back to article nbn special: See the FTTN and HFC cabinets coming to your street

Last week, The Register was invited on a tour of new installations comprising part of Australia's national broadband network (NBN). nbn, which is building the NBN, paid for an airfare, buses and lunch. nbn also provided some of the photos in the video below, which shows key pieces of the NBN. You'll see a phone exchange …

  1. glen waverley
    Happy

    Good work Simon

    Since you asked for a respoonse: Good presentation, Simon. I've never seen the various bits of kit that get mentioned, so this helped me. The nodes are fairly big units aren't they? They won't easily fit on the footpath in inner city streets, I think. And will take up a fair bit of the nature strip in leafier suburbs. That might cause a few complaints.

    Particularly liked the goldilocks comment re semi-rural places getting the best stuff. Weird how the technology fits in with reality on the ground.

    More of this sort of multi-media thing, please! Especially where it adds to the written words.

  2. Paul K

    Good way to see the physical kit

    Definitely worth doing again. Clarified for me what some of the different bits are, and why different connection types will be used depending on location.

  3. Tannin

    Lost the plot

    Simon, you have really lost the plot on this topic? Why?

    Example: "You'll also learn why some homes will get fibre-to-the-premises at massive expense while others miss out."

    Why did you write that? You know that there is no "massive expense" involved in a true fibre connection; you know that the "massive expense" is an entirely artifical pretend "expense" cooked up to make the Fraudband network look cost-effective and sensible, you know that the actual expense of a true fibre network is little or no more than that of the Fraudband network in the short term, and less in the medium term because the real fibre connection is cheaper to maintain and won't have to be torn up and replaced the way the Fraudband links will, and you know that El Reg readers are way too smart and way too tech-savvy to fall for this ridiculous spiel .... so why write it?

    I used to admire and enjoy your work. Now I'm forced, however reluctantly, to doubt the veracity of all your other work as well - stuff I used to just take as gospel truith because I thought you told it straight and knew your stuff.

    I was wrong. Sorry.

    1. Simon Sharwood, Reg APAC Editor (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: Lost the plot

      Tony,

      the piece reports what I was told. There's more detail here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/17/nbn_shifts_the_conversation_to_copper_upgrades/

      And FWIW I think you are misunderstanding the piece.

      It's the semi-rural premises that cost a lot. Digging a very long trench costs a lot. Meatspace is messy.

      I don't *know* that there's been a plot to falsify the expense of FTTP. If you can show me reliable, credible sources that support your argument, I'll gladly consider them. And correct the record if I am wrong.

      Simon.

      1. Pompous Git Silver badge

        Re: Lost the plot

        Digging a very long trench costs a lot.

        About 10 years ago, friend of mine in rural NSW built about that far from three neighbours. They were connected to the electricity grid. He was quoted something north of $40,000 for an aerial connection and they cost a shitload less than u/g connections.

      2. Tannin

        Re: Lost the plot

        Cheers Simon, thanks for replying.

        As we al know, politicians (and their servants in utilities, who have no real choice about it) love to pretend that a FTTN network is vastly cheaper than an all-fibre network, which of course it isn't. It is somewhat cheaper in the short term (estimates vary a lot but if you wanted to say around 20% I'd be happy enough to accept that as a working figure) but of course much dearer over the medium term (because it will have to be replaced with fibre sooner or later anyway).

        The point here is that, having decided on a (not very) cheap FTTN network for a given suburb, they then offer individual true fibre connections at a huge added cost to the consumer, and cite this cost (typically several thousand dollars) as the "cost difference" between copper and fibre for the last kilometre - which of course it is not. This in turn is the "justification" for installing an inferior technology.

        In reality, of course, the four figure "extra cost" does not reflect the difference between fibre and FTTN, it reflects the cost of installing a single, special-purpose link for just one customer. Nearly all of that "extra cost" has nothing to do with the link being fibre all-through or fibre plus copper, it has to do with the expense of doing a custom install, and it would be every bit as high if the custom service used wire, string, or well-trained hamsters instead of fibre optic cable.

        It is highly misleading to talk about the "huge cost" of fibre connections when in fact, they cost about the same as FTTN ones.

        Disclaimer: no sour grapes here. I'm perfectly happy with my new(ish) fibre connection, but my old HFC connection was quite sufficient to meet my modest needs. I just don't like seeing politicians' lies parroted unchallenged in what is supposed to be a technical publication.

        1. Simon Sharwood, Reg APAC Editor (Written by Reg staff)

          Re: Re: Lost the plot

          Cheers Tony,

          if I parroted anyone's lies, it was nbn's, not a politician's.

          In the longer piece I linked to, I query the logic of the copper remediation fund - so it's not like I am swallowing the FTTN story.

          I get that a single FTTP connection can drag the average connection cost up, thereby making FTTP look expensive compared to FTTN. And therefore providing false justification for FTTN.

          I'm not sure that's happened - will do some analysis when time permits. Happy to be pointed in the direction of good data. Data matters - lots of feelpinions in this debate.

          Ongoing cost of operations/maintenance is tricky. nbn says the copper is in good shape and feels it is fit for use a generation or two past VDSL without replacement, or with possible supplanting by fibre to the kerb. Bill Morrow said this in front of 15 journos. I know that copper maintenance costs are high. Whether the construction cost of FTTP and lower initial maintenance costs would be cheaper than wearing higher copper maintenance, I don't know. Again, good data welcome.

          Long story short: I've reported, as faithfully as I can, what happened on one day, noting that it was a media event and that nbn was therefore on safe ground and its best behaviour. We'll keep going on this topic, which is enormous and complex. If you or other readers can help with expertise or data that will advance our knowledge of the story, please do so.

          Simon

        2. Mark Exclamation

          Re: Lost the plot

          There are plenty of suburbs in Australia (a big country) where the house is >50 metres from the road (mine is 100 metres, and there are plenty in my one suburb), so trying to call "massive extra cost" as just a "single special-purpose link for just one customer" is well wide of the mark. We don't all live in units or matchbox-size suburbs.

    2. Pompous Git Silver badge

      Re: Lost the plot

      Simon, you have really lost the plot on this topic? Why?

      Excellent piece of journalism I thought. Very informative. Thanks Simon. More please...

  4. OzBob

    What do I think?

    Error 2035, thats what I think.

    1. JudeKay (Written by Reg staff)

      Re: What do I think?

      You should be able to view now, but which browser/OS were you using when you got the #2035, OzBob?

      1. JudeKay (Written by Reg staff)

        Re: Re: What do I think?

        Update: Our tech team has fixed the problem. Please drop us a line at corrections@theregister.co.uk if you experience any more issues.

        1. OzBob

          Re: What do I think?

          Browser = Mozilla. Sorted now, very interesting article. Thanks for response.

  5. aberglas

    Secrecy is the problem

    Everything about the NBN is secret. What does "Copper in better shape" actually mean? What are the estimated costs to run Fibre to a simple home? There should be a spreadsheet somewhere with enough details that we can review it and understand, and monitor the result.

    So all we get is vague statements that amount to "Trust the NBN, we know what we are doing, and we will send the government the bill so you do not have to pay for it."

    That said, it is pretty easy to get a rough estimate of how much it would cost to dig up someone's yard and lay a new (fibre) cable and get it into an ordinary suburban house and attach a new modem to it. I'd say $1,000 to $5,000 per house. (Two men for half a day if there are no complications.) Times maybe 5 million houses. Say. It would be good to see some of that type of back-of-the-envelope analysis somewhere.

  6. Colin Tree

    Nice sandwiches

    This sounded like a feel good story to placate the general public.

    Ah, is that an election coming.

    We've got months of pre-election bullshit coming our way.

    Simon it is your job to be the bullshit filter, ask the hard, probing questions

    and give us the real story, that is what a real journalist does.

    Or are you just a hack, with your nose in the trough.

    Nice sandwiches for lunch ?

  7. Philstix

    Informative and particularly relevant

    Thanks for the article.

    I live in Redland Bay and this is the most information I've seen about local NBN developments.

    At the moment I have slow ADSL due to the rubbish internet here. The copper cables are very old and in terrible condition - a Telstra technician had to repair a phone cable outside my house a couple of months ago, and the wires were so corroded they kept breaking in his hands. The local Telstra exchange is, as you mentioned, already full, and it has been for many years. I could get overpriced ADSL2 from Telstra, but there is no alternative as Telstra has consistently refused to upgrade the exchange to allow it's competitors in. (Surprise, surprise.) Fifteen minutes drive away, in Cleveland, fast ADSL2 is available for about half the price I pay for ADSL.

    I still have no idea what sort of plans and prices will be available once the NBN arrives (probably using FTTN in my area - hopefully they will upgrade the copper in the process.)

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