back to article Meet the chap open-sourcing US govt code – Paul, an ex-Microsoft anti-piracy engineer

In the months ahead, Idaho National Laboratory aims to open-source software for analyzing the quality of cow manure. "It runs a whole bunch of scenarios and numbers and determines what is the most profitable use of the manure that comes out of cows," explained Paul Berg, senior research and development software licensing …

  1. Brian Miller

    Go for it!

    It's good to see that someone is getting the ball rolling for government-sponsored open source software. +1 for Paul, he's a very bright guy.

    Really, various agencies should be tasked with producing open source software. Why not? They need the software just as much as world+dog. Not every good programmer out there is a dollar-obsessed mercenary.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Go for it!

      And not only that, the basis for releasing any and all of the government software projects is that "we the people" paid for them and have a right to access, or otherwise observe, these works. No question. We own them. Not the other way around.

      "though not all of it can be released, owing to national security considerations"

      Unfortunate, but it should also be release after the security problems with it have elapsed.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Go for it!

        Usually I see "national security concerns" just used to cover up the fact that the government is either using easily broken security and/or some crap-tastic COTS software. Worked with an agency that spent $120 million for a contractor to build a shitty, unmaintainable and insecure clone of OpenSSH.

        Anonymous since I work in the Federal Government (My mission is to protect people's data -from- Federal-levels of incompetence because I have no loyalty to the current group of corrupt chuckle-fucks that infest DC, especially the current Administration).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Go for it!

          $120 million for a contractor to build a shitty, unmaintainable and insecure clone of OpenSSH.

          That's really daft, when they could have used the shitty, unmaintainable and insecure real OpenSSH for free.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Go for it!

            That's really daft, when they could have used the shitty, unmaintainable and insecure real OpenSSH for free.

            Hookers and Blow goes for Money, last time I checked, not for "Free". Hence the need for those obscene DOD procurement programmes. And the need for not auditing the Pentagon. Maybe Donald Trump could be goaded into action on this? Tap-dancing on a minefield is always fun to see from a safe distance.

          2. John Sanders
            IT Angle

            Re: Go for it!

            >> That's really daft, when they could have used the shitty, unmaintainable and insecure real OpenSSH for free.

            Dude WTF?, explain yourself or piss off.

    2. Charlie Clark Silver badge

      Re: Go for it!

      Really, various agencies should be tasked with producing open source software.

      That sort of implies they should be software maintainers. Maybe not such a great idea. But many places already have processes based around the data ("Open Data") they release and the various APIs they provide.

    3. bombastic bob Silver badge
      FAIL

      Re: Go for it!

      open source for ALL gummint software [that's not a security risk to open source it] would be kinda like 'freedom of information' in a way. So yeah, GOOD idea.

      What's a BAD idea is the REASON why they want to build things out of manure instead of using it for what's been working for the last several thousand years (i.e. farm fertilizer). The whole "carbon emissions" thing disturbs me. We don't need more pseudo-science, open source or otherwise. A failed computer model is a failed computer model, 'garbage in, garbage out' (or in this case, manure), regardless of its open-sourceness.

      "Lipstick on a boar" again.

      1. Hollerithevo

        Re: Go for it!

        Manure has been used as a building material since the dawn of time. Check out wattle and daub, for instance. Manure has the straw, um, pre-mixed.

  2. Crazy Operations Guy

    "owing to national security considerations"

    I hate that excuse more and more each day. Its the government equivalent of 'security purely through obscurity' bullshit that has plagued the technology industries for years...

  3. Crazy Operations Guy

    What license is he going for?

    I sure hope its something permissive like an adaptation of the BSD license. Something short and sweet that doesn't require a goddamn law degree to figure out if you can include it in your product.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: What license is he going for?

      This is either very straightforward or nightmarishly complex. If it's the work of a US government employee, it is completely in the public domain, without even natural copyright protection. There won't be a license because there's nothing to provide a license over.*

      The real challenge is that almost none of this software will have any actual federal employee involvement whatsoever, and the stuff that does will have contractors and suppliers into the mix. They definitely do have valid claims to the copyright, so the licensing decision must involve them and that's where it gets stuck. That's long before you get to the antiquated export controls nonsense.

      *Strictly speaking this means a US government employee can't work with the GPL. Immovable object, unstoppable force etc.

    2. diodesign (Written by Reg staff) Silver badge

      Re: What license is he going for?

      MOOSE is GPL 2.1 and the build system (Civet) is Apache 2.0 - both linked in the article.

      C.

      1. LazLong

        Re: What license is he going for?

        @diodesign

        The article doesn't tell the whole story about licensing of works produced by US gov't workers. The GPL and Apache licenses are only applicable to use by citizens of other countries. All work produced by U.S. government officers or employees is not subject to copyright according to Section 105 of the Copyright Act. Google it.

        I worked at a DOE lab for 11 years doing DevOps before the term was coined supporting code physicists and computer scientists who wrote codes supporting Stockpile Stewardship; so I know a thing or two about software licensing of U.S. gov't-produced codes.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Linux

    Significant legal risks of open-source software

    "Berg .. helped formulate the company's strategy for dealing with open-source software and for ensuring compliance with open-source licensing requirements – a significant legal risk when deep-pocketed Amazon makes an acquisition."

    Aw come on, could you please enumerate any companies currently being sued for using 'open-source' software. Apart from Microsoft extorting android licenses out of hardware makers.

    "The manager of the project, Berg said, really wanted to release MOOSE as open source, but didn't know how to do so"

    It took them18 months to publish their own code under the LGPL?

    "Iran is one of the countries prohibited to receive goods under US export regulation"

    Apart from Boeing selling 80 aircraft to Iran, which require software.

    1. Nick 26

      Re: Significant legal risks of open-source software

      >It took them18 months to publish their own code under the LGPL?

      That depends on whether it was completely in-house project, whether they started with an already existing application and adapted it or whether multiple entities worked on the software from different projects in a collaborative fashion.

      My guess it that the copyright wasn't transferred by the authors when it was being written so they had to do a code audit, find all the authors wherever they are now and ask them to sign a form before they could change the license.

      Another factor was probably the issue (as mentioned in another comment) that anything produced by the US government is automatically public domain. If the government funded part of the development then that might have needed some legal checks to make sure they could actually release under GPL.

    2. Roland6 Silver badge

      Re: Significant legal risks of open-source software

      It took them18 months to publish their own code under the LGPL?

      That's a reasonable investment in a business process, given it is one that others will want to learn from and emulate, perhaps Paul Berg and the Idaho National Laboratory (INL) should apply for a business methods patent - making it as widely applicable as possible and then permit royalty free usage.

    3. toadflakz

      Re: Significant legal risks of open-source software

      "Aw come on, could you please enumerate any companies currently being sued for using 'open-source' software."

      You mean other than Oracle suing Google over Java in Android? ;)

      1. John Sanders
        Facepalm

        Re: Significant legal risks of open-source software

        @toadflakz

        Google created their own implementation of Java not by copying the source but by re-implementing an open standard.

        Oracle is suing Google claiming that if you implement a standard they own, you own them the moneyz because they are Oracle and Larry Ellison's yacht's deck is dirty and needs a new yacht.

        Pandora's box.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Well

    Well SHIT!

    I like it... the government working with businesses to create innovation.

    How novel and progressive.

    Two thumbs UP for our other poster for the descriptive and accurate use of "chuckle-fucks".

  6. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    Cow poo: Sequestering CO2 = good

    Sequestering nitrogen (the split 'N' variety) = bad.

    Sequestering the other 'fertilizer' elements = bad.

    I've not done the math, but there's obviously at least an order of magnitude more bad than good.

    Keyword = obviously.

    Dumb idea.

  7. Mark 85
    Trollface

    Manure as construction material?

    So some buildings will be a non-steaming pile when completed?

    1. hplasm
      Coat

      Re: Manure as construction material?

      "So some buildings will be a non-steaming pile when completed?"

      Excellent- dump a load on the Chernobyl reactor!

    2. Kane
      Coat

      Re: Manure as construction material?

      "We can entrap that carbon dioxide if, for example, we use the manure for building materials, and there are certain types of manure with certain classifications ... that can be used for construction."

      Literally, Shitting Bricks.

      Thank you, thank you, I'm here all evening.

  8. elDog

    So with our new EWC Trump, every hostile nation is EAR99?

    (EWC - little emperor w/o cloth)

    At the rate we're going, we don't have to worry about segregating foreigners into hostile or not. Everyone else is hostile and subject to these "EAR99" regulations.

    Hell, most of the population of the US (and that includes virtually all scientists, rational thinkers, and yes - even El Reg readers) are hostiles. Once we're rounded up and deported the playboys and their playmates can enjoy unfettered access - to what?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: So with our new EWC Trump, every hostile nation is EAR99?

      . Everyone else is hostile ... and therefore may be killed, abducted, detained indefinitely, tortured, have assets seized, spied upon, doxxed, at the leisure of The Glorious American God-Emperor starting all the way back to George Bush II.

      The "It is only wrong when Donald Trump does it"- #IIOWWDTDI - is getting a bit tedious, assuming of course that the above behaviour towards strangers is indeed considered to be uncivilised and wrong in general.

      If Not, well, one may hope that Donald Trump or his successor will apply a good dollop of what Americans believe to be good for everywhere else onto America and they can get to suck it right up and like it - and maybe understand better why "they hate us".

  9. EarthDog

    Speaking of manure

    There's the Purdue Manure Management Planner http://www.purdue.edu/agsoftware/mmp/MmpBlurb.htm

    Just FYI

  10. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Thumb Up

    Interesting it's coming out of the INL

    Idaho is where they tend to build nuclear test reactors (and occasionally blow them up).

    Given US paranoia about "dual use" and "loosing strategic advantage" this is even possible.

    But I'm quite excited it is.

    1. James 51
      Trollface

      Re: Interesting it's coming out of the INL

      Trump has shown that he is incapible of thinking in terms of a strategic advantage. Besides if its goverment code it must the bad code. Just the worst code ever. Sad. The goverment should buy all its code from good people in good American companies that will hire all US peoples and pay all its taxes over to Uncle Sam while spending less money on code cause the American people know what do with their code better than the goverment does.

  11. This post has been deleted by its author

  12. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Excellent...

    So this algorithm is useful for categorising different grades of shit.

    Can we somehow bastardise this into a bloatware scanner?

  13. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    OTOH

    It's not as if other countries haven't had the same problem. Even the UK finally managed to get over itself and get on with it, though I think different bodies have different licences where a simple BSD-inspired Crown Copyright Licence would probably have sufficed.

    Export are a real PITA and restrictions apply to anything cryptographic, one of the reasons why OpenSSH is based in Canada. It's sort of nonsense in an open source world but try telling that the politicians.

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