back to article Microsoft Windows 10 'Burger King' build 1903: Have it your way... and it may still leave a nasty taste in your mouth

Microsoft on Tuesday released Windows 10, version 1903, aka the May 2019 Update, without forcing it on folks. As mentioned last month, the US software super-biz has decided to let users of its operating system have more say in how and when updates get applied. The new humility comes after hearing feedback that update problems …

  1. Sureo
    Mushroom

    That burger will give you heartburn .... just like Windows updates.

    1. jake Silver badge

      Only if you choose to partake of it ... just like Windows updates.

    2. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      I get the ones that have more meat in them.

      1. Spanners Silver badge
        Linux

        @bombastic bob

        I like to know what is in my burger.

        1. gnarlymarley

          Re: @bombastic bob

          I like to know what is in my burger.

          And the hackers too want to know what is in your burger......

        2. Robert Moore
          Flame

          Re: @bombastic bob

          I like to know what is in my burger."

          That seems like a really bad idea to me. You will enjoy it more if you don't know.

          1. jake Silver badge

            Re: @bombastic bob

            Actually, I enjoy it more because I DO know. Side benefit of raising your own meat is that you are in complete control of the source. Unlike the clusterfuck from Redmond.

          2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: @bombastic bob

            You will enjoy it more if you don't know

            It's safe to assume (unless you buy a premium burger or make them yourself) that it contains quite a quantity of Pink Goo..

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Still not on 1809

    Though it is marked as installable update in our company's update-center-panel-thing it cannot be installed. The files were removed as there were some known issues.

    Not holding my breath that this update will be quicker.

  3. Mark 85

    "If Windows detects that your machine cannot start up successfully, it will try to diagnose and resolve failures due to disk issues, system file corruption, invalid registry keys, or other such causes,"

    So if the Update itself is a POS, it won't be able to resolve? Remove even? Hmmm.... looks like from the list, it's "blame the user or the user's IT department.

    It also appears that Win10 now has the Win7 ability to control updates. So when Win7 end of life rolls around will there be one-last massive update (hidden of course) to force the "upgrade" to Win10.

    1. sabroni Silver badge
      Facepalm

      The pricks!

      Trying to fix things when they fuck them up. This is evidence that they are bastards!

      1. jake Silver badge

        Re: The pricks!

        No, sabroni, they are not trustworthy because they constantly release very badly broken code. It's like they have no QA department at all, and really don't give a shit about public perception. One wonders how much longer the corporate world will allow this to continue before they start screaming ENOUGH!

        Redmond, perfecting the art of slowly bringing frogs to a boil since 1975 ...

        1. Peter2 Silver badge

          Re: The pricks!

          One wonders how much longer the corporate world will allow this to continue before they start screaming ENOUGH!

          You do realise that by far and by large the corporate world took one look at Win10, shuddered, said "no ******* way are we using that" and proceeded to stick with Win7, right?

          At the moment given the corporate use of Win10 is negligible, the pressure is also negligible. The screaming is going to start with the first botched set of updates to Win10 after it's deployed. Win7 support ends January IIRC, so give them 12 months to migrate after support ends (consider the slow pace of moving off WinXP for corporates) plus 6 months to run into problems caused by Win10 causing a few million man hours (person hours these days?) productivity losses, and then wait for the impressive fireworks.

          1. Dave K

            Re: The pricks!

            Although I agree with the first part of your post, the second is not true. Many firms have finally made the move to windows 10, or are in the process of deploying. Do they want to use it? Probably not. Do they have to? As Windows 7 approaches EOL, the answer (sadly) is yes.

            1. whitepines
              Big Brother

              Re: The pricks!

              Do they have to?

              South Korea took the red pill and said (roughly) "nope, don't have to, time to cuddle some penguins instead".

              Microsoft would like you to think you're in a prison they control. The reality is, well, we're all less in Microsoft's prison and more in Google's these days...

              Sigh.

            2. jake Silver badge

              Re: The pricks!

              "Do they have to? As Windows 7 approaches EOL, the answer (sadly) is yes."

              Have to? Really? Who is holding a gun to the head of their firstborn?

              I think the phrase you really mean is "they choose to".

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: The pricks!

                >Who is holding a gun to the head of their firstborn?

                In our case, it's the Cabinet Office. Can't run anything on the estate unless it's being maintained (with some exceptions for s/w tied to very expensive h/w). Cyber Essentials y'know.

                1. jake Silver badge

                  Re: The pricks!

                  "In our case, it's the Cabinet Office."

                  One of many reasons I refuse to bid on .gov contracts anymore.

              2. Dave K

                Re: The pricks!

                For many organisations, a deep-rooted reliance on Windows-only software is unfortunately still very much present. Migrating to a none-Windows platform is usually very difficult and expensive as countless existing applications need to be replaced. This is why it is often not a feasible option for companies.

                Yes, it sucks and yes, I wish builds of many essential programs were available for other OSs, but they're not. So, companies now have three options: Stick with an OS that is about to become unsupported (very stupid indeed), migrate to a Linux distro and have lots of essential legacy apps fail to work (major business problems), bite the bullet and migrate to Windows 10.

                All are crap options, but for many companies, W10 is the least crap options. Although it is still crap.

                1. whitepines
                  Big Brother

                  Re: The pricks!

                  bite the bullet and migrate to Windows 10.

                  Surely you meant:

                  Migrate to Windows 10 and have Microsoft and its "special partners" pilfer all your sensitive business data (major delayed business problems) ?

                  I think we all know here that all it would take is one large customer demanding <X> software package on Linux, with the threat of developing an in-house replacement, to magically have a Linux version appear. Or multiple small organizations working on an open replacement (it's not common, but it has happened before).

                2. jake Silver badge

                  Re: The pricks!

                  Or, bite the bullet and make the move to Linux today, and not have to worry about the capriciousness of Microsoft's marketing department in the future.

                  I have Vet clinics here in the Bay Area that I moved from Windows to a version of Slackware in 1999. I also had clinics who chose to stick with Windows.

                  The Slackware side just keeps on trucking, with absolutely seamless updates and zero security theater. The systems never go down unless told to go down. The only calls I get from these folks is for hardware issues (PEE CEEs and attendant peripherals aren't exactly well known for their reliability, when measured in terms of many years in a high hair/fur environment). The only formal training they received was back in 1999. They have no on-site administrator, as there is no need.

                  The Windows side, which I no longer support, has been nothing but trouble, especially whenever Microsoft rolls a revision out the door, and when the malware du jour strolls past their defenses. These systems are down for what totals weeks every year, crash fairly regularly, and need constant hand-holding by an employee who does nothing but look after the system. The only reason I know what's going on with them is because the Vets call me fairly regularly, asking if I can't PLEASE come look at their computers. I decline. I don't do Windows anymore.

                  It's pretty funny, at rad-rounds the Slackware folks are all on one side of the room, and the Windows folks are on the other ... The Slackware people don't want to listen to the constant bitching about Windows from the other side of the room.

                  What is mind boggling is the Vets using Windows insist that they HAVE TO "because compatibility" ... despite how that is obviously bullshit, given their compadres have been happily using Linux for about 20 years now.

                  Some crap options are much better long-term than other crap options.

      2. Dan 55 Silver badge
        Terminator

        Re: The pricks!

        Will it be like last autumn's update?

        "Windows has found a problem and fixed it by wiping your documents folder. Have a nice day."

    2. J. R. Hartley

      Win 7 to Win 10?!

      From my cold, dead hands.

  4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge
    Big Brother

    You will comply or...

    Come June, Microsoft will automatically update devices running the Home and Pro editions of Windows 10, version 1803 (Windows 10 April 2018 Update) to ensure service continues past November 12, 2019.

    Mommy Microsoft knows best then... Get your nappy changed before having something else to eat.

    That's what all this seems like to me.

    I'm so glad that I got off the leaky old tub that is SS Microsoft a good time ago. Much more of this and it might actually sink.

    1. LenG

      Re: You will comply or...

      So, given that I am running 1709, will it leave me alone?

  5. JakeMS
    Thumb Up

    How does it run?

    So, how would this version of Windows 10 run on our high-end EPOS* hardware (2GB RAM, AMD C-70 APU)?

    * For the curious, it's currently running Arch Linux using in-house EPOS software quite smoothly. It does its job.

    1. GreenReaper

      Re: How does it run?

      Probably not great, but usable if you don't expect a miracle. I have an E-350 in a netbook which is much the same CPU, two Bobcat cores, just clocked a bit faster. You'd want an SSD and *ideally* another 4GB stick of RAM, though.

  6. big_D Silver badge

    Got it...

    on WSUS this morning, when I got to work. I am rolling them out to our test group - I already have one VM on 1903 through the Insider Programme, but we have a bunch of VMs and test PCs scattered about the business for testing the updates work with our software toolset.

  7. UkSingh

    Windows 1903 background horror

    Windows 1903 defaults to a new light blue background which looks rubbish.

    The old default darker background is no longer available.

    One step forward and two steps back.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Windows 1903 background horror

      You can click / tap custom colour then more and enter the RGB value for any colour you like.

      1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

        Yes, but why should he have to ? Why does an update go and change a default ?

        Oh, silly me, it's Windows, so duh.

        1. phuzz Silver badge

          "Oh, silly me, it's Windows software, so duh."

          FTFY

          Every desktop OS changes backgrounds and colour schemes from time to time (or pretty much every major version in the case of Mint). I think it's because they think you might forget that you've upgraded otherwise.

          1. David Nash Silver badge

            they think you might forget that you've upgraded

            But an automatic Windows 10 Update is not "upgrading".

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: they think you might forget that you've upgraded

              But it's not automatic...

    2. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Pete4000uk

        Re: Windows 1903 background horror

        They not be the only ones...

    3. Mark Manderson

      Re: Windows 1903 background horror

      omg the horror, showstopper for prod ring!

      quick stop the deploy...oh we force corp backgrounds, thank f for that!

      if thats the only issue your finding, go have a beer and say thank F for that!

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Windows 1903 background horror

        Forcing corp backgrounds always struck me as a bit too Agent Orange for my liking.

        1. Dan 55 Silver badge
          Facepalm

          Re: Windows 1903 background horror

          Clockwork Orange. Hope the upvote was because someone knew what I meant...

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Windows 1903 background horror

          Screensavers often used by internal comms teams to reinforce key corporate messages. Nothing wrong with that, but backgrounds should be in control of the user.

          1. 's water music

            Re: Windows 1903 background horror

            Screensavers often used by internal comms teams to reinforce key corporate messages

            PwC used to periodically reinforce the message that internal comms always pick shitty developers to create their screen savers by ramming though yet another one that causes a P1 because it is a massive resource hog or some such nonsense. I expect they are not alone

      2. katrinab Silver badge

        Re: Windows 1903 background horror

        As far as I'm aware, it changes the default theme. If you aren't using the default theme, then it will continue to use whatever you are using.

        1. Geoffrey W

          Re: Windows 1903 background horror

          Shush...let the penguins have their fun. All nits must be picked till they're down to the bones...

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    And it brings support for the RAW image format

    Say waa??

    Are MircoGit turning into car makers? Removing features from new models and then reintroducing them as upgrades??

    I had RAW format support back in WinXP FFS !!! (might have been a 3rd party addon).

    1. Timmy B

      Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

      Let me translate that for you:

      "I don't understand. Microsoft are adding features that in the past required third party software.

      How unreasonable of them."

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

        >"I don't understand. Microsoft are adding features that in the past required third party software.

        Unfortunately they are the shit ones that you don't want which cannot be removed even with one metric tonne of TNT.

        1. Mark Manderson
          Facepalm

          Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

          yep because Ms implementation of flash is worse than adobe swiss cheese release....or JRE? ok then ;)

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "adding features that in the past required third party software."

        Sorry, MS made available for Vista and 7 the Microsoft Camera Codec Pack which enabled RAW files support for several camera formats - no third party software needed. IIRC it was later integrated as an optional update for Windows 8.

        Then Microsoft stopped to keep it updated for new cameras RAW files - and removed it from Windows 10.

        The codecs were built on Windows Imaging Components (WIC) which was also supported on XP with SP2 (and added in SP3).

        http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26829

        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/wic/-wic-rawguidelines

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

        As I said, it might have been a 3rd party addon.

        IF I am remembering correctly, I could view the photos saved in Fuji .raw format and Nikon .raw format via file explorer, but needed a 3rd party addon to actually do anything but look at them.

        I was hoping someone might be able to remember better than I can; i cannot rely on my memory any longer, some medication and a brain injury has screwed it up in some cases.

        it iss too much effort to fire up a spare PC and install WinXP just to find out.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          "As I said, it might have been a 3rd party addon."

          Cameras software often installed RAW codecs for 32 bit XP - but many of them were never ported to 64-bit Windows and later versions.

          "but needed a 3rd party addon to actually do anything but look at them."

          There's little you can do with RAW files - usually they can't be edited directly - especially since they are not a common format, and some information need to be reconstructed when "demosaicing" them.

          Editors convert them usually in a common RGB format to be able to process them regardless of the source. Changes need to be saved in a separate file, or be recorded to be reapplied later. Iin the latter case they can sometimes be recorded inside the RAW file - RAW files are usually a container using TIFF specification (or something alike) and besides the raw sensor data can store other information - but again it's very specific to a format, and not broadly supported.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

      And RAW is not *one* format. It's a generic term that encompasses plenty of different formats, for different brands/models of cameras, evolving as their hardware capacities do. Even the same extension for a given brand can mean different things depending what model produces it.

      1. Andy The Hat Silver badge

        Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

        ... so what does "RAW support" actually mean? Perhaps it's a dialogue that reads "Unknown RAW format"?

        1. Korev Silver badge
          Joke

          Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

          It's the noise that Tigers make

          1. BigSLitleP
            Trollface

            Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

            Tigers go ROWR, your Mum feels RAW.

        2. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: And it brings support for the RAW image format

          It means the raw unprocessed data from the camera's sensors, which is obviously different for every camera as they have different sensors.

  9. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. Anonymous Coward Silver badge
      Paris Hilton

      Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

      To me, 'uninstallable' means that I can uninstall (ie remove) it. It seems like it means something different to you, unless you think that all non-core apps should be mandatory?

      1. bombastic bob Silver badge
        Unhappy

        Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

        'uninstallable' = "can be uninstalled". That is a *HUGE* gripe that I have with the built-ins. GETTING RID OF THEM is damn-near impossible. Well, maybe not now.

        But here's the thing: Micro-shaft took away NEARLY EVERYTHING GOOD (particularly customization) from the users, replaced it with "uber alles what MS wants", and THEN let the dust settle. NOW, they're "slowly giving back our freedom" it seems, like some kind of sick/twisted perestroika.

        Is this an OVERALL STRATEGY? You know, like a GAMBIT - 2 steps forward, one step back [in the direction Micro-shaft wants, of course]. MS wants to take over AND maintain control, and after taking too much, loosen's the reins a little so that the "stockholm syndrome" (end users liking their evil overlords for "giving them back something" after taking it all away) will work properly, boiling the frogs slowly instead of tossing them into the pot like lobsters.

        Win-10-nic is STILL "doing it wrong", the lipstick might be on the OINKY end now, but it's still a BOAR, and it's still JUST LIPSTICK.

        let us not forget:

        a) 2D FLATASS FLATSO FLUGLY McFLATFACE

        b) "Settings" vs Control Panel

        c) ADWARE and SPYWARE _BUILT_ _IN_

        d) "The Store"

        e) "Start Thing" with TILES and cumbersome UI to UN-DO the @#$% thing

        f) Forced Updates - no longer 'forced' they say...

        g) Phone-like GUI on a DESKTOP

        h) "The Metro" in general, UWP and 'all that' *EXCREMENT*

        i) ONLY PAID CERT SIGNING for driver developers [even open source]

        j) Embrace Extend Extinguish - their somewhat pathetic Linux on Windows attempt (have you seen Cygwin? It's been around for YEARS)

        the list is longer but I think that's "a good start". There are always things I forget to mention, so many of them it's hard to keep track of them all...

      2. keith_w

        Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

        My first thought when I read that was "What? you can't install the default MS Apps?" Then I realized that it meant that you could remove them.

      3. Terry 6 Silver badge

        Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

        Yeah. I misread it.

        Mia Culpa

        Maybe MS have actually listened(?)

    2. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

      Ununinstallable?

    3. This post has been deleted by its author

    4. LenG

      Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

      This phrasing seems to be causing all sorts of difficulties. At first I read it that I could not install built-in apps, which is nonsensical. But I think it actually means that non-core built-ins can be removed. Maybe I can finally delete that bloody shop.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Tells us a lot....attitude

        I'm not a betting man but I'd put quite a lot of money on that shop not going anywhere.

  10. Baldrickk
    Unhappy

    This update...

    My biggest problem with it is - it won't install. Just fails and rolls back.

    > The latest update separates Cortana from the Windows Search box,

    Yay! I don't need a voice assistant on a desktop

    > a move made in preparation for the foretold unification of search across Bing, Office 365 and Windows.

    Aww Hell.

    If I want to search the web. I'll open the browser. STOP FING UP SEARCH EVEN MORE MS!

    > It makes more Windows built-in apps uninstallable.

    wait... does this mean we can remove more, or we can't install/uninstall them

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Windows

    Running 20H1 here

    It's 6 months louder

  12. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    What was that ?

    "Cable said Microsoft's "measured and throttled approach" reflects the company's commitment to provide customers with more control of and more transparency into avoid another tsunami of angst with an update process that now incorporates a longer period of testing."

    That's more like it.

  13. adam payne

    Looking at the release health page was funny. Along with the usual driver compatibility issues is a funny one.

    Error attempting to update with external USB device or memory card attached.

    If you have an external USB device or SD memory card attached when installing Windows 10, version 1903, you may get an error message stating "This PC can't be upgraded to Windows 10." This is caused by inappropriate drive reassignment during installation.

  14. Alan Bourke

    "I'm so glad I got off Windows"

    "And onto this mythical OS that never has any issues with upgrades and is perfect in every way, and suits the fact that I have little or no requirement to run any software that might be required in the worlds of business or gaming."

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "I'm so glad I got off Windows"

      @Alan_Bourne

      *

      Well, about "perfect in every way" and "run any software that might be required". Some of us quite like Adam Osborne's dictum: "Adequacy is enough". In my case, RedHat 5.1 (1999) through Fedora30 (2019) has proved "adequate" to ALL MY NEEDS. This does not mean that everything has always been "perfect"....it hasn't. But with a little patience, and a modest amount of technical skill, I've been able to do everything I needed to do for twenty years. Without any help from Redmond WA. And a good deal cheaper on certain fronts too (C compilers, database tools, graphics tools, server support....).

      *

      What's not to like about my "mythical OS"?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: What's not to like about my "mythical OS"?

        The fact you're embarrassed to put your name to it?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What's not to like about my "mythical OS"?

          Pot? Kettle?...

  15. elgarak1

    "Customers who are inclined to take the plunge can open their Windows Update settings and select "Check for updates." If and when the update appears – Microsoft is throttling availability so the version bump may not be immediately accessible to everyone – customers can select "Download and install now," provided they're running Windows 10, version 1803, or version 1809 with the May 21 updates or later.

    The download will then proceed and once it's stored, the system will display a notification that the installation can be completed with a reboot, at a convenient time."

    That differs from the usual update behavior, how, exactly?

    Do they tell you the update is optional?

    Methinks that they bet on some poor schmucks to just click away and install, because that's how they have trained the schmucks.

    1. LenG

      1709

      So what do I do if I am still running 1709 and want to upgrade?

      For the record, I am still running 1709 and have no particular desire to upgrade.

    2. Mark 85

      Do they tell you the update is optional?

      There's the catch. They probably learned something when suddenly folks weren't updating via the "pushed but optional" update that loaded Win10 on the PC. Then when there was resistance, they pushed even harder. Hopefully for the sane people, they will allow the option of installing updates. I also note that in Win7, one used to get to see the update contents as they were listed. Now everything is rolled up such that you don't' know what's in it without a lot of hassle.

  16. elgarak1

    So, Windows gets worse and worse, Linux has too many small issues to work around, and macOS runs only on increasingly shoddy hardware. Do those arses know there are people out here who need to use these machines for their livelihood??

    1. Geoffrey W

      Sometimes all these "Issues" are a vital part of ones livelihood. Keep em' coming!

      Besides, things changing, better or worse, helps keep the old thinker working at it's agile best.

  17. Fading
    Facepalm

    As long as they've solved...

    The incompatible driver bug that kills an 1809 fresh install (and why is it so hard to find an earlier build for an install). Had this last weekend when prepping an old machine to be a nephew's gaming rig. Nice clean install - allow access to internet for updates- two minutes later dead machine that won't boot into windows. Luckily I remembered the El reg articles on the intel igpu driver woes so had to roll back and install the latest drivers from a file downloaded from another machine (I had luckily put a restore point in as soon as the win x booted for the first time) .

    Lesson learnt.

  18. BGatez

    It's suppposed to be an OS, not a fulll time job

    Waaaa-aaay too much effort devoted to just not allowing MS to f*** your day

    1. deadlockvictim

      Re: It's suppposed to be an OS, not a fulll time job

      Well then, have one machine with Linux on it (Ubuntu is nice and friendly) that is Internet ready and one machine with Windows 10 on it that has *no* Internet connection. You can transfer files via a network or via sneakernet, but as long as your Win10 box is kept off the Internet, you will have none of these problems and there is a lot that you may be able to deactivate/uninstall to boot.

  19. ITS Retired
    Holmes

    Has Been --

    Anymore, it is as if Microsoft does not understand its own operating system, let alone its users. It should not take much more for MS to become a good reason for corporate to start going to Linux, or MAC OS.

  20. arctic_haze
    Linux

    Sooner or later

    The final Windows version will have a big button to upgrade to Linux.

  21. Barry Rueger

    Good old Microsoft

    "If Windows detects that your machine cannot start up successfully ... Users can direct the automated repair system to seek permission under the Settings > Update & Security > Troubleshoot settings.

    Good luck with that. I've consistently found that Windows troubleshooters are slightly less valuable than Clippy.

  22. This post has been deleted by its author

  23. NPBN

    Outlook 2016 is borked...

    Outlook 2016 is failing left and rigth, ever since yesterday... It hangs and freezes and sometimes crashes.

    Problems started yesterday and are affecting the entire organization. I did shutdown 3 old domain controllers from our old domain yesterday (the last ones from that domain), but I cannot see how this should have an impact on Outlook (unless there is something I am not aware of?).

    The windows update also happened yesterday, and even thou I have yet to discover a link between the update and outlooks horrible performance, the timing seems to be spot on.

    Anyone else having issues?

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The update was was quite successful and stress free for me, other than the fact that my PC now runs like a giant turd!

    1. whitepines
      Coat

      other than the fact that my PC now runs like a giant turd!

      The next update will increase the size of the turd....and add Smell-o-Vision for the ultimate in Windows interactivity.

      I'll get me coat....

  25. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Most of my customers ignore this advice, but back up a few times on different devices before trying any updates.

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