Gay Dutch vultures become dads A pair of gay Dutch vultures in a long-term relationship have become parents. Job van Tol, a keeper at the Artis Royal Zoo in Amsterdam, told the BBC that the griffon vultures are "a very tight couple" and are doing a good job raising their hatchling. He said: "We have had them for some years. They always build a nest …
One to use when people say homosexuality is "unnatural". I have no illusions that that will change their minds, it is just fun to see their reaction when you politely undermine their "arguments" (term used without prejudice). I have frequently observed a most guppy-like opening and closing of the mouth without any sound emanating.
This whole 'wearing clothes' and 'cooking food' business is more unnatural than being gay, but you don't see people getting worked up about it.
Mind you, now I say that, some people spend huge amounts of time, effort and money to get other people to take off their clothes, so perhaps that wasn't a great example.
You can perpetuate a species with only a small proportion of its members carrying out the reproductive task. This enables the rest to more effectively carry out the many other jobs that are important for the survival of the species. Bees do OK despite less than 0.1% of a colony being involved in reproduction.
"Mother Nature insists on perpetuating species using the old fashioned way."
This suggests 2 things:
a) there's probably no "gay gene"
b) it's probably developmental, though a recessive genetic trait (or combination of them) could also be responsible for "gayness"
there was an experiment done with male homosexual sheep some time ago. The scientists discovered that the area of their brains that was responsible for processing testosterone and aromatase [as I recall] was smaller, like that of a female sheep, in the male homosexual sheep. This could have been caused by a number of factors, from a breakdown of the blood barrier in the placenta [exposure to female hormones], to any number of other environmental or even genetic factors.
The point is, these male homosexual sheep literally had "female brains".
something to consider. Of course I don't know if anyone has been cutting up human brains but MRI and PET scans and other means might be interesting studies.
then again when politics and political correctness get involved, nobody can talk about the science and statistics any more. I prefer to "mind my own business" instead, and let people do what they want as long as it's not in my face and/or offensive.
> Still, Mother Nature insists on perpetuating species using the old fashioned way.
And what would the old fashioned way be? For a social species (that is, most of them), perpetuation entails a whole lot more than reproduction.
In the case at hand, even though the egg had been fecundated, it would have not resulted in the birth and hopefully upbringing of a new individual were it not for the work of other members of the species apart from those which laid and fertilised the egg.
> Sorry to upset you
You do not upset me. Why would you?
One to use when people say homosexuality is "unnatural".
not 'unnatural' just an aberration. And before you start emotion-bombing with ridiculous/irresponsible "*phobia" labels, look up what the definition of 'aberration' is with respect to statics. It is an anomaly that lies outside of the normal bell curve that has a predictable statistical occurrence, i.e. like the "1.8%" of human populations that are reported to be homosexual vs heterosexual.
seriously, some people just can't avoid the political agenda side of this stuff. I prefer to "mind my own business" when it comes to someone's sexuality. I think everyone ELSE should, too.
Let's assume that this based in actual observations rather than seen through the lens of theory...
Male lions will kill the male offspring of a new female he takes on, and will mate with the female cubs. Does this mean that we should accept that when a woman gets a new boyfriend then it is acceptable for him to kill her sons, and sexually exploit her daughters?
scientifically, humans are animals. we are in the class mammalia, along with organisms like dogs, cats, and bonobos. here is an article that actual proves that the latter:
http://www.livescience.com/44464-bonobo-homosexuality-natural.html
Not natural? think again. bonobos are about as close to the human species as chimps, but they are not the only animals that do this. check this article out as well:
http://www.livescience.com/16138-gay-animals-bonobos-dolphins.html
still doesn't seem natural? maybe it's you that's unnatural then.
Talking of hatching eggs...
Cracking story: French artist to entomb himself in rock for a week, then use body to hatch eggs
Any Vulture staff willing to do the same with a Vulture egg?
There are theories about "gay genes" actually benefitting the female and then the benefit overweighs the "cost" of the odd gay couple who won't breed successfully. A sort of pattern would be Sickle Cell Anaemia where the "gene" confers resistance to Malaria when someone has one copy; but with a copy from both parents the effects are well known.
In gregarious species, not every adult need be directly involved in reproduction. As long as there is at least one heterosexual pair, a colony can be self-sustaining. Non-breeding adults can still perform other useful rôles -- possibly even better, once freed from the distractions of sexual logistics.
This is a romantic notion but scientifically unsound. If you run a simple multi generational simulation on your insensitive and bigoted computer it will show you that this theory of gayness adding some sort of survival benefit to society at large is demonstrably false. Any way you slice the numbers, with the survival rates and fecundity statistics of today, gayness will result in a net DECREASE in the number of offspring compared to no gayness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Gay_uncle_hypothesis
Basically, having a few extra pairs of hands in the family who don't have kids but are able to assist those family members who *do* have kids increases the chances of those kids, and therefore perpetuates the existence of the genes which lead to a small percentage of people not being interested in having kids of their own.
Any species that has the ability to cleanse its own gene pool from harmful genetic mutations or to limit propagation to the most advantageous genes has an evolutionary advantage. Gayness may be a way that Mother Nature weeds out the biological undesirables. If we insist on using animal species to draw parallels with humans (a most intellectually bankrupt activity) then this becomes a fair hypothesis.
Interesting. I did not know that about birds, considering I breed budgies and love birds as a hobby. So today hasn't been a total waste.
It would be awesome to throw that bit of information to those homophobic conservatives it would "contaminate" their little talk with their kids about the "birds and the bees"
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