back to article IBM to UK staff: Get ready for another game of musical chairs

IBM is about to fling another bunch of Technical Services Support staffers down the redundancy chute, internal documents leaked to The Register reveal. In a letter to permanent employees in UK and Ireland, Paul Simmonds, director of TSS, part of Global Technology Services, confirmed the formation of yet another Employee …

  1. Warm Braw

    Change, the only constant

    To be fair to IBM (albeit reluctantly), the fact that that a technology business whose origins go back to 1885 is still a going concern is entirely dependent on constant change: look at the many corpses of once-mighty but short-lived computer companies. If they hadn't changed, they'd still be selling time clocks, mechanical scales and bacon slicers. The way they go about it, however...

    1. gv

      Re: Change, the only constant

      Death by a thousand cuts.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        "Death by a thousand cuts"

        As an ex-IBM employee, I can confirm that the comment is missing a significant N ...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: "Death by a thousand cuts"

          As an employee of a customer of blue, I concur.

          Shame really. I knew some decent people there a decade ago. Then came Monday and here we are today.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Change, the only constant

      It does seem like GTS is in decline. It is just too competitive of a market with little differentiation. Basically selling IT infrastructure skills. Anyone can do that. The real rise of GTS was moving to India and outsourcing IT. That card has been played. There are a ton of India IT outsourcers now. The model was never really worked as advertised either.

      Many of their business, such as site and facility services (building data centers), are just outdated. Not many data centers being built in the cloud world or, rather, a few extremely large data centers are being built and Google, Amazon, etc have the skills in house.

    3. Bob Vistakin
      Megaphone

      Re: Change, the only constant

      There is one thing that stays the same with IBM though, as I first encountered many moons ago whilst holding my nose having been forced to deal with them at BT - they are just the same as all the others offering the same services, but charge 10x more. Backhanders and government contracts (there's no difference) at the highest level are all that keeps them going, so it sounds like the people involved are finally wising up.

  2. Len Goddard

    Consultation?

    Is that like the consultation on pensions a few years back where they told the staff what was going to happen at the beginning of the "consultation" period?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Consultation?

      Yep. To quote an employee rep a few years ago "it is consultation, not negotiation". In telling people what they are going to do they are deemed to have "consulted" you.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Consultation?

      No. It's like the two Bobs from Office Space. Come and interview for your job and be prompt, or do like Peter did and just show up whenever. The "Peters" of the world are not phased by people in ties shouting about bottoms, and lines, and bottom lines.

      ATH+++

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Cut staff levels to zero for maximum profit with no costs!!

    Of course, there will be no-one to do any work, but that's how spreadsheet-monkey-managers think cost and profit are maintained, by cutting the people who do any real work.

    Start by cutting the hundreds of millions of $$ from the Execs salary and bonus first, then people might take this 'efficiency saving' plan as being fair.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Cut staff levels to zero for maximum profit with no costs!!

      Imagine how much time and money IBM would save if instead of having new "consultation" processes every few months, they simply had a continuous rolling programme of "consultation"? The PHBs could even appoint one of their own as permanent VP of Consultations, Rightsizing, Transformation, and Optimisation, complete with a department of do-nothings to administer this important "value lever" that IBM's makeweight board feel the need to tug on with some regularity.

  4. Daedalus

    They still don't get it.

    When you hire somebody who is good at their job, they are there and they stay there and you know them and they do the work.

    When you outsource to somebody else, who might outsource to somebody even elser, the person you get at first might be good, and then that person will move on and be replaced by somebody else who might be not as good, who might in fact be a total plonker but you are still paying.

    But of course if you're an exec and you improve the financial bottom line, you get your promotion and move out of the danger zone before the system is compromised by the plonkers you hired to cut expenses. Somebody else gets to pick up the pieces.

  5. ma1010
    Alert

    Another dying company

    Obviously, if you are unfortunate enough to work at IBM, it's time to look for another job. Another corporation killed by mismanagement.

    I figure in a couple of years IBM will start filing lots of patent troll lawsuits which is a sure sign of a corporation going down the drain.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Another dying company

      That's a good call. Another sign is the lack of technological breakthroughs from them. Gone are the days of being out in front in that area. This is a company that worshiped at the alter of Wall Street, gave praise to their divisions of crafty salespeople, and lost. Assemble any number of these so-called brilliant salespersons and they could never deliver a Quantum Computer. Not one. Sales and marketing and execs with fancy ties are not going to right this sinking, stinking, garbage barge.

      1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

        Re: Another dying company

        I don't think that's quite fair, while I have utter disdain for IBM, having worked for them, they do consistently innovate and get get granted patents, filing over 8,000 last year, putting them towards the top of the leaderboard. They've made significant improvements to Scanning Tunneling Microscopes, and it was Benoit Mandelbrot, while working for IBM that gave us lots of pretty pictures to look at, etc.

  6. fidodogbreath

    So, which is it?

    IBM is about to fling another bunch of Technical Services Support staffers down the redundancy chute [...] In a letter to permanent employees...

    Never mind; we all know there's no such thing as a permanent employee, unless you're talking about the public sector.

    1. keithpeter Silver badge
      Windows

      Re: So, which is it?

      "unless you're talking about the public sector."

      What percentage of your tax do you want me spending on redundancy payments and recruitment charges?

      As a planning benchmark, annual churn is around 9% in UK public sector, so around 45000 'new' teachers and roughly 85000 'new' nurses per year (I suspect that 'new' may include return after family break to some extent). From my PHB days (decade ago) it cost around £1400 to advertise/interview/recruit and very occasionally another £5000 or so supply/agency staff costs, the latter payable when a teacher left suddenly.

      We currently have a severe shortage of teachers (many leaving profession a year or two after completing training due to workload), and a significant drop in nurses in training (loss of bursary), so actual churn currently much higher than planned.

      IBM employees are caught up in a large corporation changing its business model and they have my sympathy but corporations can do that. Can't send children home too often and can't close (too many) hospitals before people start voting you out mate.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So, which is it?

      AC because the school I work for is currently making redundancies for teaching staff after having already decimated the support staff roles and reduced the technical team from 3 to me.

      Public sector jobs aren't any more safe than private sector.

  7. Just An Engineer

    Ask Watson

    I wonder if they have ever asked Watson to drill down into their "BIG data" and find a new business model that works. Unlike the last 8 or 10.

    I think they know better then to try that, I can see it now.

    Ginni: Hello Watson.

    Watson: Hello Boss.

    Ginni: Watson, Can you root around in our BIG data and see if there is anything salvageable and then develop a business plan to match?

    Watson: Of course Watson Can.

    Ginni: How long will this take?

    Watson estimates the time till Hell Freezes Over to be 1.6 million years.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    As an ex-IBMer of 16 years, one thing I know is that any current IBMer who hasn't had a good solid think about when they will be let go and at least has some idea of what they'll do about it is a fool. The chances are just too high to let it come as a surprise.

    But in a business where they expect 80% of their staff to be vastly remote from the customer (i.e. India) to not permit technological solutions to allow remote work is astonishing. Only telecommuting will set us free from big city housing prices. It's been promised for 50 years yet companies like IBM insist on collocation. If sitting together in a big room is so damn important why was my manager (whom I never met) based in a city 1,000 kilometers away? Some exec watched something on Discovery channel about communications and kapow, global policy, I suspect. Still! I guess 14 levels of management can't be wrong.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      "The chances are just too high to let it come as a surprise."

      Former IBMer here. Yes, that is exactly why I left. My job was pretty good for the large part, but you never felt comfortable that your job was secure. I didn't really have any burning desire to leave except that I didn't want to get caught up in a layoff. I imagine many IBMers, some of which IBM would probably like to retain, leave for the same reason.

  9. JOKM

    Not surprised

    IBM are living off past reputation, and the dying breed of CTO's who know more about golf than tech. To coin a phrase they have become all talk and no action.

    I still shudder when I hear the words websphere.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Not surprised

      Or worse... deep breath.. brace myself... squint and reach for medication.......... Lotus Notes

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Unhappy

    Poor IBM

    Once a great innovator, even if it tried to stangle client-server computing, and minicomputers before that.

    Now it's Wipro or Tata--with a higher-cost labor base. And of course they are trying to change that via all these "consultations". I bet there are not too many of those actions going on in India/China/Phillipines.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Poor IBM

      I think they are actually still primarily a mainframe company.

      1. Guus Leeuw

        Re: Poor IBM

        Dear sir,

        Well called.

        Shame that senor management does not want it to be that easy though. They rather get rid of their diamond and replace it with something that will never work in the same way (the cloud).

        I've said it before: IBM had computing down to a T in the 60s; the rest of the industry is still trying to do what the mainframe did effortlessly half a century ago.

        Shame really.

        Regards,

        Guus

      2. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

        Re: Poor IBM

        Since they sold PC and Server production to Lenovo, I think that's what they are left with, hardware wise. This might not be such a bad move though. We're looking at hyperconverged solutions, and while our requirements are not that demanding, and a hyperconverged solution suiting our needs nowhere near the footprint of say an IBM Z13, I can see why people would still buy a Mainframe, and use it to host a virtual environment.

  11. FozzyBear
    Devil

    Is anyone really surprised nowadays

    As previous comments have noted the top execs are really only interested in making their annual bonuses and jumping ship before it all turns to custard.

    Until a mind shift is made doing away with the annual bonus scheme this will continue. If execs want to be paid millions to manage then tie the bastards into a bonus scheme that can't be manipulated by fiddling figures on a spreadhseet

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    What's this years business plan?

    So last year the plan was for 80% outsourced in 2017, what is the plan to cut costs next year raise it to 90% these plans only have one direction.

    Also the no remote workers thing is in more than just the US.

    Reality is Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Google etc. the big guys don't use IBM. IBM can't move at their speed and has not been at the front of tech for years.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What's this years business plan?

      It is going to be a problem for all of the older tech companies. The companies you mentioned don't use any IBM, Oracle, Microsoft, EMC, Cisco in their data centers. I don't think Google has a lick of proprietary software, aside from stuff they wrote themselves, in their data centers. Every bank, CPG, retail company wants to operate like Google and the cloud players, so they will probably move in that direction as well.

  13. GBNE

    Neverending

    I did 15 years with IBM, at least half of that with the axe hanging over me. Very glad to be out of there, despite really learning my trade there, and working with some amazing engineers.

    Watching really great colleagues disappearing in redundancy waves was really dispiriting - but when I started in the late 90's it was a great place to work.

  14. streaky

    Unions..

    IBM does not recognise any union in the UK

    Isn't this what CAC is for?

    Here's a multinational getting UK government contracts that apparently doesn't recognise UK employment law? And nobody in their employ seemingly thought to do anything about that?

  15. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well, the board need to keep topping up their meagre salaries somehow

    http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/insiderTrading?symbol=IBM

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Less than 100 people affected.

    The fact that the consultation is only 30 days means that the effected number of employees is between 20 and 99 (source: https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation). As a current IBMer (hence AC) I feel sorry for those who may to lose their jobs however this is really just a small number of people compared to the many thousands who work for IBM in the UK. As IBM changes it's business strategy I unfortunately expect that this will happen on a regular basis. With a bit of luck many of those effected will find roles in the many openings that currently exist in the newer business units. While this is a thoroughly unpleasant process, I have no doubt that IBM would not exist today if they had not at least attempted to change!

    1. GruntyMcPugh Silver badge

      Re: Less than 100 people affected.

      I left two years ago in a larger exercise, and there have been several smaller ones since then. This is just chipping at the block, and we both know there will be another round within a year.

      Meanwhile, top marks for clinging on.

    2. Felonmarmer

      Re: Less than 100 people affected.

      Unfortunately the 99 person threshold is defined by establishment, which has now been defined as a "local business unit" as opposed to the entire company. So as long as there are less than 99 redundan ies per office they only need 30 days.

      See https://www.employmentlawwatch.com/2015/02/articles/employment for details (one of many legal sites that have articles about this).

      When I was last made redundant the previous interpretaion was employed, now it's not so easy to tell.

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