back to article USB-C is now wired for sound, just like Sir Cliff Richard

The USB implementers forum has loosed “USB Audio Device Class 3.0” onto the breathlessly-waiting world. USB-C cables can already carry data, power and video over a single cable. The new spec means there's a standard way to deliver sound over a USB-C cable. With one cable to rule them all now a possibility, device-makers have …

  1. David 132 Silver badge
    Happy

    To the USB implementers forum, I say...

    Congratulations. Some People will approve. The new cable gives audio and Power To All Our Friends. True, We Don't Talk Anymore when we're glued to our devices, but that's the way the Young Ones are these days. For those that think making devices more waterproof by removing ports is a bad idea, I say: Do You Want To Dance on your Summer Holiday at the beach?

    (OK, I am now feeling a combination of extreme shame and self-loathing that I was able to come up with so many Cliff references just like that. Have a relevant Young Ones quote to atone...

    "Hey kids. Stop snogging and pay attention to me. Cos if you're a wild-eyed loner standing at the gates of oblivion, then hitch a ride with us, because we're on the last freedom moped out of nowhere city. And we haven't even told our parents what time we'll be back!" )

    1. death&taxes

      Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

      Pissed when posting?

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

        If they are, it's on Mistletoe and Wine.

      2. David 132 Silver badge

        Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

        Pissed when posting?

        Actually, I was stone-cold sober and would be fibbing if I seized upon that excuse. But thanks for the kind thought.

    2. VinceH
      Thumb Up

      Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

      Upvote for quoting Rick, but definitely not for the Cliff songs, oh no.

      1. MrDamage Silver badge

        Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

        > "Upvote for quoting Wrick"

        Ftfy.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

          "Upvote for quoting PRick"

          FTFY (Bambi)

    3. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

      Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

      Does this mean sales of 3.5,, devices will now................................

      ........................

      wait for it....................

      .......................

      .................Fall off a Cliff?

    4. J. R. Hartley

      Re: To the USB implementers forum, I say...

      Oh Cliff. Sometimes you must feel like you really are a cliff. When fascists keep trying to push you over it.

  2. streaky

    Consumers..

    Who are buying devices not made by apple have the ability to shop elsewhere. Adding the functionality is fine but using that functionality to remove the 3.5mm port could by quite harmful to sales. I'd say phone makers should think twice before doing that.

    The reason the 3.5mm standard has lasted so long is it's a simple solution to a simple problem and it's more than up to the task.

    Also FWIW the waterproofing excuse is a diversion, there's plenty of mobile devices that have them and are waterproof and the cost of that is minimal.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Consumers..

      There are already a few Android devices that shipped without 3.5mm ports a couple months before Apple, there will undoubtedly be more. As with removable batteries I'm sure you'll still be able to get them if you think they're an important feature, but maybe not on the particular phone you want to buy.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        Re: Consumers..

        >Consumers.. Who are buying devices not made by apple have the ability to shop elsewhere.

        An observation: People collectively spend shitloads on headphones. New models are released all the time, at prices far higher than 'more than good enough' (i.e some Sennheisers reduced to £30). A great number of headphones sold already come in an (old 3.5mm) iPhone specific version, or with a swappable iPhone specific cable (the mic and and remote controls differ from various Android OEM implementations).

        3.5mm is great but not perfect; a 'snap-off' magnetic connector would be better, and would have saved me money since I have damaged headphone cables be catching them on things.

        1. mythicalduck

          Re: Consumers..

          3.5mm is great but not perfect; a 'snap-off' magnetic connector would be better, and would have saved me money since I have damaged headphone cables be catching them on things.

          This! I don't just catch them on things, when I'm at work, and have one connected to the desktop, I sometimes forget how short the cable is (or forget it's connected to the PC and not my MP3 player), and lean to the other side of the desk...

          1. Sgt_Oddball

            Re: Consumers..

            This is why I use headphones with removable cables (that and I leave the cables plugged into various amps and computers around the house and just take my cans with me...)

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Consumers..

            Moron.

            1. death&taxes

              Re: Consumers..

              Mirror.

        2. cambsukguy

          Re: Consumers..

          > 3.5mm is great but not perfect; a 'snap-off' magnetic connector would be better, and would have saved me money since I have damaged headphone cables be catching them on things.

          There is no reason they can't make a magnetic snap off connector that *is* a headphone jack too. I can imagine a small plug that goes slightly into the jack itself with the requisite magnetic capabilities.

          Done correctly, the jack could be left in-situ and the headphone cable merely presented to the new socket. Circular connectors would ensure any orientation was supported.

          Personally, this problem, painful buds, buds falling out and being on a bike a lot, means I use BT headphones anyway. My particular usage means charging maybe once every 2-3 weeks so it is not onerous at all.

          As for charging while listening, a removable battery and a spare doubles the usage time. If it is an office situation then wireless charging may be slower (especially compared with USB-C fast charging) but it can be used all the time without effort in a desk situation, the phone is basically always topped-up while still being free to pick up and go.

        3. streaky

          Re: Consumers..

          3.5mm is great but not perfect; a 'snap-off' magnetic connector would be better, and would have saved me money since I have damaged headphone cables be catching them on things.

          I've had the 3.5mm jack save phones from hitting the floor before so I couldn't disagree more. I'd rather lose my outdoors-worthy earphones to protect my phone than lose my phone to protect my earphones every day of the week.

    2. JeffyPoooh
      Pint

      Re: Consumers..

      "...the waterproofing excuse is a >>diversion<<..."

      I believe that you spelled 'bald-face lie' incorrectly.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    WTF?

    Devices with but a single USB-C port will mean it's hard to listen to music on wired headphones and charge devices at the same time. Given strong sales of top-up batteries, that may be a bad thing. And let's not forget that headphones with 3.5mm jacks can be had for pennies, just about anywhere.

    Are (simple) USBC to 3.5mm TR(R)S splitters and straight adaptors really beyond our scribe's powers of imagination? Well not to worry, I'm sure we won't need to imagine them for much longer. I reckon it'll only be months from the audio-enabled ports arriving until we can all pick up an adaptor for 99c on eBay... (including P&P from China)...

    1. JoshOvki

      Great another fricking adapter. Just what we are missing in our lives.

      1. Dave 126 Silver badge

        >Great another fricking adapter. Just what we are missing in our lives.

        If you buy a 5-pack of adaptors from China, you can just leave one on the end of each of your headphone cables and forget about it. As a bonus, your £0.99 adaptor will take the mechanical strain, instead of the cable on your £30 headphones.

        1. Dazed and Confused

          cheap adapters

          > If you buy a 5-pack of adaptors from China...As a bonus, your £0.99 adapter...

          Presumably the adapter is going to need to be the bit with the DAC in it, cheap digital components are easy, but when you want a quality analogue signal out, isn't that when the electronics start to get more pricey?

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      '..Are (simple) USBC to 3.5mm TR(R)S splitters and straight adaptors really beyond our scribe's powers of imagination?'

      It's not beyond my powers of imagination to forsee that use of said splitters, adapters, dongles, whatever you want to call them will lead to the early demise of the USB-C SMT connector on the phone/device.

      I've only ever had issues with one 3.5mm socket on the phones I've owned over the years, but have had to repair the USB connectors on quite a number of phones and tablets (my own, and friends/relatives devices) where strain on the USB connector receptacle caused by the cable being yanked, pulled, jerked/whatever has flexed them enough for the soldering to fail (Worst case so far was a 'cheap' tablet where the D+, D- and VBUS tracks on the PCB had lifted and broke).

      Not surprising, as they were designed with a static cable<->device connection model in mind for charging and data transfer.

      Looking at the pictures of the USB-C receptacles on usb.org, they also appear to be designed with a static cable<->device connection model in mind, so, having looked at and repaired/replaced a goodly number of failed USB receptacles on phones and tablets over the years and factoring in shoddy manufacturing processes, all I'm going to say is good luck with hanging any sort of headphone adapter off one of these and using it for any length of time in any sort of 'dynamic' manner without failure occurring.

    3. Fatman
      WTF?

      Be careful what you wish for.....

      <quote>Are (simple) USBC to 3.5mm TR(R)S splitters and straight adaptors really beyond our scribe's powers of imagination? </quote>

      Only to have the MAFIAA required DRM baked in to the converter.

  4. EveryTime

    I don't understand the waterproofing hand wringing.

    It's quite easy to make a sealed 3.5mm jack. The challenge is to seal the jack with case. The usual solution is to attach a rubber plug to the case, and call it waterproof only when the plug seals the opening. But there are plenty of examples where the case to jack joint has a water proof seal. And I've seen a cheap waterproof radio where they just skipped to the end and put a glob of silicone over the general area of the jack and case aperture.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Not really. You encapsulate the socket inside the device. The only thing breaking the water barrier then are wires. Means you have to shake out the socket and provide a small hole for water to squeeze out of when a jack is inserted, but that's not beyond the realm of design. The best reason for getting rid is thickness of device and weakening of the entire structure around the hole. Could switch to 2.5mm but why not go the whole hog and ditch it in that case?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @TRT

        "provide a small hole for water to squeeze out of when a jack is inserted"

        Fnarr

  5. This post has been deleted by its author

    1. death&taxes

      Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

      Tut tut.

      connexion

      life-threating

      curents

      Doesn't your browser nag you, or are you just a free spirit?

      1. smartypants

        Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

        'Connexion' is not wrong. It is a splendid alternative spelling which should be encouraged!

        1. dajames
          Headmaster

          Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

          'Connexion' is not wrong. It is a splendid alternative spelling which should be encouraged!

          The word "connect" comes from the Latin word "connectere" (formed from the preposition "con" meaning together and the verb "nectere" meaning to bind or fasten). We use the same alphabet as the Romans, so there's no need to change the spelling, and nothing is served by doing so.

          My Shorter Oxford says that "connexion" was formerly an alternative spelling for "connection", and that this arose because the past participle of "connectere" is "connexus", but that the word is now (about 20 years ago, I haven't got the latest edition) so spelt only in the sense of definition 6b:

          "In the Methodist Church or its offshoots: a denomination, an interrelated system of congregations."

          I'm happy to endorse the "connexion" spelling of the word when used with that rather particular meaning, and to assist Scrabble™ players, but in general use methinks the benefits of a standard spelling outweigh the charm of the alternative.

          1. Fink-Nottle

            Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

            Ask Cliff ... how do you think they keep re-animating him?

          2. petef

            Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

            The full OED entry has connection and connexion as joint headwords. They both come from Latin. The former comes from co(n)nectĕre whereas the latter is directly from connexiōn-em (in classical Latin cōnexiōn- ).

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: @cornz1

              When you are talking about applying a potential to the surface of the body, or an organ, then yes, it is the current that flows as a result of the potential and the resistance that the current flows through. There's also the issue of duration. But when you get down to a cellular level, it's the potential difference across the cell membrane that causes things to happen in cells, opening voltage-gated ion channels etc.

              1. TRT Silver badge

                Re: @cornz1

                Hm... OK, maybe I don't have a neuroscience degree after all... *checks certificate* Oh, wait... yes I do. Well in that case I mustn't be working in a neuroscience department now and for 20 of the last 25 years. *Looks around* No, that can't be it.

            2. dajames

              Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

              The full OED entry has connection and connexion as joint headwords. They both come from Latin. The former comes from co(n)nectĕre whereas the latter is directly from connexiōn-em (in classical Latin cōnexiōn- ).

              Hmm.

              I didn't have the big OED to hand when I posted earlier, but now that I have I see that the entry you cite continues:

              "The etymological spelling connexion is the original in Eng.; in 17th c. it was supported by the verb CONNEX; after the latter was displaced by CONNECT, the sb began c1725-50 to be often spelt connection, a spelling which, under the influence of etymologically-formed words, such as affection, collection, direction, inspection (all from L. ppl. stems in -ect-), is now very frequent, esp. in U.S."

              This is saying that the Latin verb connectere is irregular in the spelling of some forms in the past tense (using "-x-"), and that that irregularity was at first carried over into English but later abandoned because other Latin verbs such as affectare, directere, etc., do not show the same irregularity (though in fact directere, at least, does in some forms).

              If English has managed to discontinue an irregular form and replace it with something that is clear and consistent without straying too much from the original etymology then I can't say that that is a bad thing. If, as I suspect, the irregular Latin "-x-" spelling of connexio, and other such words, was a corruption of an earlier spelling with "-ct-" then I think that its correction in English is a Good Thing.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

          If you don't know how to pronounce easy words, sure.

    2. Richard 12 Silver badge

      Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

      I have a 13A to headphone socket adapter. I use it to listen to and record the mains.

      People do seem to freak out when I use it though.

      1. 's water music

        Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

        I have a 13A to headphone socket adapter. I use it to listen to and record the mains.

        Snooping on your neighbours' powerline networking traffic?

      2. Blitheringeejit
        Mushroom

        @Richard 12

        Many moons ago, before health and safety was invented, an amateur rock band stage tech of my acquaintance cooked up a machine for setting off flash pods using cables which had a 13A plug on one end and a quarter-inch jack on the other.

        As a guitarist, just looking at one of these cables gave me palpitations.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

      Life threatening? USB-C has a max of 20 volts of direct current, I believe. If you think that will kill you, I hope you never wired the phone lines in your house without disconnecting it outside first. In the US that would mean a whopping 48 volts of direct current if someone called while you were doing that, enough to kill you possibly make you feel a slight tickle.

      1. imanidiot Silver badge

        Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

        "a whopping 48 volts of direct current"

        Up to 110 volts RMS 20Hz sinewave actually. -48 volts is the "off hook" voltage.

        1. TRT Silver badge

          Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

          Even a few hundred mV will kill you if you get it in the right place. Lethality from accidental exposure goes down with voltage. 70V is considered non-lethal in all reasonable domestic conditions, but if you stick a 70V cable across your tongue you'll feel it (and never do it again).

          1. AMBxx Silver badge
            Joke

            Even a few hundred mV will kill you if you get it in the right place.

            Where are you planning to put your headphones? Is this some weird porno perversion?

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

            No it wont, a few hundred or less MILLIAMPS in the right place will kill you.

            A few hundred millivolts will make your toungue tingle at best.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Boffin

          Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

          > Up to 110 volts RMS 20Hz sinewave actually.

          Indeed. 75V (rms) 25Hz in the UK and perfectly sufficient to yield an altogether disquieting experience if you happen to be stripping the incoming ringer wire with your teeth when someone tries to phone you. :O(

          Sounds like TRT might have done the same?

          Don't forget to wear your safety specs whenever you're electrocuting yourself through your teeth peeps --->

          1. imanidiot Silver badge

            Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

            Slight correction on my last post. -45V is ON hook ofcourse. Off hook (receiver picked up) would be "connected" and near 0V (Apart from the voice modulation ofcourse)

            @AC: Jup, Phone lines pack a surprising wallop. I think its the slow and never ACTUALLY sinewave but blocky waveform. In the days of analog, the voltage wasn't even an attempt at sinewave, it was just a square wave, "on-off" modulation. Nice and spikey. Perfect for ringing a clapper on a bell. Also perfect for shocking the bejesus out of you.

      2. Tom 38

        Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

        USB-C has a max of 20 volts of direct current, I believe. If you think that will kill you

        As my physics teacher used to say, its the volts that thrill, and the amps that kill.

    4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: I wonder how does electrocution through your ears feel like

      Didn't you get the message? We are all supposed to use BT/Wireless devices in our ears now.

      I'll stick with my pair of Stenn studio cans (1/4 jack) for use at home. For some reason they plug straight into my Amp.

      Vinyl sounds great through them.

      I picked up a 1st press copy of 'Sticky Fingers' at a car boot last month for £0.50. Hardly ever been played.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    How does it work?

    Are they putting analogue signals on a couple of spare pins in the connector? Or does every pair of USB-C headphones need to have its own integrated DAC?

    1. This post has been deleted by its author

      1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

        Re: How does it work?

        It's digital according to the press release. Presumably it's not "Audio over USB" because it doesn't use the USB protocol but just provides a digital audio stream.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          USB audio and Lightning audio is digital ONLY, not analog!

          Why do people keep thinking that having an external DAC is 1) so expensive and 2) so bulky that they'd never do it, and/or 3) so terrible if they did it?

          The same crap is going around about the iPhone 7, with people claiming that it is passing analog audio over Lightning because "they can't possibly fit a DAC in the Lightning to 3.5mm dongle" or "Apple would never spend the money to put a DAC in there". So many people believed this ignorant crap that someone actually did a teardown of the dongle and proved that yes it does include a DAC. The Lightning earbuds also include a DAC.

          USB-C audio is NOT analog. Like Lightning audio, it is digital ONLY. All USB attached headphones will need their own DAC. That's a good thing, because then no matter what you plug those headphones into, if you play the same stuff it will sound the same regardless of whether it is plugged into a low end crappy phone or a pricey high end stereo system (at least once they have stereos with USB-C ports)

          Why should your listening experience by governed by the quality of the DAC in your phone over which you have no control? If you're an audiophile you can buy high end headphones with a high end DAC. Or if you already have high end 3.5mm headphones you're happy with, you can buy a USB-C to 3.5mm or Lightning to 3.5mm dongle with a better DAC than what you'll get included with your phone. Or if you test it and don't think the difference matters to you, you can continue using what your phone shipped with. I don't have an iPhone 7, so I can't comment on the quality of the DAC in the dongle.

          1. Inventor of the Marmite Laser Silver badge

            Re: USB audio and Lightning audio is digital ONLY, not analog!

            Just wait for the numbskull sales assistant in Currys: "Oh you gotta have the GOLD data lead. It makes the sound SOOOO much cleaner"

            1. TRT Silver badge

              Re: USB audio and Lightning audio is digital ONLY, not analog!

              I've had a pair of USB gaming headphones for a few years now. There's a DAC/ADC dongle-thing which breaks out to 3.5mm headphone and microphone sockets.

    2. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: How does it work?

      A DAC. And often an ADC, too, for microphones (stereo now as easy as the existing mono allowed by 3.5m TRRS)

  7. Tromos
    Joke

    I'm holding out for USB-D

    Includes power generation, processing and memory, and display technology. All you need is the cable - no need to plug it into anything!

    1. Uncle Slacky Silver badge

      Re: I'm holding out for USB-D

      No doubt it'll be running systemd too...

    2. Repnescasb
      Coat

      Re: I'm holding out for USB-D

      Would that be the one with doubly? Heavy metal fans won't approve

  8. theOtherJT Silver badge

    I don't have digital ears...

    At some point we're going to have to turn this signal into something analogue for the purposes of moving some air about. I really don't get this obsession with trying to make a digital headphone connector.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: I don't have digital ears...

      Analog parts complicate board design. The 3.5mm audio is the last analog part in phones, and in most laptops as well (other than those which still support VGA...pretty sure none are left with serial ports)

      Putting the DAC and amplifier inside the phone or laptop means you have no choice as to its quality. If you don't care, you can use whatever cheap adapter you want - I'm sure the one Apple ships for Lightning and what Android OEMs like Motorola ship with their USB-C phones are good enough for most. But if you care about such stuff, you can spend a little more on something of higher quality.

      Your ears may be analog, but unless you've never listened to the same song from multiple sources you don't realize how much difference the DAC and amplifier can make.

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    those white earphones

    I hope the spec includes a section on how to make earphone sound go into the ears and not radiate outward.

  10. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    I predict that they'll have overlooked some details...

    If this is about detecting the connection of analog headphones or earphones, and then switching some pins to carry analog audio, then they'll likely have missed a few things.

    Will it detect audio patch cables going to high impedance inputs? Headphones sockets are also used for Audio Out to other systems. The load is often 1k ohm or higher, not 32 ohm.

    When connecting, will there be loud buzzes and bangs before or during the transition? That'll be very unpleasant when 5v of 'Oops! Sorry' digital noise is suddenly blaring.

    Will these dual purpose systems provide the high quality audio that we've come to expect? Any residual noise, even -90dB down, can be very annoying. Crap USB contacts instead of gold plating audio pins to ensure quiet connections.

    Even if two-way adapters become available to connect a charger and headphones at the same time, noise and interference is inevitable.

    This whole thing is such a dumb idea.

    1. Dave 126 Silver badge

      Re: I predict that they'll have overlooked some details...

      >If this is about detecting the connection of analog headphones or earphones...

      No, no it isn't. It is a spec for digital audio streams.

      All your concerns about sound quality being degraded by poor contacts etc are unnecessary. Indeed, the analogue path will be shorter - integrated into the headphones, possibly just before the drivers - and the DAC and amp will be specified by AKG, Sennheiser or whoever, instead of Samsung, HTC or Sony. The DAC can even be factory programmed to take account of hardware tolerances (as is the case with EMUs and car engines). If you invest in a high-end DAC/amp combo (in your headphones), you can take it with you across future phone updates.

      There are some downsides and inconveniences too, of course.

  11. Neil Lewis

    Additional uses

    I hope the additional uses for the 3.5mm jack have also been considered. For example, there are a large number of card reader devices out there, used by vendors-on-the-move, which plug into the 3.5mm jack. Will they work, even with an adaptor, in a USB-C connector, I wonder?

    1. paulf
      Terminator

      Re: Additional uses

      I suspect, on the iPhone at least, it was considered in detail and since this was identified as one of the main consequences of removing the 3.5mm jack port is probably why they went ahead.

      Icon -> Your competing payment system is dead [on our platform].

  12. Adrian Jones

    My old Motorola V3x had no 3.5mm port. It used the micro-usb port. Which was (iirc) a surface mount component and the repeated plugging and unplugging broke it. And again after it was repaired.

  13. MrXavia

    Now if phones had a usb-c port each end, that would be nice....

    or maybe if they had removable batteries

  14. PerlyKing
    Trollface

    Finally a headphone jack in the bottom of my phone!

    Where Steve intended it to be ;-)

  15. Slx

    Just as long as they don't have all the "fail-dangerous" electrical mismatches with the current USB-C cables and devices!

    I don't want my ears blown off because some manufacturing error misidentifies the USB-C headphone jack as a USB-C tumble dryer power supply or something like that.

  16. Herby

    And one connector...

    To rule them all.

    Looks like a USB-C connector is aiming to be the last connector you will ever need.

    Serial.......Check

    Video.......Check

    Networking.........Check

    Power.......Check

    This to that.......Check

    So, what else is needed?? Inquiring minds need to know...

    Then again, cables are another thing all together. Some of them (for USB-C connectors) NEED chips to identify them.

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