back to article Give us cash and think about the kids, UK tells Facebook and Twitter

The British government is now proposing a direct tax on social media companies while inviting everyone else to hush and think of the children. The Green Paper on Internet Safety, published today, specifically gives Apple and Google a free pass from the real targets of British governmental anger, Facebook and Twitter. It comes …

  1. tiggity Silver badge

    undeniable suffering

    I get plenty of that from this government, can I get them to give me some cash to compensate?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: undeniable suffering

      I know right? It would be nice if we had an actual Conservative party to vote for.

      1. codejunky Silver badge

        Re: undeniable suffering

        @ disgustedoftunbridgewells

        Glad I am not the only one to think that. In my opinion we are still stuck in the centre left labour gov territory. I know Cameron/Osborne moved left to deny the centre to any successor to Labour but it does leave a huge void to be filled (right and less authoritarian).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: undeniable suffering

          Cameron was at least filling a void when he moved the party to the left. I even respected him grudgingly because he got the Labour party out of power.

          May has taken it way too far. I don't believe she's doing this because it's what she believes, I believe she's doing it because she has no idea how to be a conservative. She seems to think that "different" means to interfere with the market.

          She was right with her observation circa 2001 that the Conservatives were *seen* as the nasty party. What she failed to grasp was that they were seen that way because making tough choices such as taking your hand off the tiller and letting the market do the work is seen as callous. The fact that it works was beyond her comprehension. She also failed to grasp that the public had a respect for the party who would ignore the boos and do the right thing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: undeniable suffering

            Cameron .... I even respected him grudgingly because he got the Labour party out of power.

            But because he stood for nothing other than his own toffee nosed views, and had no clear vision, he was unable to win a majority in 2010 against the ramshackle remnants of the Labour party. He scraped a bare majority against Fidel Corbyn....and then The Woman Who Knows Nothing managed to throw even that thin majority away.

            All of this, I think comes back to a total lack of a compelling vision that voters can identify with. And there is little chance that they'll come up with anything anytime soon because they are all completely out of touch with voters. There's not even the attempt to engage, or take an interest in what matters to voters, and all policy and planning is desk study thinking, the endless battle for the "centre ground" is driven by a handful of focus groups asked loaded questions, and by special advisors who know less than the square root of bugger all.

            Even if the feckless Mrs May were thrown out, are there any visionaries within the Conservative party? Nope. Davis would probably be the most competent set of hands but lacks flair, Rudd is worryingly useless in all respects, Rees-Mogg is a frightening throwback to Victorian values, and Johnson is a clown whose skills are in Latin and after dinner speaking. Ruth Davidson might be a surprisingly strong candidate amongst MPs, but has the charm and voter appeal of an 8x4 30 tonne tipper.

            And therein is the problem. Too many arts graduates and career politicians, no vision, no good pool of candidates, and most of them obsessed with equality agendas started off by Tony Blair. They can't organise or fund the NHS, they can't organise or fund the military, they don't know anything about commerce, technology or industry and do nothing to make the UK a better place to employ people, they stand and watch idly whilst US tech companies avoid billions in UK taxes, they are committed to intensely illiberal mass spying programmes, their energy policy is one of the most expensive and farcical disasters ever seen in the UK, and they don't have a scooby where the £2bn a day the government spend goes. Corbyn may be worse, but on current progress he's more likely to be elected in 2020 because he promotes a vision of "everything for free, paid from the pockets of the rich", whereas nobody knows what the Tories stand for, including themselves. The Conservative party's woes come from the fact that they have a disastrous lack of objective, professional strategic vision, no skills in leadership or management, and as a consequence instead of forming a vision based around what voters want, they rely on their parliamentary leader's diktats and poor judgement, and the continuing obsession of Tory "reformers" over equality.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: undeniable suffering

              Absolutely, although getting the public to vote Tory again was definitely an achievement by Cameron, even if the then Labour party was on its last legs.

              I'm a fan of Davis, but I think he's now too old ( is he now 69?, so 74 in 2022, 79 by the end of that parliament? ).

              Rudd would be May mk 2.

              I think the best way forward would be to take a punt that Gove can win an election. He'd make a great PM.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: undeniable suffering

                "Even if the feckless Mrs May were thrown out, are there any visionaries within the Conservative party? Nope. Davis would probably be the most competent set of hands but lacks flair, Rudd is worryingly useless in all respects, Rees-Mogg is a frightening throwback to Victorian values, and Johnson is a clown whose skills are in Latin and after dinner speaking. Ruth Davidson might be a surprisingly strong candidate amongst MPs, but has the charm and voter appeal of an 8x4 30 tonne tipper."

                Nailed it.

                "I think the best way forward would be to take a punt that Gove can win an election. He'd make a great PM."

                Oh good god no. He'd not make a great PM, he'd make Corbyn PM.

              2. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: undeniable suffering

                I think the best way forward would be to take a punt that Gove can win an election. He'd make a great PM.

                What? You think Smeagol Gove would be good at anything? He has sounded very credible quite a few times in radio discussions, which should be expected from a journalist. But he's yet another Oxbridge arts twat, and as education minister he interfered and in one fell swoop, turned the educational clock back to Tom Brown's School Days. That's unforgiveable. And that Fluck & Law face is not going to ever be elected as PM.

                I'd rather see Sajid Javid given a clear run at it. He's a lot less tainted than most of the Tory bigwigs. He is a bit sullied by having a degree in politics and economics. and he was a banker, although on the plus side he's got some good international commercial experience, he worked his way up, and he doesn't come from the ghastly Tory blue-rinse or silver-spoon ranks.

              3. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

                Re: undeniable suffering

                Gove can win an election. He'd make a great PM.

                Can I have some of the drugs you are taking? Gove would (I suspect) do an even worse job than May. At least she has *some* conscience.

                1. Anonymous Coward
                  Anonymous Coward

                  Re: undeniable suffering

                  You've edited my sentence to take out the context.

                  I said hope that Gove can win an election.

                  He would almost certainly make an excellent PM. Whether he's get there or not is another matter. The wets like May aren't exactly taking the country by storm, are they?

            2. codejunky Silver badge

              Re: undeniable suffering

              @ Ledswinger

              "Rees-Mogg is a frightening throwback to Victorian values"

              I do somewhat feel sorry for the guy. He is obviously very different with his own views, but then who had the same views as Blair to destroy education by forcing people into uni then introducing tuition fees? Or his Christian beliefs of kicking the Middle East hard? Or many of the other nuttiness he did?

              Mogg does seem to strike me as honest even if he knows his opinion wont be popular, but also acknowledges his opinion isnt shared by everyone and respects decisions even against his views. If that is true (I dont know the guy, he might be a good lier) then maybe a throwback to pre-boyband PM's and actually base it on policies instead of promising one thing and doing the direct opposite. I struggle to think of a politician with integrity and seriously dont like the way our politics has gone.

              1. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

                Re: undeniable suffering

                @codejunky

                I struggle to think of a politician with integrity and seriously dont like the way our politics has gone.

                If only Screaming Lord Sutch of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party were alive today

                http://www.loonyparty.com

          2. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: undeniable suffering

            tough choices such as taking your hand off the tiller and letting the market do the work is seen as callous

            Quite rightly so. The "dead hand of the market" might work in some respects[1], but running a country isn't one of them - because running the country can't ever turn a profit.

            So, instead of bloated, slow and inefficient public services, you get bloated, slow and inefficient private services - the main difference being that public services are not required to make a profit but private ones are.

            So you get the absurd situation where (having closed all the NHS-run nursing homes), all the privately-run ones are going out of business because they can't afford to make the service profitable.

            [1] And even then, it doesn't mean the best or most efficient service or product wins. Just the one that's best marketed.. (cf: Windows vs anything-else or Betamax vs VHS)

        2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

          Re: undeniable suffering

          "right and less authoritarian"

          Tricky. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any British politician who might make that work.

  2. Tubz Silver badge

    So in reality, Apple and Google still in bed with UKGov spooning, while Facebook and Twitter in the dog basket.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge

      Funny how Apple and Google are on the Technical Working Group and don't get slapped with a tax. Odd how tech compnaies run rings around a bunch of PPEs from Oxford.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        How many PPEs does it take to change a light bulb?

        1. seanj

          re: How many PPEs does it take to change a light bulb?

          650.

          But first, an independent regulator should be set up (at taxpayer expense, naturally), to conclude after a two year review that the light bulb must be given a one year period in which it has the opportunity to change itself before they recommend legislation be brought in to force it to do so.

          1. CrazyOldCatMan Silver badge

            Re: re: How many PPEs does it take to change a light bulb?

            And don't forget the taxpayer-funded jollies^W fact-finding missions to various warm and exotic places in order to determine best-of-breed behaviours and social dynamics studies..

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    YouTube Kids app

    This shows how out of touch this government is.

    The you tube kids app is not safe for kids at all. I know this from experience and checking it myself.

    Recent example of someone else finding out,

    Reddit Link

    That said the advice should be that you don't use the internet as an alternative to parenting or distraction.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: YouTube Kids app

      Just thought I would add a tip to this if your children do want to watch stuff on their tablets as they will because their friends are.

      Get an oldish computer and stick emby on it and let them connect to that, then you have full control on what they are viewing. If you don't download stuff *cough* you can always easily rip the non-dodgy videos from you tube.

      At the end of the day non of these companies employ enough people to monitor their content so you have to do it yourself.

      Also from the BBC

      "Despite promising to introduce new laws regulating the internet in the Conservative Party's manifesto, Ms Bradley told the BBC that legislating would take "far too long".

      So their intentions on this are pretty clear.

  4. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Flame

    How in the name of fuck can the YouTube Kids app get a free pass?

    Have you seen what it's infested with? Link 1 and Link 2 if you haven't.

    Google might deign to remove a video or two if you report them, but unless this gets media attention they will do precisely nothing about it... perhaps attention from an IT news source that knows the issues and can't be fobbed off (hint)...

    1. Teiwaz

      Re: How in the name of fuck can the YouTube Kids app get a free pass?

      Have you seen what it's infested with? Link 1 and Link 2 if you haven't.

      An awful lot of religious fanatic comments on the tails of those articles - Makes me think it's one of those agenda pushing sites.

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: How in the name of fuck can the YouTube Kids app get a free pass?

        They could be scientologists for all I care, it still doesn't detract that from the fact that the videos actually exist and are discoverable in the way that the articles say.

  5. Rono666

    Permission?

    We don't need no stinking permission...

  6. wolfetone Silver badge

    I was bullied before Facebook and Google were a thing. The school was useless because they couldn't do anything. Nothing has changed since then, except the technology. So why don't the Government sort out bullying period instead of finger pointing at tech companies and blaming them for the problem. Fine the parents of the bullies instead.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      I was bullied before Facebook and Google were a thing.

      Same here. Even have a couple of scars on my face from those days.

      This is exactly why my kids can do half an adult Iron Man by the age of 10, are proficient in at least two martial arts, do at least one endurance/power sport and can remove the head of anyone who tries to bully and make it look like self-defence. I remember 3 years ago, wife was shocked when she had to pick up junior who had a damaged knee and could not cycle from school. "They are ... picking on him... But they are doing it from 10m+ away, nobody dares come closer". My sole reaction was: "Good, need to tell him to keep it up".

      In any case, as a result all the school meatheads stay away from them. As an additional side effect, they miss only a day or so of school once in a few years.

      I found this significantly easier than complaining and promoting suggestions about fining parents.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        100% with you there. Both my lads have done a variety of martial arts and have strict instructions to pick the biggest and concentrate on maximum damage to scare the 'followers' into legging it.

        We've only been called into school once when that strategy was utilised and we made it clear to the teachers that self defence is acceptable in our house. She agreed, but could not officially ;-)

        Neither lad (both at the same school) has ever had any problems since.

        1. wolfetone Silver badge

          I don’t have kids, but towards the end of secondary school I found Boxing and it changed my life. They tried to intimidate me, but I punched them in the jaw. They didn’t bother after that. But like you both point out there is nothing wrong with being handy with your fists.

          There are times for talking, but there are times when you need to hit back. And I’m glad both of you are instilling that in your kids.

          1. Teiwaz

            towards the end of secondary school I found Boxing and it changed my life

            Yeesh, I only figured out the 'score' with schools toward the end as well - really wish I'd worked it out sooner.

            I dunno, you might be a mild soul or from a civilised family and a quiet neighbourhood - but you still get dispatched to the jungle cross mini-prison for X number of years without a briefing on the roles or even a pamphlet.

            I don't have kids either, but if I did, I'd be watching for signs of bullying and advise them of what I'd worked out earlier - 'cause my parents were oblivious - despite numerous signs.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But who shall guards the guards ?

    Who will protect the children from the Office of the Department for the Protection of Political Paedophiles ?

  8. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Quite Transparent

    They've linked 'Think of the children.' to 'We want more money.'

    Presumably they've given up on boat houses in duck ponds and renting out second homes while getting paid for them by us.

  9. stuw

    If Facebook and Twitter refuse, stick their proverbial middle finger up and just operate from outside the country then what would the government do? Ban them?

    Imagine a government that tells people they have blocked Facebook and Twitter wouldn't last very long, or everyone would just use VPNs after learning how to use them for pirating / kodi in the past (which the government would probably find undesirable as the amount of traffic / metadata that they could snoop on would be much reduced)

    1. DavCrav

      "If Facebook and Twitter refuse, stick their proverbial middle finger up and just operate from outside the country then what would the government do? Ban them?"

      It's far easier than that. If Facebook operates from outside the country and against UK law, and hence it's illegal for UK companies to deal with them, how exactly are they going to get paid for the advertising they want to show people?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        And indeed this is the approach being mooted across the EU. Seems sensible to me. If will make it seriously expensive to provide a European service in the way they currently operate.

        That Google has avoided being named/shamed seems astonishing.

        1. codejunky Silver badge

          @AC

          "And indeed this is the approach being mooted across the EU. Seems sensible to me. If will make it seriously expensive to provide a European service in the way they currently operate."

          I do get concerned at ideas like this. We have advanced to a stage where we can freely and for free access communications and information globally with efficient search capability and the expense is what we freely give away without thinking anyway.

          Then some money grabbing green eyes demand money and you want to go back to a time before these advancements? I will point out that these advancements have directly benefited the population and provides access to information and networking on a scale only previously available to the wealthy. And we would go backwards for what? Because we cant steal money from those who earned it? When did we fall into a socialist paradise where nobody has anything and we are all equally worthless bar those at the top?

  10. Teiwaz

    This is all bluster

    the Gov of late likes the scapegoat approach - wave a threat for the masses to fear then get some dodgy piece of legislation passed before the panic/moral outrage abates in the face of some other distraction.

    Twitter / Facebook storms are so numerous the wolf in the sheepfold approach doesn't work. The storm isn't divisive enough for the government to pluck out the offenders without backlash.

    The tax excuse doesn't fly, given the apple Ireland thing - the just want to bring under the heel the two platforms most likely to be instrumental in an organisation of another Jarrow Crusade in the future.

  11. Arthur the cat Silver badge

    DDCMS survey on this area

    The Department of Fun (Digital, Kultcha, Meeja and Spurt) have an online survey connected to this green paper. The questions rather suppose a social media levy will exist.

    Have your say here.

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