McKinnon suffers further legal setback in extradition fight

RE: Stupid....

His extradition and impending jail sentance is not to fix his broken ways and re-introduce him into the community a better person, like prison in the UK.

Oh, no, no, no my friend, the American penal system has a completley different outlook.

He's being made an example of to show the casual hackers of the world that America won't stand for any of this kind of shit, and if you want to try it, you'd better get used to the "penal" systems of US Jails.

It's such a bad thing to be made an example of anything, UK government obviously supports this or they would not allow it. I wouldn't want to be in McKinnon's shoes, he's just a pawn for both Governments to use as they like.

@Matthew

Given how you feel I would strongly encourage you to petition your government to void or renege on the extradition policies that they have committed to. The US would of course have to do the same but I don't think that should concern you.

I think the McKinnon protest has focused far too much on one particular case and not on the broader issue that the States, through previous agreements, has every right to extradite him. Therefore he has lost every single appeal filed on his behalf.

Secondly if you truly feel that US prisons are far worse than England's it seems you have Human Rights complaints against the States as well. You should definitely bring that up with your government officials as well.

Reciprocity

IIRC The US has not ratified the treaty under which McKinnon can be extradited to the US. So in a reciprocal case a US cracker could thumb his nose at the UK Gov.

I love the way that when the US says frog the Labour Government doesn't even ask "How high". It just jumps as high as possible.

Apart from the jail issue

Quite independently from the actual jail issue (which has already been commented to death and is, as mentioned, in the hands of politicos and out of the hands of Justice anyways), I would rather like this trial to start in order for McKinnon to demonstrate officially just how easy it was for him to become "the biggest military hacker of all time".

Seems to me that his is as big as Saddams' army was the 3rd most powerful.

I'd like to see just how dangerous he was supposed to be.

Of course, I'm expecting that trial to be public.

I think they

... should jail the people who were to dumb to secure their systems

Time to get in touch with reality

More effort and fanboyism has been wasted on scumbag Gary McKinnon than he is worth. The guy did the crime and now it's time to be held accountable for his crimes in the U.S. where he committed the crimes. Hopefully this will be a good leasson for other scumbag hackers to take note of. Personally I'd prefer to see him sent to Pakistan and executed, based on Pakistani hacking laws. He's getting off easy coming to the U.S. to serve his sentence.

RE: Apart from the jail issue

As far as I understand, albeit unofficially. Allegedly, McKinnon simply scanned US Military subnets for windows boxes with blank admin passwords that were fully exposed to the internet (i know, i know). It is then alleged that he remotely installed commercially availiable remote control / remote admin software and there you go, allegedly . It was only when inside the systems that his blundering about like a bull in a china shop causing the damage that has caused the upset.....allegedly......from his own house!.....allegedly.

@AC Time to get in touch with reality

"Personally I'd prefer to see him sent to Pakistan and executed"

Quite the voice of peace and love, aren't you? It seems to be you who's out of touch with reality if you think that's a reasonable punishment.

You really are a poor excuse for a human. I pity your poor country for having somebody like you for a citizen. I expect you're not particularly popular there either.

Virtual time

Personally I have extreme problems with the fact that the relevant UK officials are willing to physically extradite the man despite him never having set foot out of the country at the time. I'd've asked for an online trial (with translation software) and to serve my time at home logged into a virtual jail cell ...

It also disturbs me there's been no evidence offered publically of the actual nature of the 'damages' beyond a convenient dollar figure - it's rather reminiscent of a filesharing case claiming equally massive 'damages' in lieu of something that didn't happen.

re: Virtual time

Ha! Banged up in Second Life?!

Like it!

"You are condemned to four years hard labour farming for my Son in WoW!".

"AAARRRGGHH!"

The bar has been set lower

So if an Aussie that sets up web site in his home country lands in the UK and gets arrested for a crime that happened in Germany ( the Germans can even provide the web site) and faces extradition hearing, what do you expect ??

Not trying to be an ass but seems like the UK is willing to hand any one over to any country that asks.

@Matthew

" I think we can safely say he will not be doing any more bloody stupid things."

A standard arguement against jail and a right load of bollocks. Of course if he avoids extradition and jail then he will realise that he can do bloody stupid things and get away with it and will, therefore, be likely to do further bloody stupid things with the reasonable expectation that he will get about with them. And it will of course send out the message that others can do the same. Sentences for crimimals are not simply punishment, but also to discourage others from doing the same.

My personal view is that he should be tried in the US, but serve his time in the UK. This is perfectly reasonable when considered in terms of family visitors, rehabilitation and the like.

However he should very definitely serve the sentence handed down by the US courts, not have it shortened by a Home Office worried about prison overcrowding. There have been cases in the past where Brits sentenced abroad have been returned to Britain to serve the remainder of their time and been released in very short order having served only a tiny part of their sentence. So I can understand the US reluctance to have him serve his time over here.

why not move?

If he moved to Europe, he would have the right to work, no extradition for petty crimes, and British justice wouldn't be so embarrassed.

That figures

The mentality of the so called 'officials' will be that because Garry has just received a diagnosis, Asperger's syndrome was not the cause because he didn't have it then. What they won't realise that unlike the flu, Aspergers syndrome is a life long disorder that would have been with him since birth.

The only good hacker is a dead hacker

The title sums it all up when it comes to McKinnon and other hackers.

It is impossible to break a law that does not apply

are the yanks trying to claim jurisdiction over the UK?

of course he probably broke UK law on computer misuse, however that's a different issue between him and the UK courts, bugger all to do with the yanks

That's too bad

Makes me sad about my country's legal system and making an example out of him.

Also sadly I'm starting to understand amanfromMars.

@Mark

Sorry to disapoint you but somebody could very easilly get into your house and steal your stuff. Our houses are not particulalry secure. Indeed it is often the case that they are not secure at all, how many people leave their doors unlocked when you are at home? Do you have the slightest clue how easy it would be for somebody to walk into most houses and access the kitchen, bedrooms, etc. while the occupants watch TV unawares? Do you have an inkling of how frequently that happens?

Now from what I understand the computers in question were password protected, and McKinnon used a simple script to cycle through common passwords. The physical security of most houses is no better than that.

However we continue to send burglars and housebreakers to prison.

You are suggesting that the solution to the problem of prison overcrowding is to make houses more secure so that ne'erdowells can't actually get into them.

You are also suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable to access somebody else's compter system and muck around with it as you choose, even when you know that the computer belongs to somebody else.

I cannot beging to express what a misguided fool I believe you to be.

Extradite him when its a two way street

By all means send him to the US to face trial, but only when the US has to follow the same rules over extradition.

And if as reported he entered systems that where not protected what exactly did he hack into?

Wouldnt be surprised if they dont invoke the same unlawful combatants rule and have his trial held in camera as a military tribunal, after all, any defence lawyer in a public trial will have a field day calling in senior US govt witnesses and asking them why exactly all the top secret stuff was on open display

@Ian Johnston

"Anyway, Aspergers and autism diagnoses aren't worth much more than the £150 you pay a clinical psychologist for them."

I'd wondered about the diagnosis myself. How sound exactly is the diagnosis? Surely nobody would accept the defence's reasoning without some serious analysis of their own.

And can anybody explain how he managed to function perfectly well in society before that diagnosis, but will fall apart when imprisoned? From what I have read recently people with asperger's often (though not always) function better when institutionalised.