back to article Peers told to push for cut-price access to med tech developed with NHS data

The UK's health service should get cheaper rates on healthcare products developed using NHS data, peers have been told. In the latest installation of the House of Lords Artificial Intelligence Committee's eponymous inquiry, peers quizzed experts on whether the NHS risked under-valuing - or failing to realise the value of - its …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    AI Algo's will be 10 a penny, but the data used to train them has huge value.

    About time this was raised. As for 5 years free access tell em to piss off. They need to careful that training data is used to train systems that never get deployed to the UK, free riding on UK citizens data.

    Of course confidentiality and real authorisation are a must.

  2. ecofeco Silver badge

    Privatize the profits

    Socialize the costs.

    Reduced cost? It should damn well be free!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Privatize the profits

      Reduced cost? It should damn well be free!

      So if you own something that individually you can make little or no use of, and somebody invents a tool that can enable you to use it, you expect to have the use of that tool for free, on the basis that having proved the tool works, they might be able to sell it elsewhere? How will that work out when most of Europe has some form of dominant public sector health provision?

      By your logic, all suppliers to the NHS ought to be giving their products and services for free. I think you'll find that doesn't work.

  3. IanRS

    Public data?

    There is an important difference between public data and data about 'The Public'. A lot of the data which the NHS holds is medical data relating to individuals, and it is this data which presumably makes up the bulk of the 'valuable' information. However, without explicit authorisation from every single person they want to sell the data on, they simply do not have consent to use it this way, either under the old DPA or the new GDPR. It is clearly a change in the data usage stated at the time of collection.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Both Dr Foster and CHKS are supplied NHS data, directly and indirectly, then sells the data back to them in the form of reports etc, for a not so unsubstantial amount. Yes I know this simplifies precisely what each company provides, but the essence is there.

    Surely if would be better if the NHS brought this functionality in house!

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Talk about selling the family-farm at rock bottom prices...

    WTF? The NHS should price the data high and set strict terms. Meanwhile Government should fund the NHS instead by clamping down on questionable tax schemes by global corporations and the super-rich / elite.

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Talk about selling the family-farm at rock bottom prices...

      It should price the data at a $Bn - that way only the single remaining merged pharma giant can afford it. No startup or researcher gets to spot a relationship between some cancer and an unrelated symptom because they can't get the data.

      Today John Snow wouldn't be able to remove the pump handle because he couldn't afford the OS map data or the list of deaths. It is important that all useful scientific data is locked up and traded to the highest bidder.

  6. DJO Silver badge

    Government should fund the NHS instead by clamping down on questionable tax schemes by global corporations and the super-rich / elite.

    No way since the right wing parties moved from just being unpleasant to being actively evil.

  7. The Nazz

    Not the only way the NHS could help themselves.

    There was mention the other day a dispute that the NHS had been "overcharged" £30m by a Canadian generic drugs company on a drug that had come out of patent.

    The real questions that should be asked are about the buyers and why they paid, and continued to pay, such a high price when alternative suppliers, one at least in Germany, supplied the same drug at a considerably lower price.

    NHS data? Can anyone clarify this.

    I am repeatedly being told that GP's are private individuals/practices/businesses outside of being employed by the NHS.

    Whilst they hold little data on me, who owns that? How/why do they pass it on to the NHS? At a charge?

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Not the only way the NHS could help themselves.

      The trouble is that the NHS being the sole buyer for all prescription drugs for 60M people doesn't have any real negotiating power when it comes to paying for drugs

  8. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Again, who owns that data. I'd say it's the patients.

    It's your data.

    Not the NHS.

    Not the HMRC.

    Yours.

  9. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

    Lease the data

    Yes, on the face of it that seems weird, the lessor can just make/keep a copy. But the contract includes payment of royalties on any derived work using the data.

    They are going to sell it anyway, so might as well sell it with contract clauses to get a future income stream from it.

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