IBM whips out its TPC-C...cluster

A.C, Jsesper

A.C

"The claims that Oracle had the fastest TPC-C system was and is:FALSE, FAKE or FUD - call it what you want. The Power 6 595 is still the fastest single node database server out there."

No one denies that IBM had the fastest single node database server. The question was, who could deliver most TPC-C performance. Who had the record. Until recently it was Oracle who could deliver most TPC-C performance. Call it FUD if you wish, but it is true that Oracle had the top spot. You dont have to believe me on this, but you can check it up. I dont get it how IBM can claim they still had the TPC-C record, because IBM "had faster cores"??? Just sick reasoning. It reminds of when Jesper Frimann explained to me, that even though you need four POWER6 at 5GHz to match two Nehalem at 2.93GHz in TPC-C, the POWER6 is the faster cpu. Because "the POWER6 core is faster". Just sick reasoning. You need to be an IBMer to show such a flawed logic. If one core is faster, it doesnt make the entire CPU faster. Nor does a faster ALU or faster register, does not make the CPU faster. Just weird and flawed logic.

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Jesper

No one denies IBM has the record. What is your problem? I have not denied it. I accept the official POWER7 benchmarks. You, on the other hand, did not accept Niagara benchmarks, you rejected them all because they where "crafted by Sun", "cherry picked by Sun", etc. I dont have problem admitting the POWER7 is fastest right now. You OTOH, could not admit Niagara was fastest on some benchmarks. You could not admit that Nehalem was faster than POWER6, even when the benchmarks showed it.

POWER6 was slower than Niagara T2 on some workloads. I expect Niagara T3 to be faster than POWER7 in a similar vein. The problem is the turmoil with Sun. Development has not been prioritized, lots of people have been axed. When develpment of T3 continues without disturbances again, I would not be surprised if T3 utterly crushes POWER7 and makes it look just as pathetic as Niagara T2 at 1.4GHz made the POWER6 at 5GHz look like.

For the 16.384 thread machine, most probably it will no be a cluster. But a single server. Now it looks insane with 16.384 threads. But remember, back then Niagara T2 looked insane, but it delivered. I expect T3 to deliver. Sun has always gone first, and others have followed. Like when IBM talked about few high clocked cores is the way forward and downtalked many lower clocked cores as Niagara has, and now with POWER7 the way forward is many lower clocked cores. Ridiculous. But I dont expect you to see that.

Too perfect

http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/6851-Too-perfect.html

@Jesper Frimann

"That is because You have never understood what I said, either deliberately or due to lack of ... well.. understanding. The problem is that people use the terms fast as it was a one dimensional label. It isn't.".... It doesnt matter what you call it. You have numerous times said (just as IBM) because one core is faster, then the whole cpu must be faster. You said that POWER6 is faster in than Nehalem in TPC-C just because one POWER6 core is faster. You have also talked about how slow cores Niagara has, and how fast a POWER6 core is.

So what does it matter how slow one core is, or how slow the ALU is? The only thing that matters is how fast the CPU is, when we talk about the fastest CPU. I explained this to you many times, but you kept rambling about "faster cores", "higher license costs if you use many cores", etc. When you claim that POWER6 is faster than Niagara, then we must compare CPU vs CPU, I said. But you kept talking about how fast POWER6 core is. Just like the Nehalem vs POWER6 benchmark. Just sick reasoning. You need FOUR power6 cpus to match TWO nehalem - and still the power6 is faster because the core is faster. Great thinking from IBMers.

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"On the other hand then terms like "total chip throughput" is a relatively well defined metric. And here you are quite right, T2(+) is "faster" than POWER6."...... Wow! Stop the presses! Jesper admits that T2 is faster than POWER6 in any aspect. I didnt expect that. Usually you just deny and reject all benchmarks that show T2 being faster in any aspect. The benchmarks are "crafted by Sun", "cherry picked by Sun", etc. What has happened, Jesper? When T3 comes out, and crushes POWER7 just like T2 crushed POWER6, will you deny and reject all those new benchmarks, just like you usually do?

FYI, when you talk about speed. If a T2 has much higher throughput than POWER6 and can finish the job much faster it means T2 is.... faster, yes? T2 finish the job in much shorter time, because higher throughput. To most people, it means T2 is faster. But not to you IBM FUDers I suspect.

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"Eh ? A POWER7 core is faster than a POWER6 core (delivers more single threaded throughput) A POWER7 core also delivers more throughput than a POWER6 core and finally a POWER7 CHIP also delivers more throughput than a POWER6 chip. So what is your problem ? IBM managed to do all three things. Increase speed and increase throughput and throughput."...Yes, but IBM has always bashed Niagaras approach with many and slower clocked cores. The only way forward is few and very high clocked CPUs IBM said. Back then, it was radical to have 8 cores. No one used 8 cores, except Sun. Now everone does it. Including IBM. I have heard about a new IBM cpu with 16 cores and 64 threads - does it not sound similar to Niagara cpus? You know, the very same Niagara which has such a baaaaad approach, according to IBM? To copy someone else, is the sincerest form of flatter.

If IBM had such a good approach, where are the cpus with 1-2 cores clocked at ridiculously high speeds? Where are the single core cpus clocked at 8-10GHz? No one does that, not even IBM. It is a dead end. Sun leads the way, again. T3 will have 128 threads, which sounds sick today. But tomorrow everyone will have it. Oracle will release SPARC machines with 16.384 threads which sounds sick to today, which is usual when we talk about Sun tech. But tomorrow everyone will have it. Including IBM.

I just dont get it. When IBM bashes something, IBMers says it is the worst in the world, it is slow, the fast benchmarks are lies, they are "crafted and cherry picked". When IBM does exactly the same thing a few years later, it it the best in the world. Jesus. Sun released the container full of servers, Black Box(?) years ago. Have IBM also released their copy yet? Sun had a technique where you run different cpus: SPARC, niagara, x86 and one Solaris to rule them all. Recently IBM has released the same thing for a Mainframe, it will rule POWER7 blades, x86 blades etc - but they all run their separate OS. This IBM Mainframe technique is truly "revolutionary and unique and new" yes? Hilarious. Just look what Sun does today, and expect IBM to copy that a couple of years later. Just like Microsoft copies Apple.

And all this false IBM marketing: one Mainframe can consolidate 1500 x86 servers - if they all idle. Jesus. According to wikipedia, IBM was the first company to employ FUD. The FUD continues.