back to article Nest: It's no longer all about you. Now it can recognize your kids, too

Smart-home poster child Nest has joined the maturing market for automated smart-tech products by offering "family accounts." In other words, its systems will now be able to recognize and react to multiple people through different accounts. While this may seem like an obvious move, a significant number of smart-home companies …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Netflix button

    I make a point of not buying technology with strong dependencies.

    A music system with an ipod dock. Already obsolete.

    Devices with physical facebook or twitter buttons. Both services are now passé, and in their decline phase.

    Remote controls with physical buttons for Netflix, spotify, amazon, hulu, rdio. Rdio went bust. Others will follow.

    Which brings me to IoT tied to the phone. You know that phones are going to change enough within the next 5 years to obsolete the whole flipping lot.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Netflix button

      While I agree with most of your post (that is the luddite in me coming to the surface) your bit about the iPod dock is wrong.

      My other half has a device with such a dock. A simple adapter connects up her new shiny-shiny iPhone 6s (company issue) and plays music just like it always has done (sadly as here taste is Muzak is quite different to mine). I regularly switch it from iPod to DAB and Planet Rock. She tolerates it for a while but goes back to the iPod and her more Radio 2 like music selection.

      IoT is not coming to our home. We both agree on that.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Netflix button

        > A simple adapter

        So not wrong actually. It doesn't just slot in like the glossy ads in the iPods heyday. Now you need a fugly adapter. Another generation and there won't be an adapter.

        But that's just one piece of gear. IoT is being pitched as this whole home system. All proprietary, all mutually incompatible.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Netflix button

      "A music system with an ipod dock. Already obsolete."

      I don't want to sound smug, but those screamed "ephemeral tat" to me even at the time.

      That whole "designed to work specifically with an iPod" thing looked incredibly tacky to me even then. Even if the device came with the usual inputs, the fact that the iPod dock took pride of place as the cart-before-the-horse raison d'etre of the overpriced music system (or whatever) just screamed built-around-and-tied-to-the-device-du-jour naffness that was going to look a hundred times naffer when that connector- or at least the versions of the iPod the system supported- was obsolete and unused. (#)

      Except it wouldn't, because the thing would have been consigned to the attic along with the rest ot the out-of-date tat within a couple of years.

      I'd say that the designed-specifically-for-iPod (or iPhone) mentality thing now seems- in this post-Android, Bluetooth era- to be reminiscent of another era despite only having ended five or so years ago. But don't worry- this generation has its own cheesy, ephemeral, tied-to-the-manufacturer crap, it's just somewhat changed its form. (Hint; if it's tied to a proprietary cloud service the manufacturers can- and will- turn off in five years time when they get bored of it... then it's crap).

      (#) Remember that even at the time (i.e. long before the dock was replaced altogether) the compatibility of such devices was generally far from guaranteed with iPods that came out after the versions they were designed for.

  2. allthecoolshortnamesweretaken

    "Zuli has since added multiple user accounts, and the product's usefulness has rocketed as a result."

    No, it hasn't. 0 * 10 = 0.

    No need to expand on that either, see original 'Zuli smart lightbulb' post. It's all in there already.

    It's friday and count down to beer o'clock starts NOW, so have a nice weekend everybody.

    1. Dan 55 Silver badge
      WTF?

      How does it tie the people in the room with their account anyway, do you have to walk around the house waving your smartphone or smartwatch?

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Found the original Zuli review on El Reg and you do, in fact, need to do that.

        What a load of gubbins.

      2. Boothy

        Quote: "How does it tie the people in the room with their account anyway, do you have to walk around the house waving your smartphone or smartwatch?"

        I was wondering that too, once home (much to by gf's annoyance sometimes) my phone gets put down somewhere, typically the kitchen or the bedroom, and doesn't get touched again until I need to use it.

        Unless the system has sensors in each room, it's not going to be much use to me.

        1. Rich 11

          But on the plus side, lights automatically switching off when I left the room would stop my mum coming to stay.

    2. e^iπ+1=0

      multiple user accounts

      ... sounds great until you imagine a visitor to this smart home needs an account in order to be not left in the dark when the host leaves the room.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge
        Joke

        Re: multiple user accounts

        "a visitor to this smart home needs an account"

        Just inject them with an RFID tag on the first visit and they're good to go. Just don't visit too many people houses or you'll look like a heroin junky.

  3. john Jones

    Nest working in a mesh ?? not yet #fail

    Now how about all the smart devices talk to each other using I dont know thread ?

    whens that going to work ?

    having to have the internet connected all the time when they could just form a "mesh" would actually be useful...

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Think of the children (sorry)

    Oh great, so they can now track the kids too?

    No f*cking way. The only acceptable tech for this sort of application is a locally installed resource, not one that hands off all your movement to a third party (didn't want to say Bluetooth because that's not really that great).

    What's more, I'm not convinced this should hang off the Net either, at least not in a directly interactive fashion, until it is properly secured. The last thing you want is a man in the man enquiring if the premises are vacant and can be burgled without needing a weapon.

    I like Nest, it's a great idea and if implemented correctly very helpful in energy conservation. But it's that everlasting marketing "we need to add more sh*t" complex that spoils it.

    1. Anonymous Cow Herder

      Re: Think of the children (sorry)

      I don't mind the kids being tracked, but I do object to buying them a phone. Can't I just get them "chipped" like the cats ?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Think of the children (sorry)

        Can't I just get them "chipped" like the cats ?

        Apparently that is OK. It's only when you take then to the vet to be neutered that you'll get into trouble..

  5. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Mushroom

    Not under my roof you won't

    the ecosystem of smart locks, thermostats, lights, doorbells, cameras and so on all starting to work with one another

    That's a clusterfuck waiting to happen, but in somebody else's house, not mine.

    1. John Robson Silver badge

      Re: Not under my roof you won't

      @Dan 55

      Actually having those things working together is quite nice - but it doesn't require any external connectivity.

      Open the door at night and have the lights come on...

      A delivery man rings the doorbell, and your phone rings so you can talk to them, despite being at the school gate/shop down the road...

      The issue is external connectivity, not that things can work together...

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Not under my roof you won't

        It's "quite nice", in that it offers an iota of convenience and a quick isn't-that-cool moment. Unfortunately it costs a small fortune and opens a gaping security and privacy hole. Sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. Still, your money, your risk - just make sure you program the automatic household ordering system to keep you stocked up on hankies for when the inevitable occurs.

        1. John Robson Silver badge

          Re: Not under my roof you won't

          There's no need for it to be cripplingly expensive - I have a rasPi which runs as a security camera (and associated IR light), and controls (visible) lighting and secure access to my garage (rather nice when it's wet and dark).

          Functions which logically hang together, and can be easily run by a very low power and low cost system.

          There is an scp based data uplink to a hosting account under my control, so that security footage isn't lost in the event of an intelligent thief...

          The security hole needs someone to break my VPN, then break my SSH key into the Pi - I reckon by that point they can figure out which pins to toggle on their own...

          The reward is fairly low - one garage with some tagged cycles...

          OTOH a commercial cloud based system has a much higher reward - Look I can see when any of these 100k people are out and unlock their door. Easy.

          I'd like to run some digitally controlled TRVs and have that all handled by another RasPi.... But that needs to wait for a little while...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Not under my roof you won't

            @John, I'd agree that your own, custom designed system will be a harder nut to crack, but the key issue here is that we're talking about volume produced products which are given to people who don't understand the very basics of security, usually because they're Joe Average - it's only us with our warped and twisted minds that immediately spot the inherent problems :).

            If such products and services don't come with a sensible default security model you're talking mass exposure, and I sincerely hope that any company trying to pull a VTech ("our terms say it's not safe so it's not our fault") will be told by a Court and insurances that that one won't play.

            It's the 21st century, if companies still develop kit as if hackers and other malicious idiots don't exist I think it's time they get to face the consequences.

            1. John Robson Silver badge

              Re: Not under my roof you won't

              "@John, I'd agree that your own, custom designed system will be a harder nut to crack, but the key issue here is that we're talking about volume produced products which are given to people who don't understand the very basics of security, usually because they're Joe Average - it's only us with our warped and twisted minds that immediately spot the inherent problems :)."

              Yes - the custom nature makes it much easier - but actually the internal security doesn't need to be that complex. It's the remote access that's harder.

              You could have matching internal security all of these things - and actually you could have fairly matching *external* security...

              The value of the attack on each of these is still far lower than the cloud solution.

              Obvioulsy having strong internal seciurity makes life better still, but reducing the value of each target makes a significant difference.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Not under my roof you won't

          @Credas; "Sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should."

          Please cease contradicting the dogma of the entire modern tech industry.

          If that sort of thinking takes off, you're going to undermine the whole rationale being used to push the Internet of Things, and generally make it much harder to sell crap, over-complicated gadgets with blue LEDs (#) that rely on proprietary servers in The Cloud (##) that'll be rendered useless in five years time when those servers get turned off as the $8.74 yearly cost of keeping them running isn't worth it when they'd rather sell more ephemeral tat to Boys' Toys consuming tossers.

          (#) Seriously, hasn't the novelty surrounding blue LED indicators on electrical equipment worn off yet? They've been in mass use for well over a decade, people still seem to find them new and shiny. (Nothing against blue LEDs in principle- what I hate is the gratuitous overuse of over-bright, pure blue LED indicators and illumination, which is both unpleasant and tacky as hell).

          (##) "The Cloud" being the the favoured term used to sell to- and by- people who don't really understand that much about technology but like to think they're at the cutting edge of it by buying the latest security-hole, milk-you-on-associated-online-services gadget b******t.

  6. Blofeld's Cat
    Coat

    Hmm...

    Presumably the version for teenagers will include a setting so they can automatically leave every light on in the house, the heating right up and the TV on, when they go out.

    Not that I would have ever done that...

  7. hplasm
    Facepalm

    What is the obsession

    with frobnicating your thermostat from a distance? It's on the damn wall- get up and change it.

    If you're not in- don't mess with it. Heating has had timers since the days of clockwork.

    Or is it that Snowflakes might melt of they come home to the wrong temperature...

    1. Lusty

      Re: What is the obsession

      Everyone else doesn't have the same repetitive lifestyle you do. Timers don't work for me. At all. I am not back at 6pm every day, I'm not even back every day. Sometimes I'm not back every week. Sometimes I don't leave the house for a few days as I work from home. When I'm away in a hotel all week a timer would simply be burning gas. Using the local control the house would be cold when I got home and take several hours to properly warm through (yes, the air does get to 20 degrees in under an hour, but the rest of my possessions remain cold).

      So, before I leave work a few hours from home I will knock up the heating to comfort temperature. When I return home the house is warm, and I've not been wasting gas and money all week. When I work from home I don't sit shivering until I remember the timer has switched off the heat.

      Some people use technology to make their lives easier. If you can't understand that this may not be the site for you.

      1. hplasm
        Flame

        Re: What is the obsession

        You missed the troll icon. You know nothing about me, but now I can guess that you love shiny.

        Some people use technology to make their lives easier.. Some people are lazy- I understand that.

        I could guess that you are one, but I won't.

        Now sod off.

        1. death&taxes

          Re: What is the obsession

          @hplasm

          Well I guess we all now know that you write patronising twaddle, but are only really being ironic.

          Of course there are many people with slightly more complicated lives who welcome the opportunity to take more control of how much energy they waste heating empty houses, weekday flats, holiday homes etc etc.

          But what really gets me are those people who refuse to build a fire to make a cup of tea and lazily boil a kettle.

          1. hplasm
            IT Angle

            Re: What is the obsession

            "...Of course there are many people with slightly more complicated lives"

            Ah- I see you fall into the snowflake category as well.

            1. death&taxes

              Re: What is the obsession

              @hplasm So we know one more thing about you: smug but meaningless.

              1. hplasm
                Paris Hilton

                Re: What is the obsession

                "So we know one more thing about you: smug but meaningless."

                Aren't you going to tell the class what it is you know, not how you feel about it? Or are you not as sure as your handle might suggest?

            2. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: What is the obsession

              Ah- I see you fall into the snowflake category as well.

              Well, we can't all be 9 to 5 accountants. Some of us actually have a job with a degree of variation. We generally don't have potted plants either unless they only need water every month or so.

              1. jake Silver badge

                Re: What is the obsession

                To me, this entire "obsession" thread is pretty funny. All y'all are applying bandaids (elastoplast to you brits) to a problem that is easily fixable. Simple answer: Proper insulation, and a properly sized & installed GSHP. We're at 70F 24/365.25 (except the machineroom/museum/mausoleum/morgue, at 64F). Our HVAC bills sq-ft are lower than any of our neighbors ... Just keep it the same temp, all the time, and you aren't wasting energy heating it up or cooling it down. Sounds counter intuitive, perhaps, but it works.

                Yes, I know, not everybody has this option. IMO,after living with it these last 15 years, it should be part of the UBC for all new housing.

                (Truth be told, we have toe-kick heaters in the bathrooms, under the kitchen sinks, and in the mud and laundry rooms. SWMBO insisted. They run off hot water from the GSHP.)

                1. Lusty

                  Re: What is the obsession

                  @jake my house is a constant 21C when I'm home too. Keeping it at that temperature for two weeks when I'm away is irresponsible. I realise America doesn't believe in science/global warming but the some of us like to avoid needlessly burning fossil fuels where possible even if only to save money. I'd imagine gas is cheaper where you are than the UK too. No idea what you call has since that's what you call petrol. When I say gas I mean the one that actually is a gas rather than a liquid. Sorry this post wasn't intentionally anti American I don't even know if you are from there I just find translation to standard English difficult sometimes as a Brit.

                  1. jake Silver badge

                    @Lusty (was: Re: What is the obsession

                    "needlessly burning fossil fuels"

                    My GSHP is solar powered. It really doesn't take much electricity. Occasionally over the last 15 years, my itty-bitty backup hydro plant[0] has kept the battery charged in cloudy weather.

                    "I just find translation to standard English difficult sometimes as a Brit."

                    As a Yank with an A-level in English[1], I find your use of written (type(o)d) English absolutely atrocious. Kindly learn proper sentence structure, punctuation and capitalization before attempting to comment on same. Ta.

                    [0] Small automotive alternator charging several 8D lead acid "fire engine batteries", spun by a small trickle of water (~30 gallons/minute) from one of my springs. The water carries on to the herb garden.

                    [1] Sat in Yorkshire nearly 40 years ago ... Gawd/ess, I'm getting old.

                    1. Lusty

                      Re: @Lusty (was: What is the obsession

                      What I meant was that I wasn't asking to be awkward - I just didn't know what Americans call what we call gas.

                      GSHP is all well and good if you have some ground to source heat from. A very large proportion of the UK use gas central heating which does burn fossil fuels. While many may be able to take the extremely expensive option of rip and replace, most of us prefer to make our existing systems more efficient since it's easy and doesn't have a huge up front investment.

        2. Lusty

          Re: What is the obsession

          "You know nothing about me"

          No, I don't know anything about you. Except that you were too narrow minded to see a real use case for this technology and that you assumed I am lazy because I use it. I know that you assumed everyone lives their lives in the same way that you do where a regular timer (and by implication routine) is sufficient for controlling the heating. You still seem to be assuming I am lazy despite my clearly explaining a different use-case where I have no idea when there will be people in the house and am often exhausted when I get home so appreciate that it's warm enough to sleep when I get there.

          Not sure where the aggression is coming from, presumably new information hurts your head and gives you the grumps?

          1. hplasm

            Re: What is the obsession

            The aggression comes from your assumption that your life is so important and much busier and better than mine or anyone else that doesn't share your joy at this gewgaw. It seems to certainly be making you hot under the collar. Perhaps your fancy nest-o-stat is not as great as you may think?

            You don't have to sod off- that was me being grumpy, I concede.

            1. Lusty

              Re: What is the obsession

              I never said I was important or busier or even better, although I'm thinking it now given your various posts. I didn't even say I had a Nest although your wording smacks of jealousy.

              What I actually said was my life is less regimented than yours. I don't have a routine and so find the remote aspect of my Hive system extremely useful. I'm not hot under the collar either, just a bit baffled why you're so annoyed about a technology you've never even tried.

      2. Martin an gof Silver badge

        Re: What is the obsession

        Using the local control the house would be cold when I got home and take several hours to properly warm through

        Ok, perhaps not a clockwork timer but the electronic ones (£20 upwards) all have "holiday" settings and "setback" temperatures. I bet even your lifestyle is more predictable than you imply - when you are going to be away for a few days you probably know which day you will be back. As you are collecting your things together you hit the "holiday" button for 2, 3, 4 (or whatever) days and the thing goes to "setback" and ignores the usual schedule for the period specified.

        Otherwise, just keep your jumper on for an hour. Saves even more gas.

        If working from home, toddle up to the unit and push the temperature up for a bit (the unit I linked can over-ride either until the next programmed time, for a specified length of time or indefinitely). We have our timer set as if we were out at work all day but there's often one of us at home due to working part-time. I can remember maybe two or three occasions since 2016 started when I've felt the need to add heat during the day. Once the sun's up the house very rarely gets below 16 or 17C and I don't tend to be sat, freezing, at the computer; if I'm home I'm usually running about doing "things". I also own jumpers.

        Setback temperatures are great, but you probably know that. Much better than pure "off", you can set them as you see fit and they won't let the house get below the set temperature during the "off" period. This helps avoid freezing pipes if your house is prone to that sort of thing. When I lived on my own I had it set to 12C and the heating only ever came on on the very coldest nights - and this in a very badly built 1980s ex-council house. Nowadays the setback is set to 16C and makes a difference on some freezing nights in our not-quite-as-badly-built-and-soon-to-be-demolished 1960s house.

        Look, I'm no luddite and I do like the occasional gadget, but I really, really don't see how most of this stuff is going to make our lives better in the short term nor even, really, in the long term given the likelihood of obsolescence by being abandoned. A cheap programmable 'stat could easily last 20 years or more and costs a set of AAs to run every couple of years. I would bet good money that in 20 years the Nest or Hive that is bought today will have long since had to have been "upgraded".

        M.

        1. death&taxes

          Re: What is the obsession

          @Martin an gof

          It appears you really do have a simple life. Congratulations, and good on you for coming up with the 'wear a jumper because the house is cold' trick.

          Apart from faffing around in the boiler cupboard changing settings on a crappy little timer unit, try changing a 'holiday' setting when your trip suddenly gets extended.

          1. BebopWeBop

            Re: What is the obsession

            Well I do use a NEST - and very nice it is to, with significantly lower fuel bills in the quarter we have had it (although how much of that is because we didn't work hard enough to tune the existing timer).

            What is certainly true is that the existing timer - installed when we bought the house and with multiple settings for 7 days a week (no hols though) was a royal pain in the arse to change and then reset times and temperatures. The NEST s a joy to use in comparison.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What is the obsession

          Look, I'm no luddite and I do like the occasional gadget, but I really, really don't see how most of this stuff is going to make our lives better in the short term nor even, really, in the long term given the likelihood of obsolescence by being abandoned

          The main benefit of the Nest thermostat is a higher energy efficiency by analysing a lifestyle and adjusting accordingly, also taking into account thermal mass of the home. Timer based kit is OK, but the Nest is a bit more flexible, figures out that you're actually not at home today by itself and generally keeps tweaking itself to stay current. In that context it is a smarter programmable thermostat which is by itself already enough.

          Where I would agree with you is this relentless fascination with having everything on remote control and online, and, for the truly insane, "shared" so the thing tells everyone on Twitter that you're back home (it doesn't, but I reckon they had to bludgeon some marketing people to death to prevent them suggesting something like that in public).

        3. Lusty

          Re: What is the obsession

          "when you are going to be away for a few days you probably know which day you will be back"

          No, please don't assume things. I very rarely know when I am returning since the return time and date is based on completion of work, not on booking time in. I also enjoy sailing, the return from which is often based on weather events rather than a schedule.

      3. Yugguy

        Re: What is the obsession

        @Lusty -regarding this: "Using the local control the house would be cold when I got home and take several hours to properly warm through (yes, the air does get to 20 degrees in under an hour, but the rest of my possessions remain cold)."

        I think what you need to spend money on is not smart timers and all that bollocks but some insulation for your house as my house can get from 13 to 19 in about 20 minutes. And I don't quite understand your possessions comment. Why do they need to be "warm"?

        1. Lusty

          Re: What is the obsession

          @Yugguy my house is plenty insulated, and the air does warm up in under an hour. I don't agree that 19 degrees is warm though, my preference is warmer than that on a cold winter evening. Things like floors, sofas, chairs, wine, beds etc. being cold is not my preference. I don't apologise for this. Technology allows ME to get MY house the way I like it. If you disagree then fine but that doesn't mean I shouldn't use the technology to make myself happier.

          1. Yugguy

            Re: What is the obsession

            Cold floors??? Fuck me we invented slippers about 10000 years ago.

            1. Lusty

              Re: What is the obsession

              @yugguy I bet it's dead romantic in your house with slippers, scarves and hats. In my house I wear what makes me comfortable. I'm not a fan of slippers, I am a fan of shorts though. I'm a big fan of lingerie and get to see it far more often when the lady in question isn't shivering!

              Yes, slippers are one solution to the cold. A warm house is another solution. Each to their own, the money I save while not heating an empty house offsets my unnecessarily warm house while I'm there. If I was in every day I might buy slippers and do what everyone else seems to do. I could have bought some nice unicorn fur slippers for the cost of my hive too ;)

      4. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: What is the obsession

        Don't you generally know when you leave the house that you're not going to be back that day if you're on a work trip? You'd have to adjust the thermostat anyway, only before you leave instead of after. Not too difficult...

        1. death&taxes

          Re: What is the obsession

          Duh! Obviously not, which is what this is about (for the people who find it useful).

          And anyway maybe we'd not be totally happy rummaging around in the boiler cupboard every time we have a schedule change, leave alone forgetting to change the settings (yet again) before we leave.

          1. Dan 55 Silver badge

            Re: What is the obsession

            Are heating thermostats always in such inaccessible places? Never in any house I've lived in.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: What is the obsession

          Don't you generally know when you leave the house that you're not going to be back that day if you're on a work trip? You'd have to adjust the thermostat anyway, only before you leave instead of after. Not too difficult...

          Nope. Part of my business is dealing with the emergencies of clients before they become full blown crisis, and depending on the trouble they got themselves in that can take anything from a few well placed phone calls to full on emergency handling with staffed ops room, redundant comms, 24/7 catering and enough strong coffee to keep a whole town awake.

          It's not a job for everyone..

    2. AndrueC Silver badge
      Meh

      Re: What is the obsession

      with frobnicating your thermostat from a distance?

      For most people it's probably useless. Most houses take an hour or two to get up to temperature on a cold day. Relying on remote control to tell the heating to come on when you're on your way back from work or the shops is usually a none-starter. Luckily most people lead such predictable lives that a timer oriented approach (like the one most homes have had for at least half a century) works well.

      Still, for some people it might have advantages. Being linked to a calendar app could be quite handy for those few people living 'random' lives. And I suppose that if your calendar app is in fact how you organise everything in your life then a system that can control the heating based off it might be useful.

  8. GrumpyOldMan

    I have a clever, very bright low-power light that knows I'm home and lights up when I get to the front door so I can find the right key in the dark. It's an LED light with a gadget called a PIR sensor and cost me £3 from B&Q in a cheapo sale. I have a solar-powered one at the back that cost me all of 12 quid and works a treat. State-of-the-ark tech that does what I need.

    So no (id)IoT (did you see what I did there?) needed.

    Simples.

    Happy Friday everyone! The weekend aproacheth...

    1. Martin Summers Silver badge

      Now that's just too bloody sensible.

  9. Richard Wharram

    Already doing this

    My Nest already switches on and off depending on whether the phones of the wife and I are in or out. We use the third-party Skylark app at the minute. It's not 100% right and sometimes switches the heating off when we are in so I'll try this instead. However, I suspect it's more to do with our flaky wifi than the App.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Already doing this

      All to save you pressing a button on the wall?

    2. Lusty

      Re: Already doing this

      This is such a poor way to control heating. You're essentially guaranteeing to come home to a cold house, and also that you're wasting energy in the hour before leaving the house. Maybe it suits your lifestyle but I can't see the benefit. I realise that if you're very regular Google will track your movements and start predicting them, but then if that's the case a timer would surely suffice? If a timer won't work then predictive analysis surely wouldn't work either?

      1. Dan 55 Silver badge

        Re: Already doing this

        If there's a way guaranteed to waste energy in the hour before you leave the house, it's a proximity-based thermostat. You're going to have to push a button or tap a screen either way an hour before you leave.

      2. Boothy

        Re: Already doing this

        Quote "...and start predicting them, but then if that's the case a timer would surely suffice?"

        As far as I know, it's not just things like getting home at a particular time.

        It's tied to your phones GPS, it so starts to recognise if you hangout somewhere most days (e.g. the office), and what route you normally take home, and how long that typically takes. So if you head home early one day, it's knows to turn on the heat sooner, or if you are still stuck in the office, or traffic, it delays turning the heating on till it knows your on route again.

        It also works out how quickly it takes to get the house up to temperature, from it's current (unheated) temperature, so in deep winter, it would turn the heating on sooner, but as the ambient temperature goes up, so takes less effort to get up to full temperature, it reduces the heating time.

        1. AndrueC Silver badge
          Meh

          Re: Already doing this

          So if you head home early one day, it's knows to turn on the heat sooner

          The value probably depends on how early you leave and how cold the day is. If you leave work half an hour early on a cold winter's day the heating will likely already have been on for a while anyway. There's nothing most heating systems can do at that point. But granted if you decide to take the afternoon off or if it's a fairly mild day then you should see some benefit.

          It also works out how quickly it takes to get the house up to temperature, from it's current (unheated) temperature

          So does my decade old controller, though. It's called 'optimum start'.

          But on a cold day it likely puts the heating on a couple of hours before the target time. If it's started work at around 1600 in order to get the house up to temp for 1800 then nothing I do after 1600 will impact the heating system.

          So I do accept there is some value in these systems but I don't think it's worth the cost, security risks nor the possibility raised by another commentard of obsolescence.

        2. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Already doing this

          It's tied to your phones GPS, it so starts to recognise if you hangout somewhere most days (e.g. the office), and what route you normally take home, and how long that typically takes. So if you head home early one day, it's knows to turn on the heat sooner, or if you are still stuck in the office, or traffic, it delays turning the heating on till it knows your on route again.

          This. That's exactly why I won't go NEAR one of these devices. YAT (Yet Another Tracker), or at least yet another thing that wants to know where I am, and worse, it uses a service provider to handle that data so it's easy to hand it off to a 3rd party. As we started this with children, that's exactly the sort of data I do not want an uncontrolled entity have access to.

          But hey, if it floats your boat, go get it. Just don't try to convince me to get one.

          1. Richard Wharram

            Re: Already doing this

            Chill people (perhaps literally).

            I use it. You are free not to.

  10. jake Silver badge

    The question remains ...

    ... what good is all this so-called "new"[0] technology?

    I mean, seriously, how hard is it to flip on a light switch?

    [0] My decades old X10 kit does pretty much the same thing ... but nobody bought into that, either.

  11. andy 28

    conflict resolution

    so in the utopia of everything magically 'just working' how does it deal with having more than 1 person in a room if their preferences are for, say, different temperatures? Do you have to tell it who's boss? A whole hierarchy of your family?

  12. Someone_Somewhere

    This'll make hosue buying/selling interesting.

    As ever, people don't think these things through.

    Selling your home?

    iPhone 10 compatible, you say? Sorry, no sale - the family is all Android

    And how many iPhone 14 users will be willing to buy your smarthome when you can't find a working iPhone 10 for love nor money?

    You'll have to upgrade your home every five years.

    And the neighbours will be drilling and hammering all year around, /every/ year, because they all bought their smarthome kit at different times and bits of it keep needing replacing to keep up with their new phones.

    Before very much longer I figure I'm gonna have to move to Patagonia or somewhere that is obliged to maintain a degree of sanity simply because it doesn't have the money to go insane in the first place. <sigh>

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This'll make hosue buying/selling interesting.

      iPhone 10 compatible, you say? Sorry, no sale - the family is all Android

      And how many iPhone 14 users will be willing to buy your smarthome when you can't find a working iPhone 10 for love nor money?

      Built in obsolescence is not exactly reserved for Apple only (and at least you get some money back on the old hardware when you keep up). Remember WinCE? Palm? Symbian? Not to mention the fact that fragmentation doesn't exactly help to keep Android up to date either..

      1. Someone_Somewhere

        Re: This'll make hosue buying/selling interesting.

        Indeed: pick a platform (any platform) and it'll be subject to the same problem as any of the others sooner or later - Cyanogen might be better able to cope but even that will still rely upon the IoT crap being Android compatible (ish).

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