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back to article US Air Force terminates Predator drones. Now you will fear the Reaper

After more than 20 years of service, the US Air Force fly boys have today announced that the MQ-1 Predator drone is going to be phased out within a year. Since its first operational deployment in the Balkan wars in the mid-1990s, the Predator has evolved from a pure surveillance drone to an armed flying weapon that has become …

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  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    AI and blockchain and social media will replace these tired pilots!

    Things will get easier, once we have self-navigating killer drones. How do they not have this now? Plug in GPS coordinates, fire, go to Chipotle's!

    "the UK air force has renamed its Reaper squadron as the Protector, to make it sound friendlier."

    HA! How cute. Let's just name all offensive weapons after happy things? Grenades will now be called Bumpy Metal Sweet-potatoes. Bullets can be Friendly Hole Makers. Guns we can call Automatic Uncoordinated Juice Machine. And bombs we can rename Happy Cake Full of Surprises! And everyone wins!

    24 1 Reply
    1. Mage Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Flame

      Re: AI and blockchain and social media will replace these tired pilots!

      AFAIK the V1 & V2 were drones with some sort of analogue computer inertial guidance and the original US Cruise missile is operating as a drone plane after the launch phase, with both GPS and image recognition for map reading.

      It's just incremental developments.

      Now there is live encrypted video and ability to remote control rather than be autonomous, so it begs the question, why so many civilian casualties? These things have had remote control and GPS for years.

      6 1 Reply
      1. anothercynic Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: AI and blockchain and social media will replace these tired pilots!

        Because they don't care anymore. All just ragheads, innit?

        I think the combat fatigue has a lot to do with that attitude... ditto some of the horrific us-vs-them indoctrination.

        0 1 Reply
        1. Anonymous Coward
          Reply Icon
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Because they don't care anymore. All just ragheads, innit?

          I think the statement that it is "all just ragheads" simplifies it to much. all combat/drone pilots are trained to minimalize collateral damage. however sometimes a targets value out weighs the civilian casualties. everyone always puts the blame on the pilot. pilots don't get to choose their own targets. they have to follow their orders. basically fly here, bomb that or them.

          An ethical man knows that it is wrong that he is cheating on his wife, but a moral man does cheat on his wife in the first place. the pilot does not get to choose his orders. the pilot knows it is morally wrong to bomb a wedding with targets mixed with civilians, but must follow the orders of those above him. Ethically you have to look at amount of civilian casualties. Killing 50 civilians to get 1 guy with an AK-47 is wrong. killing 5 civilians to get 1 guy like Osama Bin Laden who is known to be plotting further attacks would be regrettable but could be justified, depending on the circumstances. The bombing of a wedding for a Taliban commander is also a grey area, in one case 90 people were killed. 32 of them civilians. basic math is 90 dead - 32 civilians = 58 terrorists killed. 2:1 collateral damage is not justifiable in my book. However we don't have all the classified data on the target and what he was planning. maybe it was justifiable, unfortunately we will never know as we don't have that data. Unfortunately, you will always have civilian casualties when fighting this kind of a war so long as the enemy continues to mix with the civilian population. this has been going on for as long as there has been war. the Taliban/AQ/ISIS know that the US will be more reluctant bomb them if they are mixed with civilians, and so they use them a human shields. That is the true moral outrage, and shows AQ/ISIS/Terrorists disregard for human life by putting them in danger. You will never see an American or British soldiers using civilians as human shields. AQ/ISIS/Taliban don't care about civilians getting killed, and regrettably sometimes the only way to eliminate their top commanders is sometimes with risk heavy collateral damage, and while regrettable may be justifiable in bigger picture. another good example is WW2 bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is regrettable that the US dropped nukes on them, but in the big picture, it ended the war faster and reduced the amount of casualties that would have occurred had the allies tried to attack the mainland. it was morally wrong, and the suffering of the people unimaginable but it ethically it was justifiable.

          3 1 Reply
      2. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: AI and blockchain and social media will replace these tired pilots!

        "Now there is live encrypted video and ability to remote control rather than be autonomous, so it begs the question, why so many civilian casualties?"

        If you seriously want to know, a good start is Andrew Cockburn's book "Kill Chain".

        https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kill-Chain-Drones-High-Tech-Assassins/dp/1784782696/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488287487&sr=8-1&keywords=kill+chain

        Off the top of my head, I think Madeleine Albright's question may be relevant. "What's the point of having this superb military that you're always talking about if we can't use it?" And what's the point in flying around with Hellfire missiles loaded and ready to fire, if you never get to fire them?

        http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2054293,00.html

        0 0 Reply
    2. Stevie
      Reply Icon

      Re: How Cute

      Turns out the public information slogan "Don't Fear The Reaper" was already in wide use by domestic undesirables.

      There was no other recourse if unacceptable levels of association with longhairs and other pinkoes was to be avoided.

      Also, Air Force brass were tired of shakedown trial assessment summaries reading "needs more cowbell".

      6 0 Reply
      1. Elf
        Reply Icon
        Pint

        Re: How Cute

        The beer's for you because living on the Left Coast of the US, *all* things need more cowbell.

        6 0 Reply
        1. Stevie
          Reply Icon

          Re: living on the Left Coast

          Alanis Morissette says SNL is written in and broadcast from the Left Coast's biggest city ...

          1 0 Reply
          1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
            Reply Icon

            Re: living on the Left Coast

            What's the difference betweel life and a SNL sketch?

            Life doesn't go on forever...

            (I think Eric Idle said that, but I can't be asked to verify that right now.)

            4 0 Reply
            1. A K Stiles
              Reply Icon
              Joke

              Re: living on the Left Coast

              How about now? Can you verify it now?

              6 0 Reply
    3. Frumious Bandersnatch
      Reply Icon

      Re: AI and blockchain and social media will replace these tired pilots!

      > And bombs we can rename Happy Cake Full of Surprises!

      Or just call them "bombes", which are pretty much as you describe.

      1 0 Reply
    4. kurios
      Reply Icon

      Re: AI and blockchain and social media will replace these tired pilots!

      We've been there/done that already. Grenades used to be called "pineapples". No word on how they went with pizza.

      0 0 Reply
  2. Mage Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    Well

    When are they appearing in the International Criminal Court for Extra-Judicial Executions? Deployment of drones in countries they are not at war with and also against non-military targets?

    Yes I know terrorists put missile launchers in schools and hospitals.

    12 3 Reply
    1. Mark 85
      Reply Icon

      Re: Well

      When are they appearing in the International Criminal Court for Extra-Judicial Executions?

      Never.

      Deployment of drones in countries they are not at war with and also against non-military targets?

      The simple answer is Humans.

      As long as there's humans and warfare, there will be mistakes. Hopefully, those incidents of non-military targets getting hit are on the decline as the pilots, etc. get some experience. The same goes for having troops in combat and aircraft over the battlefield. War is hell and very confusing as well as stressful. Been there, seen these things go to hell in a handbasket.

      6 2 Reply
      1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken
        Reply Icon

        Re: Well

        There are mistakes, and then there's a "who cares, they're just ragheads in a far-away place anyway" mentality.

        7 4 Reply
        1. Version 1.0 Silver badge
          Reply Icon

          Re: Well

          "ragheads in a far-away place anyway" - that would be Kansas?

          2 2 Reply
    2. anothercynic Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      Re: Well

      They won't appear at the ICJ because a) the US doesn't ever intend to sign up to it (for obvious reasons), and b) the US (or any of its 'special friends') will never sign off on an extradition warrant to have said perpetrators appear in front of the ICJ.

      Obviously...

      1 0 Reply
  3. Robert Moore
    Mushroom

    Don't fear the Reaper.

    4 1 Reply
  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Surplus

    So, when will the Predators start showing up on the surplus market? Just think of all of those civilians and militias who will be able to afford their own close air support!

    5 0 Reply
    1. Mark 85
      Reply Icon

      Re: Surplus

      Available soon... re-read the second to last paragraph. Coming to a police department near you.

      5 0 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Surplus

      Actually, the engine the Predators use (Rotax 914) is also used in a number of small homebuilt aircraft - particularly the light sport stuff. I imagine there would be quite a market for surplus engines if they were priced right and had the maintenance logs and such.

      2 0 Reply
      1. imanidiot Silver badge
        Reply Icon

        Re: Surplus

        Compared to the average GA light aicraft most of these engines have MASSIVE hours on them. Probably more than enough to make the entirely uninteresting for re-use. There WILL probably be some low hour ones remaining that might turn up in surplus at some point, but I doubt it'll be large amounts. And they'll probably get snatched up by some surplus dealer for a bargain and a greased palm only to be sold on for a massive markup. That's my experience from what I've seen happening in surplus sales anyway.

        2 0 Reply
    3. Eddy Ito
      Reply Icon
      Devil

      Re: Surplus

      Forget close air support. I want a fleet so I can attach pods to carry ~100 kg cargo or lighter passengers around the city. I'll crush Uber and Lyft especially if one of the passengers I drop off happens to land on their cars.

      11 1 Reply
      1. Triggerfish
        Reply Icon

        Re: Surplus

        Amazons new drone fleet?

        1 0 Reply
  5. Anonymous Coward
    Mushroom

    WAR! ... Never been so much fun ..!

    5 0 Reply
  6. Sebastian A

    Wow, a Cannon Fodder reference. I'm showing my age here (and so is Iain).

    6 0 Reply
    1. phuzz Silver badge
      Reply Icon

      And somehow managing to make it even more bleak than the original tune.

      2 0 Reply
  7. Number6

    I'll keep an eye out on Ebay for one.

    2 0 Reply
  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How much ped could a pedant dant if a pedant could dant ped?*

    "Right now the plan is to stop flying the MQ-1 in 2018...As part of that, we are going to stop flying the MQ-1 completely by July 1, 2017."

    I'm not sure how pedantic to be here... On the one hand, if they stop flying the Predators by July, then they will have stopped by 2018, but he does say that they'll stop flying them "IN" 2018, so if they stop this year, then they won't be able to stop flying them next year...

    I should probably just chalk it up to a nervous guy that doesn't have to talk to the press much.

    *Apologies to the woodchucks.

    7 0 Reply
    1. Dazed and Confused
      Reply Icon

      Re: How much ped could a pedant dant if a pedant could dant ped?*

      > I should probably just chalk it up to a nervous guy that doesn't have to talk to the press much.

      Given current incumbent's view of the press the nervous guys will probably just be allowed to turn up to these conferences in his Reaper soon.

      3 1 Reply
    2. Anonymous Coward
      Reply Icon
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: How much ped could a pedant dant if a pedant could dant ped?*

      {have an upvote for the title, and the apology to woodchucks, Chuck!)

      1 0 Reply
      1. Robert Helpmann??
        Reply Icon
        Childcatcher

        Re: How much ped could a pedant dant if a pedant could dant ped?*

        Think you could work with the "pleasant mother pheasant plucker" tongue twister next time? I'll give you two up-votes for that!

        1 0 Reply
  9. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    "the two killing machines cost about the same to fly – figures released in 2013 put the cost per hour of Predator flights at $3,679, compared to $4,762 for the Reaper."

    So an increase of 29.4% is about the same? I guess I'm starting to learn how military procurement works after all.

    8 0 Reply
    1. lglethal Silver badge
      Reply Icon
      Go

      You missed the part where a manned aircraft costs US$68k and a stealth bomber nearly $170k.

      So yeah $900 per hour extra in comparison to those is pretty much a rounding error...

      1 3 Reply
      1. Anonymous Coward
        Reply Icon
        Anonymous Coward

        You just know how this is going to go

        The Predator is a bit heavier and has a similar speed to a WW1 Sopwith Camel that carried 4 small bombs for ground attack. Subsequent aircraft were heavier, and faster, and more expensive, and had a greater weapons payload, and now we have the F35. The Reaper is heavier, and faster, and more expensive, and has a greater weapons payload than the Predator...

        Unfortunately it's far easier to add stuff and increase weight (and cost) than to follow William Bushnell Stout's maxim.

        1 0 Reply
      2. Scroticus Canis
        Reply Icon
        Holmes

        "manned aircraft costs US$68k and a stealth bomber nearly $170k"

        A mere bagatelle compared to the hourly cost of an F35 (if the ever get one flying long enough to work it out - oh and a calculator with a 12 digit display to show the answer).

        1 0 Reply
  10. Neil Barnes Silver badge

    Reassure me

    For the civilian version, they *will* have taken an angle grinder to the weapons attachments, right?

    3 0 Reply
    1. A K Stiles
      Reply Icon
      Coat

      Re: Reassure me

      "You, speeding in the black Audi, pull over to the side of the road and await ground patrol! You have 10 seconds to comply..."

      I was going to use the joke icon, but I'm not convinced it is just a joke these days!

      9 0 Reply
      1. Bandikoto
        Reply Icon
        Trollface

        Re: Reassure me

        You must have missed this article about the California Highway Patrol's drone squad. Ok, it was a guerrilla art project that caused a wee bit of news coverage when it appeared along the highway.

        1 0 Reply
    2. BernardL
      Reply Icon

      Re: Reassure me

      Not necessarily. Leaving the attachment points on will allow the cops to mount mission specific equipment like IMSI catchers, targeting pods, or any of those other creepy things they're having wet dreams about.

      Speeding ticket dispensers are still in development. Probably.

      2 0 Reply
  11. toffer99

    More powerful

    So the new drone, instead of just one wedding party, can wipe out 2 wedding parties and a hospital at once. I expect Trump will want to use them when he declares war on Iran, probably only months from now.

    3 3 Reply
    1. El_Fev
      Reply Icon

      Re: More powerful

      Yeah yeah sure wedding parties :S

      0 0 Reply
  12. Chemical Bob
    WTF?

    SkyGuardian?

    Who signed off on *that* name? It's like something out of an old Buck Rogers serial or a lame movie with Gwyneth Paltrow - "SkyGuardian and the World of Tomorrow".

    0 0 Reply
  13. noddybollock
    Coat

    Wrong name surly ?

    Given the repeated and unwanted appearance at wedding parties / funerals etc, shouldn’t they be called Gate crashers ?

    ---> looking for invite icon..

    0 0 Reply

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