back to article NSA leaker bust gets weirder: Senator claims hacking is wider than leak revealed

The strange tale of former NSA contractor Reality Winner just got stranger, after a US senator alleged the information she leaked about Russian hacking under-stated the extent of Russia's activities. Speaking to USA Today in the video below, Virginia senator Mark Warner, the senior Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee …

  1. Frumious Bandersnatch

    curiouser and curiouser

    I seem to have fallen down a rabbit hole.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: curiouser and curiouser

      I'm as confused as a bag of badgers.

      Senator claims hacking is bigger but confirms no hacking actually took place.

      The Arab world shut out Qatar on Trumps apparent orders but America has a massive base there.

      Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest sponsors of terror (Salafist jihadist), has appalling human rights yet are America's best buddy.

      You couldn't make this shit up. I think I need to sit down and have an Aspirin.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: curiouser and curiouser

        He's not "confirming no hacking actually took place". He said no such thing. He's saying he's not aware of any vote totals being changed. The fact they tried to hack registration databases and voting software should be very concerning, even if completely unsuccessful. Unless we defend better, next time they might be more successful.

        This isn't a partisan issue, or shouldn't be. It is obvious why Putin would prefer Trump and dislike Clinton, but in general he's probably more likely to prefer democrats over republicans as until Trump republicans generally have taken a harder line on Russia. So next time his guys try to interfere with an election, it might be to help democrats.

        Consider that what Putin wants the most is chaos for the west, and the US in particular. So he'd probably love it if the democrats take back the house and senate, to guarantee a state of partisan gridlock.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: curiouser and curiouser

          There shouldn't be anything to defend.

          People vote, voting terminal tallies votes then at the end of the day they then connect and transmit votes or even better they print the totals and these are passed with representatives from each party present to confirm the numbers over the phone or in person.

          Any other design for such a system would be stupid. I really can't see someone creating an always online voting terminal though I may be wrong.

          1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

            Re: curiouser and curiouser

            "There shouldn't be anything to defend."

            Just use good old pencil & paper.

          2. Stoneshop
            Big Brother

            Re: curiouser and curiouser

            There shouldn't be anything to defend.

            No? How about the voter registration database, used to print out the list of who is entitled to vote in each district? Say, your name is Tuttle, but changing one single character will have you listed as Buttle. Voting is not going to happen for you until bureaucracy has been wrestled into submission and corrected the entry three years from now, or you have given in, requested a name change which has finally been granted[0]. Or you have two digits transposed in your address, or your date of birth. Those 'errors' will cause delays and people being turned away at the voting station,

            The actual voting totals don't need tampering if you take this route.

            [0] the initial problem will have been detected and corrected two days before the name change is to officially go into effect.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: curiouser and curiouser

              The voter registration database? I'll wager there aren't worse kept databases anywhere. Mistakes are made in every election and part of the problem is the database is always out of date and that stems from it trying to be a simple universal thing. Unfortunately it's as much a knotted greasy hairball as it is whack-a-mole. It's easy, register online, you don't need an ID and if you make a typo don't sweat it you can register again later and add the right name to the database and that pesky extra entry won't ever be used. If only it was as easy to unregister to vote.

              I feel sorry for the gent who's wife has passed and while I'm sure it's possible to get her removed it likely takes a trip to one government building or another with an official copy of the death certificate even though he shouldn't have to. What happens if the address on the death cert doesn't match the voter registration? That probably takes an affidavit and a few hours with a lawyer at $500/hr.

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: curiouser and curiouser

                The voting machines don't need to be online to be hacked. If you send the person responsible for maintaining the county's machines an 'update' from the 'vendor' and get them apply it. Or maybe infect USB sticks they might later use to transfer the votes off the machines to however they upload the results to the state.

                We should be using paper ballots and doing random recounts of a couple percent as a mandatory audit, but we don't so you don't even need to change the votes on the voting machines to change the results of an election. They don't really have much of a security focus, and because states and not the federal government are responsible there will always be some easier targets. The electoral college keeps it safer than it otherwise would be, since you probably need to compromise multiple states, so it isn't easy, but it isn't impossible.

                As for registration, if you want to create distrust all you need to do is wipe thousands of republicans from the rolls in a key state or two, and when they go to vote they find they aren't on the list. Once it is determined it is basically only republicans affected and Fox News and Breitbart get hold of that, then all hell breaks loose and republicans don't trust the result. They'll assume it was crooked Hillary responsible somehow, even if it happens in a republican state, and by the time it is determined Russians are to blame all those low information Breitbart readers will "know" it was Hillary and assume the Russia blame was concocted by President Clinton's administration. Basically the "election fraud" stuff that Trump was banging on about for most of October as his prepared excuse for losing.

              2. Robert Helpmann??
                Coat

                Re: curiouser and curiouser

                I feel sorry for the gent who's wife has passed and while I'm sure it's possible to get her removed...

                Other than the obvious regret of someone's spouse passing away (or not, depending), it sounds more like an opportunity to log an extra entry at the polls. Who better to know the intent of one's dearly departed?

                Mine has the extra voter registration in the pocket.

        2. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

          Re: curiouser and curiouser

          The fact they tried to hack registration databases and voting software should be very concerning

          There is not even any information about that at all.

          So he'd probably love it if the democrats take back the house and senate, to guarantee a state of partisan gridlock.

          Back to the Clinton years? Then we watch OJ making a run for the border again. Oh great.

        3. Eddy Ito

          Re: curiouser and curiouser

          ... to guarantee a state of partisan gridlock.

          We can only hope for partisan gridlock. The less those idiots in Congress do the fewer rights we'll lose to their inane new laws. If we're really lucky, the courts will keep the hands of Donny's executive actions hogtied as well. There are times when I think it's sad to look back at gridlock with fond nostalgia but inevitably some politician opens their mouth and it becomes clear that gridlock may be the only way.

      2. GrapeBunch

        Re: curiouser and curiouser

        "You couldn't make this shit up. I think I need to sit down and have an Aspirin."

        I suggest you chew on a willow stick. There may be a dictaphone in your Aspirin. The Donald's promises to drain the swamp have not included the interlocking ooze of Bayer-Monsanto, nor Goldman-Sachs. No, those BuMG holeS remain attached to ever-thirsty lips. From your wallet to their damp heart-simulacra. Who needs Mar?land when you have Lagoland?

        PS: 9 physicians out of 10 confirm that Milk of Amnesia is more effective.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

      3. Fatman

        Re: curiouser and curiouser

        <quote>You couldn't make this shit up. I think I need to sit down and have an Aspirin consume copious quantities of an alcoholic beverage.</quote>

        There!

        FTFY!!

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Reds are under our beds

    This movie wasn't funny the first time around. Do Russians mess with our affairs? Yes, they probably do - same as we do with theirs. Are they behind every bad thing what happens to us in the world? If they were that powerful and smart, they won't be sitting in the pile of do-do they are currently in - so no.

    Now could we please start sorting out some of the more pressing mess we put ourselves in?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Reds are under our beds

      Are they behind every bad thing what happens to us in the world?

      Every major political thing - yes. There is at least them, USA/UK, sometimes France (they work separately from USA/UK), sometimes China and regional powers where applicable. Usually via local proxies.

      I am speaking out of own experience. I did a short stint in politics being one of the leaders in a student protest in an Eastern European country in my 3rd year in Uni. We protested against cuts to education and science during the post-wall-fall recession austerity and recession.

      The moment we managed to successfully "rise", there was a queue of gentlemen willing to alter the protest direction to suit the political needs of their masters. The USA/UK one had a very cute briefcase full of green notes. Being young and idealistic I ordered the goons to count the steps on the beautiful marble stairs of the historic university building with his arse. His arse made a very lovely plopping sound while doing so. The others were not that blunt, but they also had interesting offers.

      The whole experience put me off politics for life. I do however, instantly notice the hallmarks of who and when has influenced things - like the millions we invested into Ukraine to actively alter its political make-up against Russia (as well as the millions they invested to counter it).

      While the sums of money at play are usually nowhere near as big as what was invested into Ukraine, it is something which is being done none the less.

      1. ecofeco Silver badge

        Re: Reds are under our beds

        Exactly AC, and to think otherwise is incredible naivete.

  3. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

    It could be worse ...

    The proposed reason for turning Winner's life into shit is because she undermined confidence in the US election system. Imagine how little confidence people would have if all the results of investigations into election tampering were top secret and any attempt to publish them resulted in a decade in prison.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: It could be worse ...

      No, the proposed reason is because she leaked classified information. Granted, it is something that happens all the time, but she got caught. And caught because she did something totally stupid, sending scanned images of printed pages to a journalist using her work computer! I know 10 year olds that would have more sense than that!

      1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

        Re: It could be worse ...

        "she got caught"

        She'll be able to call Trump as a witness. He assures us it never happened so she couldn't have leaked it.

      2. Stoneshop

        Re: It could be worse ...

        sending scanned images of printed pages to a journalist using her work computer!

        Nope. She printed out a classified document at work, smuggled it out, sent it (anonymously) to The Intercept, who then proceeded to show it, identifying microdots and all, to a NSA contractor to verify. That contractor duly reported this to his superiors, who went to work locating the document and identifying who had accessed and printed it on that particular printer. Postmark on the envelope and using her work computer to send a message regarding a podcast to The Intercept using gmail was just icing on the cake.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @Stoneshop

          Actually she didn't "smuggle it out". She scanned it and emailed it from her work computer!

      3. fajensen

        Re: It could be worse ...

        No, the proposed reason is because she leaked classified information.

        The irony is that the leaking of this specific piece of "classified" information was obviously desired by "The Blob", they just needed a patsy to do the leaking. The problem is that "The Intercept" goes and grass up the source, officially and all, so now poor Winner is up for taking the fall over it.

        Like the Iraqi torture scandal - management wants certain things done, the minions goes to jail over it, while their management moves on to better, cosier, jobs in Washington DC.

  4. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Remeber it's only fake news when it doesn't say something we like.

    At least that seems to be the D's PoV.

    Now if this change of attitude to Quatar is a mistake and due to planted new stories then the US should be worried, especially as the D should have access to people who can tell him for real wheather or not people there sponsor terrorism.

    Because if they don't and he tweets they do then guess who's being played.

  5. Mikel

    I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

    But not as quid pro quo for throwing the election. We're entitled to a government that is for America first, last and always.

    As to Qatar, Trump probably doesn't even know that Iraq's invasion of them was our cue to the Gulf War. Probably doesn't know they're our most loyal ally in the region.

    I hope so, otherwise he's throwing us under the bus again on purpose.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

      Alternatively, you have seen another move in the long term game of chess that Putin is playing - note that this again further isolates the US and alienates a long time ally.

      As for Trump, his attention span won't even handle a game of tic tac toe so I see him merely as a pawn. The problem is that he is a WILLING pawn because it makes him money, so there are no excuses. All IMHO, of course.

      1. frank ly

        Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

        I believe that Trump is being used as a useful idiot by people who are even more scary that he is.

        1. ecofeco Silver badge
          Mushroom

          Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

          I believe that Trump is being used as a useful idiot by people who are even more scary that he is.

          He is. You can bet your life on it. In fact, we all have without our consent.

    2. Adam 52 Silver badge

      Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

      "As to Qatar, Trump probably doesn't even know that Iraq's invasion of them was our cue to the Gulf War."

      Err. Am I missing some really subtle joke?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Err. Am I missing some really subtle joke?"

        That, or the OP has the same geopolitical knowledge of Mr. Trump - and Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Yemen are interchangeable easily as needed.

    3. Pen-y-gors

      Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

      We're entitled to a government that is for America first, last and always.

      One problem with that attitude is that you end up very isolated. No other country (sorry, no other sensible country) will want to trade with you as they know you'll try to shaft them on any deal. No-one will trust your word when it comes to international agreements because they know you'll tear them up if you think it's in your national interest.

      Please Mr Trump, get on with building your wall all around the USA, and throw away the keys.

    4. Chris G

      Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

      Qatar may well be playing its own game, having along with Iran and Russia, some of the biggest gas reserves in the region. Qatar thinks it should have more con trol over its assets.

      1. John Smith 19 Gold badge
        Joke

        "Qatar thinks it should have more con trol over its assets."

        God dammed furriners.

        Acting like just because those resources are under their land they "own" them.

        There's only one currency oil and gas are sold in and it's not theirs.

        How dare they attempt to interrupt a free cartel.

        It's practically Socialist.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Qatar thinks it should have more con trol over its assets."

          It's practically Socialist.

          Bzzzt! Sorry, by order of His Orangeness, any references to Russia are now deemed to be positive and demonstrative of Great Leadership, because Putin has told him so. This order will stay in place until such time as any competent judge reviews it, at which point it will suffer the same fate as the Travel Ban that isn't a Travel Ban but still is a Travel Ban.

          Hereby ends the State Broadcast, do carry on.

    5. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: I like Russians. I could support rapproachment

      "As to Qatar, Trump probably doesn't even know that Iraq's invasion of them was our cue to the Gulf War."

      Given that it was Kuwait that was invaded I hope he doesn't know it was Qater although it wouldn't surprise me if he does.

  6. FuzzyWuzzys
    Facepalm

    OTT

    Reality Winner, don't people have normal names these days?!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: OTT

      They showed a picture of one of her social media accounts on the news and her name was listed as Sara Winner. So she might have had crazy parents, but apparently did not go by that name to her friends.

      Gotta give her parents credit though, she was born in 1992 when the first reality TV show, MTV's Real World, started. They saw the trend coming and named their daughter for it! :)

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: OTT

      After being jailed, she could change her name into Reality Won.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

    3. Trilkhai

      Re: OTT

      To paraphrase my 35-year-old brother: "People born in the early 80s can't be Millennials, we almost all got normal names!" :-)

      1. Stevie

        Re: OTT (Millennials have normal names)

        Yet only a decade before we delighted to Tarquin Fintimlin Whimbimlinbim Bus-Stop F'tang F'tang Ole Biscuit Barrel, and a decade before that Screaming Lord Such.

        Millennials are a boring bunch, t'would seem.

        Signed:

        Peter Brian Norman Scot Neigh! Frog-Gobbler Whoops Cuckoo-Cuckoo Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head Chuggata-Chuggata Bang! Smith.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: OTT

      "Reality Winner, don't people have normal names these days?!"

      Quite - where are all the people named Ethelred, Cecil, Cuthbert, Ethel, Florence, Enid?

      Faith, Hope, and Charity were favourite names at various times.

      Names in the past usually had a literal meaning that reflected a child's attributes or the parents' hopes for their future. Those meanings are often no longer commonly known.

      My own first name is apparently relatively uncommon these days - and I use the common abbreviation except in official documents. Yet in a hospital clinic recently I almost responded to two other calls for that full first name - both for men in my cohort. It was the same at school and in my career as the Baby Boomers progressed through life.

      In some countries there is still an official limited set of names that are allowed for birth registrations - generally of religious provenance.

      A Polish acquaintance has given her son a common Polish first name - but with the English spelling. She has also given him his English father's name with a Polish spelling. The father now has difficulty remembering how to spell his son's name.

      What has happened in the last few decades is that people are applying strangely different spellings for no apparent reason. Neighbours have just given their daughter an almost unpronounceable name by concatenating their own male and female first names into one long word.

      As The Bard said "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

      1. mstreet
        Joke

        Re: OTT

        "My own first name is apparently relatively uncommon these days"

        I don't think it's as rare as you think. I know quite a few Anonymous's

    5. Blitheringeejit
      Coat

      Re: OTT

      It's a rare outbreak of reverse nominative determinism - Chelsea Manning transitioned to woman, and now Reality Winner has lost bigtime.

      Perhaps the next one will be Putin's electioneering shenanigans getting fully rumbled, leaving him feeling extremely put out.

      Of course something similar might at some point happen to Trump - but I really don't want to go there.

      <Ahem>

      1. MiguelC Silver badge

        Re: OTT

        Chelasea Elizabeth Manning wasn't Chelsea as a man; before she was she, he was called Bradley Edward Manning

        1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

          Re: OTT

          "Chelasea Elizabeth Manning wasn't Chelsea as a man; before she was she, he was called Bradley Edward Manning"

          The joke was her surname is Man[n]-ing.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Man[n]-ing @Brewster's Angle Grinder

            No joke there... maybe if she was called Womanning...

    6. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: OTT

      Reality Winner, don't people have normal names these days?!

      I, for one thing, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfjupwQVtx0>think it's a winner</a>.

      I'll go and hide now :)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: OTT

        "I, for one thing, think it's a winner."

        FTFY

        I am surprised that the comment validation didn't reject that typo of a missing closing quote.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: OTT

          I am surprised that the comment validation didn't reject that typo of a missing closing quote.

          Yes, that's one of the disadvantages of not getting a refresh past post so you can see the actual post. Sorry about that.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: OTT

            "Yes, that's one of the disadvantages of not getting a refresh past post so you can see the actual post."

            Whenever I use HTML in a comment I always use the "preview" option to check it will render as expected. Unlike most typos - HTML errors stand out like a sore thumb.

    7. Stevie

      Re: don't people have normal names these days?!

      I know a chap who for reasons best known to himself had his name changed from something fairly prosaic to the handle he used on various forums.

      His handle?

      Anon.

      I'm not making that up.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: don't people have normal names these days?!

        "His handle? Anon."

        Did he go after the royalties on that large body of writings and music to which he could now lay claim?

        A friend has always hated her given first name and called herself by an abbreviation of it. For her 65th birthday she treated herself to a formal deed poll name change. She was delighted when she had a new driving licence and passport that would no longer need any explanations to officials.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: OTT

      however, she did enable a classi line on Stephen Colbert - "the Trump administration really is at war with Reality" ......

  7. Potemkine Silver badge

    Voting machines are a bad idea

    and had always been.

    It's much harder to hack a ballot paper.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

      **cough** ... postal votes ... **cough**

      1. Potemkine Silver badge

        Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

        postal votes

        ... shouldn't be allowed either! If somebody is not present to vote but want to, then there should be Proxy voting organized.

    2. James Anderson

      Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

      Ever heard of ballot box stuffing?

      Either you get many of your supporters to slip more than one paper into the box.

      Or you just get your friendly election official to stuff an extra 1000 or so

      papers into the box.

      Especially fun if your vote exceeds the number of voters -- you really show the suckers who's boss.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

        "Ever heard of ballot box stuffing?"

        There's that old joke - "Vote early - vote often".

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

        did some mention dodgy ballots? can i help?

        hello from the London Borough of Tower Hamlets

    3. tiggity Silver badge

      Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

      Especially when you use a permanent ink pen instead of the supplied pencil

    4. Stevie

      Re: Voting machines are a bad idea

      Dangling Chad is also a terrible name.

  8. Matt Bryant Silver badge

    Liberals - read, try to understand.

    "....We do not believe there was any interference in actual voting machines or the final tally,” senator Warner said, adding “I do not believe they got into changing actual voting outcomes....."

    Yup, even the Dems are finally starting to backpedal on Shrillary's silly claims that "Putin stole my election".

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Liberals - read, try to understand.

      hey, dickshit: the last one to claim there was electoral fraud was your locker-room buddy, Donald who claimed "millions" of votes were fraudulent.

      The investigations into collusion are, as always, about money and influence: Trump's mate Flynn was on the payroll of the Russians and the Turks and broke the Logan Law.

      1. fajensen
        IT Angle

        Re: Liberals - read, try to understand.

        Why not? Everybody's sticky fingers are in the till, probably the fraud balances out more or less.

        A serious research paper I read discussing the various vulnerability of the US electronic voting machines and the aggregation of votes into data centers controlled by private contractors did state in the summary that: "... election fraud is not so much a possibility, as it is an American tradition ... ".

        Maybe I got it here: http://blackboxvoting.org

    2. Hollerithevo

      Re: Liberals - read, try to understand.

      It was Trump saying his votes were somehow being subverted, and that Clinton's votes were false or engineered. Obama flagged up that Russian attempts to involve themselves had been detected. Trump decried that then and denies that now. Clinton, when it really can't matter any more, would like to know if her loss was due to Russian interference. I would like to know if I were her. I would like Trump to want to know, too, because no honorable person wants to win through fraudulence.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Liberals - read, try to understand.

        I would like Trump to want to know, too, because no honorable person wants to win through fraud(ulence).

        It appears that subconsciously you already seem to know why Trump isn't interested :)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Liberals - read, try to understand.

          "It appears that subconsciously you already seem to know why Trump isn't interested :)"

          yes, but that's filed under "illiberals, try to read, understand"

    3. Stevie

      Re: Liberals - read, try to understand.

      Your keyboard is sticking again Matt. You mis-spelled "Hillary".

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    wierd

    So, reality is classified.. Why is info under lock and key that US citizens and the world really should know? And Trump went and dissed the host nation of the largest US military base in the middle east..

    Ok, wtf is Really going on?

  10. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

    A trick that 1984 didn't foresee

    CNN reported suspected Russian fake news plants precipitated the crisis that has seen several Arab states impose sanctions on Qatar.

    Yup, blame all of Eurasia's unforessen events on "fake news" that made it past goodthink control, planted by those wiley Eastasians.

    WHY DOESN'T BIG BROTHER DO SOMETHING?

    I haven't been following this stupidity much because it has been well-known that Qatar likes to transfer money to Sunni Wahabbis and Takfiris of the most flamboyant colour for about 2 decades now. What makes it ridiculous is that Qatar is being accused of supporting Shia Iran. I mean, what the actual f... Is a new media bubble is being created for a little Riyad-supported takeover? I mean, it worked in Yemen, right?

    1. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: A trick that 1984 didn't foresee

      The Qataris have been proposing a less hardline against Iran. Arab unity? Yeah, heard about it but yet to see it.

    2. fajensen
      Facepalm

      Re: A trick that 1984 didn't foresee

      Yup, blame all of Eurasia's unforeseen events on "fake news" that made it past goodthink control, planted by those wiley Eastasians.

      CNN is so retarded these days, they should *really* do something about getting that lead out of the drinking water, the projection is telling: CNN obviously believes (and that "we" would also believe) that just because something appears in a news media, a country will react on it all the way up to blockade and war, without even getting the red phone out, call the government which the offending news is about and like check, what is what and what do we do about it.

      What actually happened is probably that someone with Donald Trump told the Saudis to let up on the terrorism now, Or Else - maybe they wouldn't get those 300 Billion USD worth of weapons, maybe worse could happen. In any case ISIS failed at "regime changing Syria", which must have pissed off the CIA and now they need to take it out on someone.

      So the Saudi goes off and kicks their poodle, which they of course used for running the logistics side of jihadist terrorism - "Bad, baad terrorist-sponsor you! Now we must punish you to prove we were never friends nor allies!!"

      PS:

      Since those Russian L33T HaX0rs can do Anything and Everything, we should just hand over running the world to them, we would have protein folding, flying cars and sex-bots that cook and clean in like 6 months or so. Guaranteed!

  11. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    "Pan Arabic Islam" always sounds like a good idea to the people of the Middle East.

    Until their leaders get round the table.

    Then Sunnis remember they don't like Shi's very much and vice versa.

    And then the border disputes start coming out.

    And who dumped their oil to raise a bit of fast cash, which dropped the price for everyone.

    And pretty soon BAU resumes.

    "Arab Brotherhood?" We've heard of it. But the secret police usually manages to nip them in the bud.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Pan Arabic Islam" always sounds like a good idea to the people of the Middle East.

      "Then Sunnis remember they don't like Shi's very much and vice versa."

      ...and neither like the Sufis.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: "Pan Arabic Islam" always sounds like a good idea to the people of the Middle East.

        .... and someone remembers Iran isn't an Arab country ..

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Pan Arabic Islam" always sounds like a good idea to the people of the Middle East.

      "And then the border disputes start coming out."

      That was inevitable. The Sykes-Picot Agreement carved up the Ottoman Empire such that any traditional tribal boundaries were often ignored. They then compounded that by appointing minority tribe rulers in the new countries so created.

      The Ottoman Empire existed for several centuries - but was always having problems with its internal fracture lines.

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Daesh are claiming the responsibility for terrorist attacks in Tehran today. The Middle East has been a tangle of tribal conflicts for several hundred years. Even the Ottoman Empire had fracture lines along tribal/religious differences - as still being played out in Turkey today.

    1. Hollerithevo

      Unlike Europe the Far East, the Americas?

      'Tribal' if it's them, 'regional' or 'cultural' units if it's us.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Unlike Europe the Far East, the Americas?

        "'Tribal' if it's them, 'regional' or 'cultural' units if it's us."

        It is tribal everywhere - an intrinsic trait that makes humans hierarchical social animals.

        The difference is the degree to which belonging to a particular group forms the core of someone's identity. The more homogenous the group is over many generations - then the more rigid the cultural tribal boundaries. In England particularly - the Industrial Revolution produced towns that were a melting pot of different rural regional differences.

        It has been said that it takes at least three generations of forced integration to remove original tribal boundaries within a mixed society. Yugoslavia fell apart well short of that threshold after Tito died. Ditto Iraq after Hussein.

  13. ecofeco Silver badge
    Mushroom

    No doubt

    No doubt at all.

    Actions at this level are not some "oopsie"

  14. Chairman of the Bored

    Voter fraud?

    This generation of snowflakes has no appreciation for classic voter fraud techniques. Fancy schamncy registration databases?? Who needs em!

    When I was a kid the deacons of the local AME church - a tool of the Democrat leadership machine - would take their white church vans around and pick up the homeless guys and whatever else was sitting around. Gave em booze, ballots, and paper name tags. Load 'em up, drive 'em around, and "vote em"! I think but dont know that the drivers were being paid by the head. Vote the whole freakin' day. Win win for everyone.

    THAT is how you do proper fraud. Not this spearfishing BS. Kids these days... get off my lawn!

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Voter fraud?

      When I was a kid the deacons of the local AME church - a tool of the Democrat leadership machine - would take their white church vans around and pick up the homeless guys and whatever else was sitting around. Gave em booze, ballots, and paper name tags. Load 'em up, drive 'em around, and "vote em"! I think but dont know that the drivers were being paid by the head.

      So, your concept of "voter fraud" basically encompasses "helping people vote?"

      That would mean early voting is "voter fraud" also.

      1. Chairman of the Bored

        Re: Voter fraud?

        You misunderstood, or I just didnt explain clearly... what I learned living in a hell hole of an rust belt city is how to do ballot stuffing. Providing fake IDs... plying guys with so much booze that by the end of the day they would attest to ANYTHING... in the district where I came of age the dead were never removed from the rolls; heck we probably had more 'registered voters' than population in the district once the population collapsed.

        And we routinely hit 80-90pct or sometimes more participation - against a national norm in the mid to high 30pct range.

        I believe in access to voting. I dont believe in organized crime and racketeering.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Voter fraud?

      In the UK it used to be the case that election candidates would give voters copious amounts of beer and food. IIRC Dickens's "Pickwick Papers" illustrates this.

      Nowadays it is illegal to do that. In the current election the artist Banksy had offered a print of an art work to anyone voting in a particular way. He has now withdrawn the offer after being reminded it is illegal.

      It used to be that political parties had "tellers" standing outside polling stations to track which of their putative supporters had not yet voted. They were instructed that they could only speak to a voter as they left the station. Otherwise the policeman on duty could interpret it as an attempt to influence a vote.

      Nowadays it has become much slacker. There isn't usually a policeman on duty - and any tellers often want to know your details before you go in. Judging by the news videos - in some areas there is now almost unchecked intimidation outside polling stations.

      1. Chairman of the Bored

        Re: Voter fraud?l

        Thanks; interesting to know how it works in that side of the pond. Sounds entertaining to say the least! Im no longer living in the inner city so do not know conditions there firsthand. Second hand info suggests nothing has changed.

        In the bedroom county I'm currently living in, campaigns can - with annoying levels of aggression - attempt to pass literature and sample ballots to you as you approach the polling station. They are forbidden to do so any closer than 200' from the entrance. Poll officials are pretty scrupulous about enforcing the safe zone, and our local Sherrif's deputies occasionally put on a show of force to make sure everyone keeps their act together. These boys really love showing off the uniforms and small arms...

        Electronic devices other than blind/deaf assistive technology is forbidden for both voters and officials alike. Ive been a volunteer official for some years and have been reasonably impressed by the professionalism of other polling officials. Nobody has ever tried to influence or coerce me. I've never had reason to question anyone else's actions

        On the negative side: we don't check IDs - its against local ordinances to do so. Physical control of machines is OK but not great. Physical control of the laptops and hardcopy voter rolls is bad to awful. IT controls? No comment.

        Bottom line: if someone wanted to add some people it could very well be done. Not on my watch as my precinct is very small and we basically know everyone ... but mischief is possible elsewhere. Note that does not imply actual existence of fraud, just the potential

  15. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

    I like the smell of pliant-media-constructions in the morning

    Hey Intercept, Something Is Very Wrong With Reality Winner and the NSA Leak

  16. Tom Paine
    Go

    Qatar

    The crisis is significant because Qatar hosts the USA's most significant middle-east air base,

    (1) Qatar hosts the US FIfth Fleet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Fifth_Fleet

    (2) the crisis over Qatar is significant for a lot more reasons than that. The GCC states have behaved as a single bloc for many decades; a FSB-triggered breakdown in trust and cooperation gives the Middle East pot another vigorous stir.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Qatar

      a FSB-triggered breakdown in trust and cooperation gives the Middle East pot another vigorous stir.

      On the other hand, the whole thing might turn out to be of similar significance that my cousins getting loaded at a family thing, then discussing politics, then almost getting to blows over it, and then on the next occasion the pattern repeats making the Big Family Crisis more like A Tradition.

  17. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    Personally I'm sure Dobby will support the D

    The way a rope supports a man on the gallows.

    With much the same goal.

  18. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Unhappy

    "a FSB-triggered breakdown in trust and cooperation gives the Middle East "

    But if anyone should have access to people who know if it's true or false that would seem to be the President of the United States.

  19. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What is so difficult to understand

    about the idea: if you leak government secrets, you will go to gaol.

    Let's see: Pte Manning? Julius and Ethel Rosenburg? The tyrants get a little peeved if you keep doing this to them.

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