back to article Here's the thing: We've pressed pause on my startup

Previously, you intimated that most of you would not relish a night out on the tiles with our team (boo). No pony for you So, it turns out that this is the real world, and even when the CEO wishes for a pony*, it doesn't always trot up. And that means, dear readers and commentards, that you get to hear when it doesn't go to …

  1. Jason Bloomberg Silver badge
    Unhappy

    And on, and on, and on, it goes

    Hasn't this TVR project, now commercialised as RADBOT, been in the pipeline for a good number of years?

    So far it seems a sorry tale of going nowhere fast, and it's not a particularly interesting story being told along the way.

    The only thing I am getting from all this is it's a fine example of how to badly run a project.

    1. Warm Braw

      Re: And on, and on, and on, it goes

      There's been a lot of hype about the concept - endless references to conference talks and interviews - but I still haven't really worked out what they're trying to build.

      All you need in a remotely-controllable TRV head is, effectively, a solenoid and some means of activating it. Beyond that you need some temperature sensors and, perhaps, occupancy sensors, some compute power, some switches and a display. Pretty much all of that is available off the shelf at least for prototyping, though you could probably build products out of components until there was a proven market of sufficient volume to warrant custom manufacturing. It's all very well aiming for £10 (retail) per unit, but that seems extremely ambitious for an initial product, especially when it seems to require a custom controller board of some kind for the TRV.

      However, I suspect the real problem is exemplified by this video...

      1. <shakes head>

        Re: And on, and on, and on, it goes

        why am I now thinking about the IT Crowd,

        that was bad

      2. SImon Hobson Bronze badge

        Re: And on, and on, and on, it goes

        All you need in a remotely-controllable TRV head is, ...

        There's your problem, that's NOT what they are building.

        Each head is self-sufficient and self contained - it determines for itself what the room occupancy is, learns for itself what the occupancy patterns are, and it controls the setpoint on it's own. That is, you buy on, pop batteries in it, pop it on the valve - and that's about it.

        it's aimed at people who don't tend to read TheRegister - the sort of people who don't understand the controls that so many houses have. By not setting their controls (such as they even exist) well, they are wasting money on heating. Hardly any "non-geek" house has per-room controls beyond the basic TRV.

        Using the wireless is optional. But you can link the valve heads to a boiler interface so the boiler can run just when a radiator is needed to heat it's room and turn off otherwise - IMO this would be the default installation mode.

        So they aren't aiming at geeks with (in general, and on average) a reasonable disposable income - but at (for example) social housing (and private sector) tenants with little disposable income. They can't go modifying the system, so being able to fit these without modification, AND take them with them when they move on (without needing to pay someone to install/remove stuff and fix any damage) is an important selling point. And a key point of their target market is that many people (my elderly mother included) really don't "get" timers and programmers, let alone have any ability to drive them.

        And AIUI their target price is to be significantly below the current cost for this sort of product.

        Oh yes, and you can as a geek hook up a receiver to your computer and log loads of stats and stuff. But for the target market, you don't need to do anything complicated, or sign away your privacy, or ....

      3. Voland's right hand Silver badge

        Re: And on, and on, and on, it goes

        All you need in a remotely-controllable TRV head is, effectively, a solenoid

        Nope - will not work. Working fully functional solenoid "cut-off" off flow if installed on all radiators may mean a potential full flow cut-off, overpressure and a leak or damaged pump. In fact, even if you cut-off all but one you may damage your pump - depends on what is the flow setting. Also, a good pump will push against the trv valve so much that you cannot against that with a solenoid and batteries - you will drain them in 10 minutes.

        This is why programmable TRVs (I have ~ 6 of those in the house and they make quite a bit of difference on the gas bill) use a small step motor. The motor turns a very conventional scew which pushes the valve on/off.

  2. Dan 55 Silver badge

    Get first in the queue for that new start-up funding announced in the Autumn statement. The government will be handing money out left, right, and centre so that it can be deemed a success... Try to get it before the next financial meltdown or a Daily-Mail led baying mob of imbeciles decides your radiator thermostats are anti-Brexit, break down your door, and drags you off to be executed.

  3. Evil Auditor Silver badge

    Now, at least, I understand what it is about. (Of course, that was just me and me not having heard of Radbot before.) And I really like the attitude of not only reporting about success but also what goes wrong.

    Besides a suboptimally managed project I wonder if there's also something suboptimal in the marketing...

    1. Brewster's Angle Grinder Silver badge

      I take it your definition of suboptimal that is "anything less than 100%". We've all come to expect perfection as standard.

      1. Evil Auditor Silver badge

        Perfection? Not at all. If a project would (or indeed even could) be managed perfectly it would rather be a disaster. A project is usually a continuous control cycle of checking, comparing, and adjusting and hence cannot be perfect (meaning complete) by definition.

        Suboptimal in terms of project management I see as e.g. having goals set against available better knowledge, not checking the project's progress properly, not doing necessary adjustments against available better knowledge. I'd like to emphasis "available better knowledge" because here it is about what is known at the time of acting (and not in hindsight). An example which I encountered in numerous variations in many projects is sticking to a once chosen path but being rather flexible about the original goals.

  4. Gene Cash Silver badge
    Coat

    RADBOT

    What is it?

    [googles]

    https://ridepdw.com/products/radbot-1000

    "The RADBOT 1000 is equipped with a blazing 1.0 watt LED and a large precision reflector to provide visibility to your backside. Powered by 2xAAA batteries, the RADBOT has three modes: zZz pop, Cornea Blitz and Rock Steady for up to 30 hours run time."

    So it's a bicycle light?

    1. James 1

      Re: RADBOT

      I think part of the issue may have been the inability to find it on the internet with any ease.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: RADBOT

      I think part of the issue may have been the inability to find it on the internet with any ease.

    3. Dan 55 Silver badge
      Stop

      Re: RADBOT

      This is not the radbot you're looking for.

  5. James 1

    Unable to find it

    Part of the funding problem was the inability to find it

  6. Tim Seventh

    Radbot

    "Radbot Our goal as a company is to get hundreds of millions of our smart devices out there, in the hands of Joe Public. Saving money and carbon, and mental energy for the things in life that normal people actually care about."

    Just by reading this tells me there are problems from the start.

    1. Unclear Direction.

    Those two sentences just doesn't really give the reader a clear idea of what they're doing. All you get from it is "Saving money and things we care with smart devices". If you have to describe your product in fewer than ten words, what is it? Power-bills Saving Devices? Green Energy Devices? Mental Energy Saving Money Smart Device? Pick one and go for it. The goal and direction should be clear.

    2. Lack understanding of Customers base.

    I mean really, who's your audiences? If your product is aim for casual customers, you built for casual aim. If you aim for home usage, you design it with simplified interface. MS Office was built for enterprise office, iPhone was design for casual personnel and Linux was a hobby. Letting it expand is a different story but it should start with a specific customers base.

    There are other problems but those two are the main. Unfortunately generally speaking, this devices sounds like another IoT and it's better that Mirai doesn't get more bots.

  7. imanidiot Silver badge

    So uhmm.

    In accordance with my fellow commentards I will ask:

    What the heck do you even DO? What is the "dictionary description" of your product? Even an article as this could have used a 2 sentence description of exactly what it is you are trying to put into the market.

    1. IR

      Re: So uhmm.

      This is the second article I have read about RADBOT and I didn't know what it was until I read these comments. I thought it was some kind of joke article series about a vaporware kickstarter project since there was never any explanation of what it was and there were always polls with funny options.

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