back to article UK.gov 'could easily' flog 6m driver records to private firms this year

The UK government is driving towards a sale of up to 6 million vehicle records to private parking firms, according to a transport lobby group. The RAC Foundation monitors the number of vehicle-keeper records that the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency sells to firms, which use them to issue car owners with fines for parking …

  1. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    Hmmm

    Does 'right to be forgotten' apply to the DVLA?

    1. Lee D Silver badge

      Re: Hmmm

      I'd be more worried about the GDPR and "explicit consent" clauses if I were the DVLA.

    2. Aristotles slow and dimwitted horse

      Re: Hmmm

      I'm not quite sure that "a right to be forgotten" or the timescales involved in that part of regulation would be taken notice of by DVLA in this case, unless you decide to give up your driving license and car, and not own any form of road transport that requires you to provide or update information to them - such as a bicycle or a horse.

  2. CraPo

    What's good for the goose...

    ...is not good for the gander.

    They wouldn't give me the address of a delinquent ex-tenant of mine (for the purposes of a Money Claim Online) when supplied with the VRN of his motor without a court order.

    1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
      Unhappy

      "They wouldn't give me the address of a delinquent ex-tenant of mine"

      Of course not.

      You're not a Parking Enforcement company.

      IOW, you're not a man in a van with a Denver Boot and a mobile number who's registered with them to get such data on demand.

      Perhaps it's time you were? I gather the "qualification" are minimal, as are the background checks.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    If it is such a small revenue stream and only covers costs....

    ...why are DVLA actively helping scumbag extortionists, and wankers like Crapita? These companies are using DVLA to drive a nicely profitable business model.

    Fees from all vehicle fee paying enquiries equate to only 0.2% of the total amount DVLA collects from Licence fees and taxes

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: If it is such a small revenue stream and only covers costs....

      Why? Anything for a quick buck quid.

    2. Wayland

      Re: If it is such a small revenue stream and only covers costs....

      Every little helps towards the creation of a fascist dictatorship. If the government is to be privatized then these other agencies need to be gradually empowered until they can take over.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So the DVLA collects 7.5bn from Fee's and Taxes per year. Good to know.

    I could make a snarky comment about pot holes but then I would be factually incorrect.

    It would be interesting to know what the rules and regulations are on becoming one of these companies.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You just have to be a member of the British Parking Association or the International Parking Community.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        I sometimes make and eat Parkin, does that count?

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
          Happy

          "I sometimes make and eat Parkin, does that count?"

          Only in Yorkshire :-)

    2. Adam 52 Silver badge

      "It would be interesting to know what the rules and regulations are on becoming one of these companies."

      You don't need to be one of those companies, anyone with a good reason can request details and cough up their £2.50.

      CraPo above should have been allowed to too, possibly he didn't use the right language on the form.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Disgusting

    This is disgusting abuse of the Data Protection Act. Another reason why the government can't be trusted, and all they are interested in, is money.

    1. Wayland

      Re: Disgusting

      The money is a small part of it. The biggest part of it is power. Once you have power then money is secondary since you can get anything without even paying for it.

      1. FuzzyWuzzys

        Re: Disgusting

        "First you get the data. Then you get the power. And then you get the money!"

  6. Hollerithevo

    So...what the Govt screwed up, the Govt will reap?

    Having scrapped the paper tax disc and thus said goodbye to piles of dosh, they now need us again, to sell off to evil firms? So those who honestly tx our vehicles can be sold like so many packets of gum?

    I know I am the product when I am on Google, etc, but I did not think I was a product to HM Government. Now I know better.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So...what the Govt screwed up, the Govt will reap?

      Product, subject, convict--same thing really.

    2. Nick Ryan Silver badge

      Re: So...what the Govt screwed up, the Govt will reap?

      Doesn't make any sense at all.

      Scrapping the paper tax disc and the production and distribution costs of this should not reduce the income for car tax. Car tax is still applicable therefore how can removing such a running cost reduce income?

      1. Wayland

        Re: So...what the Govt screwed up, the Govt will reap?

        The government would have known that scrapping the paper tax disc would have caused a huge loss of income, that's why they did it. *Problem, Reaction, Solution*

        To solve the problem of untaxed cars on the roads requires far more numberplate scanners.

        By creating an urgent pressing need for this it will accelerate the roll-out of this surveillance system. The revenue from either the road tax or the fines will pay private companies to operate the system.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So...what the Govt screwed up, the Govt will reap?

      I doubt millions now avoid paying, the same ones still do not pay but with ANPR and mobile vans it's easier to spot them.

      remember how many cars spent years with "Tax in post" where the disc was supposed to be?

      Stop regurgutating daily mail pieces

      1. Wayland

        Re: So...what the Govt screwed up, the Govt will reap?

        ANPR and TV detector vans.

  7. unwarranted triumphalism

    Maybe they could start by sharing the details of the motorist who kindly informed me earlier today that he was allowed to drive on the pavement while I was walking on it.

    1. unwarranted triumphalism

      '1 thumb down'

      Found you!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Yeah, well, until they make the Starbucks a proper drive-thru, I'll just have to keep doing it my way. Next time, you'd better pay attention to my beeping and stop getting between me and my double-whip choca-mocha fat-fest.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          It's the sugar that makes you fat, not the fat. (Guess what's cheap, and what they load all these drinks up with?)

    2. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Under very limited circumstances he/she is allowed to drive on the pavement.

      If you are planning on taking court action for damages (perhaps you were distressed and suffered emotional injury?) then you should be given the keeper's details. You might, of course, decide to discontinue your court action after receiving them; that is your right.

  8. corestore

    And THIS is exactly why the DVLA haven't had my actual real home address for many years, and never will have again. I register my cars at an address which is entirely 'air gapped' from my real life, so to speak - and anyone obtaining the address from the DVLA will learn precisely *nothing* about me, other than that I can receive mail sent there. I would urge others to pursue a similar course of action.

    1. Reue

      Is it not a legal requirement to have your true address registered with the DVLA?

      1. 's water music

        Is it not a legal requirement to have your true address registered

        Luckily True Address is not a thing legally speaking. The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 specifies that registration info should not be false nor materially misleading so a valid correspondence address (such as a PO box) should be ok afaict

      2. corestore

        No. I checked. They have only two rules:

        - it must be a UK address

        - you must be able to receive mail sent there

        You don't have to be the owner of the car, you don't have to be a UK citizen or even hold a driving license, you don't even have to be resident in the UK; you just have to supply a UK address where they can write to you.

  9. Stevie

    Bah!

    Only another 335 megaquids to find.

    This week.

  10. The Nazz

    Profiteering barstewards

    If the fee of £2.50 is set at that level "to recover the cost of..." and no more, then why the f'g hell did they charge me the princely sum £20 to replace one piece of pink plastic with a newer piece of pink plastic when the actual cost could have been no more than 50p.

    Admittedly, processing a new driver would cost more than a replacement card, so charge them, the new drivers more. No hardship after spending 100's on learning to pass the tests.

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: Profiteering barstewards

      "If the fee of £2.50 is set at that level "to recover the cost of..." and no more, then why the f'g hell did they charge me the princely sum £20 to replace one piece of pink plastic with a newer piece of pink plastic when the actual cost could have been no more than 50p."

      Wait 'till they notice how much the CAA are charging for drone licences!

  11. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Private car parks versus councils and police, etc

    I am not a trained legal expert.

    This is not legal advice.

    Here in Oz, a private parking company has diddly-squat chance of extracting a 'fine' from a punter.

    I simply ignore. They never sue.

    The Council and the Plods on the other hand, you're screwed.

    1. Reue

      Re: Private car parks versus councils and police, etc

      It's a good thing this isnt legal advice! The parking companies here are far more court happy.

      As an example; ParkingEye have been to court over 1000 times so far this year: http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/ParkingEye.html

    2. FuzzyWuzzys

      Re: Private car parks versus councils and police, etc

      True'ish....

      No one but the government can "fine" you, no one. What these are are "bills for services". A private parking company owns some land, you park on it and they charge you a fee and for that they bill you. You pay the bill at the start or the end of the stay. It's a bill, nothing more. If you don't pay, it not a fine, it's a demand for payment for a service you used but didn't pay for. Same as your gas or electric, if you use it and don't pay they too will take you to court and demand payment.

      However, like most people I still think they're all money grabbing, weasly scumbags that should be strung up but hey, they're still nothing more than private companies with a service to sell.

    3. aje21
      FAIL

      Re: Private car parks versus councils and police, etc

      Surprised it has not been mentioned sooner, but private parking companies cannot issue fines, they can only send you a parking charge NOTICE which is to tell you that you have "agree" to pay them money as part of a distance contract formed when you were in the presence of signage, etc.

      In the UK this has been condoned by the supreme court (just look up Beavis vs. Parking Eye) as reasonable behaviour and was brought in as part of the "protection of freedoms" act which stopped cowboy clamping...

      Or, put another way, the DVLA had no revenue stream when you had to contact the clamping company to get your car freed but the new model does make them a bit of profit.

  12. Rono666

    When you have a government of mafia. Tax is theft but you kiddies love being slaves...

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Alert

    I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!

    All this time I thought I was giving the government my personal data so they could lose unencrypted copies of it on USB drives and laptops left on trains and in taxi's; now I discover they sell it as well!!!

    1. Teiwaz

      Re: I am shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!

      they could lose unencrypted copies of it on USB drives and laptops left on trains and in taxi's;

      'Lose'?

      I'm not sure I believe that anymore....the old switched briefcase, the envelope taped into a newspaper and casually left behind in a public bar. (yeah, I like all those 1960's spy TV series).

      A USB or a laptop left on a train or a taxi.......? .in exchange for an envelope full of 'used twennies' left.

      ...breaks into 'Avenues and alleyways'

  14. Bernard M. Orwell

    "set to recover the cost of providing the information."

    You know, I think I see a way of reducing your workload, overheads and the need to recover costs...

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Get your ounce of flesh first

    If you feel you must pay these robber barons, use the costly delay method.

    Write back asking for more info of the alleged incident.

    Ask for photos

    Ask for the ooperator's name

    Ask for the time of day and the weather conditions

    Ask who killed JFK if you like.

    After some office wonk has sent you all the info.

    Wait a week and then write again to say you never heard back from them

    Wait.

    When the second bunch of info arrives, mail them back with a new question or request.

    Maybe the photos weren't quite clear enough.

    Wait.

    Rinse repeat as many times as you can.

    The fine period can't expire if you are in correspondence over the claim.

    Eventually, and only if they pursue it, pay up, a few quid short.

    Wait.

    Eventually pay the balance

    Result is the same but you cost them at least as much as the fine itself in postage and office time.

    I did this once (without paying) to discover the details of the issue kept changing slightly from letter to letter.

    I pointed this out and that was that, never heard back.

    1. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

      Re: Get your ounce of flesh first

      If you feel you must pay these robber barons, use the costly delay method.

      Well in reality, there's not much scope for not paying them. SWMBO got caught when a local supermarket installed Parking Eye and she didn't see the signs (mounted high up, out of eyeline, in a place where a driver's concentration is on not hitting other cars, people, or the landscape !) The notice they sent was comprehensive: dates & times, photos in and out, all the required statutory information, etc, etc. They'll have had all the techniques you mention over the years, so they've developed a legally bulletproof notice.

      As as previously mentioned, it's been all the way up to the supreme court, and three judges (London based, probably with significantly higher living standards than the average) decided that £85 was not "unreasonable" - hence any of these scumbags can charge £85 for such a breach of contract and it's all legal.

      The best way to avoid having to pay is to take it up with the business owner. In this case, I emailed them and made it quite clear that neither myself nor any of my family would be spending any more of our money with them ever again - and as a result, they'd be losing far more than the parking "fine".

      What was most annoying is that they'd been in the cafe (which is actually quite good - normally) for over an hour due to slow service.

      Very quickly I got a reply back saying that the charge had been cancelled.

      Mind you, I have had some ideas for how to screw around with them - knowing the angle/viewpoint of the cameras ...

  16. ChelseaG

    Employers can contact the DVLA to check that an employee is entitled to drive (it is an offence if a company allows an employee to drive a vehicle for work without a valid licence). The employer must explain why it is requesting the information and how it will use it. The employee must provide his or her consent for the information to be disclosed so why aren't private parking companies required to get consent to access your personal data that the DVLA hold? Surely now at least with GDPR coming in May the DVLA will have to get your consent before releasing personal data (obviously other than to the Police or Government Department if an offense is suspected).

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