Drones over London caused aviation chaos, pilots' reports reveal

Inevitable

I guess we will have to wait for a 'heavy' A380 to lose an engine just after takeoff before anyone does anything to stop these idiots.

UFO's, as in aliens. Gov't cover up claiming it was human controlled drones. Pah !!

Drones flying outside the permitted limits (generally 400ft and within visual range for drones under 7kg in weight) is an increasing problem.

Drone in that category is NOT 2m in size as reported by the 777 pilot. 2m in size capable of this altitude is more like 20kg+ - something which costs an arm, a leg and a prosthetic and is operated by a commercial operator which should have been traceable. It was flying illegally by all means as it had its lights disabled according to the report.

Incidents like this has nothing to do with idiots flying their latest toy from Maplin. Professional papparazzi(*), private eyes, etc are more likely suspects. None of them gives a flying f*** about human life and the law anyway and they will continue to fly regardless of regs. They just used to do that with helicopters in the past. They now do it with drones. Everything for that priceless picture of one "starlet" kissing the wrong arse, wife, etc. Whatever pays the wages.

(*)_{That is why it also had its lights disabled by the way}

No matter how you approach it.....

It's difficult to see what can be done.

2m across is a pretty big drone, someone some where will of seen this taking off. However the question really is, what do you do about them - you can't just 'shoot them down' or any such thing as the danger of it landing on someone is real (even if unlikely) and while the loss of said drone would be a deterrent it still wouldn't stop a bad actor from using one to do some real damage.

I honestly don't see the problem with licencing drone users, the same way HAM radio users are licences - with a test if required. While I believe 'some/most' drone manufacturers are saying they have put in (or are going to put in) means to stop the drones going into these such areas, clearly it hasn't happened yet, or isn't working.

"two white, orb shaped objects, with no lights or visible markings

Otherwise known as balloons.

Hmmm...

Unfortunately, since drones have become high profile, they're the first thing that get blamed when pilots see something. Notably UFO sightings have dropped in inverse proportion...

In this case something 2m across, 'balloon like' and at 5,000+ feet is NOT a drone of any sort that you can buy or even build without serious commitment. Any one of those descriptions rules out just about anything available commercially unless you're spending tens of thousands of pounds or work for the military. The largest commercial drones are under half that size, and most would struggle to reach 5,000 due to battery limitations.

So either, it's someone with Bond-villain levels of commitment and finance, or it's not a drone. The most likely suspect is either a hobbyist playing with high altitude baloons, or a stray party prop.

Of course, we could just ban/license/arrest everyone flying a drone - but it has to be pointed out that the commitment to stupidity that would be needed to cause an incident like this would not be stopped by harassing kids playing with toys, or licensed drone operators doing their jobs.

Perhaps a first step would be to put a gimbal mounted high resolution camera on each plane so that unexpected objects can be accurately identified and the threat assessed? Compared with the cost of any of the alternatives, a few hundred quid for a camera would not be so unreasonable.

You can get some pretty big helium party balloons...

Time airliners starting get dashcams. Otherwise, who says they're drones?

At the speed they're travelling the pilot's not going to get much chance to look, especially given that they're (hopefully) concentrating on landing, but a half decent video would clear it up.

I call bs,provide some credible evidence.

It gives pilots/airlines the perfect excuse for covering all sorts of things,I suspect boredom of flight crews are behind many of these "reports" .

Why has nobody been able to show any hard evidence,such as even grainy pics from smartphones ?

Plastic carrier bags and party sized balloons should pose no threat to even small single engine ultra lights,let alone a huge four engine accident waiting to happen like a 380..

As for ordinary "domestic" drones being able to get to 10k altitude,most just don't have the battery capacity to fly the time it would take to get to that kind of height and most would be well out of touch of controller and should go in auto home mode..

How many 2m drones are there in private hands in the UK ?

I would suggest very few,even if there are more,why no sigjting reports from the public on the ground ?

"One described the drone as five feet across, while another said it passed within 50 metres of his airliner."

"A Boeing 777 pilot reported a "large white drone, about 2m across and with four 'prongs'" "

These are not the likes of a typical off the shelf hobbyist machine like the DJI Phantom range, which is about 40 or so centimeters across. I doubt anyone would be able to see a 40cm object half a nautical mile away if you are traveling and 150+MPH.

Yes there are idiots out there flying like twonks, and they deserve to be caught. But a 2m wide drone is not the sort of thing you can buy off the shelf at Maplins, so either the pilots are mistaken, or if it really was a drone, it's most likely commercial or military, not a hobbyist.

A 2m Drone! seems legit.

Whilst not being impossible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIi_vuzmOSY

Its somewhat improbable unless its some ridiculously expensive commercial thing, i just measured my cheerson cx-20 and its about 40cm across.

Given the description of "orb shaped objects" its likely either weather balloons or my childhood favourite of bin bags cut up and taped together to make a balloon envelope and burning hexamine tablets wired into the bottom to make a diy hot air balloon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OjB6ia5v0c , although these days you can just buy environmentally unfriendly sky lanterns off ebay but not that big i think.

Giant drones. Kind of like --

-- Attack of the Killer Wasp Woman.

Not at all suggesting this is the device involved, but: Goliath Quadcopter project. 150 lbs, 30 hp gas engine. Still in development as a hobbyist project.

Looks like the Night Lions quad is one of the bigger off-the-shelf models, 37.5-inch span, 5 lbs.

For a cool $4800 or so you can get a 39-inch recon drone from FoxTech. It flies for an hour and has a white ellipsoidal body with 4 rotors. 1.7 kg body weight and capable of lifting a 3 kg payload,

Can be quite hard to estimate size with no nearby points of reference, but airline pilots would certainly be better at it than I would expect to be myself.

400 foot rule

Applys to over 7kg, below 7kg there is no height limit

Drone identification chart for airline pilots:

http://www.phantompilots.com/attachments/image-jpeg.50959/

EU Rules

The "EU Rules" (actually EASA) being considered appear to have little to do with safety around airports. They are more concerned with clearing the airspace below 400ft so that the military / police / Amazon / etc can fill it with their own drones.

The model aircraft community appear to be collateral damage in all of this, as EASA seem unable to distinguish between an autonomous or semi-autonomous drone, and a model aircraft which can require as much skill to fly as a full-sized aircraft.