Will the cop get the sack?
The police thought he was being teste
It's too hot for a coat...
A Somerset man pulled on suspicion of "driving a BMW without insurance"* ended up with a groinful of Taser after an officer accidentally discharged the electric law enforcer into his nether regions. According to the BBC, 49-year-old Peter Cox was going about his business in Bridgwater on 13 July, when he spotted a patrol car …
Perhaps in England they don't happen often. In the US there are plenty of cases. An Oakland policeman was convicted of involuntary manslaughter the other week in the case of a young man he shot; it is possible that the policeman thought he was holding his Taser, not his pistol. I can remember a young woman killed by an accidental discharge in the Washington suburbs in the 1990s--and remember it only because she was the second person killed by that police officer under dubious circumstances.
Or, possibly, it happens plenty:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294974/Bungling-armed-police-fired-guns-accidentally-110-TIMES-3-years.html
110 accidental gunshots (if an admittedly suspicious source is to be believed*) between less than seven thousand authorized firearms officers in three years is pretty bad, if you ask me.
*Actual number may be closer to \sqrt{7655 \pi} e^{99i}.
Police who are trained to carry and use firearms tend not to whip them out for anything trivial, since shooting people is generally considered a big deal. Tasers, on the other hand, are not treated with the same respect as guns, which I guess is why some police see it fit to point them at people during traffic stops.
As anybody knows who was introduced to firearm safety at any point in their lives, you should not point a weapon at somebody unless you are at least considering shooting them with it.
policy. Getting tasered is becoming all to common. Sadly, now our bobbies have "guns" (tasers) they are all to eager to pull them out at the slightest provocation. Coppers are being trained that a taser is the only option for a gobby prick.
Which really does sound just like American police, only they will pull a proper real steel one on you and fire for the fucking laugh of it.
After all, he WAS insured and suffered from a pretty serious medical disorder. Tell me this, was the copper in question a 20 year old straight out of training school?? All the qualifications but no fucking experience whatsoever..
So, here we go.
Oinker. According to our records, you arent insured.
Victim, Yes i am insured, why arent you out catching proper nut jobs.
Oinker. Dont take that tone with me you fucking member of the public you.. ZAP...
What ever happened to the good old fashioned british copper with a degree of discretion and a firm but polite tone.
PS, dear America, please piss off and take all thats crap with your culture back with you.
They were the first country to advocate taser use, they then performed tests that HAVE NOT been independently verified by anyone other than themselves.
So, we, being the USA's lapdog have followed suit, simply because that grinning twat blair thought it was a good idea at the time. This is why our culture has been poisoned because we were all to eager to roll over and let the yanks tickles labours fucking bellies!!!
Sadly, i doubt we will ever return to the "good old days" (erm, think back 15 years, aint that long!) where bobbies patrolled the streets, gun crime was an utter rarity and the coppers didnt need tooling up because there was far far less violent crime. Thugs have always been thugs and 2 coppers with 20 years experience can diffuse almost all situations and thugs with body locks, stern words and at most a pepper spray. But now, as i stated before, these junior little piglets are far to fucking trigger happy because thats how they are being trained. Suspect resists in any way and its the 3 word shout TASER TASER TASER.
copper with a degree of discretion and a firm but polite tone?
Gone down the drain with that good old fashioned British culture which has been replaced by that PC multiculty diversity stuff where nobody is responsible anymore for their behaviour.
To sum up:
Owning a BMW = possessing an offensive weapon.
Driving a BMW = aggressive behaviour.
Asking a PC if there's a problem* = obstructing an officer in the execution of his duty.
Shooting an invalid in the nuts with a Taser = an accident.
*Normal response when we don't know what the cop wants.
Lets try and look at this objectively.
The guy was driving and saw a cop car behind him. (It doesnt mention whether the lights were flashing or not - but lets assume they were - i mean, why else would you pull over?).
The guy pulls his car over and then jumps out.
Now for a police officer, when you pull someone over they stay in their car, you walk up, you have your chat and everyone walks away happy (or as happy as the driver can be if he/she's just got a speeding ticket!)
But in this case, the guy jumps out of the car straight away.
For the police officer that means one of two things a) he's making a run for it (in which case your out of the cop car with weapon drawn as fast as possible to start chasing them) or b) the person is being aggressive or has something in their car they dont want you to see. Either way i would probably be pulling my taser here as well.
It appears in this case that the guy got out to go to a friends house and after this became clear, the cop lowered the gun and was putting it away when it discharged. For me, i see no issues here.
What i do have an issue with is the automatic police reply that the guy was acting "aggressively". Is it too difficult for the police to stand up and say "Look, the officer drew his Taser because by jumping out of the car as soon as he was pulled over, the officer thought the victim might be aggressive. As soon as this was identified as not being the case, the officer lowered his weapon which accidently discharged striking the gentleman. We're sorry it happened, but thats life."
A bit of honesty like that might bring a bit of trust back to the cops, dont you think?
This is the kind of discussion that goes on in the USA, not Britain. I don't even want to get into "the officer was intimidated so he shot the suspect" nonsense. It's not up for debate. I want my country back the way it was, and that starts with tasers in the hands of trained firearms officers ONLY.
Who defines 'aggressive'? A landscape gardener dressed for outdoor work may be, in some eyes, a thug on the prowl. Equally, poor training or arrogance that leads the officer to reach for a weapon when a prole doesn't do as commanded, instantly, needs rebuke and re-education/training of the officer.
The balance has shifted dramatically. Most people would, and I guess still do, defer to a police officer but when that doesn't happen polarised action take place because of the Soap Opera that passes for some peoples lives.
I wonder who will pay the 'compensation'? Daft question really!
Right, taser use seems to be getting out of hand. To me, too many instances of its use simply smells of abuse.
Perhaps the next big selling item for the average citizen will be clothing that specifically protects against tasers. That's electrically conductive clothes which have metal interwoven within the threads etc. to short out the electric current.
Even contemplating the idea means something's wrong with its administration.
It is quite likely /because/ they do not carry guns (and were thus probably not trained to carry guns) that they do not show the proper respect for other point-and-click interfaces. A taser in the hands of somebody who doesn't know how to handle a gun is asking for trouble, because now he's got something almost as dangerous plus the silly idea that, if something goes wrong, it won't cause more than pain. Wouldn't it be better to get the idea in one's head that someone could die when you pull the trigger? Isn't that the less dangerous way of thinking?
There is a good argument that there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge" of an offensive weapon, unless there is some kind of hardware problem.
"Accidently" shooting someone in the gentleman's region with a Tazer is a "Neglegent Discharge", and the Peeler in question should be sacked.
Naturally, he wont be.
The funny thing (for some values of funny) is that a lot of cops think just like you do. I will give an example of something that actually happened once.
Suppose two cars are driving on a road whose posted speed limit is thirty-five miles per hour. One of them is driving at fifty miles per hour. Who gets busted and has to pay a fine to the city?
The guy in the BMW who, while minding his own business and doing nothing wrong, got passed by someone who was driving at fifty miles per hour.
They (BBC) put "driving a BMW without insurance" because the BBC are too politically correct to put "driving a BMW like a twat".
5 gets you 10 the officer tazered him ("accidentally") for not using his indicator when pulling over....seems indicators are a totally foreign entity to BMW drivers
Oh BULL SHIT. You just attacked an unarmed man, striking him in an area that probably has caused him permanent disability. Not only this, but you attacked a man who had committed no offense in the first place - you had "suspected to be driving a vehicle without insurance", we know you can have this checked without stopping and harassing the user.
Just the other night on that show where they follow the cops with camera they stopped some poor girl who had purchased a brand new expensive watch "they thought she had stolen". No she didn't
THIS is why I have no respect for the law right now. Anon because, ah you know the rest.
I thought Tazers were only to be used in extreme circumstances, y'know as a non lethal alternative to armed response. Is this officer saying that he is so poor at his job that instead of being able or bothered to use de-escalation techniques, he resorted to non lethal firearms as a first resort?
And the police wonder why ACAB still has meaning.
I can safely say that if I was tazered I'd go for the jackpot as well. The police are trained to deal with escalatory behaviour without resorting to physically incapacitating an individual. We know this is the case because every fugging TV programme which portrays our boys in blue tells us that they are nothing short of celestial geniuses with exemplary inter-personal skills who can diffuse any situation without the need for physical interaction.
The real problem here is that 'aggressive' can be classed as perceptional, so the copper can't be told he's wrong if he 'genuinely thinks' the mark is behaving in an aggressive manner.
"To be fair to the police, said copper could have blagged that man was aggressive so he tazered him on purpose and but was big enough to admit to a mistake."
Um, no actually at this stage there were witnesses. You know, those people who go up in court and state what they saw? Of course he "admitted" that he made a mistake.
"Tazered chap sounds like he is going for the jackpot on the compo though" And we should allow cops to tazer us in the nuts is what you're saying, right?
So by your logic, I can come over to your house, right now, with a tazer, and shoot you in the nuts; then just apologize and we'll be all square? Cool. Give us your address and I'll see you in a bit.
But it's a motorbike so not the same kettle of fish (IE I know where my indicators are and I use them).
I thought police that were issued tasers were meant to have the same basic training/proficiency as the police with the real deal? this doesn't seem to tie in with that =p.
Sounds like he had a narrow escape though and tbh for amount of compo he will problaby get I'm sure it's worth it =p.
I imagine it's the fact he stopped and got out that paniced the officer in question, still a massive over reaction though imho but then if he's a big lad and the officer had the taser to hand I can imagine the temptation to use what you have to hand would be there explaining why he drew on cox.
He'll need a stiff talking to for this (near) balls up though.
.The real question here is why didn't Plod check PNC/ANPR/whatever system, and if he did, why was the information about the insurance wrong?
Had the most basic of checks been made the guy wouldn't have been pulled over in the first place.
I will however, defend the cop pulling the tazer if the man got out of his car upon stopping, he's lucky he didn't do that in the states or they probably would have shot him there and then, afterall who can say the guy wasn't getting out of the car to attack Plod?
If invited to pull off the road by a policeman I would be inclined to get out of the car and greet him in a friendly cooperative manner, on the grounds that sitting in the car and waiting for him to come over would be impolite and would also result in a rather awkward conversation - side on through an open window. That is based on the presumption that a policeman is my friend. So you think it's OK for the copper to mis-interpret my civilised approach and shoot me? Bollocks.
can the police do this to every twat driving a bmw, and audis and mercs and Range rovers
im not saying all the drivers of the above maques are twats just most of them
and while were at it whats the point of the BMW1 series that just says to me "oh look i have a 1 series because i couldnt afford a 3 series coupe on my pay grade
hyuck hyuck hyuck
"the officer removed his Taser in accordance with protocol"
So, far from being a 'non-lethal' alternative in situations where a firearm would be used, police protocol is to use them as a threat where someone is ‘aggressive’ – by the officer’s completely objective definition no doubt.
"Suspected of driving without insurance"? Eh? Does someone without insurance drive differently from everyone else then? It's not like "suspected of driving whilst under the influence", where the standard of driving might make you suspect it. And there's a nifty database which tells you rather quickly whether he's insured or not, so either PC Zappa didn't bother checking, or the database is screwed up.
Anyway, the fact that the plod missed with the Taser suggests he's not a real policeman. After all, everyone knows copper is a good conductor of electricity. (Coat, door...)
Anti-Taser clothing and anti-Taser sprays (for clothing) are commercially available, in North America, at least.
They even have a patent: < http://gizmodo.com/318169/taser+proof-gear-is-great-for-students-political-activists-criminals >.
D-I-Y types should check: < http://shadowrx.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3879 >.
Anti-taser gear might seem a great idea, but if the police hit you with a taser and you don't go down, what is next? It seems likely at this point that you will have a gun pointed at you, and I would prefer a tasering than the risk that the plod accidentally (or otherwise) discharges a firearm at me.
I'll wait for review of the video evidence before coming up with an opinion here.
mean the police database didn't have the insurance records. The police car probably had ANPR which checks this automatically for every car it sees. Sadly the system for insurers to keep records upto date is not perfect.
But the more un-insured drivers they get off the road the better.
They could at least have waited to check with his insurer whether he was covered before they Tazed the guys nuts though.
As an accidental discharge. What they mean is negligent discharge. If the police officer did not intend to fire, what was his trigger finger doing on the trigger? Basic gun safety rules apply to tasers the same as any gun.
Wether or not the cop was justified in pulling the taser in the first place is irrelevant.
Seriously now, what the hell is wrong with all the taser bashers?
So someone gets a slight shock, big deal. Genuinely, big fuckin deal.
Here's the options for a confrontation with the rozzers.....
1) Shot!
2) Smacked half to fuck with a batton
3) Tased
Lets consider this another way....
1) Big fuckin hole in the chest.
2) Broken jaw with a few teeth missing and cracked eye socket
3) Zapped and shat your pants.
Now given the choice which are you going to go for? Personally I'm all for a tasering. In fact, fuck it, I'd not even be bothered about the odd 'accidental' tasering. They even tase coppers so they can see what it's like, do you hear them bitching and moaning?
Everyone I've seen to date being all liberal, pissy and anti tase I've thought the exact same thing.....
Fuckin PUSSY!!!!! That is all.
Yes because the bobbies are always right when they use lethal force, like oh I dunno when someone gets shot in the head getting of a train because he looked similar to someone the cops were hunting (Jean Charles de Menezes anyone?).
The problem here is not a bunch of pussies. It's people like you who screw up our right to be safe from those who are meant to be protecting us; by insisting that they're right to do as they please and to hell with the consequences.
Paris. She's more of a man than you'll ever hope to be.
Whimpered AC "Wonder what your reaction would be if it happened to you?"
Huh? Ok.
Well, most likely convulsions stopping the fluid pronunciation of "FFFFFFFUUUUUCCKKK"
A fair chance of the turtle munching through the cloth.
Endless tales in the pub of a cocksucker what tased me
A constant reassuring check and fondle of my narrowly missed nutsack.
Unfortunately, over the years, a complete disregard for personal safety combined with the curiosity of what constitutes a thrill and a blase attitude to pain has left it's marks. Mains voltage has been in there too a couple of times, and so has the occasional electric fence "just to see what it does". So what's a taser to me in and amongst that? A case of beer and a doob and you could swap paint ball guns for tasers and I'd be well up for a go, lets remember when the big boys are playing that an accidental death doesn't automatically stop the game. Although no aiming for the bollocks would have be a gentlemans agreement up front.
Brave words? Nah, just indifference to things that make 'puddle jumpers' cry because it might cause them a booboo.
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> But in this case, the guy jumps out of the car
> straight away.
>
> For the police officer that means one of two things
> a) he's making a run for it (in which case your out
> of the cop car with weapon drawn as fast as possible
> to start chasing them) or b) the person is being
> aggressive or has something in their car they dont
> want you to see. Either way i would probably be
> pulling my taser here as well.
Holy fucking deductive logic, Batman.
Good job for me you're not a copper; I *always* leave the car (without a "jump") and meet the police half-way between both vehicles... to sit in the car just strikes me as very poor form.
in the million or so times ive been pulled over for being under 80 years old and driving a car with more than 2bhp*, ive always got out of the car with my licence in my hand. saves time and you generally pass the "attitude test" meaning i get a friendly warning that one of my lights is out, rather than 50,000 volts to the privates.
*might be slightly exaggerated. However ive had the "is this your car?" "Are you insured?" "how old are you?" "must cost quite a bit to insure?" conversation so many times now.
as for "accidently discharging" a tazer into someone, id sue the nuts (excuse the pun) out of them for that. Luckily we dont give the oxygen actual guns, else this story might be a tad more morbid.