back to article NASA: Bring on the asteroid, so we can chuck a fridge at it

NASA has okayed one of its save-the-world-from-asteroids proposals to move to the preliminary design phase, on the way to a hoped-for launch early in the 2020s. If it goes ahead, the DART – Double Asteroid Redirection Test – will start with what the space agency describes as “a non-threatening small asteroid”. That way, …

  1. redpawn

    Perhaps...

    it would be better to chuck Bruce. After all we have a planet to save.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: Perhaps...

      The fridge is just for testing purposes. We keep Bruce around for when the real deal comes along.

      1. alain williams Silver badge

        Re: Perhaps...

        I read the article hoping to see that they were going to use that fridge for something really important, like keeping their beer cool ... but no :-(

      2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: Perhaps...

        "The fridge is just for testing purposes."

        Don't worry, Indianna Jones is hiding in the fridge and he always wins too,

      3. Chris G

        Re: Perhaps...

        If the fridge doesn't work, I have a heavy old washing machine they are welcome to have a go with.

        They'll need a Tranny and a couple of hefty blokes to collect it though.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Perhaps...

          I know a few Trannys that are heft blokes.......

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Perhaps...

          "They'll need a Tranny and a couple of hefty blokes"

          They should come round mine on cabaret night, then.

    2. Spacedinvader
      Trollface

      Re: Perhaps...

      Better to Chuck Norris, Shirley?

      1. Montreal Sean

        Re: Perhaps...

        We should be eco friendly and send Schwartzenneger.

        He always says he'll be back.

        And don't call me Shirley.

    3. Haldus

      Re: Perhaps...

      Ahaha, you've made my day.

  2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    Time to go PaddyPower

    Bets on:

    1. The "asteroid" will fire thrusters and get out of the way

    2. The CIWS will obliterate the "refridgerator" long before it gets anywhere near.

    1. MyffyW Silver badge

      Re: Time to go PaddyPower

      3. The CIWS, having been installed at considerable expense to the British taxpayer, will make an elaborate show of targeting the refrigerator but fail to actually stop it. Ministers will hail it as demonstrating "global reach".

    2. WonkoTheSane
      Mushroom

      Re: Time to go PaddyPower

      4. The fridge hits, but at the wrong angle, turning the asteroid TOWARDS Earth.

      1. Sir Runcible Spoon

        Re: Time to go PaddyPower

        5. Fridge hits, but passes through the asteroid since it's one of those rocks made up of pebbles

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Time to go PaddyPower

      6. The fridge being a fridge is unaware of it's predicament however someone has put soya milk in it and as such it avoids the asteroid as it's a peace loving hippy fridge.

      1. storner
        Trollface

        Re: Time to go PaddyPower

        7. The fridge, being an intelligent IoT device, will notice that it needs to stock up on fresh milk, but since there is no Wifi connection in the asteroid belt it will fail to connect to Walmart and subsequently the control system crashes with an unexpected error. The thrusters therefore fail to fire, and the fridge crashes back to Earth.

    4. Redstone

      Re: Time to go PaddyPower

      8. The asteroid bats the fridge back and takes out Houston.

      1. Gordon 10

        Re: Time to go PaddyPower

        9. Tony Hawks (no not the skateboard dude) sues NASA as he has all the media rights for Around the Universe with a Fridge.

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Time to go PaddyPower

          10. The fridge, having been reincarnated from a bowl of petunias thinks to itself, "Oh no, not again!"

          1. hopkinse
            Coat

            Re: Time to go PaddyPower

            before wondering why there is a sperm whale falling beside it....

  3. ratfox

    Program scientist Tom Statler says the experiment won't “change the orbit of the pair around the sun”.

    This makes no sense to me. If they change the movement of the smallest asteroid, without changing that of the biggest one, then surely they are changing the total movement of the pair.

    1. baseh

      Damn right it does - DART brings to the binary additional momentum and angular momentum so the system total changes and consequently its orbit around the sun changes! Maybe not by a lot but it is still a change. So either Tom Statler was misquoted or the word "significantly" was dropped.

      I don't believe that a scientist can make such a high school physics mistake

      1. Tom 64
        Coffee/keyboard

        Orbital changes

        > "I don't believe that a scientist can make such a high school physics mistake"

        Perhaps he's a Trump appointee?

    2. EricM

      Conservation of energy & momentum. Right. It will change the orbit of the pair. What the scientist probably tried to explain was that this test won't “change the orbit of the pair around the sun” by a measurable amount.

      This statement is probably just meant to reassure all that this test will not drop a stone on anyone's head.

      1. ridley

        Not much point in doing the experiment if the results are not measurable.

    3. Mark 85

      Ok.. so this "test" changes it's orbit and not for the good.... The next time it comes around, NASA will have the real thing fired at it. Hopefully with the orbital mechanics sorted out...

      I do wonder why no one asked Mr. Statler the obvious question in response to his answer: "Would you stake your life on that statement?".

      1. EricM

        Re: Would you stake your life on that statement?

        Yes.

        To estimate the effect: Imagine firing a shell against a 2km high mountain for comparison.

        This kind of test will change the combined orbit o the binary maybe by a few dozen meters. Given the average distance to earth is a few 100 million km and the way orbital mechanics work, the chance of impact is changed from zero to zero.

      2. lglethal Silver badge
        Trollface

        "I do wonder why no one asked Mr. Statler the obvious question in response to his answer: "Would you stake your life on that statement?"."

        The obvious answer is to paraphrase Homer Simpsons on this:

        "I am 100% absolutely certain that this is what will happen. If I'm wrong may we all be horribly crushed from above somehow."

        (According to Wiki - Simpsons Season 6, Episode 14, "Bart's comet - ~1995)

      3. Red Bren
        Mushroom

        "Would you stake your life on that statement?"

        It could be argued that he already is. Unfortunately, he's also staking everyone else's lives on it too!

    4. phuzz Silver badge

      If you're going to be really pedantic, then just walking across the room will alter the shape of the Earth's gravitational field, which will alter the motion of everything in the solar system.

      Not by a measurable amount though, and certainly less than the change in the course of the asteroid(s) caused by the high powered radar they're presumably going to shine at it to pin down it's position (which in itself probably won't make a measurable difference).

    5. Ken Hagan Gold badge

      The smaller one is small enough for us to notice the hit. The larger one is large enough that the hit makes no measurable difference to the pair.

      ...I'm guessing.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Go

    As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

    provided it is an IoT fridge. Those things are an expensive menace anyway.

    (Even better if NASA stocks it with light beer beforehand. That stuff is only useful as payload.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

      Oh my gaaaawd, you found a use for Bud Light!

      (although for thus purpose it ought to be Bud Heavy)

    2. Rich 11

      Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

      provided it is an IoT fridge. Those things are an expensive menace anyway.

      They should send the fridge that Indiana Jones used to survive a nuclear blast. That thing is as hard as rocks.

      1. Don Dumb
        Stop

        Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

        @Rish 11 - "They should send the fridge that Indiana Jones used to survive a nuclear blast."

        I do not remember that from any of the 3 Indiana Jones films.

        1. Anonymous South African Coward Bronze badge

          Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

          Indy Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

          Poor movie, not up to the usual Indy standards.

          1. imanidiot Silver badge
            Alert

            Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

            "Indy Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"

            That's just internet rumor. It's not actually an Indiana Jones movie. Doesn't exist! There are only 3! Indy movies.

            1. roytrubshaw
              Headmaster

              Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

              "There are only 3! Indy movies"

              <pedant>

              So that's 6 Indy films then; what are the final two?

              (3! = 3 x 2 x 1 = 6)

              </pedant>

              :)

        2. stucs201

          Re: I do not remember that from any of the 3 Indiana Jones films

          Obligatory XKCD : https://xkcd.com/566/

          1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

            Re: I do not remember that from any of the 3 Indiana Jones films

            There are only three Indiana Jones movies. Period.

        3. 2460 Something
          Thumb Up

          Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

          @Don Dumb If I could up-vote you more I would!

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

      IoT fridge.

      Can you ddos an asteroid?

      1. EricM
        Happy

        Re: Can you ddos an asteroid?

        Well, technically that would be a simple DOS ( or DOO - denial of orbit) . A DDOS would require a lot of IoT fridges ...

        1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

          Re: Can you ddos an asteroid?

          "A DDOS would require a lot of IoT fridges ..."

          I'd be happy with that solution too.

    4. Pedigree-Pete
      Joke

      Re: As a U.S. taxpayer, I can get behind this...

      It's only a payload if someone is paying for it to be loaded and transported. Perhaps we can round up a few bucks, squid, shekels, euros get any quantity of Bud anything, off the market.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Kindly alter the trajectory so it'll come flaming down on top of Nkandla, kthanxbai.

    1. Sceptic Tank Silver badge
      Mushroom

      Nkandla

      And what if the Zuptas aren't home? Rock wasted. Taxpayer-funded chicken coop binne in sy moer in*.

      * = "Broken".

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Nkandla

        > binne in sy moer in

        Donner, that takes me back a bit....

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Nkandla

          Die regte term is "in sy moer in"

          But yes, they'll have to arrange for Zupta and Co to be present at Nkandla when the rock comes crashing down.

          And to satisfy PETA, the chicken coop (and cattle kraal) be relocated to a safe location prior to impact.

          Fire pool can remain, it'll just add a lot of steam to the inferno.

  6. Scott Broukell
    Coat

    I'm not entirely sure that they Oort to do this. I mean if you piss off the baby asteroids then their larger siblings and otherwise related seriously large lumps of rock and ice might come looking for you!

    1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Coat

      It's true. The asteroids will want revenge, after NASA has belted this one with a fridge.

      But we could just tell them, to chill.

      1. Gordon 10

        And where does it end? The oort cloud retaliates, and we do the same and before you know it every one is trying to comet genocide.

        1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
          Happy

          I'm sure we can sort this out like civilised beings.

          I know we gave them a quick Hale-Bopp. But after a Swift-Tuttle, I'm sure they'll forgive us.

          1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

            "But after a Swift-Tuttle, I'm sure they'll forgive us."

            Is that even legal in most civilised jurisdiction?

          2. Gordon 10

            Nnnooooo!

            Everyone knows the next level of escalation after a Hale-Bopp is an MMMBop that will end us all.

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHozn0YXAeE

            1. Chris G

              Gordon 10 you evil bastard! your link should have a warning on it!

              1. Korev Silver badge
                Mushroom

                I was expecting Mr Astley's finest - not sure if that's any better...

                Yes, from orbit ->

  7. Neil 32

    I still prefer the pool table idea from Red Dwarf! Fridges may contain beer and bacon!

  8. Pen-y-gors

    Velocity?

    around 6 km per second (“about nine times faster than a bullet”

    Many of us in the old world are not really familiar with how fast a bullet travels - is it time for a new Reg Standards Bureau unit? The 'velocity of a sheep in vacuum' is a bit limited.

    A tractor on a country road on August Bank Holiday?

    The "dead cert" I had a tenner on in the Grand National?

    And we could probably derive a unit of acceleration due to gravity based on observation of the speed of a £DUP as it falls off a magic money tree to the ground.

    1. sitta_europea Silver badge

      Re: Velocity?

      You're not supposed to be informed. You're supposed to be impressed.

    2. sebt
      Facepalm

      Re: Velocity?

      "A tractor on a country road on August Bank Holiday?"

      Speed of a caravan on the A82?*

      **

      *In case you're not Scottish, this is the main road from Glasgow to the West Highlands. Almost single-track in places.

      **Not just on August Bank Holiday, because a caravan on the A82 takes all summer to get from Dumbarton to Crianlarich.

    3. Pirate Dave Silver badge
      Pirate

      Re: Velocity?

      "Many of us in the old world are not really familiar with how fast a bullet travels"

      just rough ballpark - the bullet from a .223/5.56 NATO round is zipping along at around 6531 Linguine/sec. The 7.62 projectile from an AK-47 is somewhat slower at around 5107 Linguine/sec. There's a speedier round called the .204 Ruger that zips along at 9144 Linguine/sec with a lightweight bullet. By comparison, the .45 ACP pistol bullet is barely flying at 1850 Linguine/sec.

      So, eh, there's a lot of potential variance in his comparison of "nine times faster than a bullet".

      1. lglethal Silver badge
        Trollface

        Re: Velocity?

        Who said the bullet had to be moving? If the bullet is still sitting in the chamber it's only going as fast as the schlup lugging the gun around...

        1. DropBear
          Trollface

          Re: Velocity?

          Not really, considering the chamber itself is zipping around at about 30km/s at all times, as far as we can tell...

        2. Pirate Dave Silver badge
          Pirate

          Re: Velocity?

          " If the bullet is still sitting in the chamber it's only going as fast as the schlup lugging the gun around..."

          So... if NASA puts a loaded gun in the fridge, then it's not technically going nine times faster than a bullet, it's going the exact speed of a bullet.

  9. sitta_europea Silver badge

    Of the known asteroids (potentially threatening or otherwise), how many are binaries?

    1. Sir Runcible Spoon
      1. Ralph the Wonder Llama
        Joke

        10.

        FTFY.

  10. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge
    Coat

    Cool stuff!

    well, it is a refrigerator, after all

    Oh dear, puns getting that bad this early in the week? Doesn't bode well, I'd better get me coat

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cool stuff!

      You need to chill.

      1. Michael H.F. Wilkinson Silver badge

        Re: Cool stuff!

        Absolutely!

  11. Pete 2 Silver badge

    How many points does NASA get for that?

    From "The Book"

    There was one inhabited planet in the seventh dimension that got used as a ball in a game of intergalactic bar billiards. It got potted straight into a black hole, killing ten billion people.

    It only scored thirty points.

    I wonder if they can arrange a canon off it's larger twin?

    1. sebt
      Happy

      Re: How many points does NASA get for that?

      There's a very silly (and enjoyable) free-download game called Pluto's Revenge, which involves exactly that. Pluto has a baseball bat and whacks asteroids at the other planets. Because it's miffed at being downgraded from true planet status.

      Also has a deeply weird soundtrack.

  12. wolfetone Silver badge

    Look

    Give Dave Lister a load of booze and a snooker table, and he'll deal with any asteroids ok?

  13. sawatts
    Mushroom

    Non-threatening

    Well, it _was_ non-threatening...

    1. Timbo

      Re: Non-threatening

      "Well, it _was_ non-threatening..."

      ...until some numbskull NASA bloke decided to recycle his old fridge and send it on a one-way trip to some rock...

      At least we have until "the early 2020's" to enjoy ourselves and not have to worry about too much...like Trump, Brexit, Syria, Russia, China, IS, the Tories, Corbyn, Putin, North Korea, Microsoft, Musk, TOWIE, Bake Off, Strictly, Murdoch, England teams.....so, not many will remember the odd case of a 160m wide mini-asteroid being sent off course and no doubt delivering a huge surplus of raw materials to the soon to be depleted Earth.

      I wonder if NASA could sell the asteroids mineral wealth to the highest bidder and hence ensure an expedited delivery direct to the end customer !!

      1. Pedigree-Pete
        Happy

        Re: Non-threatening

        @Timbo and the Comentariat. Am I the only one that now has Billy Joels "We didn't start the Fire" going round my head?

        1. 404

          Re: Non-threatening

          Yes.

  14. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge
    Thumb Down

    Forward-looking statements should be removed from the glossy prospectus

    Only a small change in a threatening asteroid's orbit would be needed to swing it away from Earth, as long as it happens “well before the predicted impact”.

    I missed the part where this "well before the predicted impact" warnings comes and we actually have the technological capacity to do anything at all about said impact withjin a 20y timeframe.

    I'm really starting to hate nerds who watch Sci-Fi and then go to NASA.

    1. EricM

      Re: Forward-looking statements should be removed from the glossy prospectus

      Well, modify the security- and cost-obsessed current space project setups to be result-oriented.

      Then give it 5 years and just 10% of NATO's combined budget and we'll probably be fine...

      But I agree : Observing it earlier would take a lot of stress out of that project...

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Thumb Up

      Overstating the effect needed

      Only a small change in a threatening asteroid's orbit would be needed to swing it away from Earth, as long as it happens “well before the predicted impact”.

      A collision occurs when the asteroid and the Earth are at the same place at the same time. Since the Earth's diameter is only 13,000 km, and the asteroid would be impacted at say 500 million away, it only needs to be slowed down by less than a millionth of its orbital speed to avoid its orbit passing through the Earth's orbit at the instant that the Earth was also at that point. Passing through the Earth's orbit six hours later than the Earth passes through the same point would more than sufficient. This is more "imperceptibly slowing it down" than "swinging it away".

  15. Toltec

    Size matters

    Are we talking about a small, under the worktop fridge or one of those American style fridges that can double as a small bedsit?

    1. Santa from Exeter
      Joke

      Re: Size matters

      Neither, everyone's reading it wrong.

      They're not going to throw *a* fridge, they're going to throw *The* Fridge!

      1. 404

        Re: Size matters

        Even with armor pads, he's too squishy to throw at a comet. Need something solid, like Trump's head...

      2. Korev Silver badge
        Pint

        Re: Size matters

        They're not going to throw *a* fridge, they're going to throw *The* Fridge!

        Have a Perry Sir ->

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Time to update the old joke

    What's the similarity between a Martian* girl and a fridge?

    They both drip during re-entry**

    *Insert region you wish to insult here.

    ** Desmond Llewelyn RIP.

  17. Emmeran

    Must be a British idea

    Does NASA truly expect us to believe that anyone in America takes darts seriously enough to come up with this idea?

    1. Chris G

      Re: Must be a British idea

      Turn of the century I was living in N Cal, up in the Gold Country we had a darts league, I was a member of the local team. There were a few ex-pats like me playing but mostly yanks, there were quite a few of them who could throw a pretty mean dart and aerospace bods are a dime a dozen in N Cal.

  18. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

    William Perry

    Never mind Bruce Willis - from the headline, I thought they meant...

    this guy

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    'a non-threatening small asteroid'

    Once we've hit it with a fridge it might go from 'non-threatening' to bloody furious.

    1. Alister

      Re: 'a non-threatening small asteroid'

      Prof. Timothy Fielding: I'm sorry, I'm sorry! Can I put this into some sort of perspective? When I caught Gerald in '68 he was completely wild.

      Gerald, the Gorilla: Wild? I was absolutely livid!

  20. Version 1.0 Silver badge

    Maths anyone?

    If we know the mass of the fridge, impact velocity and the mass and velocity of the asteroid - shouldn't we know what's going to happen?

    Realistically, if we have a big lump of rock coming at us, does anyone think that 3 years is enough time to get ready for it? Nobody even spotted the Chelyabinsk meteor - had that been a nickel rock, somewhat larger, we'd still recovering (if we were lucky). Does anyone wonder if there are bigger lumps in the meteor streams that we pass through every year?

  21. Stevie

    Bah!

    Fools!

    The response of the enraged Clangers to this unprovoked attack will be swift, decisive and permanent.

    1. Alister

      Re: Bah!

      The response of the enraged Clangers to this unprovoked attack will be swift, decisive and permanent.

      Well... it depends what's in the fridge...

      They might regard it as a most welcome food parcel, after years, and years, and years of bloody soup!

  22. Daniel 18

    Doing the math, at least a little

    Let's see...

    Maximum change in asteroid velocity would require a direct hit normal to the surface.

    Deviations from a normal impact will 'waste' energy changing the angular momentum, but not affect the velocity of the body.

    Assuming a direct impact normal to the surface (ie... in line with the centre of mass)...

    Mass of NASA object ... I believe I read somewhere that it was one ton? one tonne?

    Let's go with tonne...

    Velocity of DART approximately 6,000 m/sec.

    Stony asteroids range from about 3 - 5 gm/cm^3, or 3 - 5 tonnes/m^3.

    Lets go with 3 tonnes / m^3.

    Diameter of smaller asteroid is about 160 m. Estimate mass at 3 x (4/3) x 80^3 x pi, or roughly 6.5 million tonnes.

    Maximum velocity change is thus on the order of 6,000 m/sec / 6.5 x 10^6 or about .00093 m/sec, or .9 mm/sec.

    But... this is unlikely to be enough to break up the binary asteroid pair, so gravity will couple the two masses, the second of which is about 780 m in diameter, thus with a mass on the rough order of (780/160)^3 = 116 times greater, implying a probable maximum change in velocity of the asteroid pair of about .9 / 116 = .0078 mm/sec.... or less if the energy gets converted into spin, or potential energy in the binary pair?? (need to think about that some more... it's been a long time since I've had to do physics).

    Someone with a better grasp of orbital mechanics will have to tell us how much that will change the orbit of the asteroids...

    Yes, I know there are various assumptions of geometry and material, etc, here, but this is order of magnitude stuff, not an exact solution.

    1. Long John Brass
      Coat

      Re: Doing the math, at least a little

      Mass of NASA object ... I believe I read somewhere that it was one ton? one tonne?

      A one tonne fridge! Where are the noodles?

  23. Daniel 18

    More energetic choices...

    A long time ago I read a study on asteroid deflection that was assuming a relatively short (approximately two year) time frame before impact.

    What they thought would do the job was half a dozen 100 megaton warheads.

  24. This post has been deleted by its author

  25. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Up

    This is an outstanding idea. Asteroids are the only way to travel round the Solar System.

    For the foreseeable future it's going to take a looooong time to get from A to B in our solar system, which means you'll get cooked by a lot of radiation.

    Those elaborately crufted Aluminium cans that NASA, ESA, JAXA, ISRO are the Chinese build have roughly the radiation protection equivalence of 0.5% of the Earths atmosphere. OTOH 3m of Mars regolith will give you radiation protection equal to Earths atmosphere.

    But that's a damm heavy lump of mass to get into LEO.

    Asteroids are already in orbit. Even a small one one packs a huge amount of internal volume, and can still give you 3m thick walls.

    This is the start of an actual viable way for humans to explore the Solar System.

  26. GrapeBunch

    Door

    I guess they're assuming that nothing is living inside the Asteroid. Just in case we haven't had enough Science Fiction today, or any day.

    When I read the article, I thought that they would land their equipment (softly) on the larger of the pair and then use that as the base to launch the fridge at the smaller. Thus the momentum of the pair would be maintained. That's not what the video showed. And depending on how the larger is rotating, it could introduce uncertainty into the question of whether they'll hit the smaller at all. English probably needs a new expression for poor aim, because: "What's a barn, Daddy?"

    1. cosymart
      Holmes

      Re: Door

      It's that strange building with no garden in the middle of a farmyard right next to the dung heap that yuppies pay 100s thousands of pounds to live in.

  27. 2460 Something
    Alien

    Not a threat...

    So they are choosing to hit an asteroid that isn't a threat? What happens when it decides to retaliate?

  28. Daggerchild Silver badge
    FAIL

    Kids today...

    A dangerous fridge in space, on a tech forum, and no mention of Cowboy Bebop?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_97M0tV94CM

  29. ProperDave

    Given this is NASA, can the DART/IoT Fridge do us live tweets of its progress?

    Could we call it Bruce?

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