back to article Microsoft Windows Mobile 10: Uphill battle with 'work in progress'

As the first major milestone release of Windows 10 Mobile nears, Microsoft still has much work to do to bring on the system fluency and capabilities of its predecessor, let alone its established mobile rivals. Microsoft customers who have taken advantage of Windows Phone to equip field works with modern mobile applications, …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Huh?

    Who releases a work in progress? Oh, wait ...

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Huh?

      "Who releases a work in progress? "

      Anyone who wants BETA software well tested to eliminate bugs prior to release? This is not RTM yet.

      1. jnemesh

        Re: Huh?

        Even after RTM it will still be in beta. Expect it to have plenty of bugs, shortcoming, and problem...and expect MS to say "Windows Phone 11 will fix everything"!

        1. Philippe

          Re: Huh?

          I really don't know why you've been voted down so much.

          One) Your comment was tongue in cheek,

          2) There is a whole lot of truth in it.

          Anyone who's lived through Windows Mobile 4, 5, 6 Windows Phone 7, 8 and 8.1 can confirm.

        2. TheVogon

          Re: Huh?

          "Even after RTM it will still be in beta"

          Well, no - by definition of RTM it won't be.

          "Expect it to have plenty of bugs"

          Quite possibly - but WP / WM RTM releases so far have always been pretty stable - unlike say certain versions of Android...

      2. big_D Silver badge

        Re: Huh?

        Agreed AC. And the latest beta release is a lot more stable and having battery life that lasts more than a day is a relief.

        Interestingly, the new Audible App and the latest build have improved beyond recognition. On 8.1 Audible could take up to 1 minute to become responsive. On Windows 10 it was similar. With the latest build and the latest version of the App, it is down to under 5 seconds on my 1020. A very welcome improvement, as this is probably one of my most used apps.

        So far I've been very impressed with the latest build. The only negative I've found so far is that the the "U" and the "S" keys don't work in the URL box in Edge... :-S Using any other text box works fine.

  2. djstardust

    Oh dear

    How can a company with so much money and developers make such a bollocks of things?

    1. Zog_but_not_the_first
      Windows

      Re: Oh dear

      Years of practice.

    2. Thought About IT

      Re: Oh dear

      Too many cooks working to different strategies?

    3. Paul Shirley

      Re: Oh dear

      I thought it was obvious: they ignored everyone not named Ballmer. Including their own staff.

      Now they're mostly ignoring anyone not named Nadella.

      Someday they'll give up delivering what Microsoft needs and build what customers want. We're still a few years and another CEO away from that.

      1. a_yank_lurker

        Re: Oh dear

        What 'Slurp needs to do is focus on way customers use their products and their competitor's equivalents.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Oh dear

        Someday they'll give up delivering what Microsoft needs and build what customers want. We're still a few years and another CEO away from that.

        No, I seriously doubt that. Once Gates stepped away, it was downhill at top speed WITH afterburners.

        The dream of dominating ALL platforms (by cramming the Metro phone interface down desktop user's throats), using the Least Common Denominator (Windows 3 graphics capabilities across Windows 10 platforms), and creating their own walled garden app store are entirely reactionary, furtive moves.

        Their arrogance and stupidity won't kill them off for quite some time, but eventually they might have to realize that like the word "Zune", "Windows Phone" will be considered a joke.

    4. Steve Davies 3 Silver badge

      Re: Oh dear

      "you stupid boy!" (to paraphrase Capt Mainwearing)

      It is Microsoft you are talking about. Just look at the nice long list of product failures starting with the 'Kin'.

      They seem to be more and more Marketing driven instead of product driven these days. Probably far too many MBA's who are PHB's work inside fortress Redmond.

      At least they seem to be sticking with the phone this time but sadly, they are far too late with something that might (eventually) turn out to be half decent (As a phone but not on the desktop).Android and iOS have the market almost to themselves.

      The lack of apps is going to hinder if not stop the growth of Windows phones.

      1. Phil Kingston

        Re: Oh dear

        "sticking with" is something a lot of their fans do indeed hope to see - ditching 6.x for the incompatible 7, ditching that for the incompatible 8, ditching that for the incompatible 10...

        I use "incompatible" to refer to apps, but the pattern's there.

        Anyone thinking MS will stick with 10 for more than a couple of years doesn't have history on their side, despite what MS may say.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Oh dear

      I'm not sure it's just a developers fault. It looks the product of some in-fights at Microsoft, including management and designers. No good will come from that. And it looks Nadella nor understands it, nor manages it.

  3. ZSn

    Onedrive downgrade

    You forgot to mention that the backend - onedrive - has it's storage dramatically reduced. If you have a windows phone you had 30gb to play with. From 2016 it's been reduced to 5gb. If you have a decent camera that will fill it soon enough without any other backups. I'm not sure how they hope to compete against android that has 15gb free to go with the phone. They seem to have no coherence in their mobile strategy period.

    1. Jeff Lewis

      Re: Onedrive downgrade

      That literally has nothing to do with Windows Mobile 10581. In fact, it has nothing to do with Windows Mobile at all. That's a decision by the OneDrive group and it affects anyone with a OneDrive account.

      That aside, you have lots of other options - including but not limited to: buying more online storage from Microsoft, using a microSD card and backing up by syncing at home. using any other online file storage service and uploading from the phone or using other photo sharing services like Instagram or Google Photos.

      More than that - I don't know what phone carrier you're using - but if you can push 30GB of photos to the cloud over your phone in any normal timeframe, I want to know who you're signed up with. I get 6GB/mo and that's a special deal. If I had to renew my account, I'd be lucky to get 3GB at the same price... so it would take me at least five months of solid heavy photography to fill 15.

      But to put it into clearer focus: my Nexus 6 takes "12MP" photos, but the files are around 3MB... or 1666 photos. At 10 photos a day - it would take 5.5 months to fill that up. So no - for the vast majority of people, no - you won't fill it up soon enough unless you really want to keep every photo you take online and in OneDrive.

      Is it unfortunate that MIcrosoft has overreacted to a few bad apples spoiling the party for everyone? Yup, it is. Is it the end of the world? No, not really. You have other options.

      And yes, I believe YOU PERSONALLY have this issue. Perhaps you take hundreds of photos every day at highest resolution and minimal compression and upload them all to OneDrive. I'm sorry you've been inconvenienced, but you really aren't typical and I really doubt too many people are going to walk into a phone shop or Microsoft store and say 'Excuse me - I'd like to buy this phone - how much free online storage for my photos does it include? Only 5GB? Sorry - not interested.'

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Onedrive downgrade

        > 1666 photos. At 10 photos a day

        One day I took over a 1000 photos - not on a phone though.

        1. AceRimmer

          Re: Onedrive downgrade

          "One day I took over a 1000 photos - not on a phone though."

          A video camera?

      2. Zippy's Sausage Factory

        Re: Onedrive downgrade

        That literally has nothing to do with Windows Mobile 10581. In fact, it has nothing to do with Windows Mobile at all. That's a decision by the OneDrive group and it affects anyone with a OneDrive account.

        Kinda digs a grave for "One Microsoft" though, doesn't it?

      3. Squander Two

        Re: Onedrive downgrade

        > I don't know what phone carrier you're using - but if you can push 30GB of photos to the cloud over your phone in any normal timeframe, I want to know who you're signed up with. I get 6GB/mo and that's a special deal. If I had to renew my account, I'd be lucky to get 3GB at the same price... so it would take me at least five months of solid heavy photography to fill 15.

        What has the amount of storage on Onedrive got to do with the cost of your phone contract? Seriously, I don't see any link at all. You seem to be working from the assumption that the only reason to put a photo on Onedrive is that you're out and about and that no-one would ever do so at home. That assumption is completely bizarre. Windows Phone even has a setting for users to decide whether photos get uploaded via mobile or wifi, which rather indicates that a lot of users are using wifi.

        > At 10 photos a day - it would take 5.5 months to fill that up.

        Five-and-a-half months! Gosh. What makes you think this is a long time? I've been using Onedrive a couple of years now, and intend to use it a few more, unless the silly price hike turns out to be the first of many.

        > So no - for the vast majority of people, no - you won't fill it up soon enough unless you really want to keep every photo you take online and in OneDrive.

        What, the vast majority of people would never keep files for five-and-a-half months?

        OK, so the idea of keeping all your photos online is obviously so crazy to you that you can't even get your head around the idea of other people doing it. But surely you've noticed the plethora of services offering that exact thing to people? Have you considered that they might be offering the service because a lot of people are in fact using it?

        I keep all my photos online. Used to use Mozy's backup, then switched to just bunging everything on Onedrive because it's a hell of a lot more convenient. Available on all my devices, trivially easy to share, and all backed up. I doubt I'm that unusual.

    2. TheVogon

      Re: Onedrive downgrade

      Beta OS is Beta OS - SHOCK!

      Running this build since release, I have not ever seen most of the issues mentioned. The current WM10 build is rock solid and smooth for me on a Lumia 930.

      The included applications such as Outlook update independently of the core OS, so reviewing the applications shipping now may well not reflect what we see in a few weeks at RTM.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Facepalm

    Time warp!

    LOL, 10581 was released on 29th October! There's 0.01% chance this is the RTM build for WIndows 10 mobile.

  5. Roger B

    Had to go back to 8.1

    The battery drain on my 625 was terrible, I only use it as a tablet/camera but switching it on in the morning, leaving it at home and coming back I'd find a dead battery, having gone back to 8.1 the phone has been on all weekend and still at 77%, also syncing photos with the OneDrive was just not happening on the preview, but again on 8.1 it is instant. Feedback was submitted before reverting back, hope it gets fixed soon as everything else seemed to work great.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Had to go back to 8.1

      "The battery drain on my 625 was terrible"

      A number of battery drain issues were fixed in the current FAST Insider Preview build. Is much better now.

      1. big_D Silver badge

        Re: Had to go back to 8.1

        My 1020 has gone from 12 - 14 hours battery life with the previous build to 36 hours average with the new build.

  6. GregC

    Microsoft has pushed Windows 10 very aggressively at PC users, even apologising for being heavy handed.

    Emphasis mine - genuine question, when did this apology happen? I must have blinked and missed it.

    As for W10M itself - it sounds like a half-arsed, half-finished mess and it's going to hit the market in this state? I'll just grab myself some popcorn....

    1. Kyorin

      I realise you pointed out the good before the bad, but the way it was presented was in a very negative light, a progress-type report on the work so far could have included all of the criticisms you made, but in a slightly more positive light. It is bad for everyone if the no. of mobile ecosystems dwindles to just two. I run the latest build of the UNFINISHED version of Windows 10 Mobile, and for pre-release software, it's actually pretty good, yes there are some bugs, but mostly minor at this late stage. I would actually go as far as to say that Windows 10 Mobile is closer to being finished and is a higher quality product than Windows 10 for Desktops which is obviously already released!

      1. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        " It is bad for everyone if the no. of mobile ecosystems dwindles to just two. "

        Yet the state of the desktop market is OK ?

        1. cambsukguy

          The minimum number of desktop OSs that can reasonably said to exist is three.

          That is systems where you can run a significant number of mainstream desktop apps.

          Obviously that rolls a large number of similar systems using similar kernels into one.

  7. captain veg Silver badge

    status quo ante

    "The features are divided between a “hamburger” menu in the top left and an “overflow” menu, the traditional Windows Phone menu."

    So back to a menu and a toolbar, none of of that ribbon bollox? Can we have it in the desktop version too?

    -A.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Big Brother

    Pure evil

    Windows 10 killed Lady Diana.

  9. Mikel
  10. Phoenix50

    WTF?

    Andrew, I couldn't have disagreed with you more if I've have swiped left and sent this article to the Junk.

    You complain about hamburger menus being out of reach - but fail to mention the new feature for larger phones where you hold down the start button momentarily and they screen jumps down within reach - it's a neat addition and one that shows the developers are thinking more about the UX than you give them credit.

    As for Outlook, I have none of these issues on my 1520 - and yes, it does crash now and then but I would expect a pre-release version to. The speed improvements are considerable and the whole setup feels more fluid - I don't know where you are getting the idea transition effects are somehow worse?

    And as for the Store taking "2 days" to install the requested apps - dramatic-much? What were you doing it over, a 56k modem?

  11. Jeff Lewis

    Technically, 10581 is not likely going to be the final release.. 10586 is expected to be. The truth is, 10581 is just not ready. On some Lumia phones, 10581 has a bug that literally scrambles your screen if you have any 'desktop' picture active, for one.

    It's possible they may be focusing fixes on the 950 and 950XL for their release later this month and then catching up shortly after with a general release.

    1. Kyorin

      And the fix for the scrambled screen in this PRE-RELEASE SOFTWARE takes seconds to resolve for anyone that can read.

  12. Mark 85

    may want to spend longer evaluating the client release of Windows 10: for the system today lacks the fit and finish they’ve come to expect.

    I'd say not just for the mobiles but for the PC's as well. Then again... the "come to expect"... which is pretty much what we're seeing. We've come to expect crap coming out of Redmond.

    I'm a long time Win user and not a hater. I've just become very apathetic towards MS's total lack of customer needs and wants instead of their schedule and bottom line. I do believe that MS is about to become irrelevant and there may not be a chance to turn things around.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Everything Microsoft touches turns to skittles right now. Xbox one is tanking, windows phone is failing even harder than previously, even windows 10 adopters are unhappy one the free has worn off...

      What's left? Office365? Back office (which is better served byblinux)?

  13. jnemesh
    FAIL

    MS thinks a bigger stick...

    Will help it beat that dead horse back to life! GIVE IT UP, GUYS! It's over, you lost! Move on!

  14. Charles Manning

    Uphill battle?

    The talk of uphill battles suggests yet again is that MS is a late to the party player that needs to be given time to catch up ground so they can get on par with Apple & Google.

    Nothing could be further from the truth.

    MS started this game long before either Apple or Google. They already had phones in 2001. From then their position has just dropped.

    It isn't so much an uphill battle as trying to slow a downhill slide.

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Uphill battle?

      The problem is MS climbed a little hill and believed it was on top. Others climbed the mountains behind and started to look at MS from there... and the real issue of MS in these situations is it loses its compass, and starts to look like a drunken guy in a dark room trying to find the exit - lots of useless stupid attempts instead of a well planned strategy. CEOs with too much ego and personal revenges to obtain don't help either.

  15. Richard Plinston

    Continuum

    > ‘Continuum’ feature, allowing the phone to serve as a surrogate PC,

    Well, not so much a 'PC' just a big big screen phone.

    With ARM CPUs this won't run 'PC' software, just 'Universal' apps and will be similar to Windows RT in what can be run.

    Useful as a big screen browser or perhaps as a thin client to server based software.

    1. Kristian Walsh Silver badge

      Re: Continuum

      It's not really a "big screen phone". The Continuum screen runs a desktop shell that looks just like Windows10 desktop, and the applications open in multiple overlapping windows on it - basically, it's the "Desktop mode" from WindowsRT devices without the "full-screen, now windowed, now fullscreen" context changes from Windows 8.1.

      As you say, it's limited to Universal apps, but accessing remote desktop sessions, SSH/Telnet, Office and Web will cover about 90% of what your average mobile worker needs to do and all of that can be easily accommodated by Universal apps.

      Basically, the Continuum feature is designed for hot-deskers and field workers, not fixed-office IT admins or developers, and it makes sense for them.

    2. cambsukguy

      Re: Continuum

      > Useful as a big screen browser or perhaps as a thin client to server based software.

      Useful as a big screen browser or perhaps as a thin client to server based software or editing a long document using Word or doing more complex equation editing in Excel or creating/editing a PowerPoint presentation or creating a complex email with in-line comments/colours etc. or watching a movie/video on a larger screen, perhaps with others watching in comfort or perhaps a game that works better on a big screen or for two players.

      TFTFY

  16. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Just give up already, Microsoft

    No one wants your crappy phones. Or your shoddy ecosystem.

    The mobile ship has sailed during the final Ballmer years.

    Stick to your productivity/cloud apps and services, and port them to iOS and Android. And pray that enough people give a damn to actually make paid subscriptions.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Just give up already, Microsoft

      Yes they do. WP8.1 is pretty nice, thanks and so are many of the WP-8 generation Lumia phones. The free maps and free GPS are wonderful and lots of us don't really use apps that much.

      Sadly WP10 seems to be screwing things up and I'm wondering if my support for WP will come to an end, and I should give up and get an iPhone.

      1. Mike Taylor

        Re: Just give up already, Microsoft

        I have an iphone as well as a variety of winphones. I think you'd find it a huge step back - certainly I do. The almost complete lack of information on the home pages is disturbing - not being able to do anything about drag those damn, dead icons around is pretty sad. It doesn't have the homeliness that I'm used to. The text input is abysmal compared to swiping around. Can't pin particular contacts on the home page, apparently. Sometimes you can do it, sometimes you can't. The controls seem to be one more click away than is strictly necessary. Siri is not as well integrated as Cortana. I keep finding little things that you just can't do, which is really aggrevating.

        The physical feel is good though, the local search works well. Nice to have lots of apps - although I find I keep installing then uninstalling gimicky ones. Shiny, but boring on the surface and overly complicated below the surface.

        Weirdly my windowsphone skype seems to take longer to sync than the iphone one (although my current windows phone is bargain basement, as I'm waiting for the 950xl)

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Just give up already, Microsoft

          "I have an iphone as well as a variety of winphones. I think you'd find it a huge step back - certainly I do."

          Yep, moving to Windows Phone from iphone was a revelation for me too. No more dead icons, no more inconsistent behaviour and all the other iphone problems you mention. Windows Phone just works. I can't ever see myself going back.

      2. Squander Two

        Re: Just give up already, Microsoft

        > Sadly WP10 seems to be screwing things up and I'm wondering if my support for WP will come to an end, and I should give up and get an iPhone.

        I'm worried about WP10. Haven't tried it yet, but reports are mixed, and it certainly sounds like they're ditching some of what makes WP8 good. But it stretches credulity to think that even Microsoft on their worst day could screw it up so badly that it would be worth getting an iPhone instead.

      3. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Just give up already, Microsoft

        Indeed, a good android phone like the Nexus5x or 6p will destroy anything Microsoft or apple has spewed out into the world.

  17. Mike Taylor
    Coat

    Micro release reviews

    I really like the way that both Windows 10 have been subject to getting reviews during the development process. It's an insight into the development process - though I've never worked on anything as complicated or high profile, I know the feverish pace they'll be working at right now.

    * Mines the one that'll have the 950XL dual sim in the pocket.

  18. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    But...but...but....

    Nedella! Saviour! Genius! Isn't that right?

    Oh hang on, he's been there 25 years and is as wedded to the faltering giant as much as Ballmer ever was.

  19. theOtherJT Silver badge

    Such a shame

    I was using a WinPho 7 device over the weekend, an old Nokia 700. It's just a lovely, lovely thing to use. Feature incomplete, no doubt, but so _nice_. Everything's sort of... where you'd expect it to be. It feels like whoever designed it was thinking about how it would be used rather than just trying to make it look like it did in the concept sketches.

    Every release since then seems to have just been another step further away, and that's really sad.

    1. JDX Gold badge

      Re: Such a shame

      I agree the WP7 underlying UI was pretty ground-breaking in modern phones - by now iOS and Android have surely copied the best bits though just as WP stole the best bits of those systems?

  20. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

    Before the release of win10 for PCs, the prophets of the apocalypse (aka the Register) came out with a similar exercise, advocating on how disastrous win 10 launch would be. We all saw what happen and currently 110 million pc's have it. Thus is just another day of MS bashing exercise at Register

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

      Nonsense.

      1. TheVogon

        Re: Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

        "Nonsense."

        Quite - it's never a surprise!

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

      "We all saw what happen and currently 110 million pc's have it"

      "We all saw what happen and currently 110 million pc's have been infected with it"

      1. AJS2010

        Re: Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

        Can you kindly let me know which anti virus software has classified Win 10 as a virus? They probably all also run on Windows? Try harder.

        1. Anonymous Coward
          Anonymous Coward

          Re: Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

          "Can you kindly let me know which anti virus software has classified Win 10 as a virus? They probably all also run on Windows? Try harder."

          You are very new here I note

    3. theOtherJT Silver badge

      Re: Register bashing MS, What a surprise.

      We all saw what happen and currently 110 million pc's have it.

      Yeah, but large numbers of people get herpes every year. That doesn't mean anyone actually wants it, it just means it's harder to avoid than one might hope.

  21. W. Anderson

    Improvement good, significant sales increase - bleak

    Even if Microsoft gets to apply more polish to Windows 10 Mobile, it is unlikely that much will change in the company's dismal position of garnering about 5% of the Mobile marketplace versus those of Apple iOS and Android that together control approximately 93%, and growing steadily - according to at least 5 reputable and credible USA and International Market Research firms, by 'sales statistics' which don't lie.

    In South America, Africa, and especially India and China, Microsoft Mobile is faring very poorly (compared to both Apple and Android), including in attracting mobile Apps development, and Android has been adopted "officially" by several of the largest and most prestigeous Auto manufacturers for their Mobile platform, all of which collectively paints a bleak picture for Microsoft Mobile, except as a fringe technology

    1. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Improvement good, significant sales increase - bleak

      "Even if Microsoft gets to apply more polish to Windows 10 Mobile, it is unlikely that much will change in the company's dismal position "

      Windows Mobile already has about 30% of the UK enterprise market - my employer (FTSE 100) just replaced over 5000 Blackberries with Microsoft handsets - it was very successful and the feedback is very positive from end users. They cost less than £100 each for a highly functional solution (Lumia 640).

      1. Richard Plinston

        Re: Improvement good, significant sales increase - bleak

        > They cost less than £100 each

        One of the 'features' of the WP years at Nokia was that the phone division made a loss in every quarter despite the $billion sent by Microsoft each year. Microsoft seems to be continuing that in an effort to gain traction somewhere. They seem to be selling to their corporate customers by undercutting the prices to avoid having other OSes in the company.

        But still the total market share falls, now less than 2%.

      2. W. Anderson

        Re: Improvement good, significant sales increase - bleak

        The English have a colourful history of making poor decsions regarding technology in corporations, the most famous example is the hundreds of millions of pounds invested in BT when it went public, only to loss their shirts when it was revealed shortly thereafter that the company's technology was worse than antiquated, and upgrading to latest, most effective technology base would cost more than the company was worth.

        Ayt least the UK government learned their lesson by adopting the ODF Document format and selecting LibreOffice over Microsoft Office, along with at least 20 other European Union countries and countless others around the world to save millions of pounds with significantly increased working efficiency and applications security in just a few short months.

        I hope your company makes it to 2017, fighting against the mountain of Windows malware, ransomeware and vulnerabilities, that cost millions of pounds.

  22. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    My upgrade went well and very solid so far. This review seems pretty off the mark.

    Not sure what phone the reviewer was using, but not having any of his bug issues (mines an 930). The upgrade was relatively quick, not a huge difference from my IPhone. So far pleasantly surprised (I upgraded a few months back and went back to 8.1 in a couple of days). It feels smooth and robust, no issues so far.

    I like the Register but starting to get a bit jaundiced with the default negative bent for Microsoft news\reviews.

  23. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Disgusting!

    Cortana cracked fart joke during the two-minute silence!

  24. MaraThamilan

    Need Lumia 1520 Sucessor with Pen support

    Microsoft should make Lumia 1520 with pen support since they're a "productivity company" and all.

    I loved my 1520 till I broke the screen and then I switched to Samsung Note 5...I love using OneNote with S-Pen and can't live without it! They seem to be choosing the models that mirror iPhone models...not sure if that's the right strategy...

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