back to article Steve Jobs mural highlights plight of Syrian refugees

A mural of Steve Jobs has appeared on the wall of a French refugee camp in an attempt to highlight the plight of Syrian refugees. Jobs, who was himself the son of a Syrian immigrant, is depicted carrying a scruffy old bag over one shoulder and an old Apple Macintosh in his hand. The artist? None other than sharp social …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Big war

    > "...when intelligent, well-educated, well-meaning people fleeing a war zone..."

    So everywhere south and east of Europe is now a "war zone"?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Big war

      In case you haven't noticed, we're talking about Syrians here.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Big war

        Yes, let's restrict the conversation to the Syrians alone, as if there were not waves of opportunists crowding in with them.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Big war

            Apparently you never examine yourself.

            And I post here because I'm not always right, and if I'm wrong I know full well the denizens here will pin my ears back for it, but politely. At least some do. Others can't, so they attempt personal slander dressed in very sophisticated (they hope) language.

          2. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: Big war

            "they" do take our jobs and our women - case in point. If Steve was conceived out of wedlock to a Syrian mother and white American father she would probably have been disowned by her family or stoned to death.

            1. Anonymous Coward
              Anonymous Coward

              Re: "they" do take our jobs and our women

              "they" do take "our" jobs and "our" women. FTFY.

              These groupings are man made and of little value. I certainly don't want to be included with you in the same group purely because we live close to each other or have similar skin tone. As soon as these groupings stop being useful administrative constructs and start being excuses for treating people like shit, I'm not interested.

            2. dogged

              Re: Big war

              > "they" do take our jobs and our women

              If some dude from off a refugee ship takes your job and your women despite barely speaking English and not knowing anybody, you have to ask yourself exactly how shit you are that they're so much better.

              1. Ragarath

                Re: Big war

                If some dude from off a refugee ship takes your job and your women despite barely speaking English and not knowing anybody, you have to ask yourself exactly how shit you are that they're so much better.

                I think you might find the fear is more that they are willing to do the same work for less money, in some cases so much less that they are employed because of that. This is not to say they may be any less skilled but that profit is the only driving factor in a lot of businesses and if they job is getting done for less then that is the only consideration.

                1. Lamont Cranston
                  Unhappy

                  Re: "if the job is getting done for less then that is the only consideration" @Ragarath

                  This is a legitimate concern, but why does the response always have to be "let's kick out the foreigners" rather than "let's prosecute the employers who are knowingly employing those without leave to remain, and/or paying below minimum wage"?

                  Reading it back, the former is a more catchy slogan, I suppose.

            3. fishbone

              Re: Big war

              And? Who would be the transgressed and who the transgressor? Must be the same thing to you.

      2. fishbone

        Re: Big war

        I don't have to follow your rules just stay on topic, isn't that what forums are for?

    2. Turbo Beholder
      Pirate

      Re: Big war

      > So everywhere south and east of Europe is now a "war zone"?

      It's more amusing when people think the rest somehow isn't.

  2. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    It depresses me that in the 21st century we still talk about our brothers and sisters in the human race as "them", "aliens", "animals" or "illegals". You would think that they were members of an entirely different species FFS.

    The arbitrary designations imposed on us by our political overlords have become such a pervasive trait that we hardly even think about them any more.

    We *are* all the same. We just happen to live in different places.

    Help your fellow men and women, because ${DEITY} forgive us, we might need their's some day.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      All well and good...

      ...until they take your jobs, your girlfriends, your homes, your hospitals and your freedom of speech.

      Some may call that racist but these are valid arguments to consider when you try to integrate a different mindset into our own way of life.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: All well and good...

        >>>...until they take your jobs, your girlfriends, your homes, your hospitals and your freedom of speech.<<<

        Have these things happened to you? Or is this straw man scaremongering? Is this bitterness about having a black man taking the #1 job in the White House ) although in fairness he didn't so much take the hospitals as expand their accessibility). Context is everything.

        If your girlfriend left you for a Polish guy, does that tell us more about the entire Polish nation, about your former girlfriend, or about you?

        1. Boris the Cockroach Silver badge
          IT Angle

          Re: All well and good...

          Or perhaps you could speak to an east european migrant who has taken a job that could have been done by a local

          I asked

          "Why come to England?"

          "Because I love the wierd and wacky english with their strange sense of humour and their rich history, plus its the only way I can see an east european doctor since they all left my homeland to work here because you lot dont train any and pilfer medical staff from east europe to make up the short fall"

          PS all those camped at Calais are free to apply for asylum in France... its just they dont want to for some reason...

          1. Anonymous Coward
            Anonymous Coward

            Re: All well and good...

            You forgot the other one they don't say loud

            "you English give away money for doing nothing and we can work in the black economy also, so get twice as much as in our homelands"

        2. chivo243 Silver badge

          Re: All well and good...

          @AC

          Last time I checked there is no Jihad being waged by the Polish, but then again Polish is not a religion.

      2. Graham Marsden
        Facepalm

        Schrodinger's Immigrant...

        ... the one who comes over here, sponges off our benefits *and* at the same time, steals our jobs...

      3. phil dude
        WTF?

        Re: All well and good...

        There is no scientific basis for race.

        We are all human.

        P.

        1. This post has been deleted by its author

          1. phil dude
            Boffin

            Re: All well and good...

            No scientific basis for race.

            We are all born human.

            All other labels, come later...

            P.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      > "We *are* all the same."

      Physically we may all be similar, but our cultures *are* different. Are you prepared for a big hit on your (and everyone else's) standard of living? Are you prepared to see Sharia Law become your (and our) law?

      Face it, political overlords do not create culture, they are creatures of it. And some cultures are revolting in what they do to liberties of women, non-believers, apostates, etc. No, I will not accept the inferior culture of an invader just because insecure people claim all cultures are the same.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        > Are you prepared to see Sharia Law become your (and our) law?

        I'm going to get called all sorts of things by various people because of the following, but I really don't care that much.

        The world is getting smaller. Cultures are clashing. There is a war of ideas going on at the moment.

        Fortunately, for many of us in the west, particularly Europe, we are reaping the benefits of the cultural and religious renaissance that allowed us to recognise our common identities but also our bigotry, our racism and our general need to just get along. We valued trade and peace more than we valued our hatred. In England we still pay lip service to our historically brutal rivalry with the French and the Scottish, but we don't kill each other over it. We just smirk about it and move on.

        In the east, no so much. They need contact with the west to learn that it is OK to be free. It's OK for everyone to have different views without imposing them on other people. Many will bring their cultural baggage with them. Some of it will enrich us. However, much of it will have to wither and die or face the backlash. And bitter that conflict will be. It will get a lot worse before it gets better I fear.

        Freedom and tolerance will win through. It has to.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          @skelband - Along with some of their cultural baggage

          some of us will wither and violently die too. Give me some reasons why I should not pass this opportunity. Freedom and tolerance, we do have it but do they ?

        2. MyffyW Silver badge

          Ch14 - Grapes of Wrath

          "The western lands, nervous under the beginning change"

          Long before Steve Jobs, California was the scene for mass immigration. Results speak for themselves.

          Thank you Kieren McCarthy for a nuanced article.

          1. John Sanders
            Meh

            Re: Ch14 - Grapes of Wrath

            If it wasn't because California is falling apart...

          2. Danny 2

            Re: Ch14 - Grapes of Wrath

            "Long before Steve Jobs, California was the scene for mass immigration"

            Although after that, California banned US migrants from the dustbowl, setting up border guards to keep them out.

            And the whole of the US banned any migration from China using the Chinese Exclusion Act.

            I went to San Fransisco in the '80s and stayed with an elderly Scottish woman who'd just moved there from Canada. Her young relative and me were taken to the largest shopping mall we'd ever seen, with a full size ice-skating rink inside to amuse the kids. There was only one kid on it, a seven year old hispanic girl who was performing a stunningly beautiful routine. My friend and I were transfixed by the girl's skating, but the old woman glanced at her and without any self-awareness sneered, "Immigrants". California is one of the most racist states, they just disguise it better than some.

            1. lone_wolf

              Re: Ch14 - Grapes of Wrath

              "US migrants from the dustbowl", no such population, since they all were US citizens to begin with.

            2. fishbone

              Re: Ch14 - Grapes of Wrath

              Bull cookies. Sounds like Scotland or Canada had more to do with the attitude and nice job judging the old lady by the way.

        3. John Sanders
          Meh

          You need to read more

          ""The world is getting smaller. Cultures are clashing. There is a war of ideas going on at the moment.""

          There is no war of ideas, currently there is only one civilization on earth that let people live their lives: Ours, the sooner people get their heads around it the better.

          The modern world is a western invention, we made the modern world, make a list of what things do you depend on for your survival, now remove us from the picture, shocking eh?

          Have you ever thought that the more a country resembles western civilization the better they do, one simple example: North Korea vs South Korea, communist China before the communist party let people own property and do business to the China of today.

          Both China and N.Korea are dictatorship states, one resembles more a western country than the other, clue; in one people starve, in the other they don't.

          Check the middle east, other than the countries that export oil, what is their GNP? the status of their health systems, their commerce, their agriculture?

          This is what the world is, this is reality.

          ""Fortunately, for many of us in the west, particularly Europe, we are reaping the benefits of the cultural and religious renaissance that allowed us to recognise our common identities but also our bigotry, our racism and our general need to just get along.""

          What bigotry and what racism? where do you see that nowadays? are you confusing prejudice with racism? they are two different things.

          If you think that white people are welcomed anywhere because we welcome anybody in Europe you are quite mistaken.

          ""Freedom and tolerance will win through. It has to.""

          For the bad guys to win all that is required is for the good guys not to do anything, freedom and tolerance do not defend themselves nor are the default state of a society, they are privileges we had to fight for over centuries to achieve. All that can be lost in decades.

          1. Graham Marsden

            @John Sanders - Re: You need to read more

            > currently there is only one civilization on earth that let people live their lives: Ours,

            Only in comparison to others!

            > freedom and tolerance do not defend themselves nor are the default state of a society, they are privileges we had to fight for over centuries to achieve. All that can be lost in decades.

            Decades? These privileges can be lost overnight if (when!) our stupid and short-sighted political leaders decide that we should all be subject to surveillance and monitoring and be watched wherever we go and records kept of whoever we talk to and every website we visit noted because "Something Must Be Done!"(tm)

        4. Wommit

          @Skelband

          "Freedom and tolerance will win through. It has to."

          Err... No Freedom and tolerance doesn't have to win through.

          This is an example of a very badly though out comment. Optimistic, but stupid.

        5. P. Lee

          >Freedom and tolerance will win through. It has to.

          It won't. We now repudiate the religious system which gave us the values which lead to the renaissance.

          We'll continue to preach survival of the fittest and nature red in tooth and claw as the basis of reality. The more we draw from the idea that humans are merely lucky animals with higher IQs and better language skills, rather than separated from them by moral obligations, the more we will fight for the females and the food. The harder the times, the more violent we'll become. The most depressing thing about the war in Iraq wasn't that the populace was tricked into going to war, it was the fact that when they found out, they voted those responsible back into power. The killing was far away, so they just didn't care.

          Freedom? I heard today we'll now be getting "preventative detention." Its just for the terrorists of course. Until it isn't. We are building massive infrastructures to track people and control commerce. When the next repressive regime rolls around it is going to get far uglier than last time. One third of US white goods are built with prison labour and most of the prison population is Black. Three strikes legislation means you can go to jail for a long time for trivial offences. That isn't corrective or protective - that's just economics-driven slavery. Freedom? That parrot isn't dead, its just sleeping, honest guv.

          Tolerance? It seems few people seem to know what that is. We try so hard to say everyone's beliefs are equally valid, when they are clearly contradictory, that we just end up suppressing everyone who isn't politically trendy. I'd far rather have people tell me I'm wrong, but I'll be tolerated, than have them try to claim my beliefs are the same as everyone-else's but I may not express them in case I hurt someone's feelings.

          /rambling rant

        6. nijam Silver badge

          > Freedom and tolerance will win through. It has to.

          Unfortunately, though, it doesn't "have to". We'd very much like it to, but the whole of recorded history suggests the odds are against it.

      2. John Sanders
        Big Brother

        Close but no cigar.

        ""No, I will not accept the inferior culture of an invader just because insecure people claim all cultures are the same.""

        More like marxist-indoctrinated ignorants.

      3. Yugguy

        Indeed. We may all bleed the same but we dont think the same. I dont feel a cultural pressure to mutilate my daughter to keep her "chaste" for my daughter. I welcome people in need but they should know this is unacceptable here.

        Insert your predictable "daily mail reader" comments here.

    3. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      @skelband - Just for my own curiosity

      have you tried this with those jolly fellows from ISIS ? I'm just trying to find out if this kind of arguments can stop or deflect AK-47 7.62mm bullets.

    4. Turtle

      @Skelband re: Your Shallow Moralizing.

      "It depresses me that in the 21st century we still talk about our brothers and sisters in the human race as 'them', 'aliens', 'animals' or 'illegals'. "

      Even if the human race consisted solely of my "brothers or sisters" - and it doesn't, I promise you! - that still does not mean that I want, need, or should live in the same polity, society, country, or house with them.

      "The arbitrary designations imposed on us by our political overlords have become such a pervasive trait that we hardly even think about them any more."

      You are so wrong. It is FAR more often that politicians resort to racism and other particularisms because that is the easiest way to recruit their followers. Blaming this on politicians solely, or even mostly, shows a complete lack of understanding of the problem. And people grouping themselves on the basis of race, religion, geographic location, language, social strata, etc etc etc, are not "arbitrary" - some of these things have real meaning and actual importance, even if, to an outsider, some of them are borderline senseless - such as rivalries between fans of football clubs, motorcycle club, or even, you know, computer operating systems. Some of them maybe and certainly are harmless but others might not be.

      "We *are* all the same. We just happen to live in different places."

      You might think that if you spout enough of this shit it will somehow become true. It won't. Because you make another error: the error of thinking that deep down, under it all, everyone one the world is, and wants to be, a self-satisfied bourgeois moralist, like you are.

      There can be, and are, differences between cultures that are, and will remain, unbridgeable. And you will never understand this; you are too close-minded to see and admit it.

      1. alliknowisiknownowt

        Re: @Skelband re: Your Shallow Moralizing.

        Amen sir . amen .

    5. Turbo Beholder
      Alien

      > It depresses me that in the 21st century we still talk about our brothers and sisters in the human race as "them", "aliens", "animals" or "illegals".

      Really? Huh. I thought the "animals" one comes not from "brothers and sisters in the human race", but from mycoid "brothers".

      > We *are* all the same.

      Why do you stop halfway? Let's grab this one by the feelers and tow out of its hole to the light.

      Specifically, everyone is really an American in a funny hat. So they could as well change it (when it disturbs FEELINGS of the hamburger princesses), because "ONE SIZE FITS ALL"(c). They just don't do it because they don't know about how cool your hat is. Or to be mean.

  3. The Mighty Spang

    quick Pennycook, Cheyne, Barr et al!

    Got the feeling we're going to find some more test subjects you!

    http://journal.sjdm.org/15/15923a/jdm15923a.html

    Could we stencil a lottery machine next to it to give some idea about the chances of letting in the next Steve Jobs? We've let millions in (legally and otherwise) over the last 20 years and I don't think we've yet found the next Steve Jobs.

    Hopefully next he'll spray this abortion clinics. Don't abort that child! It might be the next Steve Jobs!

    We could even take the message to the terrorists... don't bomb that plane! It might contain the next Steve Jobs!

    Perhaps spray it on parliament - don't bomb that country! you might kill the next Steve Jobs!

    etc etc ad nauseum.

    (I'm sitting in the corner admiring the winner of this year's Turnip Prize BTW)

    1. John Sanders
      Holmes

      Re: quick Pennycook, Cheyne, Barr et al!

      Bansky is a petty cultural marxist, nothing else.

      Marxists love to feel good about themselves, and show how abobe they are over the unenlightened commoners, if the drawing shows anything is the fact that Bansky is an ignorant with a very superficial understanding of neither Steve Jobs origins, immigration or anything other than making beautiful graffiti.

      Trying to extract any profound meaning out of Bansky's work is futile, this drawing is no different from the one of the Little girl playing with missiles or Darth Vader holding an umbrella, it has no meaning other than the contrast.

      Bansky will keep doing these politically correct drawings as long as the press keeps making echo of them, perhaps we should ask Bansky to put his mouth where his drawings are and donate large quantities of money to housing and providing (why do we have to do that again?) for these immigrants, rather than throw political nonsense on a wall and expecting the taxpayer to pick up the pieces of his enlightenment and supposed moral superiority.

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: quick Pennycook, Cheyne, Barr et al!

        Calling someone a "cultural maxist" sounds like pretentious shite to me. It's true that it's wrong to try to extract profound meaning out of Banksy's work, but the same is true for almost any art. If you think there is such a thing as "profound meaning" you should probably go and read some philosophy instead. If there is a message of some sort in the Jobs picture it probably shouldn't be read as "we should let all the immigrants in because one of them might be the next Jobs". A saner reading might be something along the lines of "whether we end up leading the world's richest company or washed up dead on a beach depends more on the vicissitudes of fate than any inate qualities we might have". But the way you react to art is up to you; there's no correct reading.

        Anyway, to get this back to a level more approripate for The Register, I'm surprised nobody's made the point that if Bill Gates had been descended from a Syrian and Banksy had drawn Bill Gates on the wall then he'd probably get done for inciting racial hatred or something...

        1. John Sanders

          Re: quick Pennycook, Cheyne, Barr et al!

          He is a cultural Marxist,

          Jobs wasn't a Syrian, his father was, his father wasn't a refugee, Job's father was the son of a rich family, if anything he was an economic migrant, Jobs was born out of wedlock, and had abortion been legal at the time he would have been aborted as the family of the girl didn't wanted her either to marry an Arab nor her being a single mother.

          Bansky like all good Marxists uses superficial details to try to make an effect in ypur conscience, he's trying to appeal to your guts, like all good propaganda does exploits people's ignorance.

          This is a technique invented by the nazis and perfected by the Marxist soviets.

          It is fake compassion.

      2. Jagged

        Re: quick Pennycook, Cheyne, Barr et al!

        "Bansky is a petty cultural marxist, nothing else."

        - Not true, he's a hypocrite too.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Banksy - Good, I think

    Jobs - Mostly Good I think

    According to Wikipedia (the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit):

    Religion Zen Buddhism (previously Lutheran)

    So probably would not have supported suicide bombing nor slicing heads off...

    Don't know what the solution is, but I don't think it's mass asylum, nor more bombing.

    Anon, because...

    1. MiguelC Silver badge

      ...because you're an asshole, confusing religion as a belief and religion as an excuse?

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        @MiguelC - What, you never heard about

        a religious belief used as an excuse ? Back to history books, mate!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Some of the bigoted claims really astonish me. Western governments recently joined forces and were fully responsible in leveling Syria to the ground. We pushed waves and waves of "freedom fighters" to overthrow their government, and this also sanctioned "suicide bombing" and "slicing heads off" (Wikileaks email ID 1671459). It was pretty much our idea. So under what pretense do you get to blame a religion or an ethnic group for the results?

      1. John Sanders
        Holmes

        Mess

        """Some of the bigoted claims really astonish me. Western governments recently joined forces and were fully responsible in leveling Syria to the ground"""

        So it is up to the populace who struggles to meet the month's end to pick up the pieces and pay the bill for millions of hard to assimilate immigrants who will live off welfare.

        This is the responsibility of our dear leaders, a marxist-educated-influenced elite who will not have to share their neighbourhoods nor suffer any of the consequences of their enlightenment.

        An elite that think the problem is us poor idiots who fail to see their vision for a better future for us without us.

        What is the endgame here I ask? Open borders... then what? There is no chance people can assimilate into another culture with opposed views on mostly everything about life in the millions and in less than 3-5 generations.

        Meanwhile what? What is the end game?

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        It's always the west's fault, yeah right.

        "We pushed waves and waves of "freedom fighters" to overthrow their government"

        What a load of bullshit. Listen, the west's governments didn't instigate Arab Springs.

        If there wasn't enough interest from the local population to overthrow their dictorship, it wouldn't have happened.

        If it happened, it was simply bound to happen.

        The west's involvement is only limited to funding NGOs that spreads the values of freedom, democracy and human rights, amongst other things, the invention of the Internet also has a lot of to do with it but none of it are direct involvement. The west didn't send "freedom fighters" from their own country to overthrow anyone they didn't like did they? No.

        The people who rebeled were simply influenced by the western culture and government.

        The coalition now to stop the fighting by the west is only started after the civil war has been going on for way too long which has created millions of refugees that the west do not really want to deal with as well as allowed a terrorist organisation to grow far too large.

        It is people like you who keeps thinking and blaming the west's government for directly institgating civil wars and blaming everything that happens anywhere in the world on the west that are causing stupid dumbasses to think the same, and making them turn to terrorism.

        Your accusations are baseless, groundless and has no real evidence.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: It's always the west's fault, yeah right.

          I feel sorry for you if you believe even half of that tripe. Read the Wikileaks email id I posted for an overview.

  5. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Canada's new Prime Minister met the 1st batch

    Canadian PM Justin Trudeau went to Toronto airport to personally welcome the first 163 of 25,000 refugees being admitted to Canada.

    Canada is back. Just watch us.

  6. speedbird007

    Banksy's mural

    Coming down to earth, fantastic mural - how on earth did he do that with cans of spray paint?

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Banksy's mural

      Still zilch when I'm looking at something called art. But damn, the technical mastery....

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Joke

      Re: Banksy's mural

      I think it's a 4-color stencil.

    3. Danny 2

      Re: Banksy's mural

      http://www.stencilrevolution.com/tutorials/make-stencils-in-photoshop/

      Stencils are remarkably easy. Bear in mind that you should wear a face mask when painting them.

      It is tempting to fake Banksy's work now people rip out walls for lucre. And when did anyone but hairdressers and corporate graphic artists think Steve Jobs was an argument for Syrian refugees?

    4. kmac499

      Re: Banksy's mural

      Not to trivialise the plight of the Syrians and other displaced persons in the world.

      But, another interpretation of that image could Steve carrying a large Bag of Intellectual Swag.

  7. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    OK, it's not spray paint

    but he too built a multinational empire.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin#/media/File:Brodskiy%27s_Lenin.jpg

  8. Michael Thibault
    Headmaster

    "keenly observed"

    Not quite; the form the handle of the early Apple Macintoshes* took was a recess that faced rearward, just under the top of the machine--so there's no way anyone could hold one in that way i.e. without having their inner wrist and their palm facing the front of the machine, rather than the side.

    * from the 128k through the SE/30 and the Classic and Classic II (and, arguably, the Colo(u)r Classic and CCII).

    1. Tim Jenkins

      Re: "keenly observed"

      As clearly shown when SJ lifted the first one from its bag back in 1984:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B-XwPjn9YY (about 50 seconds in)

  9. Fruit and Nutcase Silver badge

    Quick, get a Doctor

    Immigrant, native or witch. I don't care. I am getting heart palpitations

    Apple is the world's most profitable company, it pays over $7bn (£4.6bn) a year in taxes

    Could pay* more, eh?

    *taxes and salaries

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Quick, get a Doctor

      it pays over $7bn (£4.6bn) a year in taxes

      Not in the UK, Ireland or Holland it dont

  10. Manolo
    Alert

    Just two points

    1) Only about 2% of the population of Syria has an academic degree...

    ... so why are certain people trying to make us believe that the refugee stream consists mainly of highly educated people who will be an enormous benefit to our economy?

    2) University diplomas sell for about fifty euros on the black market in Syria.

    1. John Sanders
      Holmes

      Re: Just two points

      Not just that,

      What do you do with 2 million people? where do you employ them?

      The vast majority of them do not speak or read/write in any of the languages of the host countries, this is illiterate people in practical terms.

      They'll have to do lesser jobs, but which jobs? Most European countries have large amounts of unemployment, and manufacturing is nowhere to be found in Europe having it all moved to Asia.

      Then there is the trend of automating everything, getting rid of people is an ongoing trend for the last 30 years.

      The current migrant wave is estimated at ~2 Million, they will be ~5 million by mid 2016 and if nothing is done ~10 by the end of 2016, where is all these people going to live and work?

      Politicians will just help themselves to our pockets, wait and see.

      This will not end well.

  11. g00se
    Joke

    "The son of a migrant from Syria."

    If there's anything likely to make me start feeling a little kippery about the issue, it will be that picture+caption

  12. Manolo
    Coat

    "well meaning people"

    "well-meaning people"

    Who in large parts believe that religious law goes above secular law, women are inferior, apostasy should be a capital offence, homosexuals thrown of high buildings, Jews are Satan, Christians are heretics and atheists really not worth living. Who might say about the Charlie Hebdo shootings "well, we don't approve of violence, but when you insult The Prophet (ymmv) you have it coming".

    Yes, we still should help them, but I don think we help them by letting them migrate here in large numbers. That is doing neither them nor us a service.

    The ones that we have had here for decades have already proven that the majority is not making much of an effort to fit in.

    I'll probably be slaughtered for being a racist and a xenophobe, so I'll get me coat.

    Mine's the one with the collected works of Voltaire in them.

    1. alliknowisiknownowt

      Re: "well meaning people"

      The best of all possible worlds

    2. Graham Marsden
      Boffin

      @Manolo - Re: "well meaning people"

      > I'll probably be slaughtered for being a racist and a xenophobe

      Or someone who believes what he sees in the media and accepts it uncritically.

      As I've mentioned in the past, I have a Muslim family living next to me. Nice people, polite, hard working, don't cause any problems and I don't have to worry about anyone diving over the wall wearing a Semtex waistcoat (usually it's their kids saying "please can we have our ball back").

      Meanwhile, for instance, thousands of Muslims marched through London last weekend calling for peace and unity and to say that they don't support Daesh, yet there was virtually *NO* coverage of this in the mainstream media!

      So, please, spare us this BS about "large parts believe that religious law goes above secular law" or that "The ones that we have had here for decades have already proven that the majority is not making much of an effort to fit in" because the ones who *do* fit in are the ones you don't even notice because they're not causing problems or they're just not a big deal to the elements of the media who want to portray them as "the enemy within" as you have been conned into believing.

      1. Turtle

        @Graham Marsden Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

        "'> I'll probably be slaughtered for being a racist and a xenophobe' Or someone who believes what he sees in the media and accepts it uncritically.'"

        As an aside, that the Muslim family next to you are nice people means nothing in the larger picture, it is an anecdote. The plural of "anecdote" is not "anecdata". Of course, if you believe in anecdotes as data, I can direct you to any number of "alternative medicine" sites, guaranteed to keep you and your family alive when faced with any form of cancer.

        Your post is an exercise in hypocrisy. Your idea seems to be that if the media would show what you want them to, then the viewing public would accept those stores uncritically. Apparently, "uncritical acceptance of the media" is only acceptable when you approve of the moral of the story which is being uncritically accepted.

        Just as an example, how do you know what any of those people at the Muslim demonstration actually believed? Were there any, do you think, that possibly went in order to give people like you the impression that are more Muslims against Daesh than there actually are? Do you think that that's even possible? And can we assume that many, or even the majority, of Muslims who didn't attend this rally do support Daesh? Or do assumptions only acceptable when they can serve as "anecdata" in your favor?

        And what percentage of anti-Western Muslims amongst all Muslims in the UK would it take to make an unacceptable security nightmare, and waves of terrorist violence? Hint: the answer is far, far less than 100%. Even if the majority of Muslims are not inclined towards violence there are some who are. You don't seem to realize that even if the percentage is very small, a "small percentage" of a large number of people can still be another "large number of people". That's a real problem.

        Some people "uncritically accept" what the media conveys. Some people accept whatever stories they find it necessary to contrive. Or whatever anecdata is close to hand.

        Your attitude shows that you do not to have any great interest in, or respect for, facts; and some of those people at the demonstration might be more like you than you realize - were you to have some understanding of what you really think. But you might not have such an understanding; most moralists don't.

        1. Graham Marsden
          Facepalm

          Re: @Graham Marsden @Manolo - "well meaning people"

          Oh dear, Turtle. You've been posting on El Reg long enough to have read posts of mine where I point out Straw Man Fallacies, so *why* do you base your arguments on several of them?

          Yes, Turtle, I am *SURE* there were "secret Jihadis" going along in that march chortling up their sleeves "Hah! We will fool the stupid Westerners into thinking more of our people are against Daesh" and that *your* assumptions (without any facts or data to back them up) are entirely valid...

          The difference between you and me is that your solution to the "real problem" of a violent minority appears to be to assume that they're *all* potential terrorists and treat them as such (just like the French Police have been doing), not realising that that just drives more of those in the middle *towards* the radicals.

          It's hilariously ironic that you try to lecture me on "not havnig any great interest in, or respect for the facts", but, hey, as long as it makes you *feel* safer because "Something Must Be Done" and this is something, I'm sure you'll be happy.

      2. Manolo
        Alert

        Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

        I don't know about the media in your country, but if I believed the media in my country I would be believing that most people showing up now were refugees (most are not, they are economic migrants), most were families (they are not, they are mainly young men without women and children with them, but the media mainly shows the women and children), most are highly educated (they are mostly not) and that they all will be a glorious contribution to a wonderful multicultural society.

        Meanwhile, a few hundred meters from where I live, muslims were also demonstrating:

        http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4557201,00.html

        Waving ISIS flags and shouting "death to the Jews".

        Meanwhile, Moroccans are vastly overrepresented in crime statistics, dependence on social welfare and many of their older generation never bothered to learn the language.

        Meanwhile, opinions polls among the Turks here show much sympathy for ISIS and unsavoury attitudes towards Jews.

        Meanwhile, an elementary school in Amsterdam can no longer toast to the New Year with their pupils with fake alcohol-free bubbly, because it offended the parents of the muslim pupils.

        Meanwhile, neighbourhood shops in the banlieues of Paris face the choice of no longer selling wine and pork or having their windows smashed every night.

        I am not denying that there are many, may well meaning muslims. They are my neighbours and colleagues. I have, or had colleagues from Morocco, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Egypt and Pakistan. I have travelled in Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Jordan, UAE and Oman and have met many friendly, hospitable people who live normal lives and have absolutely nothing with terrorism. But at the same time, If you speak to them, and press a bit further, many of them hold beliefs that are incompatible with our Westerns values and freedoms. Which is still their right to have these beliefs. In the Bible Belt in my country you can find the same attitudes. But where I draw the line is when they live in our societies and are infringing on our beliefs and freedoms, by by pushing their medieval beliefs on us, and assuming the victim role and drawing the racism card when we don't give in.

        Just ask those that marched through London last weekend if next weekend they will march for women's rights or against discrimination of homosexuals and see how many show up.

        1. Graham Marsden

          Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

          > Meanwhile, a few hundred meters from where I live, muslims were also demonstrating:

          You talk about "believing the media". In the link you give (published in August 2014, I note), it claims "Hundreds of Islamic State supporters", yet in this one, from the BBC it says "a group of some 20 men were captured on video waving the black flag of jihadist groups and voicing support for the militant group Islamic State (IS)" and this one says "The Public Prosecutor's report of the rally said that "there were only 40 to 50 people present…", so whose figure do you accept? Whatever the case, I think you'd agree that they are a tiny minority of the Muslims in the country.

          > Meanwhile, Moroccans are vastly overrepresented in crime statistics,

          There are plenty of areas of the world where minorities are vastly over-represented in crime statistics, Possibly because they make easy targets for lazy Police who want to boost their arrest figures when it's convenient.

          > Meanwhile, an elementary school in Amsterdam can no longer toast to the New Year with their pupils with fake alcohol-free bubbly,

          Do you have a Dutch version of the Daily Mail? That sounds like one of their sort of stories!

          > where I draw the line is when they live in our societies and are infringing on our beliefs and freedoms, by by pushing their medieval beliefs on us,

          Yet it's OK for us to stomp all over the Middle East and infringe on *their* beliefs and tell *them* how they should live our lives because *WE* know better?! Pots and kettles come to mind.

          > Just ask those that marched through London last weekend if next weekend they will march for women's rights or against discrimination of homosexuals and see how many show up.

          Oh please. There are *many* worthy causes in this world, but if you wanted to join in marches and demonstrations and protests supporting them, you'd end up doing nothing else. Just because someone doesn't turn up to one does *NOT* mean that they are in favour of such discrimination and for you to suggest otherwise is a really shabby argument.

          1. Known Hero

            Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

            Yet it's OK for us to stomp all over the Middle East and infringe on *their* beliefs and tell *them* how they should live our lives because *WE* know better?! Pots and kettles come to mind.

            I think this is the closest question we have to the root of the issue.

            If you ask me though. Yes I believe we do, I think it would be wrong to stand by and do nothing whilst people are being oppressed. If they had their beliefs without forcing it upon others on pain of death or torture, then sure let them have their way.

            Lets not forget they have been fighting over religion for the past 1500 years, this is not a issue that has been solely caused by western governments, Not saying we didnt poke the hornets nest, but I don't believe we are the sole cause.

          2. Manolo

            Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

            "You talk about "believing the media". In the link you give (published in August 2014, I note), it claims "Hundreds of Islamic State supporters", yet in this one, from the BBC it says "a group of some 20 men were captured on video waving the black flag of jihadist groups and voicing support for the militant group Islamic State (IS)" and this one says "The Public Prosecutor's report of the rally said that "there were only 40 to 50 people present…", so whose figure do you accept? Whatever the case, I think you'd agree that they are a tiny minority of the Muslims in the country."

            Oh, so, if there were 50 instead of 200 I should be 4 times less worried that these psychopath live a stone's throw away from me? I'll give it a try. But I think the real worry is that there are sufficient of these idiots around, and it is not significant if there are 50 or 200. We've seen in Paris and in San Bernardino how many it takes.

            "> Meanwhile, an elementary school in Amsterdam can no longer toast to the New Year with their pupils with fake alcohol-free bubbly,

            Do you have a Dutch version of the Daily Mail? That sounds like one of their sort of stories!"

            You are using some very dubious argumentation here. It is only true if published in The Grauniad? Sorry mate, straight from the horse's mouth this one, don't even know if it even made the media.

            "> where I draw the line is when they live in our societies and are infringing on our beliefs and freedoms, by by pushing their medieval beliefs on us,

            Yet it's OK for us to stomp all over the Middle East and infringe on *their* beliefs and tell *them* how they should live our lives because *WE* know better?! Pots and kettles come to mind."

            Do I say that is OK? Or does it give them the right to behave the way they do in the West?

            Very dubious argumentation again.

            1. Graham Marsden

              Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

              > I think the real worry is that there are sufficient of these idiots around, and it is not significant if there are 50 or 200.

              Are you familar with the concept of "Risk Perception"? Put simply, you are *much* more likely to die in a car accident or be knocked down whilst crossing the street or any of the common-place everyday activities which we all engage in without a second thought, because, unless such things are spectaculare in some way, they simply don't make it into the mainstream media.

              Of course Daesh love people with attitudes like this, because every time they should "Boo!" these people jump and demand even more restrictions of our freedoms and liberties and push for more attacks in the Middle East which will only result in the radicalisation of more moderates.

              As for the story about the school (which is actually from a blog, I note written back in 2009, and from someone who has strong views about alleged "political correctness"), it was your "argumentation" which was dubious since you claimed it without citing a source initially, hence my scepticism.

              In any case, it sounds to me like a mixture of a militant minority of parents and a group of spineless administrators who were so desperate to avoid offence that they were willing to agree to the parents' demands, neither of which behaviours impresses me.

              In response to your final comment, I'd point out that *you* were the one objecting to the way "they live in our societies and are infringing on our beliefs and freedoms, by by pushing their medieval beliefs on us", I just pointed out that *we* were doing the same in their countries. If we don't want them to do it over here, it is hypocritical of us to do it over there.

              1. Manolo
                FAIL

                Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

                OK, so the fact that Americans are bombing Syria, means it is OK for Moroccans in The Netherlands to spit on Dutch gays walking hand in hand in Amsterdam?

                I am completely aware of risk perception. I don't fear a terrorist attack, I fear that a once open and liberal society that is eroding further and further. Comedians who say they can't make the jokes any more they used to, columnists self-censoring, politicians needing 24 hour security, gays no longer being able to walk the streets hand in hand, teachers who can't teach the Holocaust in class any more. That is what pisses me off.

                1. Graham Marsden

                  Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

                  Homophobia is not exclusive to any particular national group or religion!

                  And I, too, fear an open and liberal society is being eroded, but generally that's by our short-sighted "we must be seen to be doing something" politicians who can't (or won't) consider the long-term results of their actions because they're not going to appear until after the next election. Again, though, this isn't down to the actions or demands of one particular group.

                  1. Manolo

                    Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

                    "Homophobia is not exclusive to any particular national group or religion!"

                    I never said that. I mentioned the Bible Belt before. But the inhabitants of the Bible Belt usually express their dislike of homosexuals in words, whereas some other religious groups express it with violence. And I think you' ll also find that the incidence of homophobia varies wildly between national groups and religions.

          3. Manolo

            Re: @Manolo - "well meaning people"

            Wait, I found it:

            http://weblogs.nos.nl/binnenlandredactie/2009/01/06/chocolademelk-en-champagne/

            https://translate.google.com/#nl/en/http%3A%2F%2Fweblogs.nos.nl%2Fbinnenlandredactie%2F2009%2F01%2F06%2Fchocolademelk-en-champagne%2F

            Read it and weep. And it's on the NOS site, the Dutch equivalent of the BBC and just as political correct as the Beeb.

  13. DaveNullstein

    Refugee?

    Looks more like that time he got fired from Apple...y

    That said, I would happily host a Syrian refugee(s) under my own roof if my government would let me...

  14. Wiltshire

    Many people in Britain are somewhat confused by the whole "Trumped-up story".

    On one hand, hasn't Britain always been a home for immigrants, for thousands of years? On the other hand, it's always been the most recent ones that get the blame for everything.

    Bloody Celts/Romans/Vikings/Angles/Saxons/Normans/Huguenots/Rosicrucians/Indians/West Indians/Healthcare workers, coming over here and nicking our language/tin/women/cakes/castles/reformation/enlightenment/corner shops/buses/healthcare jobs.

    Genetically, what proportion of the UK population is *not* descended from some immigrant?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      "Genetically, what proportion of the UK population is *not* descended from some immigrant?"

      Also worth bearing in mind that the USA is barely 250 years old as a nation and from the point of view of the current "owners", barely 500 years old. The vast majority of USA residents are 4th generation or less.

      Much of the Middle East as we know it today is the result of boundary drawing by Europe and the USA, splitting up "natural" aggregations and groupings of people into separate nations consisting of conflicting sub-groups. On the other hand, the Middle East is still very insular and tribal in it's outlook with much less sense of any national identity. A bit like the Balkans.

      1. Youngdog

        Re John Brown

        The bloody beaker people! Coming here from the Iberian Peninsula, giving us cups so we didn’t have to lick water from our hands! What's wrong with licking it up like a cat eh?*

        * c/o Stewart Lee (what, you think I'd nick it uncredited like some bloody Pasquale?)

    2. Vic

      Genetically, what proportion of the UK population is *not* descended from some immigrant?

      That's the root of the stand-up's favourite line, "I'm pure Anglo-Saxon, me"...

      I've never quite had the balls to say "which?" when I hear that in a pub.

      Vic.

  15. Blake St. Claire

    Jobs Syrian?

    If so, then I'm German. Or English. Or Irish. No, I was born here, and spent 95% of my life living here. I'm an American. No matter what my father, or grandfathers, or great-grandfathers were.

    SJ was born here, raised here, spent 100% of life here. Whatever his biological and adoptive parents are, or were, matters not. He's an American.

    Trying to claim that blocking refugees – Syrian or otherwise – risks missing the next SJ? I certainly "get the point" but I think it's a stretch.

    1. Turtle

      Not Another Steve Jobs Nor Another Apple

      "SJ was born here, raised here, spent 100% of life here. Whatever his biological and adoptive parents are, or were, matters not. He's an American."

      Job's father was Syrian and the only way that it could have had any effect on him was genetically as he essentially never met his father; and so claiming that Jobs' Syrian heritage - solely genetic! - was a significant factor in his life and success, tends to genetic determinism and thence racialism.

      Jobs was a loathsome, profoundly shallow and narcissistic human being. The world needs neither another Steve Jobs nor another Apple.

      1. Desidero

        Re: Not Another Steve Jobs Nor Another Apple

        Jobs' biological father also headed a society in Syria that was disbanded due to its violent protests. Not sure Banksy was alluding to that - oh wait, he wasn't - or Jubs' subsequent Calvinist upbringing with his stepfather a repo man.

        Nor was Banksy using this bit about Apple's taxes to allude to the amount of money Apple underpays worldwide with lawsuits in several unhappy countries.

        Glib street art is sometimes a bit *too* glib.

      2. Danny 2

        Re: Not Another Steve Jobs Nor Another Apple

        Donald Jesuswept Trump claims to be Scottish because his mother was, and yet it was a Scot who started the petition to get him banned from the UK.

        I loathed Jobs but at least he did what it said on the tin; he made money and stayed out of politics. There are worse people still alive.

      3. Turbo Beholder
        Linux

        Re: Not Another Steve Jobs Nor Another Apple

        > The world needs neither another Steve Jobs nor another Apple.

        Hopefully.

        More to the point, it's a case of preaching to the choir.

        Because the MacBook crowd almost completely overlaps with the crowd of those who already cheer for it (not coincidentally at all).

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The difference is important.

    I was speaking to my wife about the issues of the middle east and the migrant crisis in Europe.

    She kindly reminded me the difference between an "immigrant" and a "refugee".

    I think a lot of people above needs to learn the difference, perhaps Banksy too.

    Immigrants goes to a country because they like that country, wether because of economic conditions, the benefits or just the ideology behind the founding of the nation. These people are likely to stay in the country and start a new life permanently.

    Refugees are those displaced from their homes forcefully and has nothing left and are willing to take a real chance of death in order to return to a civil society. These people are or should be likely to want to go back to their own countries once it is rebuilt and stabilized.

    One should be helped on humanitarian grounds, the other not so much unless they're rich or can contribute to science or technology.

    Accepting every immigrant just on the off-chance that their offspring *could* build one of the biggest company in the world is like betting on the lottery, and unfair to the local population.

    1. Danny 2

      Re: The difference is important.

      I'm adding to your post at a tangent, not subtracting from it.

      Jobs father was a refugee from Homs because Homs was already under attack from the current Syrian dictators father, who basically levelled the city later in '82.

      Anyone smart enough to post here already knows the difference between a migrant and a refugee; what is less understood is the difference between a refugee and an aslyee.

      1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

        Re: The difference is important.

        "Anyone smart enough to post here already knows the difference between a migrant and a refugee;"

        Having got this far through the posts and replies I beg to differ. There seems to be certain element of Daily Mail-ism here who are basically lumping in anyone "different" as a single group of "invaders". Many seem to be forgetting that the people running away from the fighting are the ones who would really rather not fight at all and just want to be left in peace.

        1. Danny 2

          Re: The difference is important.

          Call me Pollyanna if you want but I think the eventual recommends around here show we're generally more sensible commentards than on any newspaper website. Or the Daily Mail for that matter.

  17. Blipvert
    Trollface

    An Opportunity Presents Itself...

    ..I wonder which enterprising Syrian is at this moment chiseling the mural off the wall to sell to some US buyer?

    1. Danny 2

      Re: An Opportunity Presents Itself...

      Well, it's in Calais so statistically it's likely to a French or Somalian or Pakistani.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Ex banksy fan

    His delusional love of the evil apple corporation goes against everything he has claimed to stand for in the past :-(

  19. Blipvert
    Trollface

    Just As A Counterpoint...

    ...I'm popping over to Calais to do a Watercolor of a Chinese worker, at Foxxcon, throwing themselves off a balcony!

  20. Charles Manning

    THis is just stupid cherry picking

    By the logic presented here:

    Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Zuckerboy are all college drop outs, so lets all drop out of college.

    Lottery winners get oodles of money, so lets all buy lottery tickets.

    What this does not address is that the most likely case is not presented. Sure:

    The most likely outcome for dropping out of college is flipping burgers.

    The most likely outcome for buying lottery tickets is losing.

    The most likely outcome for an influx of Muslims is "no go" zones, elevated rape statistics etc etc.

    On top of that, it ignored the fact that the middle east was a lot more compatible with Western values back in the 1950s than it is now, with women wearing western clothing, going to university etc: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/afghanistan-syria-womens-us-153/

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: THis is just stupid cherry picking

      "The most likely outcome for an influx of Muslims is "no go" zones, elevated rape statistics etc etc."

      Really? On El Reg? Please have some stats (or just lookup Britain in the world map of rape rates):

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Coat

        Re: THis is just stupid cherry picking

        Downvotes for simply pointing out that Arab countries have lower rape rates than so-called "civilized" countries? How very civilized.

        1. Francis Boyle Silver badge

          No

          Downvotes for ignoring the fact that sharia is not exactly friendly to women reporting rape.

      2. Known Hero
        Unhappy

        Re: THis is just stupid cherry picking

        @fafa

        That would be officially recorded rape.

        Schrodinger report

        : the more rape reported the better the statistic / The more rape reported the worse the statistic

    2. dogged

      Re: THis is just stupid cherry picking

      > The most likely outcome for an influx of Muslims is "no go" zones, elevated rape statistics etc etc.

      That's bullshit. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims peacefully integrated in the UK and you come out with that kind of crap?

      No wonder ISIS are winning, You've already surrendered.

  21. This post has been deleted by its author

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    The UK is an overpopulated small island on the far west of Europe yet there are much closer places of refuge such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran etc which have much more space and clement weather than we do but obviously much less generous health and welfare benefits. We are been taken for mugs.

    1. John Sanders
      Holmes

      Economic migration

      Spot on.

      The current refugee crisis is not a refugee crisis at all, this is immigration in large scale of economic migrants, the majority (if not all) of these people had refugee status in countries close to Syria.

      It is from these countries where they decided to embark on a trip to other Northern European countries like Germany, going through a handful of countries, Croatia, Hungary, etc, sometimes spending a decent amount of money in the process.

      Notice that they did discriminate which country they wanted to go to, they did not ask the Hungarian government for asylum, they demanded going to Germany.

      The majority of the immigrants since this mess started have been defined by the UN as 78% male of military age, they have been described as fit, wearing good clothes and many using gadgets like iPhones and other expesive gear.

      In my opinion these are economic migrants. I understand that our elites and Marxist-indoctrinated governments want to have their feel-good moments, these moments will always be at our expense.

      1. Howard Goodall

        Re: Economic migration

        I would be interested to see a link confirming that 78% figure, not that I don't believe it. I think Cameron's stance that we support refugees by supporting camps in/near Syria and taking genuine cases from there is the best thing to do. In starves criminal people smugglers of money and means that those genuinely in need get the chance or help, not just those with cash.

        Our meddling in the middle east is certainly and major cause of the problems there now. I don't believe any intervention we as western powers have made, has improved any situation for the majority. However, the answer is not now an open door policy to allow anyone into our European countries. Culturally we are too different and their understandable desire not to adopt our culture and abandon theirs leads to ghettos and increasing hostility between cultures. Our beliefs and values are too different to allow traditional muslim cultures and beliefs to sit comfortably in a culture based historically on christian values. That's not what people want to hear but it's an unfortunate truth. Failure to address this will see the rise of forces like the National Front party in France gaining popularity in all European countries and the long its left the more radical and distasteful their policies will become.

        HG

        1. bdeluca

          Re: Economic migration

          The UN stats are here, http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

          its 22% are males aged 22-59.

      2. Francis Boyle Silver badge

        Re: Economic migration

        " they have been described as fit, wearing good clothes and many using gadgets like iPhones and other expesive gear."

        Reminds me of the old story about the famous Jewish violist who was asked why there were no famous Jewish pianists and replied "because it's hard to flee with a piano". You're no less a refugee just because you flee with a Stradivarius.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Economic migration

        Complete stupidity. These people are refugees. You do not have to be poor to be a refugee. You just have to want to get away from the bombs and the shootings and the rapes. You want to get your children away from being drafted into being the next suicide bomber (usually under threat of "do this or we'll kill your parents"). Many of them will have been affluent middle class when the war came along. They own good clothing, expensive jewellery and gadgets. They will have emptied their bank accounts, and picked up every item of clothing, every piece of jewellery and every gadget they could carry. They will have handed over a good proportion of their money to the people smugglers but they are not yet broke. No doubt they have spent some of their remaining money on their way across Europe. If they have to they will sell the gadgets and the jewellery.

        When they arrive at their chosen destination they may well use some of their remaining money as seed money for small businesses, just as those who left Germany in the 1930s did, just as the Italians who settled around Glasgow did.

        These people do not want handouts; they want a place to live while they get back on their feet, get a job in a similar position to the one they left, and when both ISIS and the current Syrian regime have been defeated, and Syria is at peace once more the vast majority of them will return home.

        Meanwhile those whose inadequacies or unwillingness to work mean that they lose out will find another minority to blame for their own shortcomings.

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      re: much less generous health and welfare benefits

      I suppose a load of bombs falling from the sky could be considered as such. Seems a bit of a daft way of looking at it to me tbh.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    apples and pears

    I saw the story (Banksy, mural, refugee / migrant camp) a few days ago, presented by a "forward-thinking" online paper in another EU country. In their forward thinking fervour, they prudently blocked the option for commenting under the text, quoting the usual "racism and hate". Which, equally promptly, made the "hate-bearers" comment on the subject under all other articles. Oh it's so tough to bear the standards of progress with so much backward-thinking and pure hatred in the air.

    Jeez.

    Bottom line is we don't like their values (almost as much as they don't like ours) and we don't like to share our wealth with them, so fuck off. The problem is that we, the I-beings, are hypocrites and don't dare say what we think aloud. Instead we spout the official nonsense about how we would love to share OUR values (as long as we don't need to share our wives and salaries, but hey, let's not say this aloud).

    p.s. I don't blame migrants, I don't blame them for desperately trying to get on board of this wonderful ark glimmering in the dark. Particularly, when suddenly the gangways are laid on the ground and not many questions are asked. For a very, very limited time, because, honestly, how many of the 6+ bilion poor of this planet can fit, before the captains realize they've got it wrong, and the ark's sinking? I'd be packing pretty quick to make it onboard. In other words - I'm not blaming anyone trying to get in.

  24. mrjohn

    Banksy and his shadow, drop shadow that is

  25. mrjohn

    But he misses the point, we are not concerned with their potential value in dollars, though this is a persuasive argument for some, we are concerned with their rights as individuals. Everyone deserves a chance, and the world needs baristas as much as it needs spawners of global empires

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like