back to article UK cops trial £250k drone squadron

Surrey and Sussex Police have received almost £250k of Police Innovation Fund cash to acquire four UAVs as part of the "largest trial of police drones in England and Wales". The forces will augment their existing capability of one Aeryon SkyRanger - operating at Gatwick since 2014 - with four more examples of the Canadian-built …

  1. James 51
    Childcatcher

    Cheaper than a helicopter and quieter too. Thought it's only a matter of time before incidents like this aren't news worthy anymore.

    (We need a pull icon.)

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

      So 50k quid a piece they get:

      50 minute flight time, Only 1080p, IR camera option, 5km range, 44 mph speed, 2.4kg

      vs consumer drone for 700 quid:

      28 minutes flight time, 4K video, 5km range, Object tracking, Collision avoidance, Fast change batteries, 44 mph speed, 1.2 KG

      I trust any anti-drone laws will also apply to the police, only more so because this is a big heavy drone without all the collision avoidance tech. When they're flying above crowds will ordinary civilians be allowed to fly over the same crowds with their lighter better safer drones??

      1. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

        Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

        The consumer Drone will probably have a very hackable connection between the ground and the UAV. One would hope that the POD version uses something more akin to military spec (frequency hopping maybe?) radio to connect the operater and the UAV.

        After all once these things become common I'm pretty sure that the crims will go out on a job equipped with 'drone' scanners and disabling tech.

        1. Adam 52 Silver badge

          Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

          "once these things become common I'm pretty sure that the crims will go out on a job equipped with 'drone' scanners and disabling tech."

          From a policing perspective this might be a good thing. Easy conviction for going equipped or WTA violations.

          Trouble is most prolific burglars know this and so don't carry the tools of the trade with them.

        2. Cynic_999

          Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

          I do not expect police R/C to be any more difficult to jam than hobbyist R/C radios, which have routinely used spread-spectrum for some time. You no longer need to ensure that every R/C pilot in the area is using a different frequency for that reason. The medium & top-end hobbyist quads will return to home and land if they lose radio comms.

          To legally fly a drone over crowds etc., the operator must have permission, which is given only to pilots who have passed a "driving test".

        3. JaitcH
          Meh

          Frequency hopping / spread spectrum has lost it's charm

          Frequency hopping / spread spectrum, be they Direct Sequence Spread Spectrum (DSSS) or Frequency Hopping Spread Spectrum (FHSS), benefits have long been overcome by SDR (Software Defined Radio).

          A popular brand is the over-priced Futaba. Futaba and Airtronics use FHSS but only the Futaba FASST system has the best of both worlds because it is not only FHSS but also DSSS.

          All are very susceptible to jamming which is why off-standard frequencies are more reliable.

      2. phuzz Silver badge
        Thumb Up

        Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

        More money for a less capable product? Sounds like a typical government procurement project is bang on track then.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

        As a side note, I am free to dare question the spending choices of the police because I don't live in the UK.

        In future when you're in the UK, with Theresa May and her "police modernization" snooperbase law, then there will be nothing stopping the police from investigating criticism of themselves as though they were crimes. No independent controls on their demand for access to the private data, no judicial process.

        You won't get to challenge their fishing expedition of your private data because it will be legal and uncontrolled.

        So watch what you say about the men in blue to keep yourself safe. "post anonymously' means nothing if the police can pull up the internet history of every commentard to elReg.

        Quarter of a million quid for 5 drones? Seriously?

        1. Adam 52 Silver badge

          Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

          That 250k will include training, support and a huge chunk of risk assessment and liability insurance.

          It also gives you a rugged drone with field servicable parts, better software and encrypted comms; important for an operational tool rather than a toy.

          Give the Police some credit, they might know more about policing than you (although direct entry will change that).

          Police helicopters are currently excluded from some CAA rules, notably low flying.

          Also talking about the Police and Theresa May as one entity is a bit like combining Larry Ellison and Richard Stallman into one.

      4. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

        When they're flying above crowds will ordinary civilians be allowed to fly over the same crowds with their lighter better safer drones??

        I think we may be heading for drone wars soon - protesters fighting against surveillance drones with their own :(.

      5. Peter Simpson 1
        Thumb Up

        Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

        For that price, they had better come with a large flashing blue light and a yellow and blue checked paint scheme.

      6. JaitcH
        FAIL

        Re: 1080p drone for 50,000 pounds each?

        The full specs are here <www.dtwc.com/sites/default/files/datasheet/Datron_Unmanned-Solutions.pdf> and they are optimistic at best.

        Up to 6.2 miles WiFi? But the specs will make most Plods feel warm and fuzzy.

        Let's hope no one jams the GPS or WiFi - my employer's products, sold only in non-aligned countries (with the US)), use off-standard frequencies for control, as well as high-power (6 watt) ground laser beacons.

        They would be better off with a £1,000 odd Phantom 4 with Two Extra Batteries and Phantom Backpack but the politics are not good as they are made in China.

  2. ChunkyMonkey
    Happy

    I so wish that they were like the helmet chopper in the picture.

    1. Fred Flintstone Gold badge

      I actually want to compliment El Reg on that one - beautiful job :)

    2. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
      Happy

      That's not a drone you fool. That's Sergeant Detritus' thinking hat.

  3. Mr Dogshit
    Headmaster

    There is no such verb as "to trial"

    Something is either "on trial" or it is "being tried".

    1. frank ly
      Facepalm

      Re: There is no such verb as "to trial"

      From oxforddictionaries.com, available at an internet near you:

      verb (trials, trialling, trialled; US trials, trialing, trialed)

      1 [with object] Test (something, especially a new product) to assess its suitability or performance: 'teachers all over the UK are trialling the materials'

      (The world changes and we must keep up with it or become lost, or annoyed, or both.)

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: There is no such verb as "to trial"

        "spilt" instead of "spilled" stills sound wrong though. More like a type of wheat for bread making.

  4. Christoph
    Mushroom

    Lewes?

    "Lewes Operations Command Search and Operations Planning"

    Will they be using this for surveillance of Lewes Bonfire? And if so, how does it respond to an 8 inch mortar up the jacksie?

    1. Gordon 10
      Mushroom

      Re: Lewes?

      Shouts for help from its Reaper big brother

      1. I ain't Spartacus Gold badge
        Happy

        Re: Lewes?

        I'm not sure I'd want to take on the Lewes bonfire societies with just reapers. You'd need at least the SAS and some armoured infantry, with a bit of tactical air support thrown in.

        1. Mark 85

          Re: Lewes?

          with a bit of tactical air support thrown in.

          Air superiority or ground attack? F-18 or A-10?

    2. Mr_Blister
      Black Helicopters

      Re: Lewes?

      Now then, now then what 'ave we 'ere? A comedian are we sir? Makng lewd remarks about Lewes? Tut tut, it its not Jacksie it is Banksy! Now where is my wall cleaner! :D

  5. Pauluss
    Happy

    The first one, shown as a helmet is the model which is being deployed, the second one with four blades is the predecessor.

    At least that is what I hope.

  6. localzuk Silver badge

    Expensive

    Why such expensive machines? Surely they could get some off the shelf consumer models, and upgrade them (for secure transmission/control)? It wouldn't cost £49k to do that, that's for sure!

    They'd be able to have a heck of a lot more of them if they did that!

  7. breakfast Silver badge
    Thumb Up

    Putting the COP into Quadcopter.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The utlimate model

    Human carrying electric helicopter with 18 rotors

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/35987842

    Caveat. The BBC video page was ok on Firefox 45.0.1 this morning - but is no longer working for me after Firefox updated to 45.0.2. Coincidence?

  9. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    1080P Video

    So what will they do with the video and images that the camera on these devices will capture?

    Will they be used for 'Blanket' (fishing expeditions) public surveillance or for specific target/s and operations?

    What rights do the citizens of Surrey and Sussex have that will ensure that video and images are not retained indefinitely?

    What provisions will there be to ensure that the Surrey and Sussex police (Are they Forces or Services?) do not sell the video and images to TV productions companies? Or Newspapers/magazines etc?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: 1080P Video

      Just think - they could webcast their own live footage of raids on houses of people like Cliff Richard.

  10. martinusher Silver badge

    An important lesson

    There was an escape by a couple of prisoners from the Orange County jail some months ago. They got out due to a combination of circumstances but lack of surveillance cameras at various places along the escapee's route helped. So it was thought a good idea to install cameras.

    Cue the American equivalent of sucking air through the teeth and "Well, missus (the sheriff's a lady), its a big job that, cost yer a couple of million and take a year or so to do". You know the spiel. So what's a lady to do? She goes down to Costco, whips out her credit card and buys a system, cameras and recorders for $700, brings it back to the jail and gets the building services people to hook it up. A week later its instrumental in catching an assault -- that's right, it paid for itself in less than a week.

    These drones are a rip off. The modern specification quadcopter is quite incredible -- features are added weekly, it seems, with the latest and greatest being person tracking (its supposed to follow you as you ski off that cliff or something). There will be a bit of waffle about 'safety' and 'security' but it really is just that, waffle.

    (Remember "BOWMAN"? It was a UK all singing / all dancing military communications system that went to Afghanistan only to find it didn't work. The acronym became "Better Off With Map And Nokia" to the squaddies.)

  11. Nigel Steward

    Here's an August 2012 quotation to a police force in the USA $100k + taxes for a Pro camera:-

    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/12/Aeryon-bid.pdf.pdf

    I wonder what their new Police Commissioner will have to say about this.

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