back to article Smelly toilets, smokers and the Kardashians. Virgin Media staff grill top brass

Smelly toilets, smoking outside and questions as to who is the best Kardashian: these were just some of the issues Virgin Media top brass were grilled on in a Q&A session with staff seen by The Register. Many of Virgin Media's staff are worried about their future following its mega merger with US biz Liberty Global - as …

  1. OliP

    good to know the latest raise of my VM bill is being spent on generally torturing the support staff, no wonder the service is so bad on the phone.

    is it really so hard to realise that treat your employees well = happy employees = employees do good work

    its 2016 ffs

    1. Wommit

      @Olip

      "is it really so hard to realise that treat your employees well = happy employees = employees do good work"

      To realise that the 'C' layer would have to value their employees as much, or more, than The Bottom Line. So, yes, it really is that hard for the current batch of MBAs to realise that.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Olip

      studies suggest that unhappy, stressed out employees are actually more productive! Apparently contented employees become complacent and lazy ergo, unproductive.

      If you're running a business are you going to rely on its success from the kindness of strangers (employees) or are you going to create a climate of fear and uncertainty to ensure profits?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Olip

        I hope this is ironic. I'm a company director who has won awards, and you're wrong. Negative reinforcement brings about what I'll call the Office Space scenario...

        Only working hard enough to not get fired

        1. Danny 14

          Re: Olip

          Ive had no issues with VM broadband over the 3 years ive had them, but there have been 2 price hikes this year to the tune of £5. Time to jump ship, our local cabinet has been upgraded FTTC so that has opened up the possibilities now.

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Olip

            Absolutely, I jumped ship TO Virgin about 8 months ago, and have had two price rises plus my introductory offer mysteriously disappeared even though I was assured it was a 12 month deal.

            Thankfully, Sky have been getting increasingly desperate and have gone from 50% off if I go back, to 60% off, to 60% off plus £75 credit. Now I've had my confirmation of the latest price rise, I can bin them off and send them their awful Tivo box back.

      2. Bernard M. Orwell

        Re: Olip

        "...create a climate of fear and uncertainty to ensure profits?"

        You are Nikolai Machiavelli, AICMFP.

      3. The Godfather

        Re: Olip

        Is that you Scrooge?

      4. Triggerfish

        Re: Olip

        studies suggest that unhappy, stressed out employees are actually more productive! Apparently contented employees become complacent and lazy ergo, unproductive.

        Well just anecdotal evidence from several years of working for companies but bollocks.

        A little stress deadline burining creativity yes maybe.

        Day to day never ending shit job, poor management, worries about making ends meet on shit wages, Does not give you productive staff at best you get indifferent just trying to survive the day staff. At worst you get people actually being stroppy cos fuck the company. You will definetly lose your good staff.

      5. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Olip

        "studies suggest that unhappy, stressed out employees are actually more productive! Apparently contented employees become complacent and lazy ergo, unproductive."

        Citation please.

        Here's mine that says the opposite.

        http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/new_study_shows/

      6. Bernard M. Orwell

        Re: Olip

        "studies suggest that unhappy, stressed out employees are actually more productive"

        Citation please. I have lots of evidence of the converse being true, but none that suggest the situation as you describe it.

    3. Mutton Jeff

      Nows the time to ask for discounts

      Gives support staff the opportunity to stick it to the man.

  2. Andy Non Silver badge
    Unhappy

    Health and Safety

    Reminds me of a former employer. In the toilets, the water from the wash basin hot taps was too hot to use; so folks washed their hands under the cold taps. When I reported this issue I was told they couldn't reduce the temperature of the hot water for health and safety reasons. So employees had two choices: scolded hands and no germs or frozen hands with germs on them. Sigh.

    1. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

      Re: Health and Safety

      What is it with British plumbing and not having mixer taps?

      1. Martin-73 Silver badge

        Re: Health and Safety

        If that's a genuine question (I'm assuming it is) the issue was typically due to use of a header tank for the hot water (mains pressure water heating wasn't allowed till recently due to the danger of backfeeding into the mains), alongside mains pressure cold. Mixers don't work if the pressures are markedly different... it's why british kitchen mixer taps had 2 pipes up to the very tip.

        Now the regulations have been relaxed due to better check valves and mains pressurized hot water is more common, so mixers on basins will become more common.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Health and Safety

          Now the regulations have been relaxed due to better check valves and mains pressurized hot water is more common, so mixers on basins will become more common.

          No they won't because it works out very expensive. Even if the existing taps don't work, a couple of new contract grade standard taps are cheap as chips - ten quid or so per pair. To be compliant all the employer needs to do is stick a "danger, very hot water" sign up.

          Regulations about backflow are essentially unchanged for donkeys years, and cheap backflow preventers likewise have been available for decades. There are indeed very good themostatically limited mixers, but if you fit a decent grade limiting mixer valve (eg a Pegler TMV) that's forty of fifty quid, the actual monobloc mixer tap is then another fifty quid, and then you've got the backflow valves and plumbing in. All in you won't have change out of a couple of hundred quid per basin, and that's assuming that you don't need to replace the basin to fit a monobloc mixer.

          If you're ripping out the entire bog there's a chance it might get rebuilt properly, but as a retrofit, not much chance.

      2. Robin Bradshaw

        Why Britain Uses Separate Hot and Cold Taps

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfHgUu_8KgA

      3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: Health and Safety

        "What is it with British plumbing and not having mixer taps?"

        It's related to mixing and possible back feeding of potentially unsafe water from header tanks which used to be common in UK houses. Less so now, but not gone completely. A similar effect to outdoor, open to the elements *drinking water" reservoirs in the US. The no mixer taps rule was to avoid supplying potentially contaminated water to your neighbours if your valve broke due a dead rat in the header tank. Still, I suppose that's a little better than being supplied actual certified drinking water which is definitely contaminated with bird shit :-p

        1. Lars Silver badge
          Happy

          Re: Health and Safety

          As has been pointed out it's sometimes possible to learn something from ElReg comments, I agree and I now feel I am an expert on Victorian plumbing. Mission accompliced. Some Brits apparently not amused as mixer taps are for the wussy only.

          This world takes water out of lakes and rivers, the fish shit, and those pesky birds, still it's apparently better with fish and shit than no fish and shit.

          This reminds me of an old woman who kept her (mixer?) tap running day and night because "running water is cleaner". That only stopped when her downstairs neighbours started to wonder what was going on with their ceilings.

          I get perfectly clean water from a 80m deep drilled whole in the granite by my summer cottage, but should I test for radon too. So many questions, where the taps are just a distraction.

    2. Dig

      Re: Health and Safety

      No need to have hot water at all it just encourages bacteria growth. To Kill bacteria you would probably need water hot enough to blister the skin. Use soap with cold water and not only will you kill the germs but also reduce your carbon footprint.

      The hot water probably has to be that hot to stop germs forming in the tank. They could use a local electric water heater by the sink which could be set cooler though.

    3. Lars Silver badge
      Happy

      Re: Health and Safety

      Mixer taps is the solution like in the rest of the world, to be honest I would not believe this had I not spent time in the UK. One has to assume mixer taps are not invented in the UK and thus foreign and not good at all.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Health and Safety

        Yep and they work just fine even if the inputs are a bit random, people just get good at quickly adjusting them! No need for insanely complex thermostatic ones, please, this isn't some kind of perfectly adjusted heating system for delicate orchids!

    4. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge

      Re: Health and Safety

      It is health and safety, in that hot water must be stored above 60°C in order to pasteurise it.

      On the other hand it's not health and safety, because you shouldn't have water coming out of taps at more than 45°C.

      I think the lack of mixer taps in the past is a legacy of people putting the plug into the sink, and filling it up to wash their hands in. Whereas there are often no plugs now, because most people wash hands under running taps.

      So we now use more mixer taps, or TMVs (thermostatic mixing valves) on the hot.

      However, if you want to kill germs on your hands in the few seconds they're under the hot tap, then you'd need to do it under water that was above 65-70°C. Even at 60°C, if memory serves, it takes a minute or two to kill the bugs. Don't try this at home though - unless you fancy serious burns. From memory, again, it takes about a minute to get burnt at 50°C, but only a second at 60°C.

      That's why we use soap, which is what's actually doing the cleaning. The warm water is only there to make it feel nicer.

      1. Lars Silver badge
        Happy

        Re: Health and Safety

        @ I ain't Spartacus

        What you properly described can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_heating

        What I did not know is that there is indeed a reason not to use a mixer tap, sometimes, in the UK, as described in that YouTube story provided among the comments by Robin Bradshaw "Why Britain Uses Separate Hot and Cold Taps"

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfHgUu_8KgA

        And that again is mentioned in the Wiki like this:

        "Gravity-fed system

        Where a space-heating water boiler is employed, the traditional arrangement in the UK is to use boiler-heated (primary) water to heat potable (secondary) water contained in a cylindrical vessel (usually made of copper)—which is supplied from a cold water storage vessel or container, usually in the roof space of the building. This produces a fairly steady supply of DHW (Domestic Hot Water) at low static pressure head but usually with a good flow. In most other parts of the world, water heating appliances do not use a cold water storage vessel or container, but heat water at pressures close to that of the incoming mains water supply.".

        So it's indeed a very British "oddity" and impossible in a country with a winter and it's hard to believe that there could be any advantage what so ever from such a system

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Dirty Toilets

    "I think at least three times a week I am walking into a toilet and finding the floor soaking."

    They should learn to stop pissin' and shittin' on the floor then.

    Dirty basts.

    1. Dig

      Re: Dirty Toilets

      Yeah they should take a leaf out of welsh call centre staff. At least they use the bin

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x453CYKGjj8&ab_channel=BBC

      1. Destroy All Monsters Silver badge

        Re: Dirty Toilets

        Is this for real!

      2. VinceH
        Pint

        Re: Dirty Toilets

        "We haven't got a company policy on shitting in the bins. Something we've obviously overlooked and, um, we need to rectumfy that one."

        Give that man a pint!

  4. Chris King

    BYOD

    Bring Your Own... Descaler ?

  5. Magani
    Paris Hilton

    "Whats (sic) your favourite Kardashian?"

    How about 'None of the above'?

    Does anyone with more grey cells than an amoeba actually care?

    Paris, obviously.

    1. TRT Silver badge

      Re: "Whats (sic) your favourite Kardashian?"

      Gul Madred. Those were two of the best episodes ever.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: "Whats (sic) your favourite Kardashian?"

      Personally I think they are some kind of elaborate insult to real Armenians in general who IME are very into education, languages, business and so on...

      1. TRT Silver badge

        Re: "Whats (sic) your favourite Kardashian?"

        My ex-wife is part Armenian. So IME they are very into living off my back, wasting time thinking about "crown chakras" and getting hysterically paranoid about everything. The only other Armenian I know was a cover secretary where I work, and she was into telling anyone who stayed in the office more than a minute the entire story of the Armenian genocide whether they'd heard it before or not. Lovely lady, very in your face. Had that same weird blue-black hair my ex does. Ended up working in the Department of War Studies.

  6. Down not across

    Healthy veggie brekkie

    'Healthy Veggie' wanted to see some healthy eating choices "in ALL of our canteens" adding there were no healthy breakfast options in one of the canteens. "Are there any plans to change that?"

    "Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Breakfast will no longer be served."

    More seriously, there is always the option of eating breakfast before you leave for work...

    1. TheProf
      Devil

      Re: Healthy veggie brekkie

      Bloody moaning vegetable eaters. Whine whine whine. Everything's so unfair.

      Every tried to get a bacon sandwich in a veggie cafe? Now who's restricting other peoples choices?

      1. d3vy

        Re: Healthy veggie brekkie

        "Every tried to get a bacon sandwich in a veggie cafe? Now who's restricting other peoples choices"

        I don't care if you're a vegan... bring me a suckling pig this instant.

  7. Colin Millar

    Plus ca change

    I see Telewest are still just as shit as ever.

    1. Not That Andrew

      Re: Plus ca change

      Not just Telewest, NTHELL remember. 2 remarkably crap companies, even more crap after the rebranding

      1. Danny 14

        Re: Plus ca change

        Wight telecom and smallworld cable too. Smallworld cable was exceptional before VM bought them out. Support staff actually supported AND knew their technical stuff (24/7 call centre too, usually the techies late at night )

        1. Vometia Munro Silver badge

          Re: Plus ca change

          "Wight telecom and smallworld cable too. Smallworld cable was exceptional before VM bought them out. Support staff actually supported AND knew their technical stuff (24/7 call centre too, usually the techies late at night )"

          Much the same with Cambridge Cable. I always found them to be a really nice company to deal with and never really appreciated the dark mutterings about how awful NTL were... until they bought them out. :(

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hmm

    Is it all still IBM behind the scenes or did they lose the contract yonks ago?

  9. Arctic fox
    Joke

    Re: "Keeping up with the Kardashians"

    I have noticed on a number of previous threads connected to articles where the Kardashians are mentioned that there appears to be a certain confusion between that family and the Cardassians from Deep Space 9. As a public service I offer the following clarification. A Cardassian would be deeply offended if you asked him to "walk with the Prophets" whilst a Kardashian would always be delighted if you asked them to "walk with the profits".

    1. IsJustabloke
      Trollface

      Re: "Keeping up with the Kardashians"

      @Arctic fox

      I think a Cardassian would be deeply offended if you were to mistake him for a Kardashian

  10. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Hook Office?

    Well as they seem to have been trying to get rid of that white elephant for the last 10 years the state of the bogs does not surprise me one jot.

    The For Sale sign seems to be a permanent fixture outside every time I go past the place.

    If I worked there then that is hardly inspiration that the job they do will be there the day after tonorrow let alone in a years time.

  11. Banksy

    Competitive pooing

    Why do offices and other places still build those cubicles like you used to get in schools? You know, the ones that are constructed of MDF and have massive gaps at the floor and ceiling that let you hear everything in the next cubicle? I like to go in for a nice relaxing dump rather than trying to go faster than the guy in the next cubicle.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Competitive pooing

      "go faster"

      Think you answered your own question. A defecating employee is an unproductive employee.

      1. You aint sin me, roit
        Coat

        Re: Competitive pooing

        Unless they are "laying cables"...

  12. Anonymous IV

    Smelly toilets, smokers and the Kardishians

    Surely the headline is wrong, and should read: Smelly toilets, smokers and the Kardoshians ?

    (used in the sense: "British, informal [mass noun] Money.")

  13. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    God luck to the VIrgin crew

    You're on a steep downhill from here on out. LG bought our regional cable provider a few years back, and since then everything has become a mot more expensive, and a lot lower grade. And that includes the TV offering.

  14. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Seriously guys ! Keep dreaming.

    Despite all the media bluster and glorious comments at the time of LG takever, did anyone seriosuly believe that this would result in a better and cheaper service. Shame on you if you believed the hype.

    Yanks only see numbers and ROI. Mega mergers or takeovers are never in the consumers' interest. Its the golden rule , that after the event, the investors/ buyers will look for investement returns and how is it all going to be funded?

    And we all pay for fancy football rights, whether we like the game or not.

  15. tin 2

    SFDC

    LOL @ we are investing in SFDC. That's you completely fucked then!

  16. ArthurKinnell
    Linux

    Not sure

    I know they are using MicroFocus (Novell) Filr for file storage and sharing capabilities.

    Tux because the best file servers are always Linux.

  17. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    VM bosses Q&A are just like any other businesses, a tick box exercise to justify whatever daft ISO they sign up too and put a piece of scrap on the wall to impress visitors and foo foo the employees off with BS, PR and lies !

  18. pig

    Given up

    I have been with Cable for over 20 years.

    Cable Company>Telewest>Virgin.

    I've now cancelled and given up.

    Sick of being lied to.

    Last time I moved they said they would transfer my deal (£30 a month, no tie in).

    Instead I got that for 6 months then it went up.

    Had to pay to cancel the contract too. FFS.

    They lie. Their sales staff are incentivised I presume? So like Vodafone will say ANYTHING on the phone to you, then surprise you with the bill later.

    No benefit for loyal customers either. As usual you get treated worse for having paid a bill each month for 20 years then a new customer who may hop every year.

    I used to take their crap, because I needed the better internet. But now there are genuine other options for fast broadband I don't have to.

    So they have had the last of my money.

    If they treat the rest of their customers the same I predict a hard next ten years for them. The one advantage they had is their fibre broadband, but that is wilting away.

    If they have to rely on their customer service to retain customers they are in serious trouble.

  19. andy 103

    Virgin = Sheer incompetence

    I use Virgin fibre. The "product" (i.e. fibre internet access) is great, but their customer service is crap. Overall I dislike them.

    Here are just a few examples of where they've annoyed me less than 12 months into using their service:

    1. Gave me one of those deals where the first 12 months are cheaper than the last 6 (18 month contract). Fine. But then they screw up the billing every month and are charging me at the higher rate, i.e. the last 6 months rate. So I have to phone them up - every month - and get some weird (dodgy) adjustments made to retrospectively correct my bill.

    2. The service went down (to be fair, the first and only time in 10 months). I checked the support site on 4g and it said there was a local issue. 2 days later not fixed. So I phoned them up and all they did was read out what was on the support site with no further details.

    3. The calls are fecking expensive, if you've got a landline and don't use one of their "bundles". Like -"phoning Australia in the 1970s" - kind of expensive.

    4. They sent a letter about a random price increase. There was no justification given in the letter as to why. Instead they put 6 bullet points OF THINGS I ALREADY HAD before the price went up.

    Their product is ok. But their customer service and pricing structure needs a serious re-think.

  20. d3vy

    Nice choice of car...

    Like his choice of car, I'd do the same and get the spoiler taken off... I'd go one further and get it de-badged.

    Though I'd encourage him to go for the CLA45, its just so much nicer and not much more money...

    1. d3vy

      Re: Nice choice of car...

      Ohh, a downvote for saying I like a car.

      Magic.

  21. Alistair
    Windows

    VM/LibGlob

    I'm on t'other side of the pond, and over here Vm is an MVNO as I recall.

    One thing I've learned in my time, it applies to interviews with future employers, stores, restaurants, pretty much any operation you interact with;

    Anywhere you go. As a customer, or a possible future employee. Use the bathrooms. Check out the TP. The quality thereof will express the organization's respect for you.

    This will also tell you the mindset of the company in general.

    1. hplasm
      Thumb Up

      Re: VM/LibGlob

      "Check out the TP."

      Word.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: VM/LibGlob

      "Check out the TP"

      I am the great cornholio... I need TP... TP form my bung hole.

    3. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: VM/LibGlob

      "Anywhere you go. As a customer, or a possible future employee. Use the bathrooms. Check out the TP. The quality thereof will express the organization's respect for you.

      This will also tell you the mindset of the company in general."

      Yup!" Moto branded motorway service ("US - freeway rest areas") put *single ply* bog rolls in the bogs. A very, very THIN *single ply*. Avoid like the plague if visiting, or make sure you pull off a long enough piece to fold it over at least three times!

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    So what I take away from this...

    Is that absolutely nothing has changed since the ntl takeover of Cable & Wireless sixteen years ago.

    The toilets at the Manchester office were always absolutely disgusting,

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