties housing development...

    Plus, it's much lighter than copper, so thieving toe rags will have to nick more of it to ensure a steady income.

    Double fail.

  30. James O'Shea

    not new

    Many, many, MANY years ago I worked for an electric utility, running their SCADA systems. Late one night I went over to the control room as i was on my way out of the building after installing some new gear in the computer room. The guys had just got a call indicating that there was an outage which wasn't on the board, so they sent a truck from Transmissions & Special Services around to have a look. I still remember the dialog which resulted once the T&SS truck arrived on scene.

    "Control, we know why there's an outage."

    "Why?"

    "Someone climbed pole <insert pole ID code here> and pole <different ID code> and cut down the 24 kV primary distribution line."

    "Don't be ridiculous, that'd be about a mile and a half of cable."

    "Want to come out here and look for yourself, Control?"

    Yes, folks, someone climbed a utility pole and cut into three-phase, 24 thousand volt, 20 to 50 amp, main distribution cable. They also removed some 400 volt secondary distribution cable. They cut off service to several thousand customers in the process, and they did it in the dark, without taking along illumination which might have revealed what they were doing. T&SS took several hours next morning to replace the cable when they were doing it in light of day, 'cause they didn't feel like doing hot-stick work with 24 kV lines at night, thank you kindly.

    There was a 69 kV secondary transmission line running parallel to the 24 kV line; I'd have paid money to see our cable thieves mess with _that_, but apparently there were limitations to how insane they were. or maybe they just knew that if they touched the 69 line there would have been alarms going off in Control immediately.

    In any case, the thieves were organised. They knew what they were doing and they came prepared to remove the line. Do you have any idea how much a mile and a half of copper cable _weighs_?

  31. Anonymous Coward
    Thumb Up

    Not all bad...

    Crooks stole 160m of telephone cable from our village recently. Chopped it at two manholes, then tied it to a van and pulled it out.

    After three days with no phone or net, we got the services back.

    The new cable is giving me several dbs less line attenuation for ADSL.

    Result.

  32. Alan Brown Silver badge
    FAIL

    Fibre Optic data cables look just like copper ones

    Apart from the labelling on them - and the average copper thief can't read.

    Why will registering scrap metal dealers solve the problem? NuLab repealed that act because it wasn't achieving a damn thing in terms of controlling thefts.

    If ripping out cables puts lives in danger or disrupts 999 then thieves should be prosecuted accordingly. They only got 3 years for disrupting trains, so that's a good starting point.

    (Personally I'm in favour of Heinlein's proposed method for dealing with outlaws and strongly in favour of putting riot squads regularly through the UK's enclaves of such.)

  33. Anonymous Coward
    Joke

    SmartWater?

    <forensic trap devices, which "douse offenders in a chemically coded liquid, which will cover their skin, clothing and hair">

    What? You mean an inflated used condom?

  34. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But Guv'na

    The old rail line was just lying around and it was all rusty like!

  35. Greg J Preece

    Well look at that!

    It's Monday morning and my train has been cancelled because some arse has stolen cable on the line. This is getting to be way too regular.

  36. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    "removed the drain covers to sell them for scrap."

    I guess you've not seen the reports of that happening in various places in the UK then?

    Still, everything's OK, as we're all in this together

    ps the "tough network there" post may have been wrong on the organisational aspects of UK rail but on technological resilience he was spot on. Even BT's national backbone has some resilience built in.

    "without taking more money away from paying for sorely-needed additional rolling stock"

    Someone else doesn't understand the organisation (hey, it's complicated; too complicated to describe here).

  37. Tigra 07
    Alert

    Simple Solution...

    Electrify the track with a low current.

  38. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    If there was ever a reason

    To reintroduce the death penalty in the UK, then applying it to copper thieves would be it.

    IMHO they are worse than pedos, identity fraudsters , terrorists and drug dealers combined, the damage done to society from loss of power is similar to that caused by a natural disaster.

    Make it public execution, by electric chair. Broadcast on BBC, ITV, CH4, Sky1, etc and have ol' Cameron pull the lever.

    Problem = solved. Simplez.

    AC, because I would recommend DC as its more painful or so I hear.

    (and can someone PLEASE add a lightning bolt/Tesla Coil symbol to El Reg, thankz)

  39. Nigel R Silver badge

    Wot no metal detector?

    Perhaps under very fibre manhole should be a cheap metal detector, like the ones used to detect wiring in wall Let the crims satisfy themselves, no copper here!

    1. Yag
      Thumb Down

      Great idea...

      The first thief will steal the detector.

      The second will steal the cable.

  40. Chris 235

    Incredulous colleagues

    When I have work-colleague visitors from India, they're stunned when I tell them about this.

    They expect it back home, but had no idea this would happen over here!

  41. Anonymous Coward
    Flame

    Randomly label the cables

    It much more fun when some twit tries to cut out a length of data cable, only to figure out it was a live electric line (about 0.01 seconds before death).

    Saves the cost of a court case, has a deterent effect on smart criminals, and a darwin effect on the others.

    Joking aside, the amount of Highway kit stolen and damaged in the act of theft, costs serious amount of money that you have to pay for on your Council Tax bill, as well causing death and serious injury to member of the public going about there business.

    Personally I would like to see such thefts that cause a serious threat to life and limb being handled under something like reckless enderagement (attempted manslaughter).

  42. Mister_C

    Beer kegs

    Empty beer kegs (decent weight of aluminium) don't get knicked for weighing in because back in the bad old days when keg beer was introduced the breweries came to an arrangement with the scrap merchants not to handle _any_ kegs. There's usually a sign to that effect at or near the cash desk.

    I know a keg shaped piece of ally is a bit easier to spot than a rats nest of bare copper wire, but better licensing really would sort the honest merchants from the fences.

  43. Harry

    "the average copper thief can't read."

    Anybody (illiterate or not) who nicks a policeman is asking for trouble.

  44. Anonymous Coward
    Boffin

    HMRC

    How about repeated visits by HM Tax Inspectors and Customs Officers until the traders get their act together?

  45. Dr Patrick J R Harkin

    Pardon?

    "A spokesman for Energy Networks Association (ENA) told us that cable thefts of energy transmission – for both electricity and gas"

    Is much gas delivered through cables?

  46. OffBeatMammal

    Has England really come to this?

    years ago I worked in South Africa, and while I regard Cape Town as one of the best places I ever contracted in there were regular occurences of this in other parts of the country - often accomapanied by horrific stories of death and injury

    at the time RSA was going through a lot of turmoil - it was past the worst of the end of Apartheid but a long was from a stable economy but at the time the UK was a great role model for them and something many of the people I spoke to hoped to attain.

    now however I compare the two countries and wonder which is the one in hopeless decline, torn apart by senseless politics and self serving government and which is the one who is re-defining themselves, bringing a disperate population together and actually facing up to the future.... (fwiw while I enjoy coming back to England for a holiday, 2 weeks is about all I can take before I start to suspect it's a madhouse. I don't think I could ever return to live)

  47. Anonymous Coward
    Grenade

    HMRC

    "repeated visits by HM Tax Inspectors and Customs Officers until the traders get their act together?"

    A combination of New Labour's "light touch regulation" and Big Dave's Big Society renders that one almost infinitely improbable. Which is a shame.

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