Apple sued over i-Bricks

Re: Er...

I think the fact that Apple said they were going to do it kinda wrecks the 'we didn't do it on purpose' defence.

They Bricked IPod shuffles a while back too

iTunes 7 locked up 1st generation shuffles. Both my friend and myslef both lost our shuffles on the same day. The internet is full of user groups of people trying to get it to work again. Have not seen a class action lawsuit over that one.

Narrow Minded

Apple seems to have forgotten that the main reason that they have such as small share in the PC market stems from their original misconceived plan that it was to be a closed platform limited to Apple software and Apple peripherals.

Likewise with their iPhone - it appears to be a good product with some very nice features and sets the trend for the new/next generation; however I can't consider one because I demand the right to choose my service provider. Otherwise I might have (might yet if they improve their marketing concepts) considered a purchase.

Wake up Apple - don't try to choose your customers. Better to let them want to choose you instead - you have the right hardware.

the update

I think if the update didn't improve the software on the phones it didn't brick it's pretty obvious you can't just shit out real improvements as a pretext for bricking it's too difficult I think there is an insane amount of money riding on their ability to keep the iphone locked down

Not the biggest Apple fan but....

I have no sympathy for people whose iphones are bricked. If they were crazy enough to buy a phone that was tied into AT&T and then, even after the reports that an update could brick a hacked phone, proceed to hack it. Tough shit!

No sympathy

I have no sympathy simply because they were too stupid to realise that it was a waste of money in the first place. People buy a phone which they KNOW is tied to a particular network and that they will HAVE to hack to make it work elsewhere and then are somehow surprised when the hacks break their I-Bricks?

Despite the fact that the I-Phone is overrated and overpriced (as with most Apple products) they still bought it, then hacked it. Why not just get a decent phone that doesn't need to be hacked to use on a different network? (Nokia N95 for example has almost all the same abilities as an I-Brick without the Apple ties)

Who cares...?

My Windows Mobile device works on any network. I just swap the SIM.

Hehe

Craig

It's simple. Don't use the stuff.

Don't buy hardware that has such restrictive bullshit tied into it.

If you dont' support it, it won't become popular and therefore they won't be tempted to try the same tactic again.

I haven't found a good reason to buy an iPhone yet, and I do like gadgets.

I think Apple deserves spanking by its customers for treating them like crap however-as folks buy stuff to use and Apple decides to act like an asshole just to keep the old backhander relationship going with AT&T. Vote with your feet, use anything else instead.

Just a viewpoint :-). I'm sure there are Apple diehards who'll take anything Apple delivers as gospel.

No, the "don't feel sorry" lot miss the point

The last time I had a device in my hand that could suffer physical damage via software was 20years ago - a Psion Organiser II. And you had to be damn good to make the condition appear.

The problem is the PERMANENT damage to the phone. If the phones would have simply done a 'back to basics' reset (i.e. undone the software hack) that would have been fine - alternatively, some support to get to that stage would also be good.

However, the problem is here that (a) software hacks were deliberately targeted (I'll come back to that) and (b) also some NON-HACKED phones suffered damage. With respect to (a), this is going to be interesting for Apple to defend, because their bundling is illegal in the EU which means they will have to choose between foregoing that market altogether or providing proof that (a) was deliberate. There is no in-between option, no weaselling out, so I think they screwed up.

I'm OK with the fact that unlockers got their fingers burned, even though I disagree with how Apple is trying to eat from every market possible they can do so, those unlockers knew what they were facing (it's not like it wasn't public knowledge).

However, to permanently wreck the devices is not on so I hope they get trounced in the class action suit.

Not a chance

Gotta love America.. lets sue over this..

Why?

Why not!?

Blimey, get over it, they said they were going to do it, they did it, you updated your phone and it no longer works.... they should sue you for being utterly, utterly stupid.

I'd also hardly say that Apple have such a small share of the PC market, they are the 3rd largest in the US and the only one growing on a large scale, whereas worldwide they're 4th:

HP 16.3%

Dell 16.1%

Lenovo 7.5%

Apple 5.9%

Toshiba 4.3%

(From: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/06/10/18/apples_share_of_us_pc_market_jumps_to_61_percent.html)

And that was 12 months ago, and lets be honest they've had a massive year again this year...

@Astarte

I think you're missing the point. Apple are well aware that they have a small share as a result of locking things down, and it doesn't bother them as much as the reduced stability of "open" systems.

Apple seem to be more interested in providing a "good" service to fewer people - one of the biggest reasons for instabilities in Windows is that it's not a well defined platform - it's also the reason that I need to go hunting for a floppy disk and install CDs to get my PC working when I do reinstall (floppy for SATA RAID, install media for network card).

How quickly some people forget.

When Steve W and Steve J launched the Apple II back in the 70's they included in the box the Apple Reference Manual. This included complete circuit diagrams of the PC, ROM listings, details on memory and hardware configurations.. pretty much everything. It was the bible on how the Apple was made and worked.

Other companies were able to write software, design hardware (don't forget it had expansion slots). The Apple II went on to be one of the most successful computers of all time. It could do anything!

Alas, I suspect a lot of the ethos from that era came from Steve Wozniak.

Go on Stevie J. Let other people play with your new toy. For old times sake.

Who's forcing who?

I wasn't aware that people were forced into buying iPhones not knowing that they'd be stuck with Apple's terms and conditions.

It's the users' choice to buy into Apple's stupid business practice. I don't see this getting anywhere...

RE: Narrow Minded

I couldn't have put it better myself.

Everybody who comes into my office gazes appreciatively over my nice Mac Pro and 30" setup, but they wouldn't touch it with a bargepole because of the FUD that comes with getting involved with Apple products.

Fan Boys, where are you now?

Funny isn't it? When Apple show their true colours the fan boys evaporate.

It's your choice; Microsoft/Open Source with all of the attendant problems, or Apple who KNOW you are stupid enough to take what they give you. Spend your money wisely and accept the consequences of your mistakes.

RE: A Way Out

Flashing back to defaults; totally agree.

Network locking in the EU; I don't get you. We have the same laws in the EU (under different guise) that this case is about, but the iPhone is still going to be locked to our respective carriers.

No Sympathy

Whether you believe that the phone should be unlocked, or stay locked, that's not your choice. It's the choice of whoever makes the product. I'm no Apple nut, but I do believe that it's the people that make and design products who should have the say in who does or doesn't get to mess with it (law permitting).

Of course, if you don't agree with that, you can always exercise your consumer rights by not buying it in the first place, and spending your money on a product that lets you do that sort of thing.

Oh dear oh dear...

here's what i believe has gone on....

apple produce the iPhone... get lots of money from AT&T to keep it exclusive to them...

What is the best way of protecting that income?

They have made people afraid to hack the firmware... who realistically is going to go out in the next couple of months, buy a iphone and hack the firmware? who is ever going to do it now that they know they could end up with a brick.

I would not even be surprised if the hacker group that developed the hack was funded by apple.. not only that, how much money had they made from the hack?

I was always a bit suspicious about the way they sold the hack. lots of little back street shops who deal in unlocking phones will have a big stack of licenses for unlocking iphones they will probably never sell now..

if the hack altered the part of the firmware which uploads the firmware, then i can understand how the product was made into a brick...if not, then apples firmware update must contain malicious code.

anyway, is it not common practice for a base version of firmware to be held in ROM to replace the existing firmware if it became corrupt? the cost of this would be minimal, and would in the long term cost less than shipping products back to base for a flash... you could also say that not having this feature is a design flaw,

ha ha ha ha ha :-)

so apple customers finally turn?

the people who love apple - the people who think apple's sh*t doesn't stink - the people who laugh at the rest of the world for being bill gates "sheep" finally decide that they've been hard done by....

you bought a piece of overhyped underspec'd junk that has turned around and bitten you - you deserve everything you get...

go and buy a nokia - go and buy a htc - go and buy pretty much EVERY other phone...!!!! yet again, Apple's predisposition to believing that it can choose it's own customers mean it will never be anything other than a quirky little sidenote in the history books...

It's an Apple thing...

Us Mac "Fan-boys" are reading... and laughing at how much a lot of you guys don't get it.

It's great if you want to modify and update etc... but that's not why you buy an Apple product. You buy Apple because it works really well. Whether it's OS X to edit video and make music or, now, the iPhone to do all the fun stuff it can do, we sacrifice some functionality (and yes, even choice) for stability - and Apple products are stable, no doubt.

There are loads of Windows and Linux users who want to hack, and I think that's really cool, but Apple goes to great pains to keep control not just for financial reasons (some guy above takes much delight explaining why Apple "failed" on the desktop wars due to a locked down system, costing them billions), but because they truly believe that a (mostly) locked down system gives a better user experience. You guys may disagree, but there has to be (and sales indicate that there is) a market for these products (niche though it might be) and that is where Apple comfortably resides. I don't see the need for people to be so partisan - if you don't fancy an iPhone (contract and all), don't buy it (but I love mine).

I admit Apple are not perfect, but trust me when I say that if my computer was hooked up to a life support machine keeping me alive, I'd want it to be a Mac... or even an unmodified iPhone - it might cost me more money, but I fancy my chances of survival. :)

Why sue Apple?

Instead of sue the people who bought the iPhone?

If somebody comes to me and says: "Hey.. You want to buy me this hiperhypedDevice locked, that can only do what i want when i want?", obviously i would not buy it... it could die of dust suffocation on the shop shelf.

um, Nokia isn't a saint either,

@ Paul

Nokia isn't blameless in this either. They sold the Nokia E62 thru AT&T (Cingular). Cingular proceeded to lock out features regarding "unsigned" apps, only allowing certain Cingular licensed developers to get this digital signature. So the only fix was to download European image which allowed the device to work as advertised. Cingular didn't like that, so now, anywhere you go, the Nokia E62 is the *only* phone you cannot use the automatic software update utility on. There is no option or software support for the device on Nokia's European or American sites. it's like the phone never really existed.

This is why AT&T was broken up, why they should not have been allowed to re-coalesce. AT&T/Cingular (Stinkular) ruined the E62, ruined the iPhone, and there's no real alternative for people who rely on their phone and travel in the US. (You think that T-Mobile really owns all their own towers and landline links, or leases 'em from AT&T like everyone else?)

If there's one thing these comments prove

it's that the IT industry is just as full of idiots as any other industry.

The anti-Apple brigade are pretty funny. The amount of venom they spew over a computer brand says a lot about the richness of their lives.

For the record, I have owned a PowerBook, MacBook Pro, three iPods, and an iPhone, and I have never had any significant problems with any of these products. Never had to re-install the operating system, never had to deal with spyware or adware, never had to deal with wacky Linux driver issues to get my mouse working.

The people who call these products "overpriced", compared to what? Calculating the number of hours over the years I've wasted dealing with Windows' various problems and Linux's idiosyncracies, switching to OSX has paid for itself many times over.

Why sue them?

Why are Apple being sued at all?

It's my understanding that damaging other people's property is a CRIMINAL offence, not a civil one. Why not just call the police?

Caveat emport (well in the UK anyway)

There is no legal requirement in the UK for a provider/supplier to unlock the mobile phone they sold you when your contract expires unless the T&Cs say they definitely will.

Most do.. for a fee. (I'm sure there is a good business reason why - it can't be because they're nice).

Apple get a percentage of call revenue and I'm guessing that at the end of the contract you will have no option but to continue with O2 if you want to make calls.. Apple will most probably have that in the O2 contract.

In markets where they can legally keep the phone tied to a network after contract expiry, they will. If it means bricking phones that have left the fold, they will.

As a few people have stated.. you haven't got to buy an iPhone.

I think, regrettably, this is one battle that Apple will win.

Rights?

I know it's just like *so* nineteenth century, but the fact is there are some rights you have, and some you don't; and there are some that people appear to be making up out of whole cloth.

Whether or not Apple are right to lock their phones or not I don't know and don't much care. But they're not under any obligation to You The Consumer to make any specific product in any specific way. They've chosen to make these phones and lock them. If you buy one, you buy it lock and all. If you then choose to attack it to try to remove or modify its design, then you have *absolutely no comeback* if either you break it in doing so; or if they (deliberately or not) push an upgrade that wouldn't have broken it if you hadn't buggered about with it.

The idea that you must automatically have some nebulous right to have everything you want on exactly the terms you want it is a relatively recent notion, the rise of which seems (although maybe I'm just being an old fart here) to correspond to some extent to the increasing rejection in our society of things like respect and responsibility.

As several sensible people have pointed out, the real answer is simple enough: if you don't like Apple's business practices then Don't Buy Apple.