back to article Microsoft: Don't worry about the CRM cloud price hike... think of the features

Forget the near-impossible product price comparison in Microsoft's revamped CRM licence, just lead with those extra features and functionality (F&F) and any resistance from customers will melt. This seems to be the message coming out of Microsoft HQ in Redmond, a week after the CRM Online suite was killed off and bundled into …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Marketing>Software

    If only the software was good enough to "sell itself" they would not need to fund the marketing layer who's role seems to be to obfuscate cost and confuse customers.

    If I want some software I want to know how much it costs, not get the "well it depends, what shoes were you thinking of wearing while using it, was your maternal grandmother left handed, what direction was the prevailing wind the last time you rebooted?"

    Humbug on a cloud.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Marketing>Software

      We are a really really small startup.

      We have just 6 users to sell stuff. That is >400£ per month. Or about 5000£ per year, and crap data integration with anything else BUT microsoft.

      For 5000£ we can do something way more interesting for us using open source...something that will NOT be constantly be shifting and that will be very well integrated with MY stuff.

      The problem with Microsoft and all cloud providers is that I will get vendor lockin and propietary API calls... in the end it will cost me the same to have to do the CRM part ourselves, plus the server cost will be 40$ a month + about 500$ a year in SW maintenance.. and no vendor lockin (but open sourcer product lock).

      If that sounds reasonable, now think big. I have led the creation of systems for thousands of users.. even if you reach an agreement with M$ and only pay 20$ per seat, 4000 users will be 960.000$ per year.. and with rolling SW changes.

      Anon, as I dont want to be identified.

      1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

        Re: Marketing>Software

        For 5000£ we can do something way more interesting for us using open source...something that will NOT be constantly be shifting and that will be very well integrated with MY stuff.

        Get SuiteCRM at suitecrm.com. It's compatible with SugarCRM, so you can just get some books on SugarCRM and get going with it, and as it's Open Source (and documented - the other thing you really need) you can (a) integrate it relatively easily and (b) keep it stable re. features and API.

        You can run it hosted, hire a VM somewhere or just plant an old PC in your office running Linux, but whatever you do, never skimp on backups because the true price of a CRM is dependency (which is why MS is so very, very, VERY keen to get you to sign up to theirs, it locks in your data). With SuiteCRM, that data is at least held in a format you can track but you must realise that you are pushing your sales processes there - if the thing fails you will lose your data and sales leads, and without a backup that basically means death for your company.

        Good luck, and let us know how you get on (busy with a startup myself :) ).

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Marketing>Software

          Buy everybody 10 raspberry pis - that gives you $2900 to spend on intenet.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    I wouldn't call a lighter wallet a feature.

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      I wouldn't call a lighter wallet a feature.

      It is from Microsoft's perspective :). What's more, it can return to its old game of locking up corporate data in a proprietary format and I bet they have been absolutely itching to re-establish that kind of lock in since they were forced to (pretend to) open their Office file formats.

      That's why I'm looking at SuiteCRM. The only trouble I've found is that it very quickly throws an XSS alert during admin functions if your browser has things like Ghostery or uBlock installed. I've installed Opera specifically to talk to the test install and that seems to work.

      We'll probably get some consultancy from SuiteCRM once we have worked out what exactly we want and the associated processes - not only does it save us time, it's also a form of payback.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        An office program that notices adblockers -let alone throws fits- can just fuck right off. If it's important enough to put into an actual document -as opposed to just throwing some text or emails about- then it's important enough to not let other bastards see it. Ad networks are firmly in the "bastards" category in my personal classification system.

  3. Pascal Monett Silver badge

    Ah, the wonderful future we are going toward

    The Cloud appears to be an environment where the provider can change the conditions of use and the entire environment whenever the provider wants.

    I can accept such an attitude for a free, open-source product destined for individual use. I cannot accept such arbitrary changes for professional, paying customers.

    A business needs to be reactive to its clients needs, not to its own tools for running the business. No company can survive when its internal management software switches gears and changes everything without notice. Internal gears need to be well-adjusted, properly oiled and completely reactive. Disruption of smooth operations is something that should be planned, approved, explained ahead of time, set to a calendar that everyone knows and respects that calendar.

    Microsoft obviously has the right to make any changes it wants, no discussion there, but I have trouble believing that companies are going to put up with such upheavals at unexpected intervals in the long term.

    1. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Ah, the wonderful future we are going toward

      "A business needs to be reactive to its clients needs, not to its own tools for running the business."

      "Own" doesn't seem to fit in that sentence. That's the problem, right there.

    2. Aitor 1

      Re: Ah, the wonderful future we are going toward

      I'm altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.

      You know, my way or the highway... and that nice set of data you have here... it would be terrible if anything happened to it...

    3. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      Re: Ah, the wonderful future we are going toward

      Microsoft obviously has the right to make any changes it wants

      It does, and as long as you ensure you can match that with the right and ability to then walk away you're fine from a business perspective. The issue is that a CRM tends to combine data sets in a way that is hard to replicate outside the software that created them, so it creates a lock in (one of Microsoft's favourite methods to keep you paying).

      As I said elsewhere, we're in the process of assembling a new startup and to date that has not been a single viable argument to use any Microsoft products, and especially not anything cloud based. Heck, we don't even use Office - we've been using LibreOffice for years elsewhere but I recognise we're fortunate to be in the rare position of not having to exchange Office files with others who do not use LibreOffice.

      But I digress. I've looked at SugarCRM for quite some time as well as it's derivative TigerCRM, but only since UK company SuiteCRM started up has that become more interesting. I have no relationship with them, but what they do seems to make sense and has as added advantage that the CRM code is accessible, which promotes long term resilience.

      Moreover, *you* make the choice where it runs. Internally on a box on the LAN, on a server inside the DMZ, on a hired VM or fully hosted - you can make that choice based on budget and migrate when applicable. Just make sure you make backups..

  4. RonWheeler

    This year's sales targets

    > long term customer retainment.

  5. nematoad
    Windows

    No thanks!

    Now is probably a good time to start seeing what the FLOSS offerings are.

    Having had a small business working to a very tight budget I would be alarmed at the increased costs. Just because MS is offering a package with all the bells and whistles would not lessen the threat to my bottom line. Especially if I had no need for the aforesaid bells and whistles.

    No, just another try on by MS to see if they can squeeze a bit more out of their customers/victims.

    1. HmmmYes

      Re: No thanks!

      The changing costs (upwards, always) are the least of SME problems. The are easily fixed by ca$h.

      Its problems such as changing the API/compatibility at random time - Eh, my web sales app no longer works and I dont have anyone to change it.

      Or, the killer, Weve pulled the plug, fckoff. Also known as Silverlight.

      1. Aitor 1

        Re: No thanks!

        Changing API/compatibility is huge if you integrate the damn thing... that is the main reason we decided to not sign with M$/SalesForce/Zoho.

        The cost is not very high, but when you realize how they deprecate functionality, APIs... every two versions of salesforce your API may be broken... hey, they told you one version ago!!

        So this means that you would need to check every release to see if your specific API calls have been deprecated.

        Great.

        Also, workflows in all these cloud SAAS change. How do you control that this key feature that made you sign up doesnt get away, you might wonder. Well, the answer is you cant, unless you are huge. And if you are huge, the questions should rather be why are you using the damn thing... it would be cheaper to use your own. Note: you might remember this CEO who decided to migrate to salesforce and then fire all his developers.. may he burn in hell...

  6. Sir Awesome

    F&F

    F U & F Off

  7. Will Godfrey Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Surprised?

    Not me. This is exactly what I expected - just slightly sooner than I guessed. I thought they'd leave it a year or two longer to make sure their customers fish were securely on the hook.

    1. Aitor 1

      Re: Surprised?

      Same thing will happen with VPS, sorry, "cloud nodes", sorry "instances"

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    "Business version"

    Hold up, this price hike is not for the "Business Version"? The "Business Version is unlikely to be affordable. Does Nadella really think they can just rip off British customers like this because of Brexit?

    1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: "Business version"

      Do you want the simple answer or the long answer?

      Ok, I'll give you both

      Yes

      and

      To goldarn right they are gonna rip us off because of BREXIT. This is Microsoft you are talking about aren't you? The don't give owt for nowt.

    2. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: "Business version"

      "Does Nadella really think they can just rip off British customers like this because of Brexit?"

      I assume that's a rhetorical question.

  9. Frank N. Stein

    :-)

    You beat me to it on that comment.

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