Johnson: ID cards will pay for themselves

ID cards will pay for themselves

The home secretary has said that the identity scheme's budget will be recouped through charging the public for the cards.

Just a tax then.

Perhaps somebody should point out to the Government the difference between income and taxation?

eh?

Recoup money from public? We don't (or even asked) for the ID card. Why the f**k should I be made to pay for something I don't want?

Johnson is an idiot. Get Labour out and away from all this crap.

WTF???

EVERYTHING these cretins propose and enact is funded by making the public (aka taxpayers) pay for it.

So what's different?

"If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment"

In other words, as many people have been saying all along, Labour have bulled ahead with this project so that, having spent huge amounts of public money, they can claim that anyone trying to cancel the project will be "wasting" that dosh.

Well, no, Mr Johnson, it is *YOU* who have wasted that money, it is *YOU* who have pissed it away on an unworkable control-freak project that has been doomed to failure from the start, don't start trying to put the blame on others now.

no thanks

And if i refuse to pay? or am unable to? if they start charging something stupid like £70-£80 as ive heard then they can shove it to be honest.

Rebrand ID cards...

...As Northerner cards! (and maybe call the ones for the young Londoners 'I can't get served in pubs' cards)

You know...

... I think it is time we brought back 'tar and feathering'.

So what he is saying...

is that instead of the tax payer paying for them through tax, we'll pay for them by buying them.....

that'll work......

You won't scrap the car and DB without scrapping the government.

Fortunately that wont be difficult.

15 days to go.

BTW Anyone put in an FOI request on how long the chips on these passports are meant to last.. Only I don't think they are good for the full 10 (or is it 25) years of the paper wrapping they will be inside.

Johnson: ID cards will pay for themselves

Thereby proving that Johnson is a complete idiot.

pay through the nose

So either the general public pay for the scheme through their taxes, or the general public pay for the scheme by signing up themselves and 'volunteering' their life to the government? What a choice, and further indication that government ministers are so out of touch they think the Treasury prints its own money if they need it for a white elephant, rather than it actually having to come from ordinary people!

tit

Can we have an image of a singular breast or of a small bird please?

Vote libdem to play a practical joke on every politician.

Double-you-tee-eff?

So essentially what he is saying is that since we the taxpaying public pay for this thing twice over (first in taxes, then in fees for getting the card) then its not a "waste"? For gods sake this just means its DOUBLY wasteful!

Please whoever is in this idiots constituency PLEASE PLEASE vote him out of government!!!

A curious use of the phrase "pay for itself"

No Mr Johnson, it will not pay for itself

We will pay for it.

It's "voluntary"? Yeah right, try getting by without one in ten years time when every government agency will demand it if you want to do anything.

If everyone (or most people) in the country have to pay the government then it's a tax, one way or the other.

"Paying for itself" would indicate that the savings from using it will outweigh the cost. E.g. "This new car will pay for itself in five years through improved fuel efficiency".

Johnson is one of the (numerous) reasons I will not be voting Labour.

Oh Dear

"The money all comes back because we charge for ID cards. If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment and you get no money back because we will charge for the ID card,"

Happily, that is the single most convincing argument I've ever heard in support of ID cards/NIR.

Wow

So the public paid billions for the first part of this stupid scheme, and now it's silly to cancel it because it's going to pay for itself by, you guessed it, the public forking over yet more money.

Send this idiot back to the school system that obviously failed him.

Daft!

I think UK politicians think that there are infinite monies in circulation at any one time.

Of course money in circulation is terribly finite and taking a slice out of that has impact on the dosh in circulation. In other words it is a tax but by a different name.

To Labour: no more of this 1984 doublespeak please. No wonder Nick Clegg and colleagues are attracting attention with apparently increasing charm and vigour.

(Should Labour return to government I hope this chap is swiftly disrobed of ministerial powers.)

paying

So it won't cost the taxpayer anything because taxpayers will willingly pay for them themselves. Hmm, slight flaw in the argument there I think.

Johnson+position on QinetiQ board

One thing politicians are excellent at is wasting billions by starting projects as "capital investments," which are essentially gravy trains dreamed up by multinationals and their lobbyist footsoldiers to suck up a once bottomless pit of taxpayer's money. If Johnson wants the ID card scheme to continue, then he can always finance it personally.

It says a title is required

So if I have this correct, th is no longer about any security benefit in going ahead with these accursed things, it's about giving money to a contractor and then "taxing" the already hard pressed electorate further. Excellent G&T's all round......

Fuck off ID cards, Johnson and the horse they all rode in on.

Beg your pardon?

"If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment" - so we can assume that Johnson will be pushing to restart the investment in the NHS IT (12 Billion and still counting), will he?

The ID system is flawed from the outset (using existing passports as their 'core' data, for example) and will be as big a flop as the NHS system was predicted to be - government simply can't run projects this size, partly because no one is in a position of responsibility for long enough - and when it does start to smell and look remarkably like a lemon, the department head finds the nearest revolving door and gets a safe position on the board of some Corporation that needs the ear of Government.

Please, everyone: stop these people before it's too late. Our way of life is at stake here and, while we can't control things like the unplesant weather we get in the UK sometimes, we *can* control who's responsible for policy and spending.

Epic fail.

If they'll pay for themselves

why bother charging?

Oh, I see. He means that WE will pay for them.

Alan, do us all a favour and piss off.

No, no - not your OWN card

You'll only have to pay for the extra cards in other peoples names - a pub distribution list is being set up now and they'll be priced to allow resale at a profit.

Rt. Hon. Addict MP

Perhaps Johnson should be talking to Gamblers Anonymous - I'm sure they've had much experience in the, "I've thrown so much money away that I cannot do anything but keep throwing money away in the hope I recoup my losses", excuses.

In fact, Neu Labour seemingly has all the hallmarks of addicts or mental derangement; they get some 'bright idea' into their heads then bulldoze it through, ignoring opposition, all the while claiming what they do is best for everyone. Even when they can see it's wrong or won't work they still insist on carrying through to the bitter end (which for them will hopefully will be just a few week's time).

New tach

Its new from the ivory tower lot if its cost lots of money once the projects started lets not stop it cause its a waste of money.

My logical senses tell me if you didn't start these stupid projects you'd save even more money but why worry when its the 9 to 5 lot that have to pay for it.

MP's wasting your money in ways you wouldn't get in Hollywood.

When my beer...

... starts paying for itself, I might think again about ID cards. Not until.

PS there's an avenue for a bribe there if anyone's listening. (And they probably are).

Get ready for 5 more years of this BS, people!

Maybe there'll be a revolution? Nah that wouldn't be British.

You will pay for it

If Labour get back in, you will be forced to pay - they'll make the cards compulsory, or part of the Passport or Driving License application (despite any previous statement to the contrary).

I'm not saying I support this - joust pointing out what happens if you have the same group of idiots in charge for too long (and that is *any* group of idiots, not just the current shambles).

It's about time the (senior) staff in Government departments were on limited time terms too - just look at who actually calls the shots - is it the Ministers or is it the Permanent Secretaries (Sir Humphrey Appleby, et al)

Sunk costs

Politicians couldn't recognise a sunk cost if it fell on them.

O

"will be recouped through charging the public"

That's completely the opposite of "paying for itself".

If the scheme really did "pay for itself" then there would be no need for a CHARGE.

Clearly, the scheme doesn't pay for itself in any "meaningful" way, shape or form and the false pretence that it does is just the sort of bogus rubbish that you expect from incompetent government officials.

More fatuous nonsense from postman Alan

ID cards will pay for themselves Alan? Er... no, not quite. At least thirteen million people will have to buy one before they start paying for themselves. Given a choice I'm sure that most of those thirteen million people would rather pass on that one and spend the money on something useful instead.

I think the Home Secretary's logic goes something like this. We spend billions of pounds up front for an ID card project which eventually we would like to force you all to have and then, when you all have no choice in the matter, we will recoup our initial investment and claim it was all self-financing. Neat eh?

Mind the door on the way out Mr Johnson; oh and good luck in your new career.

WTF?

>The money all comes back because we charge for ID cards.

>If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment and

>you get no money back because we will charge for the ID card.

What he means is, they've ALREADY SPENT OUR MONEY once

and now they WANT TO CHARGE US AGAIN to get it all back!!!

The Home Sec is a Marxist

And don't ANYONE forget that. Britain is walking into a very dark and sinister future, blindly by the looks of things. ID cards should be 100% voluntary and the data behind them managed by the individual, with the law purely there to ensure data validity and security. And I should reserve the right to destroy my ID card (and ALL data behind it) at any time.

Godwins Law

"If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment"

Did they try that defence at Nuremburg by any chance?

Dear Mr. Alan "Bloody Stupid" Johnson,

Please look up the phrase, "Cutting your losses" before spouting bollocks like this.

"If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment"

An absolutely classic economic fallacy. It's the same fallacy that leads to being nickled and dimed keeping an old car running: "I've spent so much money on it now, I have to spend more to recover those costs."

Does Johnson realize how stupid this sounds to anyone with an IQ over, say, 75?

Incidentally, this also exemplifies NuLabour's inability to say "we have made a mistake."

Sir

Alan Johnson is full of shit, and you can take that to the bank. Oh.

Boycott

I believe that ID cards would be boycotted by so many people that the sceme would have to be abandoned.

You can't force millions of people to carry them if they refuse.

I really don't mind.

Being honest and i am probably on my own here. I welcome the scheme. I think its a good idea, and people have to stop closing themselves down. People are worried about the 'Security risks'..... WHY? The National ID register will hold just as much information on you as the NHS one does, the DWP Database, your local council, also not forgetting, if you have a passport, then... well they already have everything there too, and probably have the same vulnerabilities but also the same security surrounding them.

The ID cards are basically in my eyes are simply just a ageless passports. They hold the same power (you can travel in europe, and use them for 1st degree ID)... so being honest I really don't understand why people are moaning about the ID cards?

I would rather have that for £30 and if I have it stolen or it gets lost in a state of drunken mayhem then fine, I would take that on a night out then to take my passport out, or my drivers licence that has my name address date of birth printed all over it.

so I welcome the cards. and there is my two cents.

Bye Bye Alan.....

So our tax money was spent developing this system so that we could pay over the odds for the cards and refund the government with our money to repay our tax money.

Hmmm I think Alan is helping Labour fall down the poles like a burning turd, welcome to a future of few seats and fewer decisions idiots !

@AC 01:13 - Oh the Irony

Of an Anonymous Coward welcoming the cards and the associated database.

Care to tell us your name?

Just imagine if...

... a Government put £5 billion aside for practical crime* fighting.

The interest alone would be staggering.

No need for plastic cards and databases either.

* crime: including the Nu-Crime [TM] called Terrorism.

If that's the best he can do...

"If we stop now you've wasted all the capital investment and you get no money back because we will charge for the ID card,"

They've hit the bottom of the barrel and done some serious scraping to come up with that little gem. Perhaps we can get the deficit down by telling them in foreign to give us money or we'll nuke them - after all, all that kit is just a drain on resources if it doesn't pay its way.

Labour's recent history is littered with capital investments on which they didn't get a return; the half built, half baked health, education and regeneration projects that were started for the political 'wow' headlines, and quietly dropped when it became obvious they wouldn't work / weren't needed or simply had costs mounting out of control.

Johnson's rather inane remark betrays the fact that Labour - and the tories on their previous outing - view the electorate as little more that target practice for their own 'oh-so-clever' political fundamentalisms. I'd personally prefer a government that did things because they were useful rather than making us all pay, pay and pay again for their self-funding political vanities.

Nice to know.

Of course, he's got the basic principal wrong as many have pointed out but I look forward to hearing the shrieks of pain as the invoices for the ID cards drop through the letterboxes of those stupid enough (or forced to) sign up for one.

Let's see, 13 Billion divided by how many ID cards have they issued?

Darling estimated £40m to scap ID cards.

IIRC it was on a Channel 4 News interview.

£40m now Vs £5.6Bn (at *least*). *not* P^*sing that money away over the next 5 years sounds like a pretty good idea to me.

Still no actual sight of what "cost savings" and where they will come are, aside from the old chestnuts of "identity theft" AKA credit card fraud and benefit fraud which IIRC was estimated at around £25m a year. Not much savings from a pretty big chunk of case HMG does not have.

14 days to go.

This country needs help!!!

SOS - Labour out, this country is in a state and getting worse, labour on great form as normal making a mess and covering it up with more mess!

This country needs a government with some balls to actually fight for what is right not just politically correct in their eyes!!

Labour - DIE DIE DIE

What do they *do* to incoming Home Secretaries?

Alan Johnson seemed a reasonable, tolerant sort of chap. Within a week he's sounding like O'Brien in 1984, just like all his predecessors. There must be an induction briefing, but is it :

- Here is the incredible power you now have, as long as you play along with our peasant-scaring strategy. or...

- Here are the true threats facing UK, the real reason why we absolutely have to arrest photographers and kill black suspects - but the public cannot be told

Don't mind them either

I have an ID card and I use it for travel in Europe and proof of age when I go to the pub. It's only £30 which is cheaper than a passport and smaller because I travel a lot.

I updated my address and that was free, just like it is for your driving license (although the driving license has your address on and my ID card doesn't).

And at least the Israelis can't fake a card with your fingerprints on it too!