back to article Blockchain is a lot like teen sex: Everybody talks about it, no one has a clue how to do it

Blockchain remains a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and of the supply chain projects that got past sign-off, most remain in the pilot phase. According to a survey of supply chain specialists carried out by Gartner, nine out of 10 blockchain-based projects will have come unstuck by 2023. Only 9 per cent of companies …

  1. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    the "Trough of Disillusionment"

    My guess is that it will stay there. Blockchain is useless in a corporate environment that has servers, SQL databases and competent people to administer and program the stuff that is needed. As for Blockchain in the cloud, don't get me started. Blockchain's only useful application has been cryptocurrency and, if nobody has found any other use for it by now, there is really little chance for any stunningly useful new application to appear tomorrow.

    And the criminals, scammers and other incompetent buffoons in charge of so-called Exchanges that regularly seem to lose people's virtual coins couldn't care less. They'll make off with the dough just fine, thank you very much.

    1. AMBxx Silver badge

      Re: the "Trough of Disillusionment"

      Yep, if you need that many buzzwords and not one sensible problem to solve, there's nothing to see.

    2. teknopaul

      Re: the "Trough of Disillusionment"

      I may be misunderstanding it. But we have used blockchain to ensure transactions and logs are not modified for many years now. From way before the hype. I believe many logs in off the shelf filesystems and databases do too.

      The idea that blockchain was invented in 2008 by bitcoin seems strange to me. Unless im missing something this is pretty standard practice for anyone with a large list of data items that they want to ensure can not be modified after the fact. Alternative approach is to trust your DBAs and access security. This is not always acceptable.

      I suspect chains of hashed data blocks are used quite a lot just without the blockchain hype.

      1. Dr Who

        Re: the "Trough of Disillusionment"

        Nobody claimed that the blockchain was part of the crypto currency innovation/invention. As you say, Bitcoin uses pretty much bog standard blockchain theory.

        Satoshi Yakamoto's contribution was the idea of proof of work which is the mechanism for minting new coins. The proof of work process is a mathematical guessing game whereby the creation of new blocks in the chain can be made artificially harder as more people become miners (creators of blocks). The aim is to limit the rate of coin production. This is an inherently stupid idea as all it does is increase the demand for computing power and therefore energy.

        Blockchain is not new, it was just brought to the world's attention by the prospect of unlimited riches, and in a classic gold rush most people are digging in the wrong place. The only ones who'll make money are those selling the picks, shovels and pumps.

        1. Muscleguy

          Re: the "Trough of Disillusionment"

          And just like in the gold rushes small scale one/two man panning operations soon got shoved out of the best prospects by big operations using water sluices, moving screens and cyanide heap leaching etc. Which any view of things in the Otago rush in NZ leading to Yukon etc.

          Though mechanisation means there are still some Mom and Pop operations with a dredger sitting in a pond surrounded by gravel which can be seen in parts of the SI of NZ, particularly on the West Coast.

    3. Qbert

      Re: the "Trough of Disillusionment"

      Trade finance systems built on blockchain are gainng interest. Major banks are participating in blockchain platform based trials. With 8 Trillion USD flying about in international open account trading anything that promises to lower risk is worthy of a look. I have a feeling that this will find a niche.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Colour me unsurprised.

    It's not that there's no uses for blockchain. Just that there are no conventional uses for blockchain, which is not quite the same thing.

    The problem with blockchain is it's going to be entwined with BitCoin for a long time to come, which blinds people to the reality. Which is that blockchain is a computing state machine publicly distributed across the internet. Or rather that's what it should be.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Colour me unsurprised.

      Blockchain is another word for a Merkel Tree or Hash Tree, and they have been around since 1979.

      They are actually pretty widely used. For example, if you have an iPhone, it uses them. But it is something that is only of interest to computer programmers who specialise in data storage, and of no real relevance to the general public.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Happy

        Re: Colour me unsurprised.

        > Blockchain is another word for a Merkel Tree or Hash Tree, and they have been around since 1979.

        Merkle. :-)

        Fun fact: in the days before computers in the UK's Civil Service, typing pool typists would repeat the last word or two from the end of each page as the first words on the next page, in order to make it harder for some unscrupulous person to replace an entire page.

        There is nothing new under the sun.

        1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Re: Colour me unsurprised.

          in the days before computers in the UK's Civil Service, typing pool typists would repeat the last word or two from the end of each page as the first words on the next page, in order to make it harder for some unscrupulous person to replace an entire page

          Some book printers used this convention too; you can see it in some books printed in the nineteenth century. (Typically the repeated word or words appear on a line of their own, in the gutter or margin.) There I expect it was used to catch pages accidentally skipped or inserted out of order in the printing or binding process.

          I've also seen it in other sorts of typed manuscripts, such as doctoral dissertations from Back In The Day.

      2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

        Re: Colour me unsurprised.

        But it is something that is only of interest to computer programmers who specialise in data storage

        Untrue. There are Merkle Tree applications other than bulk storage systems. Hash-based signature schemes, for example.

        The fact that you're unaware of other applications does not mean no other applications exist.

        It's also not correct to say that "blockchain is another word for a [Merkle] Tree". Blockchain is a specialization of Merkle Trees, just as Merkle Trees are a specialization of hash graphs (i.e. DAGs using subtree hashing to express or validate edges).

    2. JohnFen

      Re: Colour me unsurprised.

      "Just that there are no conventional uses for blockchain, which is not quite the same thing."

      Those are different things, but what non-conventional uses are there for blockchain that can't be already be addressed at least equally well by more established approaches?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Colour me unsurprised.

        Paying ransom. Without cryptocurrency, how would ransomware work? They tell people "deposit whatever amount in the following bank account" or "pay this paypal account" and authorities in the US/UK/etc would simply block all outgoing transfers to that account or paypal would lock that account to insure the criminals couldn't get paid. It would screw the people being held for ransom, but the lack of any way to make money would prevent any future ransomware attacks.

        Instead of encrypting files and asking for money, bad actors would go back to simply deleting the files of victims and taking their compensation in glee at the misery of others.

        1. phuzz Silver badge

          Re: Colour me unsurprised.

          "Paying ransom."

          What's wrong with a plastic bag full of non-sequential tenners?

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Colour me unsurprised.

            Collecting it without PC Plod hiding behind a bush with his cosh

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Colour me unsurprised.

            And how do you get a plastic bag full of tenners to a guy in Russia or China? And what does he do with them, if his government makes it hard or asks too many questions about where they came from when he walks in to his bank with a giant bag full of dollars and pounds?

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I think I'll avoid both just to be on the safe side.

    1. Semtex451

      Yea blockchain and Gartner both

      1. Omgwtfbbqtime

        I don't see a problem with blockchain.

  4. trevorde Silver badge

    Solution looking for a problem

    The underlying technology of blockchain has been around for over 10 years now. If people haven't found another use for it, they probably never will.

    1. katrinab Silver badge

      Re: Solution looking for a problem

      It has been around for nearly 40 years now. Telling someone you are storing data on a blockchain is about as interesting as telling them you are storing it using 8 bit ASCII.

  5. notamole

    Fairly simple

    Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost. If you don't need an immutable log of data, you don't need blockchain. There are more exotic uses for that but they are niche and too cumbersome for business use.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

      No it's not. It can "do" ledgering in the same way a computer can "do" addition, but if you think it's just a ledger, then you shouldn't be involved in development.

      1. notamole

        Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

        Feel free to point to one that isn't a ledger. Maybe you're confusing the technology with the implementation. Ethereum for example is capable of more than Bitcoin not because it uses its blockchain in weird and wonderful ways but because it has a contracts platform (via a virtual machine) that uses its blockchain as a source of data. The blockchain itself is still a ledger.

        1. katrinab Silver badge

          Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

          It is a linked list. Linked lists can be used in ledgers, or any other application where you want a list of things.

          As for an example of one that isn't a ledger, the zfs file system found in Solaris, FreeBSD and a few other operating systems. See the description here - https://blogs.oracle.com/bonwick/zfs-end-to-end-data-integrity , when it talks about Merkel Trees, that is another word for Blockchain.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

          Feel free to point to one that isn't a ledger.

          Er, wasn't that the PPs point ? It's the (as yet) unrealised non-ledger uses of Blockchain that are the prize here.

          Remember, it took a while before the likes of Alan Turning finally understood what Ada Lovelace had realised about the Analytical Engine. It's the same with blockchain. The only shame is that the theoretical underpinnings should have been taught as first year computer science. They certainly were when I did my degree. But then that was in the 80s when "coding" was more than dicking about with a GUI that did it for you.

          Concatenation. Repetition. Decision.

          1. katrinab Silver badge

            Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

            Can you name something that you can do on a blockchain that isn't possible on a different storage format?

            As far as I can see, what makes Bitcoin unique is actually the proof of work algorithm. It is difficult to see how that is useful or desirable in an enterprise setting rather than a traditional permissions based system where permissions are assigned by a system administrator under authority of the board of directors.

            1. JohnFen

              Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

              "Can you name something that you can do on a blockchain that isn't possible on a different storage format?"

              I think that's the wrong question. The right question is "what can you accomplish with a blockchain that can't already be accomplished at least as well with other methods?" If block chain did nothing new, but did the old stuff in a much better way, that would still make it very valuable.

              1. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

                Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

                If block chain did nothing new, but did the old stuff in a much better way, that would still make it very valuable

                There are reasons why Merkle Trees are used in ZFS and git and a number of other applications. We don't need to hunt for some blockchain-application unicorn; Merkle Trees are used by many thousands of users every day. Blockchain is simply a Merkle Tree in an application that tends over time to have a single long accredited path from the root to a single leaf, endorsed by some consensus algorithm that marks unsuccessful branches defunct. (That single path is the "chain". The point of blockchain is to keep pruning the tree into a linked list.) That describes plenty of files that are maintained in git, for one example.

          2. notamole

            Re: Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost

            I have a lovely invisible teapot you might be interested in.

            1. Paul Hargreaves

              Re: Get burned?

              If it's invisible but still tangible, I suspect most of the world will be ;-)

              1. JLV

                Re: Get burned?

                +1, but a hot teapot filled with very hot water may not be the world’s ideal first invisible household item ;-)

                1. Omgwtfbbqtime

                  Re: Get burned?

                  He didn't specify the contents would be invisible. Just the teapot.

    2. dajames

      Re: Fairly simple

      Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost. If you don't need an immutable log of data, you don't need blockchain.

      Blockchain is a ledger, first and foremost. Even if you do need an immutable log of data, you don't need blockchain. FTFY.

  6. RobertLongshaft

    If you don't understand the internet of value and how that is changing financial services around the world through blockchain innovation perhaps you should just STFU?

    "Oh its just a solution without a problem"

    Yeah that'll be why every major financial institution on the planet is bollock deep in this technology then...........

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Downvoted because you failed to explain to the world what makes blockchain different.

    2. notamole

      They mostly invested in it because of the initial(-ish) success of Bitcoin. The likes of Goldman, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, etc. mostly use it for encapsulating transactions. Their exuberance faded long ago, with the last gasp being a handful of forays into developing their own coins. At this point they're just trying to avoid admitting to investors that they wasted a lot of money on a glorified spreadsheet - that's how the stock market will interpret it.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Blockchain does permit an exchange of value without a trusted intermediary. Unfortunately all those banks make money from acting as trusted intermediaries.

        1. katrinab Silver badge

          How many people think "The problem with my Mastercard is that there is a trusted intermediary that I can complain to if things go wrong"? They may think that their bank is not very good at responding to things, but Bitcoin is the complete opposite of the solution to that problem.

          1. JohnFen

            I think that most cryptocurrency fans don't consider mainstream financial institutions to be "trusted".

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Yep, these are people who were burying jars filled with gold coins in their backyard before bitcoin came along.

      2. vtcodger Silver badge

        They mostly invested in it because of the initial(-ish) success of Bitcoin. ...

        One suspects that they have invested mostly to avoid the embarrassment if it turns out that blockchain actually is good for something and they are the only kid on the block without an in-house blockchain "solution". Keep in mind that these are largely the same folks that crashed the world's economies a decade ago because they believed that something called Li's cupola allowed them to predict financial risks with hitherto unachievable accuracy.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Link

          Copula, as in right royally......

        2. Michael Wojcik Silver badge

          Blargh. It wasn't Li's Copula. It was the Gaussian Copula.1 Li showed how it could be applied to derive the risk of, and thus price, a basket of independent investments.

          According to the accounts I've seen (I haven't bothered reading Li's original paper), Li emphasized the "independent" part. The finance kids were the ones who decided that mortgages were independent from one another and a basket of them could be priced, sliced into tranches, and sold off, creating the CDO market.

          That in turn made it possible to sell riskier mortgage variants, which increased volatility in the CDO market, producing higher nominal yields in CDOs, attracting institutional investors, and ... well, the usual story.

          Of course mortgages are not independent, since there's a significant positive feedback phenomenon when the rate of defaults rise (foreclosure sales drive prices down, reducing equity and creating "underwater" conditions, etc), and since factors such as the loss of a major employer in a region can trigger a rash of defaults. Soon the whole thing was a lumbering katamari of unpredictable returns and miscalculated risk.

          1"Copula" because it links things, and "Gaussian" for the obvious reason.

    3. juice

      History repeats

      > Yeah that'll be why every major financial institution on the planet is bollock deep in this technology then...........

      Citation needed: except for the increasingly dodgy-looking eCoin exchanges [*], who's actually implemented and is actively using blockchains for something?

      Beyond that, it's always worth looking back a little.

      Everyone was into tulips, back in ye olde days in Holland

      IBM used to have an official presence in Second Life

      Apple and Samsung fought to be the first to release a smart watch - and now, Samsung and Huawei are tussling over foldable phones

      The fact that a big company (or five) has gotten in on a given trend isn't a sign that the trend is either good or profitable. It's all about perception and marketing: if you're not seen to be doing something, then that could make your investors think you're not on the ball.

      And let's face it, if you're a big company, then chucking a few million at this sort of stuff isn't difficult - it's generally tax deductible and generates some positive PR about how forward-thinking and agile the company is. Actually making some money out of it is often just a bonus.

      [*] How many do we have, at the minute? There's the bloke who conveniently died in India after all the money mysteriously vanished from the platform, then there's Bitfinex and Tether, who are having mysterious issues with $850 million worth of cryptocurrency....

  7. Ken 16 Silver badge
    Trollface

    "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

    a) I'm too old for it now

    b) I'd have to pay extra for it

    c) the people who say they've done it haven't really done it

    d) I was drunk when I tried it

    e) it didn't last very long

    more suggestions welcome

    1. Roger Greenwood

      Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

      f) once you grow up you try to forget it ever happened, and certainly don't brag about it.

    2. Throatwarbler Mangrove Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

      g) there's a bunch of awkward fumbling ending in disappointment

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

      h) can't take advantage of it at major chains like Walmart

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

        oh... so that's why I was banned from ever going there.... ta'!

      2. Omgwtfbbqtime
        Coat

        Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

        I had heard that drunk sex was banned in Iceland...

        ... but you have to ask in Farmfoods.

    4. FozzyBear

      Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

      Typically done alone,, behind closed doors, after having only skimmed through a couple of articles.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Blockchain is a lot like teen sex" because;

      i) You can end up in a sticky situation that is difficult to explain away?

  8. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    followed by the "Slope of Enlightenment", ending at the "Plateau of Productivity".

    Or not as the case may be.

  9. Joe Dietz

    The real problem is that the value of transaction fraud has to _significantly_ exceed the transaction cost of blockchain technology to combat that fraud. We have lots of systems to combat transaction fraud that are working just fine - credit card transactions, title insurance etc. Otherwise at best its just another marginally better way of doing something we already have. If a measurable percentage of global electricity consumption becomes part of the solution - you clearly aren't considering things rationally.

  10. horriblicious

    Nonsense. The problem was how to make people buy even more servers and use even more power to execute computing services. Block-chain is the solution.

  11. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    "of the supply chain projects that got past sign-off, most remain in the pilot phase."

    That sounds like praising with faint damns.

    1. Ken 16 Silver badge

      while the others got cancelled?

  12. fidodogbreath

    Highly poisonable well

    In most countries, hosting or harboring things like terrorist propaganda or child pr0n can be severely punished. All it takes is for one person to embed illegal content into a blockchain record, and the entire uneditable blockchain can become illegal to access or host.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Highly poisonable well

      Also, don't use it to store PII that might be the target of the data-subject's erasure request.

  13. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Gartner predicted that at least one cryptocurrency-funded, non-mainstream political party will win a national election by 2023

    Obviously Garner's thought through the legal ramifications of anonymous donations from abroad before letting us know its opinion.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      FAIL

      I doubt it. Gartner is populated by twats.

  14. James Anderson

    De centralised identity management.

    I have got one of those. It's a plastic card with my picky and a little chip inside which holds a copy of my public key and other relevant data.

    Admittedly it was issued by a centralised system, but, then again I cannot imagine an identity management system that is not.

    Certainly beats the "can you provide utility bills" ballocks that goes on in the UK.

    1. A Non e-mouse Silver badge

      Re: De centralised identity management.

      Certainly beats the "can you provide utility bills" ballocks that goes on in the UK.

      Shops, etc. are having to change their tune on this as many people now only get, at most, email bills. I'm now getting asked for passport or driving license.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: De centralised identity management.

        ID cards by the back door? I just love losing all my essential details in one simple piece of plastic with no other authentication required.

        1. phuzz Silver badge

          Re: De centralised identity management.

          "no other authentication required"

          Other than having a face which matches the picture on the simple piece of plastic, which is at least one step more secure than a gas bill.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: De centralised identity management.

      > Admittedly it was issued by a centralised system, but, then again I cannot imagine an identity management system that is not.

      For info, PGP's trust model is an example of a non-centralised identity management system.

    3. FrogsAndChips Silver badge

      Re: De centralised identity management.

      Utility bills shouldn't be used as a proof of ID but as a proof of residence.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cynically speaking, the reason there are any pilot projects is that it must be very expensive to keep the scammers at bay for the giant credit card companies. If this cost could have been "disintermediated" by distributed ledgers or such, so that it is the individual consumer that gets stiffed, or else needs to build their own personal defenses against fraud (preferably using toolkits sold by the same well-connected companies, of course), well... big bonus time.

    So far, no one has articulated a really plausible cover for the con, but you never know - some free-market fundamentalists could find the right formulation to push the as a deregulation measure and "taking responsibility for your own actions". However, the word blockchain is too tainted by cryptocurrencies now, so if and when this concept next appears it will have a different name.

  16. Alan Bourke

    All we need is to blockchain the AI in the self-driving cars

    or whatever it is this month.

  17. Persona

    Distributed?

    There is an interesting difference between distributed and non distributed blockchains. Distributed blockchains have esoteric benefits such as immutability but they come at the cost of needing multiple independent parties to run them. This leads to the problem of how to remunerate them for their efforts. If you have to pay them directly their independence is compromised, so ideally the act of running the blockchain needs to generate revenue on its own. This basically leads you to a cryptocurrency solution. Alternatively you opt of a private blockchain and remind yourself that absolute immutability was never actually needed.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Sigh. Blockchain is a COMPUTER.

    Sorry to shout.

    Forget ledgering - that's not what blockchain is about. BitCoin almost managed to demonstrate the power of blockchain, until the sharks moved in and bloodied the water into a frenzy of gee-whizzery greed.

    The real power of blockchain is that a blockchain is a self contained computer in the von-Neumann sense of the idea. It's a stored-program computer. Not only that, it is (or can be, which is the power) a totally decentralised processing entity. Owned by nobody and available to all. In essence you connect to a blockchain using crypto, drop a series of instructions onto it, and let it run. With each iteration of the blockchain those instructions are evaluated and executed - if appropriate. And it's that "if appropriate" where the power lies.

    So in the future (and as the article suggests, possibly a long time in the future, since it seems there's a lot of catching up to do in meatspace) people will be using that power - delivering smart contracts - without blinking.

    There's a hell of a lot of real-world processes that can be mirrored, automated and secured using blockchain. In a way that's totally transparent and unlike anything we have today. Unless I missed something, and we are allowed into banks server rooms to have a shufty through their ledgers ?

    The biggest problem with blockchain development is that it was initially picked up by the people who - very quickly - realise it was meant to subvert. If you can instantiate a blockchain properly you have effectively created a bank.

    When I took the trouble - as a Strategy Consultant in 2012 - to bone up on blockchain (and make a few hundred quid on BitCoin, but that's another story) I knew within 10 minutes of presenting the work that a lot of people would need to retire before we started picking up blockchain properly.

  19. steviebuk Silver badge

    It would help if..

    ...blockchain meant something.

    Even I don't understand what it means, but then I am a little bit of an idiot.

    To me, it just seems like another marketing buzzword bullshit word.

    Anyone care to explain really simply what the word actually means?

    1. Brangdon

      Re: It would help if..

      It should be an immutable distributed trust-free linked list. The "trust-free" part is what makes it unusual, and inappropriate within a single company or a group of companies that trust each other.

  20. Amentheist
    Big Brother

    "interoperable foundation for global, decentralised identity management"

    Well if that's not utterly terrifying I don't know what is.

  21. cloth

    There are two types of blockchain

    There is the truly open one (proof of work and non-authenticated) i.e. bitcoin. The exciting thing about this version is that it (supposedly) allow untrusted participants to agree that something happened. The fact it does it by a chain of hashblocks is completely immaterial to the average person. The fact that money gets stolen from this blockchain on a reasonably regular basis a) scares me b) never makes the main news!

    The second are more closed blockchains (often proof of stake and authenticated). I still get lost as to what's so special about an authenticated blockchain and why it's better than a distributed/shared database. As soon as I know who someone is then why do I need consensus? I trust them don't I ? I don't get how we don't get contention - I must use transactions ?

    Most of the business focussed (think maersk) are run on the latter type of blockchain and therefore aren't costing the earth in electricity to run (well, not much more than any of the rest of our day-to-day computing tasks do.). Also, I believe that the banks are using the shared ledgers to share information like codes - that don't change a lot and aren't public per se. Again - why not a DB with an API fronting it - I'm lost. I guess they like the idea of saying they literally have a ledger technology holding their ledger of codes. Sort of makes sense, but, to me, there's other tech that can (and presumably did?) do it. I'm betting that blockchain will be "just another tech" sometime in the not too distant future that has a niche or two - the rest of us will just use DBs.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Smart contracts ..

    blockchain implements smart contracts. That's it.

    The reason they're "smart" is they execute automatically without banks, lawyers, courts and governments.

    Maybe now, people can see the reason blockchain development has gone very quiet ?????

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Coffee/keyboard

    Want to implement your own blockchain?

    It's easy. Take any log file you have and pass it through gzip.

    The difficult part is deciding how many zeros to put on the invoice.

  24. Gustavo Fring

    or thsi

    "Yep, these are people who were burying jars filled with their own Piss in their backyard before ShitCcoin came along.

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