back to article Google enlists Microsoft VoIP partner to unseat Office 365+Skype

Google's going after Office 365 and Skype users in a cloud telephony partnership with Microsoft VoIP ally RingCentral. The search giant and RingCentral on Wednesday announced RingCentral Office Google Edition, a package letting you make online calls from within Google's Apps. Apps are integrated using WebRTC, the real-time …

  1. Kevin McMurtrie Silver badge

    Wait, what?

    Why all the bundling and integration if it's using plain WebRTC and SIP? This is what makes Project Fi a bit odd - a very simple form of personal communication being re-imagined by a large data collection and advertising agency so that it now requires special hardware and software.

    1. TheVogon

      Re: Wait, what?

      For $35 + $12 a month you can get Office 365 E5 + PSTN which includes a local copy of a full version of MS Office and imo is a far more complete and enterprise grade solution.

  2. Dadmin

    You're almost right

    The problem isn't that O356 is a better product, it's what you put in the last two paragraphs; there is an entrenched segment of the market that will always think they need the O365 solution, because: training. I've used both products, and for work or home Google Docs, and related services do a great job. I don't have to purchase any licenses with it, and it works across many devices. Having used O365/Skype at my last gig I can tell you this; O365 goes down, or it's otherwise unavailable, more often that you would hope. It fails to work with non-Windows browsers in little, but meaningful ways. Like it would never EVER remember my settings for Keep Me Logged In, or whatever they called it. It just lacked anything that made me want to use it instead of the desktop apps, and we had no choice in the matter. The Exchange client worked well otherwise, and had many of the same setups as it's desktop counterpart, but it was no replacement for a desktop client. Maybe 75% replacement, 25% annoyance. With my Google services the connectivity was rock solid and hardly ever had a glitch. Again, it's free. How can they do that?! I guess it's not so free if you spring for the enterprisey appliance/services, but at a consumer level does O365 have freeness built in? Let me check...nope, looks like it's subscription only, and not just a sign up with your email for free service like the Google apps/services. Plus, why the stingy Skype 60 minutes per month? Didn't Skype used to be free, for however long you were in the session? Just little shitty things like that make me avoid O365.

    So, for entrenched sites that can't bear to learn any different apps, other than when their current app upgrades and forced the issue, O365 is your man. But, from a usability standpoint, and a cost standpoint, I get everything I need from the Googly apps, and I even have free Apple versions of some of that stuff to fall back on, if I don't use a LibreOffice, or other Open Office variant. Cloud is never an issue, since you can download your docs to your device, if you prefer. So, I can see why O365 is succeeding, but it's just old momentum that will probably suffer at the hands of the GWX madness that has struck Redmond these past few months. Hopefully a shift to more modern computing systems on the desktop, fueled by bad W10 experiences, will be in the future, or not. If you knew this you could make some money, couldn't you? And the segmentation of the O365 clients will help beef up the compatibility with non-Edge browsers, you would hope. Time will tell. It is known.

    1. a_yank_lurker

      Re: You're almost right

      The PHBs running most companies believe "you will never get fired for buying Microsoft". Before it was IBM and it will be someone else in the future. The PHBs are afraid of anything different, new, possibly better, etc.

    2. TheVogon

      Re: You're almost right

      "but at a consumer level does O365 have freeness built in"

      It does - see https://products.office.com/en-US/office-online/documents-spreadsheets-presentations-office-online

    3. Phil_Evans

      Re: You're almost right

      " for entrenched sites that can't bear to learn any different apps, other than when their current app upgrades and forced the issue, O365 is your man"

      Don't you mean "for most folk who have grown up with...etc". O365 is almost completely familiar to On-prem Office users, so of course they are 'entrenched'. They know what they know. It's also a gateway to feature heaven for on-prem users, something Gapps just don't do.

      I personally like Google Apps and use it exclusively for my personal stuff (ie, not work) because I don't come across it anywhere else in the workplace.

      I just thought I would point to a reality check in part of your viewpoint. The rest is so unbalanced, it's difficult to know where to start. Oh ant time is telling, that's the whole point of the headline.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: You're almost right

        I love those comments where to make their attack convincing, the writer says "I use X and like it" before launching into savage criticism of the same product that they supposedly like. Anyone who has used both O365 and Google apps for any length of time would recognise that Google apps are significantly better in just about every way, with none of the annoyances of O365 in its current incarnation.

        The fact you describe the comment as "so unbalanced" exposes you as someone who is being economical with the truth. Or perhaps hasn't used Google apps on a daily basis for more than 3 weeks.

        "Feature heaven" can also be described as "complexity hell" as in the long run such feature bloat will render O365 unsustainable. Cloud is about simplicity and reliability.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: You're almost right

          "Anyone who has used both O365 and Google apps for any length of time would recognise that Google apps are significantly better in just about every way"

          ahem, not they wouldn't, I don't and millions others don't.

    4. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      MS bashing

      You could do better by getting some of your facts right. Just one example "why the stingy Skype 60 minutes per month? Didn't Skype used to be free, for however long you were in the session?" Skype to Skype is FREE, these minutes are in relation to calling phone numbers which can cost a lot of money.

      As for the rest, I've also used both Office and Gdocs for years and Google is really poor on compatability. I may not need loads of features but I sure as hell don't want to spend ages reformatting stuff. Office online, whatever the product label, it just works and it also can be free, as in beer. I also don't trust the Google bastards in respect of privacy, I am just a number to be exploited.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    In my world of micro-businesses and private customers, Libre Office is king. Horses for courses?

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Between the lines

    A half true spin article. This is just a partnership being sold as something strategic for Google.

    Come on, your expect us to believe that Google is worried about Microsoft and does this? Have you seen the pricing? Surely you don't go to all the effort to create WebRTC and then partner with a small telco that makes you more money than you from the deal and gives you nothing.

    BTW, Skype for business is rubbish as a replacement for the telephone. I haven't got time to qualify this, flames from happy users only please.

    1. The Original Steve

      Re: Between the lines

      Shame you didn't have time to qualify your opinion on Skype for Business being "rubbish as a replacement for the telephone".

      I can't comment on the cloudy version, but on premise is, in my view an excellent VoIP platform. I've deployed it with HA and DR for a large college (10k+ students), a large facilities management firm (3k staff, business is based around telephony and they work 24x7) and literally this week finished off a HA SfB which we're hosting in our "cloud" for a large private aviation firm.

      Oh - and of course we use it as our phone system too.

      Very little need to drop to a CLI, very simple deployment model, loads of features, integration with Exchange is excellent. Always better to deploy with SIP trunks than needing SBC's and ISDN30 breakout's in my view.

      If you have a well managed network (e.g QoS and not massively over contended) and someone's done a decent job of installing and configuring SfB then I'm not sure what there is to dislike from a technical point of view.

      The three clients I mentioned above all moved to SfB in the last 18 months and continue to give feedback on how much their users love it and how much easier it is to administer compared to "normal" phone systems.

      Need someone to review your deployment reply back and I'll see if we can do a special El Reg Reader Discount! ;)

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Between the lines

        I still have never met happy users of Skype for business. Only people regretting it or wanting move away.

        I believe your story but that doesn't sway me. I do believe that somewhere there are happy users. What surprises me is how many of the horror stories are in this area.

        A good implementation is obviously rare, you perhaps know what you are doing. The fact it depends on good implementations might be the problem and why I think it is rubbish.

        1. TheVogon

          Re: Between the lines

          "I still have never met happy users of Skype for business. Only people regretting it or wanting move away."

          Quite the reverse here, and one of my previous job titles was head of UC for a Telco across multiple platforms (Cisco, Lync, Avaya).

          Especially for those who have used Cisco's conglomerated mess previously - Lync / Skype is a far better integrated product...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Between the lines

            "Lync / Skype is a far better integrated product..."

            Only if you are a stuck with Windows. With anything else, SfB is a royal PITA.

            1. TheVogon

              Re: Between the lines

              "Only if you are a stuck with Windows. With anything else, SfB is a royal PITA"

              The market share of any other OS on the enterprise desktop is close to zero.

              If you want to go down the path no one else uses, expect to be having to fight your way through...

              1. Anonymous Coward
                Anonymous Coward

                Re: Between the lines

                "The market share of any other OS on the enterprise desktop is close to zero."

                Sadly you are correct there. It's a shame there's so little diversity as it's not healthy for the industry.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Google is failing because it is rubbish

    The management are pushing Google at work, but people are still using MS Office, which is still on workstations, because it interfaces with all the other software.

    Google's DOCs don't work very well with collaboration, as we have people fighting with filters... two people working on the same document at the same time, fight with different filter views.

    The UK dictionary is a disgrace and Google were informed about this last year.

    Their spreadsheet system lacks many of the features critical to the finance department.

    The hangouts, which started as a lean, mean system, is now so bandwidth/processor heavy and packed with useless features, that it does not befit business usage.

    There is a lack of proper archiving systems for people who leave the organisation; they go and the account gets deleted... and the docs they authored go to.

    Want me to keep going?

    1. Potemkine Silver badge

      Re: Google is failing because it is rubbish

      When you remove a user account on Google Apps, you can transfer the ownerships of the user's drive to someone else, so I don't understand how you can loose documents?

      Also, if you want archiving tools, there's Google Vault for you.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Google is failing because it is rubbish

        You lose documents because when the account is deleted, they're deleted also. Plus, there isn't always a clear successor.. each document has to be gone through to determine who should take ownership of which one.

        This has to be done because there aren't any shared file spaces where documents can belong to a group.

        1. Potemkine Silver badge

          Re: Google is failing because it is rubbish

          At first glance: create a dedicated 'virtual' user to store these documents and transfer him the ownership of the documents you want to keep. Et voilà.

          Something else? ^^

    2. TheVogon

      Re: Google is failing because it is rubbish

      "The management are pushing Google at work"

      I have seen several adverts for resources for migrations from Google Apps to O365, but none the other way. Good luck with that!

      Having used and been involved in implementations of both; Google Apps just isn't in the same league - and in a number of ways isn't as good or as complete an enterprise grade solution. Hence why Microsoft are wiping the floor with them.

      Also O365 is far cheaper - Google Apps is £80 a year for the fully featured version versus £60 a year for O365 Enterprise E1 which is roughly the equivalent package from Microsoft.

  6. Potemkine Silver badge

    Google Apps vs Office 365

    Having used as Office365 as Google Apps in a corporate environment, I strongly vote in favor of Google Apps: much less expensive, a very good administration interface, very easy tools to use for users (forms and blogs are very handy!), good reporting, a very reactive support.

    And the most important: no 'ribbons' in their apps! ^^

  7. Roland6 Silver badge

    "Sixty-one per cent of organizations have existing or planned Office 365 deployments"

    A meaningless statistic as no context is given.

    Remember MS pushed an O365 subscription as the upgrade to Office standalone for SMB's a few years back. So given their numbers, they are likely to influence any statistic based simply on the number of organisations.

    Additionally, with the exception of Office 365 Enterprise E1, all subscriptions include the fully installed client applications. Hence, does the figure actually represent the number of organisations with O365 subscriptions? Because I suspect many have 'deployed' O365 but only use the standalone client applications.

  8. Missing Semicolon Silver badge
    FAIL

    Office 365 OneDrive

    is a pile of poo.

    When Dropbox and Google Drive "just work", Onedrive for business (which is actually Groove) frequently gets stuck on syncing.

    Also, the office apps when run on your PC insist on saving your docs to Sharepoint (wot? I thought it was Groove!) which takes AGES, instead of saving to the local OneDrive folder and syncing later.

    Son has it for school, and the chances of actually being able to save his homework to OneDrive and pick it up in class seems to be less than 50% most of the time.

    It might all have a pretty blue cloud logo, but it's actually a mash-up of Sharepoint,Groove, Lync and Exchange. None of which were originally designed to work with each other.

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