back to article Li-ion tamers: Boffins build battery with built-in fire extinguisher

Researchers at Stanford University say they have developed a method for building fire-extinguishing materials into standard lithium-ion batteries. The nine researchers behind the paper to be published in the journal Science Advances say that by packing flame-retardant triphenyl phosphate (TPP) into the battery pack behind a …

  1. Voland's right hand Silver badge
    Black Helicopters

    Phopsphoro-organics

    I wonder, does mentally adding some fluorine when seeing a formula of a phosphor-organic compound count as a thought crime... Probably I should stop wondering, I already hear the sound of black helicopters outside.

    On a less humorous note - I frankly have some doubts about "low toxicity" of anything which has phosphorus and organics. Probably, it is because I studied chemistry when we had the VX family as a part of the "toxicology" (freshly renamed from "chemical warfare agents") course. Thankfully, it no longer had the lab part (*).

    (*) You make only one mistake when synthesizing this stuff. It is usually your last

    1. ldm

      Re: Phopsphoro-organics

      You've probably seen this before, but I still find it funnier than I should.

      1. Oengus
        1. Ugotta B. Kiddingme
          Unhappy

          Re: Obligatory XKCD reference

          Unfortunately, the people of Boston, Massachusetts might have a comment or two about "the worst thing that can happen if you misuse a pressure cooker." Granted the original XKCD question specified "in a kitchen" but still...

      2. Gotno iShit Wantno iShit

        Re: Phopsphoro-organics

        Thanks Idm, enjoyed that.

        In the same vein: Ignition!

      3. Vinyl-Junkie

        @Idm

        Thank you for that link; I hadn't seen it before and just spent an entertaining half-hour reading that and several articles linked from it.

    2. Jim Mitchell

      Re: Phopsphoro-organics

      To be fair, the article does say "less toxic", not "low toxicity".

  2. Dwarf

    A couple of side effects

    Slightly tongue in cheek, but here goes ..

    1. Mobile devices will get heavier, thicker

    2. Devices will require their annual servicing to test the extinguisher.

    3. Don't fire extingiushers need to be replaced after a number of years - so built in obsolescence - on safety grounds of course ..

    4. If you phone goes off, then the person sitting next to you will think you are setting off some form of chemical device, so you'll get punched, shot or worse !

    5. Can you really carry pressurised canisters in hand luggage on planes ?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: A couple of side effects

      It's not pressurized, so no need to test it yearly.

      1. annodomini2

        Re: A couple of side effects

        Yet

  3. John Smith 19 Gold badge
    Go

    "Don't fire extingiushers need to be replaced after a number of years "

    Not actually a fire extinguisher.

    More like the special expanding foam fitted behind light fittings in modern buildings that expands to cut off air flow in crawlspaces.

    Not tested but only good for 1 use.

    Sounds like a pretty good idea as power density is (slowly) going up.

    Electrospinning. Is there no end to what this technique can be used for?

  4. Sampler

    Cars

    Wouldn't this be of more value in the huge batteries they're fitting to cars, wouldn't want to be around when one of those goes up (though, to be fair, wouldn't want to be around when a petrol tank went up either).

    1. bombastic bob Silver badge
      Devil

      Re: Cars

      actually, the first thing _I_ thought of was LiPo batteries in aircraft [which a couple of years ago grounded 777's for a bit, as I recall] and electric cars would be the next in line. So yeah.

      "what happens in a car crash" with electric batteries in every exposed area of a car? Hopefully NOT a class D fire, but that happened once already, and I remember reading an El Reg article about it...

      1. JeffyPoooh
        Pint

        Re: Cars

        BBB mentioned "grounded 777" due to battery failures.

        I believe that you might have spelled "787" incorrectly.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Cars

        They do seem like more likely applications. Putting this is in a phone battery will make the battery bigger. If Samsung's product stylists had been willing to make the battery the size their engineers said it should be, they'd never have had the problem in the first place.

    2. Adam 1

      Re: Cars

      > Wouldn't want to be around when a petrol tank went up either

      I agree. The fire would be very hot. (Or were you like most people expecting some form of explosion?)

  5. Your alien overlord - fear me

    But the battery still has to catch fire to burn through the insulating layer before the TPP kicks in. That's still a fire in my books even if it does eventually get put out by itself - assuming there is enough TPP to counteract a raging inferno in my pocket (oh er missus).

    1. JeffyPoooh
      Pint

      "...still a fire in my books..."

      At 35,000 feet, the practicalities are far more important than the nomenclaturism. Specifically, a small and self-extinguishing "fire" is significantly better than mass death. Which makes it all worthwhile.

      1. Alister
        Headmaster

        Re: "...still a fire in my books..."

        nomenclaturism

        Uurgh!

        nomenclature is fine on its own, it doesn't need an "ism"

        1. JeffyPoooh
          Pint

          Re: "...still a fire in my books..."

          You've not seen the expression "Adventures in nomenclaturism"? It was all the rage a few years ago

          Nomenclaturism is referring to the nomenclaturism mindset, not the specific word ("fire" in this case).

          Beside, you can't nitpick, and then omit an uppercase and a period.

          :-)

  6. ukgnome

    erm

    wouldn't it be better to perfect the battery instead of adding bits to it?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: erm

      Pretty much any time you have lots of energy (60% of TNT for same mass, according to somewhere) and it's readily accessible, it's got to be somewhat dangerous. Consider a centrifugal energy storage system: You have a flywheel, and a motor/generator that spins it up and does regenerative braking to extract the power later. So what happens when it's safely and non-chemically charged, but there was a small defect in one of the necessarily high-precision-machined bearings which subsequently ate itself? It goes titsup really really fast, and then titsleft, and then titswherever, and then titsOhMyGod, and then titsComingRightForUs, and so on. Not a fire hazard and still not absolutely safe.

      They are perfecting the battery. It happens to take the form of "adding bits" as you say.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        NB

        I know practically nothing about the challenges involved in centrifugal energy storage but it always seemed Kind Of Neat(TM)

        1. JeffyPoooh
          Pint

          Re: NB

          Dbtx commented "centrifugal energy storage"

          It's great. But with single flywheel systems, when you try to turn left the nose goes up instead.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: NB

            It's lolful how I saw that physics demo and forgot already. Nice catch :) But after further alleged thought, it sounds like the kind of innovative navigation technology that we can turn into some IoT crap. Chariots.

      2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

        Re: erm

        I must confess that titsComingRightForUs does have a certain appeal, doctor.

  7. Stevie

    Bah!

    So instead of having your pocket explode like a rocket motor was put in it and set off you get gassed with chemicals of unknown toxicity?

    There's just no downside to this miracle cell phone technology. Onward and upward.

  8. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    Dangerous batteries on aircraft

    Most likely to be found in the aircraft "Safety Equipment".

    Old LiSO2 primary cells, not meeting the latest TSOs. Often found in ELTs, Acoustic Beacons, older avionics. Even on not very old aircraft.

    The newer lithium primary cells are good. LiMnO2, TSO-142a if I recall correctly. Safer than a very safe thing.

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