back to article Hard-up Brits 'should get subsidy for 10Mbps'

Folks in the UK unable to afford speeds of 10Mbps under the Universal Service Obligation (USO) should be offered a subsidy, the representative body for 370 councils has said today. The Local Government Association is calling on the government to introduce a subsidised broadband service to help anyone facing undue hardship in …

  1. wolfetone Silver badge

    We have a government that won't even properly fund our NHS but think it's a great idea to debate whether we should buy the Queen a new boat. Why do you expect them to think subsidising broadband for the poor would be a good idea?

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      s/them/us/

      Governments have no money, they can only spend the money they take of us in tax, directly or indirectly. Subsidize one group == increase taxes for another.

  2. fnusnu

    Is it me

    or are the comments here becoming tediously political?

    1. frank ly

      Re: Is it me

      Some of them are tediously factual too.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it me

      It's Trump's Clinton's fault. The bastard.

      (Delete as applicable)

      ...but this particular topic is political... so perhaps not the best place for your venting! :|

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Is it me

      Not only that, before a few months ago, the occasional political comments were from a broad spectrum of political views, now it's all moved tediously to the left.

      The same happened on The Times comment section too. It really is bizarre.

  3. Tony S
    Facepalm

    We have a crumbling infrastructure; roads, rail, air and sea.

    We have schools that are dire need of repair

    We have hospitals that could use a serious injection of cash

    We have a military that is being asked to do even more with even less

    and they think a priority should be to subsidise broadband.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      You forgot "corroding strands of ancient copper and aluminium" from your list of "crumbling infrastructure"

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    BB for the poor

    On the Council estate near me, the so called 'poor' all have Sky or VM and huge TV's. They already have BB.

    Please define what you mean by 'poor'.

    Is it the person selling the 'Big Issue' on the streets or what?

    The term poor is relative.

    I'm poorer than I was two months ago because I've retired. Would I qualify as poor?

    The measure used by charities would include those out of work but can afford Sky etc or should it just include those who live on their state pension.

    Well, my mother is one of those. Thanks to housing benefit etc she can manage quite nicely so much so that she has to contibute more than £80/month towards her carers (she is nearly 100 so quite frail).

    Please let us know what the real meanring of poor is in 2016 UK. Then we can judge who really deserves subsidised BB. It is no use saying 'poor' without a proper qualification of what it means.

    1. AMBxx Silver badge
      Boffin

      Re: BB for the poor

      International definition of poor is something along the lines of some percentage of median income (not sure if half or two-thirds).

      It's more a measure of income inequality than actual poverty.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: BB for the poor

        "It's more a measure of income inequality than actual poverty."

        Which is why one of the effects of the banking crashin 2008 was to reduce UK "poverty" since incomes at the top end dropped bringing the median income down meaning many peopel "moved out of poverty" despite no rise (or even a drop) in their income.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: BB for the poor

      @AC: I'm 59 and unemployed, despite >40 years IT experience, largely, I suspect, due to my age.

      I live in a council flat.

      I receive £73.10 per week JSA plus housing & council tax benefit. However, I have to pay about a quarter of my JSA payment back to the council as the amount of housing & council tax benefit I receive doesn't cover the full amounts. In part, this is due to being hit with the 'Bedroom Tax' because when I had to be moved from my previous flat, which was being demolished, I was re-housed in a two-bedroom flat (the second bedroom is 7ft x 9ft). I didn't request a two bedroom flat when I was being moved.

      I do qualify for the BT Basics package, which gives me a land-line for £12/month (no free calls) and have a 3GB/month metered BB package at £11/month. Might be able to get a better introductory BB deal if I were prepared to keep swapping every year or so but needs to be with a Linux-friendly ISP.

      This leaves me with about £32/week for food and utility bills.

      Am I poor?

      1. Roland6 Silver badge

        Re: BB for the poor

        I do qualify for the BT Basics package, which gives me a land-line for £12/month (no free calls) and have a 3GB/month metered BB package at £11/month. Might be able to get a better introductory BB deal if I were prepared to keep swapping every year or so but needs to be with a Linux-friendly ISP.

        So you are paying £23 pcm for phone and BB,..

        Currently EE appear to be offering uLtd BB and free weekend calls plus a few other extras for £18.50 pcm - seems like the package for the 'poor' is intended to fleece... Otherwise you could consider Three's 4GB for the price of 1GB plan...

        But you do allude to the missing piece in all of this, the consumer equipment. These days the line doesn't come with a phone and BB doesn't come with a PC and on JSA etc.

        Even though you can get refurbished PC's from businesses that focus on people on low incomes/benefits, the systems still aren't cheap relative to their disposable income.

        Given >40 years in IT, I presume you are counting the days down to your 60th birthday when you should be able to start drawing on your accrued pension(s)?

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: BB for the poor

          "Currently EE appear to be offering uLtd BB and free weekend calls plus a few other extras for £18.50 pcm"

          Thanks for the heads-up, but the EE £18.50 deal (£1/month BB + £17.50/month line rental) is an 18 month offer. After that BB goes up to £10/month = £27.50/month (at current rates). Yes, I could go the constantly switching between providers route, but life is looking increasingly too short for the inevitable grief and disruption that would certainly ensue - one axiom I've learned from experience is: 'Nothing Ever Works Properly'.

          I'm ok for h/w - been given a lot of old cast-off kit, newest were a couple of first gen i3 mobo+cpu+ram combos, which allowed me to retire my last P4 (spit!) systems. No problem with old cases to put them in. Also got quite a collection of spare used HDDs now, some with nearly 60k hours on them - smallish by current standards (80GB - 2TB) but big enough for my needs - OSs on small drives and data on bigger ones (or arrays/BODs of smaller ones - mhddfs has been a boon - slowish but can combine multiple hdds without losing the entire 'array' when one hdd craps out - just need to replace it and rsync from another of my systems to replace the missing stuff instead of a full restore - yep, currently got five systems with full copies of all my data). Second-hand ram is cheap enough from ebay

          Keeping up to date with Microsoft is a non-starter though - no way I can afford the licenses for server & SQL. Good job I like Linux & Postgres.

          Retirement for me is at 66, so another seven years to go - got three pension schemes, in addition to the state pension, but not enough to live on at 60. Funny how, on the very rare occasions that I do get a job interview, no one ever asks me "What do you see yourself doing in ten years?"

          1. Roland6 Silver badge

            Re: BB for the poor

            Re: 'Nothing Ever Works Properly'

            Especially if you are depending on it working.

            Friends don't understand why I refuse to do system updates eg. El Capitan to Sierra on working systems just before the owner is about to go on a trip. Yes they should work and may have worked without problems previously but because you are depending on it working without complication you can almost guarantee you are going to encounter problems...

            Otherwise I agree about life being too short.

            Good luck with finding something to cover the bills until the pensions kick in, it isn't easy and I suspect in the coming years many more will experience the pain of significantly reduced income in their 50's to retirement at 70.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: BB for the poor (Correction)

        Doh! - bad maths - I subtracted monthly amounts for land-line and BB from weekly income numbers.

        Dividing those two monthly amounts by four, as a rough approximation, gives £3 & £2.75 = £5.75/week instead of £23/week, so I actually have roughly £50/week for food and utility bills. Thought it seemed a bit too low at the time but didn't spot the stupid mistake.

  5. Ryan Kendall

    10Mbps is practically useless for anyone with more than one PC.

    Everyone should have 50Mbps minimum by 2020, we are falling far behind the rest of Europe.

    I'm already payin for BT 24Mbps and ive got a friend who gets BT 200Mbps(FTTH) for the same price i pay for mine.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Why is 10Mbps useless? Doesn't make any sense. A quote from the article

      "said as government services become more digital, the USO will need to provide faster and more reliable speeds and for vulnerable residents."

      Just because services become 'more digital' doesn't mean you need more bandwidth. As 'the internet' grows doesn't mean you need to have more bandwidth to keep up.

      Most of the reasons for needing a high speed consumer connection where people in society may be truly disadvantaged (rather than in a social context of using it as an entertainment medium) don't require a high speed connection at the present time.

      Sure, in the furture we might be in a scenario when the only way to access job seekers allowance is to fire up your VR headset twice a day and sit in a virtual 3d.vr.direct.gov office and speak to a virtual AI bot called Jane to ensure you aren't working on the side, but I'm not sure that is part of the current government digital pathway.

      Therefore state some use case where speed is too slow for government services (in my experience it is more likely to be their servers) and that the user cannot afford the broadband to complete the task (rather than just be in an area where the broadband connection is poor) and it'll make a more interesting debate.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      BT 24Mbps ?

      Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought BT only offered up to 16Mbps ADSL profiles, isn't it TT who offer up to 24Mbps over their LLU lines ?

      Too poor and ashamed to admit you are on TT ?

      1. AMBxx Silver badge
        Facepalm

        So poor people with multiple devices, all streaming HD video at the same time should get subsidies for 100 Mb broadband?

        You sure you're commenting on the correct article?

      2. Commswonk

        Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought BT only offered up to 16Mbps ADSL profiles

        Yup; you're wrong. BT offer FTTC in a lot of places; last time I checked we got something > 42 Mb/s

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          I'm on BT and get 80mbps with FTTC.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought BT only offered up to 16Mbps ADSL profiles

          >Yup; you're wrong. BT offer FTTC in a lot of places; last time I checked we got something > 42 Mb/s

          Try again shall we that's VDSL not ADSL.

          I won't be seeking technical advice from you in future.

          1. Commswonk

            I won't be seeking technical advice from you in future.

            In your place I wouldn't either, because you might not understand it. Go and reread what you said and you will see that my response was perfectly proper and correct. Had you originally written what you meant instead of a mangled form of it then my answer wouldn't have been posted in the first place.

            OK; I'll help you out. "BT only offered up to 16Mbps ADSL profiles" means that BT only offers ADSL (the speed is irrelevant) when what you meant was "BT's ADSL service only provides up to 16 Mb/s.

            "If you want correct answers then you must ask correct questions"

            Try harder next time...

  6. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. smudge
      Holmes

      That's ALL that needs to be done. JUST BLOW A FUCKING FIBRE OUT TO EVERY ADDRESS.

      Not too familiar with the geography of the UK, are you?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Holmes

        So how do you suppose they're "planning" to get this 10Mb minimum service they're pontificating about to "100% of households"? Stick a 4g mast up in all the really tricky ones' gardens? Or by deploying crack squadrons of flash card carrying pigeons perhaps?

      2. Commswonk

        That's ALL that needs to be done. JUST BLOW A FUCKING FIBRE OUT TO EVERY ADDRESS.

        Your rant might have made more sense if the post on which you appear to be commenting hadn't been deleted by its author.

        As an aside I (and doubtless many others) would be delighted (and probably amused) if you were to tell us just how much " fibre to every address" would cost. And tell us "from where". The exchange? Nearest cabinet?

        1. Tom 38

          As an aside I (and doubtless many others) would be delighted (and probably amused) if you were to tell us just how much " fibre to every address" would cost.

          Rough estimate, you could probably do it for around £20bn, roughly the same as Crossrail. Even if it cost double that, it would be less than the cost of HS2.

          Cost depends a lot on how you do it; with enough political will it would become cheaper to do, eg legislating simple land access for telegraph poles rather than negotiating with each land owner.

          I'd much rather that we invested in modern future proof network capability that benefit every household in the UK, and allowing more remote working rather than making the trains a bit better*. High speed, low latency, symmetrical internet connections transforms what the internet can be used for, and would place Britain at the forefront of the modern world. We have cheap government borrowing at the moment, we should use it.

          * Crossrail is actually tremendously important, as London is pretty full and needs it. HS2 is a proper vanity project though, the problems with congestion on the railways outside of London can be fixed without the fapfest that is HS2.

        2. smudge
          Facepalm

          Your rant might have made more sense if the post on which you appear to be commenting hadn't been deleted by its author.

          The bit in italics was me quoting part of the deleted rant.

          The second sentence was my comment on the rant.

          Most people appear to have got that.

          But not you.

      3. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge
        Coat

        JUST BLOW A FUCKING FIBRE OUT TO EVERY ADDRESS.

        A fucking fibre? What, you want subsidised kinky porn now, as well?

  7. Drefsab_UK

    hmmm

    I do wonder who this actually is for, I see plenty of people living off benifits (with no real intention of ever getting a job) who some how can afford sky/virgin, or go away on nice holidays, alcohol, tobacco or drugs. If thats what they choose to spend their benifits on then that's their choice but they should then not be given something else for free.

    My elderly neighbour's get no help, they worked all their life they are JUST above the point where could get pension credit, they have to struggle for everything. Glasses no you have to pay for those yourself, hearing aids yup them to, oh batteries for your hearing aids yup pay up for them as well etc the list goes on.

    Sure I can see some logic to say that if gov services are online the people need to have access, but people who get given it free should not just be the generic ones on benifits who choose to get other things first.

    The other point about 10mbps not being enough, USO is bear minimum to access online web site services. Its not meant to be enough for whole households to be streaming 4k media and use other paid online service. If they want better they should damned well pay for it like the rest.

    1. Ragarath

      Re: hmmm

      I agree. In all honesty if this is about accessing government websites then there is still not much more need than a 56k modem (can you still get a dial up service?) as the pages will still load.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: hmmm

        "...still not much more need than a 56k modem (can you still get a dial up service?) as the pages will still load."

        Yes & yes.

        Posted via such a contraption... although only connected at 33k. I wish I was poor :(

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: hmmm

      Wow, Daily Mail rant alert.

    3. wolfetone Silver badge

      Re: hmmm

      Few questions to the OP:

      1) What particular benefit are they living off? Job seekers? Child allowance?

      2) How do you know they can afford sky/virgin? Just because a dish is outside the house doesn't mean they're watching anything

      3) What do you consider a nice holiday? A trip to France for £9.50 using tokens from The S*n?

      4) Have you seen them use drugs? Why don't you report them to the Police?

      5) Your elderly neighbour doesn't get glasses for themselves? That's odd, my elderly mother gets them and has worked in the country 50 years.

      6) Your list goes on and on, well please share the list and maybe we can either help your neighbour collectively get these things they require, or we can see just how truthful you're being.

      7) Will you be demanding that library's - the few that are open - also stop providing books, films, music for free to people on benefits as well?

      8) Government websites are notoriously slow, dodgy, full of bloat. This takes bandwidth.

      Strikes me as you're either confused about what site you're on, or you're one of the very few commentards that the Daily Fail has actually banned from their site.

      1. Drefsab_UK

        Re: hmmm

        1) To answer the question, that depends on the person but all of ther above, some of them living within the limits of the system others frauding it. Don't get me wrong there are genuine people out there in a hard way who benifits should help however I also have met many that want that life for themself who call people who work idiots for not taking from the state.

        2) Yes im not simply looking at if they have dishes on the side of a house, im talking about people with active subscriptions who will brag about such things but then complain about having a lack of money.

        3) What I consider a nice holiday and what the people I specifically am thinking about differ a lot, but no not some cheap s*n holiday, but the likes of Turkey or such.

        4) Yes I have seen it many times, growning up in certain area's near liverpool I knew serveral dealers and users on my street alone, every one claimed and yes the police new about it but you didn't grass unless you didnt value your safety. More recently again yes people taking drugs and the authorities know about it in fact in the particular case I am talking about drugs is one of the major factors of having the children put into care.

        5) This could be different on case by case, the particular example I mentioned I only found out about recently when my neighbour's were pick pocketed just after picking up their pension's. When I was asking if she had enough money for food in the mean time to get buy she told me she had some money she was saving to buy some new glasses as hers were broken. Me and my missus organised a collection and raised the money to give them back everything they lost. We are also helping them look into what they can get help with but it all boils down to the fact as a couple they are just above the income threshold for getting pension credit so have to pay.

        6) If your serious about helping them then feel free to email me on drefsab@gmail.com and I can give details, I am in contact with AgeUK trying to arrange what help I can for them.

        7) Libaries are free regardless of benifit status (at least the ones I've used and my local one still is). Why would I suggest they scrap that just because I think that giving something new should only be to those truely in need?

        8) There is a point to this however we are still talking about websites without heavy media content they can an do work on only a couple of mbit having 10mbit is far above what is needed to access goverment online resources no matter how badly coded and bloated they are.

        In reply to other comments saying things about the daily mail etc I am not a reader of it never have been never will be, but I grew up in some of the more deprived area's where almost everyone was claiming from the state and still have that side of the family that live that life. I personally don't agree with though that can work but dont. Im not talking about those who want to but cant, but those that as already mentioned thing those that graft to provide for their familes are fools and idiots, those who try to work the system meant to help people in real need for everything its got. You may not share those view but its still my right to have them.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: hmmm

          "growning up in certain area's near liverpool" (nice Freudian slip)

          However as you came from Liverpool you're probably a thief, whinger and liar. Unlike those people from manchester who are salt of the earth fellas.

          You know it depends on the person but all of the above, some of them living within the limits of the system others defrauding it. Don't get me wrong there are genuine people out there from Liverpool I also have met many that want that life for themselves who call people who work idiots for not stealing and lying.

          Ahh, generalisations are fun aren't they?

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: hmmm

      So to summarise: Younger people on benefits are just scroungers who have so much disposable income from benefits they live the high life, and OAPs have no money from benefits and are all struggling with the very basics with no help at all?

      A distorted view on reality I would say.

  8. David Roberts
    Black Helicopters

    Why are the Councils so supportive?

    Is it because they care for the poor, or is it so they can sack all their staff and go fully digital?

    [Outsourced, of course.]

  9. Andy00ff00

    Some of these kids is so poor, they can't even afford new trainers.

    Reebok has offered to donate 10,000 pounds worth of trainers to the cause.

    I saw to Reebok, c'mon - it's not 1994!. These kids is poor, but they aint deperate

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      How much do Reebok/Nike etc., pay

      To people prepared to carry their branding around on their clothing as walking adverts? I never have been able to find out.

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Councils get your priorities and legal obligations right and fix the roads that are falling apart, I'm seriously considering buying a second hand Ferguson Tractor to get around as it's the only thing with the suspension to cope.

    I pity cyclists playing dodge the pothole and tipper truck at the same time.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Doc Ock,

      agree completely .. apart from the "I pity cyclists" bit. They lose more and more chance of any pity from me each time I try to walk through the "no cycling allowed" foot tunnel in Woolwich and have to dodge the low-flying illiterate cyclists .. :)

      The rest of it, yes and then some - they should start fixing roads, schools, libraries before looking for new things to do, and if sitting in nice, expensive offices, start looking for cheaper digs before considering shutting down public-facing services.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @AC

        >agree completely .. apart from the "I pity cyclists" bit.

        Well I live in the Pennines and we get a lot of tourist cyclists. There are the nice ones such as families and children who are quite courteous and aware of other road users, however there are the lycra twats who also come up displaying no road sense and a complete disregard for other road users thinking the Peak District National Park is just one giant velodrome. With the latter sort I really do want to shove a rolled up copy of the highway code where the sun doesn't shine.

        1. Fred Dibnah

          ...however there are the car drivers who also come up displaying no road sense and a complete disregard for other road users thinking the Peak District National Park is just one giant racetrack.

          FTFY

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            LMFTFY Fred

            >>.however there are the car drivers motor cyclists who also come up displaying no road sense and a complete disregard for other road users thinking the Peak District National Park is just one giant racetrack.

            The leather crew really are determined to be organ donors, check out the video, it was initially posted on youtube:

            http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/watch-biker-who-posted-shocking-7666890

            We get 'em all the time, my mate on the force has to scrape them up, tells me some real horror stories

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Potholes galore

      Just driving along Ifield Drive in Crawley yesterday was almost as bad as going off road. In fact some off road tracks have a better road service that that road. There is one huge pothole that would put any cyclist who hit it into East Surrey Hospital. There is no sign that any repairs have been done since I left 'creepy crawley' some thirty years ago. I was only there to attend a funeral. Not going back for a long time.

      Other places are just as bad but this was just stupidly bad.

  11. Hans Neeson-Bumpsadese Silver badge

    Libraries

    Everyone in a community has, in theory, access to the Internet, through free terminals provided in public libraries.

    Unfortunately, in the cut-tastic budgets of local government, libraries are closing (or, at least, restricting their opening hours) left, right and centre.

    I'd prefer to see the money being spent on keeping libraries open, providing Internet access and a whole load of other community services.

    1. J.G.Harston Silver badge

      Re: Libraries

      "Everyone in a community has, in theory, access to the Internet, through free terminals provided in public libraries."

      What public libraries? They're being closed left right and centre.

  12. 0laf

    Truthful figures

    I wonder how truthful some of the current figures are really?

    I tried to get fibre at my new house and was always told it "was available at your postcode". But when I tried to buy it there was a problem. The switch cabinet was at capacity so in fact I can't get fibre and have to wait on the exchange to be upgraded.

    So I wonder if I and many others are listed as having access to superfast broadband but not actually being able to buy it. Knowing something of government statistic I'd guess rather a lot of people are in that boat. And doubt BT will be in a hurry to add any capacity to those exchanges sine they've already ticked that government target box.

    1. Noel Morgan

      Re: Truthful figures

      Absolutely agree.

      I was told I could upgrade from ADSL at 5Mb to 45Mb (guaranteed minimum 40).

      Duly went ahead and was left with a fibre connection running at 2Mb. Seems being 3.5km from the cabinet is OK for ADSL but not VDSL.

      By the time this was figured out with engineer visits and then fixed I had spent almost 4 weeks with crap internet. I can tell from experience that while you may not need 10Mb for multiple users in a house (5) you certainly need more than 2!

      However - my actual point is - according to BT's stats I am capable of getting 45mb and as such am well above the 10mb minimum, and I am sure i will be counted as such in their percentage of users capable of high speed internet.

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Can't you get (not great but still ) broadband for free when you get your phone service from TalkTalk, paying for just the line rental?

    I do wonder whether this is really necessary. If it is, then surely the solution is to force BT to give free internet away with line rental ( capped at the minimum legal speed and download limited, obviously ).

  14. J.G.Harston Silver badge

    What they could do it stop them forcing me to pay fifteen quid a month for a landline I never use just for the priviledge of having an internet connection.

    1. Phil O'Sophical Silver badge

      stop them forcing me to pay fifteen quid a month for a landline I never use just for the priviledge of having an internet connection.

      Why not cut that landline with some pliers, and see how much you "never use it". Maybe you think the internet comes through the ether???

      1. Tom 38

        Why not cut that landline with some pliers, and see how much you "never use it".

        He does have a slight point, the line rental charge is supposed to be used for maintenance of the line and provision of service, but has been steadily increasing to also be a base part of the telcos profits. Do you really think the costs of maintaining the network have increased 50% or more since 2008?

  15. Zack Mollusc
    Meh

    Discount Broadband?

    Surely the skiving pikey dole scum underclass scratters use their iPhones to get on the internet?

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    this must be a joke?!?!

    I live 2 miles from a big town where 100 - 200 MB is available, however, no matter how much I spend I can only get 3 MB max, and sometimes nothing at all... perhaps this should be addressed before helping dole bludgers watch on demand reruns of Jeremy Kyle...do we not remember the governments free laptop give away a few years ago?? they just went to pawn brokers a week after giros had been spent.

  17. Zmodem

    should be doing something about the line rental, broadband is only £10, line rental is £17.99, line rental should be £10 too is you don't need a phone

    if you don't have a phone you should'nt have to pay for satellite bandwidth and maintenance, the internet goes through ocean fiber

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