back to article Let's check in with Samsung to see how it's riding out the memory glut. Operating profit down 56%. Oops.

Samsung Electronics has estimated that operating profit for its second calendar quarter of 2019 will fall by a whopping 56 per cent due to continued crappy demand for memory chips. The preliminary numbers were outlined today: revenue is projected to fall 4.2 per cent to ₩56 trillion ($47.6bn) and income from operations is …

  1. a_yank_lurker

    Unsurprised

    As markets mature supply and demand will get out of whack as companies overproduce.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Unsurprised

      Not sure why the Reg continues to misunderstand how memory markets (and basic economics) work and keep writing stories claiming Samsung's falling profit is to due to "crappy demand" for memory chips. It is due to oversupply causing low prices. I'll bet they are selling more gigabytes of flash and RAM than ever before, demand is fine.

      1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

        Re: Unsurprised

        But where does the overproductin come from? You have to provision for the expected demand and this has been lower than expected across the industry.

        It's one of the reasons for conglomerates who hope that aggregate demand across a range of industries is less fickle than any individual industry.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Unsurprised

          It can be more expensive to leave fabs idle than to overproduce and sell at a loss - so long as the loss you make selling them is less than the amortization on the $10+ billion fab.

          And there are so few competitors now that oversupply isn't causing memory makers to lose money like they used to, now they still make money just a lot less than they do when in undersupply.

          1. Craig 2

            Re: Unsurprised

            "Basic Economics" is easy when looking at historical supply and demand. Reliably extrapolating those trends into the future is not quite so simple....

            Also, operating a fab at a loss and flooding the market could work in Samsung's favour if it manages to bankrupt a weaker competitor. Who knows if they are an innocent victim of market forces or if they are actually manipulating the market....

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: Unsurprised

              That's been done before which is why there are only 3-4 memory vendors now. They are all massive, so flooding the market and selling below cost isn't going to drive anyone out of business anymore. They will however invite trade actions for dumping, which is illegal for this very reason. When there were 20 competitors it was easy to fly under the radar, but no longer.

        2. Cuddles

          Re: Unsurprised

          "But where does the overproductin come from? You have to provision for the expected demand and this has been lower than expected across the industry."

          A big issue is the future. As DougS' notes, everyone is almost certainly selling more memory than ever before. But production is quantised to a large extent - if you expect demand to increase by 1% each year, you can't build a small factory every year to meet exactly that expected demand. Instead, you build a massive fab that will add 20% to your overall production. And once that starts operating, you're now producing more than there is demand for for at least a couple of years until demand catches back up again.

          This is why there's been a consistent pattern of oversupply and low prices, followed by undersupply and high prices. Demand increases more-or-less continuously, but supply can only follow it in sudden jumps - supply falls behind until it's enough to justify the cost a new factory, at which point it leapfrogs demand and has to wait for it to catch up again. As long as demand for chips keeps increasing and fabs remain multi-billion pound investments, there's no real way for that to change.

  2. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    So, when profit falls, hire 15,000 people

    Well that sounds like perfect timing. Well done there.

    I get then that, when profits return to sky-high levels, there will be massive layoffs ?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: So, when profit falls, hire 15,000 people

        And that's one reason bank loans are needed.

        People who go on about evil fiat currencies, evil bankers and the rest should remember that growth tends to require up-front investment, which requires borrowing.

      2. ds6 Silver badge
        Alert

        Re: So, when profit falls, hire 15,000 people

        Uh-oh, the Pascal's are fighting again...

  3. Jove Bronze badge

    Market demand slowing ...

    ... numerous reports of the growth in demand having declined in 2017 (most recent peak year) and 2018, with projections for 2019 predicting that growth will reverse sharply.

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