back to article San Francisco prepares to open source its voting system software

San Francisco, home of the tech startup, is trying to show its tech credentials by becoming the first city to use open source software for elections. The proposal to adopt a solution in time for the end of the current contract on January 1, 2017 reappeared at the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday when Supervisor Scott Wiener …

  1. JeffyPoooh
    Pint

    This...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI

    Using Open Source software addresses, what?, about 20% of the issues listed by Tom Scott.

    e-voting. Don't do it.

    1. Roq D. Kasba

      Re: This...

      Yes indeed, with tens of billions or more at stake, the value of a rigged election cannot be underestimated. The incentive is absolutely there.

      Open source code, excellent, so then what do you compile it with? Ok GCC. A signed version of GCC, even better. Who signed it? Etc Cetera, the problem just gets kicked and kicked but never truly perfectly guaranteed. And that's just the software.

      Off-the-shelf hardware is great - which vendor? One that is based solely in (home country) with all parts sourced from (home country)? Can you find one? And those that are still 100% within (home country) are just as succeptible to national agency interference. There's a chance of a teensy bit of extra code in the touchscreen driver to prefer one point on the screen, so that, too, has to be open sourced and verified and so does every other controller chip...

      So, as lovely as the vision is, the prize is too great to discount the risks. The prize, colouring this trajectory, is the lives, taxes and liberties of 300M people, and a huge nuclear fleet, and frankly the most attractive job for a greedy bully, should one want the gig (and see the GOP candidature and you won't have to hunt hard for a rich greedy bully crazed for power with absolutely no political or governance skills and a completely void of diplomatic ones).

      The more I think about the realities, the more I favour the pencils and paper model.

      1. cjerdonek

        Re: This...

        It will be a paper ballot system, but you still need software for things like laying out the ballot, scanning and counting the marked ballots, and running accessible devices that let voters with disabilities cast a paper ballot.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: This...

      Indeed.

      Seen to be Done Properly

      One of the most important things about a public vote is that every single member of the public can reassure themselves that it is being run properly.

      That's easy with voting booths, marking an X on a voting slip, placing it in a ballot box, seeing how it's carried seals intact to the counting centre, seeing how it's counted. There's nothing about such a system that is opaque, complex, or disputable. It's very easy for people to be very sure it's been done properly. It's also very easy for people to know when it has been cheated.

      But with any kind of e-voting system, 99.99% of the population simply cannot know for sure that it's been done properly, open source or not. That's a very unhealthy situation, and will lead to problems if there are contentious results. If the hanging chad scandal wasn't a warning I don't know what is.

      Worse, imagine if a flaw (exploited or not, it doesn't matter) is found in an e-voting system after a contentious result. What is supposed to happen then? Void the result? Let the result stand? Make it up if and when it happens?! There's no good outcome in that scenario.

      Impossible Voting

      In America in particular the complex system of votes put in place by some counties and states are barmy. Any group of politicians who introduce a series of interrelated votes for this, that and the next thing all at once have done their populations a massive disservice.

      Who was it said (of the finance industry), "Complexity is fraud."?

      Voting and the link between leaders and people

      There's plenty of upsetting articles about how the US 'establishment' is becoming increasingly disliked by the population.

      Speaking from a political science point of view, the establishment better get real, quickly. If a dissatisfied population starts thinking (knowing doesn't come into it) that the national voting system is twisted then, alas, you're only a short time away from outright pandemonium.

      This is something that politicians as a herd are very poor at spotting in advance. They tend to think "Surely we can't have got it wrong?". Hence the trouble in the EU, etc.

      Persuading a dissatisfied population that an e-vote system is clean will be very difficult. In contrast, it's far easier to be convincing when say "you got what you voted for" with a purely paper based system.

      The difference is immense. Ultimately it is up to the population to choose a governmental system. A paper vote is a way for the politicians to say "Your responsibility. You want changes, you elect different politicians". With an e-vote system such a statement can never be irrefutable, but for continued good order it kind of has to be irrefutable.

      Is it any better in the UK?

      There is some worry about the integrity of the voting system in the UK, specifically surrounding postal votes. And that's still a paper based system. There's significant pressure to do away with postal votes; there's a general deep distrust of things that cannot be seen in the voting system.

      E-votes would get nowhere.

      Moribund Political Systems

      I don't know what it is with politicians; they generally seem to think that a system for running a country that has been in place for decades or centuries cannot (and should not) be changed. It's a crazy point of view.

      For instance, what politician in the US would dare stand up and say "Ditch the constitution, lets have a Westminster style democracy" (at least that would break political deadlock)? None I'd guess, probably because it is not achievable. The US constitution practically guarantees executive and legislative inaction when difficult decisions are necessary.

      Speaking generally, if politicians find that they as a group are powerless to change their constitutional system, then they and the country have the wrong constitutional system. If they can't even make changes to how they run their own business (which is partly what a constitution is about, ultimately) then how can they make decisions on behalf of the people who elected them? What's the use of a political system that prevents decisions being taken?

      In contrast if they do have the theoretical power to make constitutional changes then they also have the power to run the country, and might then actually be able to deliver the results they promised to their electorate. It's amazing they don't recognise that more clearly...

      1. Yag

        Re: This...

        "Speaking generally, if politicians find that they as a group are powerless to change their constitutional system, then they and the country have the wrong constitutional system."

        Got a bad feeling about it. Let's imagine a group of politicians in such a case : "Hey, let's change the constitution to enforce the current oligarchic two-party system. Outright dictatorship would be too obvious after all."

        Theorically, politicians should be kept as far of constitutional changes as possible. Theorically...

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: This...

          Got a bad feeling about it. Let's imagine a group of politicians in such a case : "Hey, let's change the constitution to enforce the current oligarchic two-party system. Outright dictatorship would be too obvious after all."

          There's a big difference between being able to wield ultimate power and actually doing so. You can't do it without making it very obvious that that is what you are doing. It's a big hint to a population to take to the streets and have themselves a revolution if they don't like what is being done.

          Most democratic countries are effectively short term dictatorships anyway, it's only the US that isn't. Most such countries seem content with that. Think of it as a way of being a popular dictator where you're more or less guaranteed to peaceful retirement and a decent pension. Proper dictators don't get that luxury often.

    3. cjerdonek

      Re: This...

      FYI, the system being proposed is a paper ballot system -- not electronic voting.

      In other words, things like the paper ballot scanners and accessible voting devices would be commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) hardware running open source software.

  2. a_yank_lurker

    Proprietary Voting Software

    Somehow proprietary voting software seems like a voting scandal waiting to happen. The problem is the lack of transparency and ability to independently verify the code.

    The problem in 2000 with Florida is that the problems were statewide not just in the counties targeted by Gore. Essentially Gore was asking for special treatment of a few donkey counties while conveniently ignoring the similar problems occurred in elephant counties. One the issues was ballot design in a donkey county that was approved by the local donkey administration (a fact conveniently ignored) that supposedly stole votes from Gore to Nader.

    US politicians, a group better known for bloviating stupidity, decided that electronic voting would prevent these problems.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    if( rand() < 0.5 ) {

    print "Democrats win";

    } else {

    print "Republicans win";

    }

    1. Oengus

      if( rand() <= 1.0) {

      print "The people lose";

      } else {

      print "The people win";

      }

      FTFY

  4. Charlie Clark Silver badge

    Will it be the first in the nation to do so in 2019?

    No, because for all it's delusions, it's still only a city.

    Anyway Estonia's already done this.

  5. Graham Marsden
    Alert

    'noting that the San Francisco Bay Area is home to, among others...

    '..."Apple, Facebook, GitHub, Google, the Mozilla Foundation, Twitter and Yahoo," it notes that the city is "a natural jurisdiction to take the lead in developing and certifying an open voting system."'

    Thank you for voting, would you like to take a quick survey?

    She voted for candidate X, you'll never guess what happened next...

    Click here to tweet how you voted...

    Update your phone software now!

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Open Source <> trustworthy, that takes more

    After looking at much the work of Dr Rebecca Mercuri I cannot shake the impression that the main aim of Open Sourcing the software is to attract a form of trust that is IMHO not quite deserved.

    I would be the first to admit that the use of Open Source code is indeed a massive improvement, but it is only a first step. From there you need code eval, testing, verified builds, verified implementation on hardware that should also be open design - the whole show, end to end, must be transparent, verifiable, auditable and accountability must exist.

    And at that point you have only addresses the technology angle, there is a lot more wrong with the US voting system than just tech. This is what made Trump's distance in the polls so dangerous - when you fiddle with the figures when it's roughly 50/50 nobody will be able to tell. When someone too far ahead suddenly loses, it would raise questions.

    Hang on, didn't that happen in the UK?

    :)

  7. Howard Hanek
    Coat

    Who Needs Steel?

    Let's forge those chains electronically.

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