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back to article PostgreSQL trumpets 8.4 release

The open source project behind the PostgreSQL relational database is blowing its nose trumpeting the availability of PostgresSQL 8.4, a rev that includes 293 new or improved features that make the database easier to administer and more useful to programmers and end users. The new code, which is available for download here, was …

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  1. E 2

    Funny thing about Postgres

    The power of marketing: psql has always been ahead of mysql in features and standards support - previous to mysql 5 I'd say the lead on features & standards was significant.

    I do not mean to say mysql was crap, it was quite good enough for web apps which creators valued speed above all. They did not think they needed relational integrity in addition to speed, and it seems many web programmers used to thing a join was better done in the scripting language using multiple dbms queries. Psql always provided SQL compliance far in excess of mysql.

    Yet mysql had better mindshare - I suspect it tied into the 'my' thing: My Computer, My Documents, My Pictures, MySQL. Mine mine mine, so self affirming. Whereas 'postgre', what that?

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  2. Anonymous Coward
    Troll

    @Funny thing about Postgres

    Go on say it. Oh nevermind, I'll do it for you.

    MySQL was crap.

    The only good thing was it provided the bare minimum of features for a web application and was fast. (Which was enough, and the rest is history).

    Lets face it the majority of web monkeys should not be allowed to write complicated SQL statements anyway.

    AC, because I want to avoid the wrath of the web monkeys.

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  3. DrXym

    My problem with MySQL

    MySQL seems alright but what worries me is that rather than fix the engine, they augmented it with other engines. And each engine has its own quirks and things it does or doesn't do. There are so many engines now with overlapping feature sets that the profusion choice is overwhelming. It just seems such a mess.

    PostgreSQL has always tried to be correct from the get go even if its performance suffered in certain scenarios. I have enough trouble developing my own without worrying if the database is goin to crap out. I might use MySQL for serving up data in non-critical things like forums but I absolutely wouldn't trust it for anything more.

    Even so, I think its a good idea to hedge a little, so even if I did stump with PostgreSQL, I would use something like Hibernate to sit over the top. It makes it relatively easy to switch databases later which is always a good thing. There is nothing worse than trying to move from one DB to another if your code is infected with SQL.

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  4. Geoff Mackenzie
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    Yay! New PostgreSQL!

    Can't wait to take it for a spin. The best RDBMS I've ever used, and although I do use MySQL here and there, I always come back to PostgreSQL for 'serious' stuff. Solid, portable and full featured.

    Not a paid shill - just proving I don't hate all software! :-)

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  5. CD001

    the key word being...

    ----

    MySQL was crap.

    The only good thing was it provided the bare minimum of features for a web application and was fast. (Which was enough, and the rest is history).

    ----

    The important word in that statement is FAST. When I started cocking about in web app dev *coughs* years ago everyone was still on dial-up (56k if you were lucky) and whilst your back-end is largely irrelevant to the punter in front of their PC, get enough punters and you'll take any slight hike in speed that you can get.

    That's why, when this really clean, uncluttered, trimmed down search engine came along we were all like "wow, look how quick it loads... and it just does the search... that's mint!" - that, of course was Google.

    So while PostGRES has always been better than MySQL, MySQL had that "it just does the few things I want, and it does them quickly" kind of feel that was needed for websites at the time.

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  6. Charlie Clark Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Installed it on site yesterday

    @ E 2

    Isn't that the case with so many good things? On the one hand those of us who discover them rejoice that mailing lists and forums aren't full of totally (just relatively) clueless idiots asking the same stupid questions. On the other it means fewer reference books* for the good stuff and a proliferation for the shit plus the perpetuation of bad practice. MyASM's missing support for foreign key constraints (and the automatic creation of indices for them) is probably responsible for the idea that joins are inherently slow and the crappy programming that results from this myth.

    Having just installed Posgres on a customer's development machine it has to be said that providing a native windows build is probably essential to get take up outside the core geek market.

    * A couple of tomes which I've found useful:

    "Beginning databases with PostgreSQL" Matthew & Stones, Apress

    "Practical Issues in Database Management" Pascal, Addison Wesley

    "SQL and Relational Theory" Date, O'Reilly

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  7. Kevin Bailey

    Well done to the PG guys/gals

    Just like to publicly say thanks for a brilliant database which we can use and deploy everywhere without licensing costs.

    We replaced an Access back-end with a PG DB running on Debian and then didn't hear from the client for four years. The machine had behaved perfectly all that time (unlike the Acess DB which used to get corrupted daily).

    They only called again because of being forced to 'upgrade' to Access 2007. When they tried to open their Acess 2003 front end it all went horribly wrong. They called us because the PG server had worked so well.

    Whole system has been replaced with a Zend/PHP/Smarty/MVC based app - and good 'ol PG is still the DB underneath. Being able to have dev/live/test/training/demo versions for no extra license costs is brilliant.

    It'll take a while - but quality shines through in the end.

    Thanks again for all the hard work.

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  8. Mark Pitchless

    Hosting support

    I'd say another big reason for mysql being everywhere is hosting support. I'd guess alot more offer MySQL than PostgreSQL. For all those users that want to dump a PHP gallery, forum, cms, chat room etc, etc into their web space and hook it up to a DB. Which snowballs, if your writing such an app your going to target MySQL so more people can use it. E.g. gallery2 supported lots of db, but for gallery3 the devs have decided to only target MySQL.

    Sadly all this has contributed to generally poor database understanding and use from developers. It makes you want to cry when you see the schema behind some common web apps.

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  9. David 141

    Windows?

    "Having just installed Posgres on a customer's development machine it has to be said that providing a native windows build is probably essential to get take up outside the core geek market."

    Why would non-geeks want a commerical grade RDBMS? It's a bit overkill for shopping lists.

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  10. Josh Berkus

    I didn't decide it myself ...

    Timothy,

    Actually, I didn't decide to delay the release *by myself*. We have a 7-person release team (the "Core Team") which decided to delay it. I'm on that team, but there's 6 other people.

    --Josh Berkus

    PostgreSQL Project

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  11. Michael Schmidt
    Thumb Up

    PostgreSQL is great, 8.4 looks super

    PostgreSQL is entirely free whereas there was a fee if you bundled MySQL with an app. PostgreSQL has a very long development history and is stable. It is ACID compliant from the ground up and adheres better to SQL standards than most. MySQL gains speed at the expense of reliability and there is some doubt as to whether it is really faster in a high traffic environment. MySQL may have a broader user base but there are a lot of folks who are quietly using PostgreSQL. I know of a company in Denver that uses PostgreSQL in extremely high traffic e-mail applications. I also just saw that MusicBrainz uses it. The big problem early on was that PostgreSQL wasn't available for Windows, but that has been addressed and I think it is now, deservedly, taking off.

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