back to article British Airways poised to shed 1,000 jobs to Capita

Two brands that people love to hate today stand poised to forge an alliance: British Airways plans to outsource call centre management to Capita, sending 1,000 employees into the belly of the beast. The airline will offload the handling of nearly ten million customer calls from centres in Manchester and Newcastle, mimicking …

  1. Korev Silver badge

    They'll be good together...

    ...after all they've both had massive datacentre outages.

    Seriously, good luck to all those involved.

  2. djstardust

    BA

    Would never fly with them. Toxic company who rip off the British public then send the profits offshore. UK Gov should do something about this but won't as big business dictates the law.

    Some day stock market companies like this will put the customer first before profits but it's gonna take something really bad to make this happen. BA came close recently.

    I treat them with the same contempt as Marks & Spencer, WH Shit and Boots of Nottingham (Monaco)

    Bastards the lot of them.

    1. Little Mouse

      Re: BA

      Bloody Hell - Capita have scored less on your obnoxious-ometer than the company they're doing business with.

      A pox on ALL their houses, I say.

      1. N2

        Re: BA

        Spelling: there's an r in Capita - you know where it goes.

  3. GreggS

    British Airways?

    Not any more.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: British Airways?

      Well they Marks and Spencer food onboard now. Thats Brit-ish.

      It feels like BP have performed a stealthy hostile takeover of BA.

      Customer service handled by disinterested Indians.

      Has a Marks and Spencer onsite.

      Sells exactly the same as other similar businesses but at a higher price.

      When cockups occur they are true disasters.

      Sounds like how BP runs their drilling and petrol stations.

  4. Arthur the cat Silver badge

    I'm old enough ...

    to remember when flying BA was a good thing(*). Tell that to youngsters these days, they won't believe you.

    (*) "I'm sorry sir, none of the other passengers want champagne, would you mind finishing the bottle yourself?" [Business class of course.]

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I'm old enough ...

      When I first moved overseas (30 years ago), I used to pay extra to fly home on BA and felt the experience was worth it - about 15 years ago that started to change and ten years ago I gave up on them altogether after back to back disastrous trips, both of which entailed me buying same day tickets on other airlines and one of which caused me to spend 16 hours on Christmas day in Brussels airport - and never even getting apologies or acknowledgement from BA.

      Not sure who would be in the call centers in the UK, since I never spoke to anyone who wasn't in India, but maybe they moved things back onshore in the past decade.

      Fuck em, I hope they get bought out or go bankrupt sooner rather than later.

      1. David Neil

        Re: I'm old enough ...

        Spoke to them several times in April and their call centre people were all Indian - no idea they had anyone this side of the world.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "no idea of UK callcentres"

          "Spoke to them several times in April and their call centre people were all Indian - no idea they had anyone this side of the world."

          Up until this, the latest round of "cost efficiencies" there are three reasons why you would get to talk to the (generally very nice, intelligent, and not "computer says no" people in the UK) :

          a) You were making a sales call. Until recently there was a very good chance that if you were buying something, you would be talking to someone in the UK.

          b) You were calling customer service *but* were Gold tier or above on exec. club (this is now going to Capita though)

          c) Someone at BA needed to talk to you (e.g. call center agent logged a complex pricing request for you and someone from ticketing was calling you back)

          In terms of (b), before some Corbyn supporter starts complaining about the "privileged few", let me make something perfectly clear (speaking as someone who suffered BA back and forth for work in economy class sufficiently to be Gold for a few years until last year) that :

          • Post-sales customer service callcentre for gold sucks as much as it does for everyone else (once BA have your money they don't care, they used to dish out Avios on a whim if you complained, but they don't even do that any more. If you want free Avios for complaining, your best bet is to have a genuine complaint (e.g. seat broken, IFE broken etc.) and then find talk nicely to the crew member with the "magic iPad" on your BA flight. The iPad has more power than the callcentre in terms of getting you Avios ).

          • Golds don't really get treated any better "on the ground". Priority boarding is about the only vaguely useful perk. The rest is "meh". Yes you get lounge access, but the food is horrible and the lounge generally overcrowded anyway because of delayed flights etc. Yes Golds are supposed to have better access to Avios redemption on flights, but Gold or not, I've always struggled to find any useful availability opened up on flights to use Avios. You don't get free upgrades (in however many years I was gold, I only ever got one upgrade).

          I am currently Silver level and quite frankly have not noticed any practical differences in benefits apart from I am restricted to Business instead of First lounges at airports, but having seen the First lounges I know I am not missing much (*except* at NRT where they serve the most amazing sushi in the First lounge there, I really miss that ..... although I don't get to visit Japan much these days anyway).

          1. JasonLaw

            Re: "no idea of UK callcentres"

            I fly 40 times a year, on average, mostly long-haul. I've been BA Gold for 4 of the last 6 years and silver for the other two. It probably costs £15k a year to maintain Gold.

            * The Gold reward flights are far, FAR more available than Silver. As long as there are available fare-paying seats left and you have 1-month notice, they will make a seat available for Avios (for double points).

            * I probably score an upgrade twice a year. It used to be more frequent. When I first started going to Australia, it was probably one in four. They now only upgrade if the cabin is oversold. If there are empty seats, you ain't getting one.

            * The LHR T5 First lounge is pretty good, especially since April when you have direct access from the check-in. I normally rip the pants out of the Johnny Walker Blue Label (£160/bottle), which greatly exceeds the cost of the £35 reward flight. I agree the food isn't all that.

            * In the last approx. 250 flights, I have had maybe 3 short delays, no cancellations and zero lost luggage. I flew the otherwise fantastic Singapore Airways last month and they misplaced my luggage for 36 hours - sometimes shit happens.

            * The cabin crew can be a bit hit and miss. I've had two flights (out of 20) this year where they were surly and unhelpful. I've also had amazing service. Even their best now looks like a drunken fumble compared to Singapore, Emirates and Qatar who are in a different league - and frequently cheaper than BA.

            * Their modern fleet like the A380 and B767 are great, but I flew a diesel B744 clunker back from ORD in April that was frankly an embarrassment. Shite IFE, shite seat but great crew. Go figure. They ripped the old club Europe A320 2+2 seats out a couple of years ago and replaced them with standard 3+3 economy ones with the middle seat blocked out. Why anybody would pay for this is a mystery.

            * The Gold call centre has very short/nil hold times. The staff have been universally great, friendly, and sounded local. I hope this doesn't change, but I'm sure Crapita will fuck it up.

            * The new 'pay for food & drink' policy on European flights is a travesty. If I fly internal on AA or QF, who both charge for drinks, then pulling the Gold card gets free booze. Not so on BA. As somebody else said, if it's a race to the bottom, Ryanair already won.

      2. Snowy Silver badge
        Flame

        Re: I'm old enough ...

        [quote]Fuck em, I hope they get bought out or go bankrupt sooner rather than later.[quote]

        International Consolidated Airlines Group, S.A., often shortened to IAG, is an Anglo-Spanish multinational airline holding company with its operational headquarters in London, England and officially registered in Madrid, Spain for taxation and currency purposes. To me that makes them Spainish not British.

        As for being taken over Qatar Airways has been steadily increasing it holding in IAG (From 9.99% to close to 12% In April 2016, currently it ownes 20.01%) (http://www.es.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=240949&p=irol-holdingsshares) so only a matter of time?

  5. Alister
    Facepalm

    And yet these companies still expect their employees to have a sense of loyalty and corporate pride. Amazing!

    1. Hollerithevo

      "To fly, to serve"

      When I saw their new 'to fly, to serve' motto on billboards, claiming to be continuing a proud tradition of excellence, I thought 'uh oh'. A few flights later, on tired, over-worked, scruffy planes where the staff were clearly either sullen or exhausted, I decided to try others. United have been good, WizzAir great, etc.

    2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

      I have heard you can order a box of loyalty on Amazon now.

      Often bought together: a box of loyalty and a box of pride. Now with 20% off.

      Same day shipping!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    All those TUPE'd know what is coming.

    Your job will go overseas as soon as Crapita can get away with it.

    So do you vote with your feet and leave or hope that you will get more than the statutory minimum redundacy payment (unlikely)

    It seems that any IT job with a large company is at risk of going overseas. With that and the HMRC IR35 fiasco, is it any wonder that a good few of my former colleagues are working in other industries. A huge amount of experience and skill has been lost purely down to the shortsightedness of the PHB's/becancounters. They seem to be immune from Redundancy. I wonder why...?

    My job went to India last October and they have made a complete [redacted] of the work. Tough, I'm enjoying my retirement too much to want to go back.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All those TUPE'd know what is coming.

      "Your job will go overseas as soon as Crapita can get away with it." spake an anonymous coward.

      No, my friend, judging by Crapita's current bottom line, they will offshore them long before that and still keep wondering why nobody loves them any more.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: All those TUPE'd know what is coming.

      Mass resignation is the only answer. If you stay you transfer your knowledge and are then no longer needed. Don't wait, leave now. Your pension and security have already been compromised.

  7. Richard Jones 1
    WTF?

    What Does BA Mean?

    I used to like them / use them 30 or 40 years ago before they were called BA. Now-a-days I thought that BA stood for Bloody Awful.

    Their current efforts to justify my understanding of what BA represents are outstanding.

    Its about the only thing about them that crawls above 'grim'. Happily I will never expect to travel anyway and foreign travel would never involve them, (and a few other skip divers from the travel world).

    1. Sean o' bhaile na gleann

      Re: What Does BA Mean?

      "...before they were called BA...."

      Weren't they BOAC? As in "Better On A Camel" (or, at the height of the Profumo scandal, "Bend Over Again Christine"...

      1. James O'Shea

        Re: What Does BA Mean?

        "Weren't they BOAC? As in "Better On A Camel" "

        hah. They could have been worse, then. There was also BWIA, Britain's Worst Investment Abroad, or Better Wait In Airport. and But Will It Arrive. They were _much_ worse than the camel-jockeys. Many is the time that I spent many an hour waiting BWIA flights out of Piarco in Trinidad, or Grantley Adams in Barbados, or, God help us, Norman Manley in Jamaica. The only good thing about being stuck at Norman Manley was that the duty-free rum was cheap and drinkable. I once arrived at Piarco at Very Early O'Clock, a.k.a. 05:00, to get on a flight connecting to Miami and then to Chicago. I was on time. They were late. Very, very, very late, causing me to miss my connecting flight by five hours. I finally arrived at Chicago at 00:45 next day. Just to make things complete, when I left Trinidad it was 90 degrees F. When I arrived in Chicago it was minus 30 F. And snowing. If I had arrived on time I'd have avoided what turned out to be the start of the biggest blizzard to hit Chicago in 30 years. Thanks _ever_ so much, BWIA.

        1. Aladdin Sane

          Re: What Does BA Mean?

          BOAC - Boeing Only Airways Corporation. They had UK companies custom design cabs like the VC10 for them, then ordered Boeing cabs in bulk.

        2. Melanie Winiger

          Re: What Does BA Mean?

          I want to fly with James O'Shea!!

  8. adam payne

    "Capita has also seen its fair share of financial troubles. In December, the outsourcer said it would axe roughly 2,250 staff, which includes sending more jobs to the subcontinent in order to combat a post-Brexit slowdown."

    Capita the only outsourcer with time travel.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Or the Brexiteering Evil Hand Of Putler was briefly visible through ... Capita?

  9. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    They used to say "experience is a dear teacher but there are those who will learn at no other". Now it seems there or those who won't even learn from experience.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Now it seems there or those who won't even learn from experience.

      Given the stranglehold BA have on landing slots at the major London terminals, there's little competitive pressure, so why would they feel any need to change their behaviours? At Heathrow, IAG have what, about 54% of all slots.

      1. Richard 12 Silver badge

        They'll lose them if they carry on trying to be a budget airline.

        BA used to be worth the premium, because they ended up being only a little more, sometimes lower overall cost (luggage etc) while having much better service.

        Now they're just more expensive with the same or worse service.

        The new CEO is an idiot - in the race to the bottom, RyanAir have already won.

        1. Brenda McViking

          I heard a recent presentation saying their costs are 500% of the likes of Ryanair and other low cost carriers(LCCs). I can believe it - they're an old (but still respected) company with too much legacy baggage and in need of an overhaul and a diet to become competitive again.

          Absolutely the wrong way about it is to (as a first step) make the experience like Ryanair in order to reduce their costs - indeed, the passenger experience should be the absolute last to be cut if they're going to survive - their customer base is different to those that opt for LCCs and their current CEO Alex Cruz doesn't seem to understand that at all. If they want to be the Apple of the skies charging the premium that people will pay, they know what to do.

          Reputation takes a lifetime to build and a day to destroy - and no doubt BA have enough overpaid "brand" managers to tell them that. Pity they're taking no heed of it right now.

  10. kain preacher
    Joke

    What's the worst that could happen ?

  11. a_yank_lurker

    Placing Bets

    When will BA go belly up? What is the line?

    1. James O'Shea

      Re: Placing Bets

      they've been dead before. Nothing changes.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Placing Bets

      Inexplicably, no time soon.

      Last year they turned over £11.4 billion making £1.5 billion in profit and had another £2.5 billion in the bank.

      They must be selling a lot of those M&S sandwiches in economy.

  12. Your alien overlord - fear me

    Because last months fan wasn't big enough :-)

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So, what fun things will they come up with in order to make merry with travellers stranded at foreign airports for long stretches of time?

    Only time will tell, but they will find ways and means to [redacted] a fully redundant data centre completely.

  14. TrumpSlurp the Troll

    As with others

    I can remember when BA (or BEA) were consumate professionals. Back in the 70s.

    In the 80s it depended on the route.

    Flying to the USA you got good treatment.

    However I flew to Dublin once a month and the B(E)A flight was a punishment duty for jaded staff, who exuded hate for all around.

    Air Lingus had this as their premier route and were wonderful.

    Now I wouldn't fly BA given the option.

    Others try harder and charge less.

    1. Korev Silver badge

      Re: As with others

      Air Lingus are part of IAG too.

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Capita?

    They are almost universally loathed. (Totally screwed up the payroll they supposedly process, where my wife works, by the way)

    Surely even BA wouldn't choose to send their already tarnished reputation into a nosedive?

    Surely?

    AC because wife and employer.

  16. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Warning Signs

    I can remember history lessons (in my yoof) describing entire civilisations destroyed not by disasters or invaders, but internal greed and corruption. More and more I wonder if we are heading for another such 'event'.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Flight announcement

      Decline and Fall of the (Choose from list) empire.

      BA

      UK

      EU

      IBM

      B of E

      insert own choice

      I'm going abroad, using AA ( Another Airline).

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Denied Boarding: BA robbed us!

    BA kept the total cost of the flights except taxes. Regulator did nothing! WARNING: After Brexit transit rules will become more complex, meaning more travelers will be duped and denied boarding losing all flights and $!

  18. Chairman of the Bored
    Flame

    Yeah, Im pissed

    Talked to the UK staff on several occasions and always came away feeling like I'd been treated with respect and courtesy. Hopes and prayers for them and their families. Deserved better.

    No ... f'ing ... way ... will be be doing BA across the pond now.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    No more jobs - stop the jobs!

    I look forward to the day, in the not too distant future, when we are so efficient that no one has a job.

    We can all sit around in togas and eat fruit.

    Reminiscent of the scene from Rod Taylor's movie: "The Time Machine" [1960]

    ...bliss

    someone is drowning you say?

  20. hoofie

    A shadow of their former self.

    In the 1990's I used a to fly a lot between the UK and the Middle East and other points.

    Believe me there was nothing better than climbing up the stairs, noting the big RR [Rolls Royce] symbol on the engine cowlings and the Union Jack coloured tail fin.

    Onboard the staff were immaculate, the service good and efficient. Best of all - booze. Very welcome after 3 months in a dry country. The drinks trolley was being pushed up the aisle as soon as the wheels left the ground. "Gin and Tonic Sir ? Certainly, here's a handful of minatures to start with".

    Finally you knew the pilot was almost certainly called Nigel and had already spent years piloting Her Majesty's finest Military Aircraft around Europe and other places before moving across to the civilian side.

    Finally there was Concorde - a sublime experience that made Johnny Foreigner green with envy [especially the Yanks] and was the equivalent of a smack between the eyes with a picture of the Queen. The rot started when Concorde stopped - at that point they became just another bus company.

  21. MrXavia
    Mushroom

    Well that is BA on my no fly list!

    UK Call centers for UK airlines is critical to keeping customers..

    BA is crashing and burning as a business... next they will outsource their maintenance to crapita.

  22. This post has been deleted by its author

  23. Grunt #1
    Flame

    End of empire

    Yes, a predecessor was called Imperial Airways.

    It seems this country is determined to self implode. For as long as I can remember we have sold everything to the highest bidder, often foreign. Heavy industry at scale is gone. Manufacturing at scale is gone. Soon we will lose large parts of our banking business. The service industry is going abroad. Can you name a British technology company of scale or quality? What will be left apart from consumers watching day time TV( American) and living off their meagre savings and pensions. It is happening everywhere, no wonder Trump gets into power by offering a land of milk and honey or Maybe offering strong and stable government (yet another success story). I have no idea if Labour can do any better, but I understand why people hope they can. Perhaps this is the price we have to pay for improving the lot of the rest of the world, but why aren't we competing before the Chinese own everything?

    Rant over and I'll go back to reading about the Industrial Revolution, now those were the days.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: End of empire

      "I have no idea if Labour can do any better"

      Having witnessed their various attempts since the mid-'60s I have very firm ideas about that. IMV it started to go wrong with Wilson.

    2. Terry 6 Silver badge

      Re: End of empire

      Accountants. It's a simple answer. Big businesses have placed their future in the hands of people who only care about today's bottom line and share value, not what they produce. The idea that the company exists to create a product and then sell it at a higher price than it costs to make/provide is replaced by one where the product is seen as an inconvenient detail. The real product is executive bonuses.

  24. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Call centre mostly OK but...

    Last week: confirmed booking of wheelchair for 92 yo relative flying MAN>LHR>DME. Paid a premium "because it's BA". I'm travelling MAN>FRA>DME in a couple of weeks, flying Luftwaffe and paying half what she paid for BA.

    Wheelchair provided in MAN and confirmed for LHR&DME by both check-in and the MAN wheelchair service who said: stay on the plane until most passengers have disembarked and you'll be met with a wheelchair and helped to disembark

    21:00 arrived LHR no wheelchair, cabin crew helped her into the terminal.

    In terminal a BA rep said "there's no booking on the system", you'll have to walk but hurry or you'll miss your flight. He then walked away. Accompanying passenger went apeshit and a wheelchair did arrive and rushed them through.

    No problem with wheelchair service in DME so is it just BA Heathrow that's in a mess?

    We did need to use BA call centre before the flight - very polite, helpful, attentive, couldn't flaw them except the call handler's accent was very challenging, a lot of need to spell things out in phonetic alphabet.

  25. kain preacher

    Can we some how roll SAP and oracle into this deal ? I want to see this reach critical mass and explode.

  26. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Good old days.

    I personally know one of the despatchers at Heathrow. I always speak to him to sort my bokkings and...er...free upgrade out.

    I also know a bunch of ex-pilots and my mother was air crew for 25 years.

    Even the way they use the air crew has changed. They used to rest the air crew for a few days before assigning them to another flight. These days apparently they get a few hours kip and return on the flight they came on.

    Mind you, back in the good old days mybold man used to travel with mum for free while she was on duty and he used to travel in the spare cockpit jump seat with the pilots.

    I can't imagine that happening today.

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