back to article FBI says in secret that secret spy Cessnas aren't secret

The FBI has told Congress not to worry about its shell-company-owned surveillance aircraft, which are decked out in the best surveillance tech, as they are engaged in an unclassified operation - which they were unwilling to talk about in a Congressional briefing. The snooping Cessnas were spotted over Baltimore during the …

  1. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Explanation

    What's going on here is th

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    NO CARRIER

  2. elDog

    Maybe the google vans could just be outfitted with WiFi interceptors

    The FBI and other groups could bid for the bit streams.

    "Hello, Google?"

    "Yes, this is google."

    "I am Joe from the New Jersey branch of the Corleone family and I'd like to order a large pizza with all the toppings for the Rambonis. Capisce?"

    "Yes, google understands. It will be delivered in your mailbox in 0.253 seconds. You will see a charge on your credit card ending with 0666."

    Oh, they already are/were/will be.

  3. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    Works 4 me

    I have no issue with the FBI or other authorities using commercial or private aircraft to monitor crims or public crowds any more than I have an issue with police using planes or helicopters to catch speeding autos, bank robbers, etc. All surveillance is not inappropriate including mass monitoring of electronic communication. If you're opposed to being monitored you best not leave your home or use a phone. I've got nothing to hide, how about you?

    1. Mark 85

      Re: Works 4 me

      I've got nothing to hide, how about you?

      Sorry. That's a BS argument to say the least. You have curtains on your windows and locks on your doors, right?

      The problem isn't what their doing.. but how and why. The program isn't classified but yet they can't talk about it even to those responsible for their funding. This is about "oversight" and who's watching the watchers so their power to "be nasty" doesn't go to the "nasty" side. They were/are ignoring the questions of the appropriateness and the level of what they're doing. Checks and balances... ever heard of them?

      The cops have the power to drive down your street and keep an eye on things. Do they have the authority or perhaps "right" to come up to your house and look in windows whenever they want?

      1. P. Lee

        Re: Works 4 me

        Obvious Troll is obvious...

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Facepalm

        Re: Works 4 me

        Yes they do, and they do

    2. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Works 4 me

      "I've got nothing to hide, how about you?"

      I've got a rather manky looking ingrowing toenail I'd like to keep hidden if that's OK with you?

      AC obv.

    3. Cynic_999

      Re: Works 4 me

      "

      If you're opposed to being monitored you best not leave your home or use a phone. I've got nothing to hide, how about you?

      "

      Yes, I personally have quite a bit that I want to hide from complete strangers, especially when I am not at all certain what they intend to do with the information (or what they may intend in future years).

      Good that you have no information that you are unwilling to share with anyone who wants it, though I note with surprise that you are posting anonymously. So, what's your present bank balance, what's your home address, and when did you last have sex (and who with)? Let's start with that information first and then see whether you are happy with sharing more personal stuff.

    4. Flocke Kroes Silver badge

      If you are happy about it ...

      ... why don't you fund it yourself?

      I can understand the FBI refusing to answer questions like 'what do we get for all this tax payers money'. There are good and bad reasons for dodging that one. They also evaded 'how much does it cost', and there are no good reasons for that at all.

      1. Tom 13

        Re: here are no good reasons for that at all.

        Sure there is and anybody claiming otherwise is talking out their ass.

        Operational security is affected by the bad guys knowing what you are/can do. The number of planes sets a limit on what you are/can do. While "how much does it cost" doesn't give you as accurate data as a property report saying the FBI has 115 Cessna planes, after taking into account personnel costs, fuel, and maintenance, it gives you a pretty good idea of how many planes they have. Maybe you'll think they have 110 or 120 instead of the proper 115, but it's still enough to adjust your planning.

    5. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Works 4 me

      Today, you've got nothing at all to hide. In five years, you'll have to hide nothing at all.

    6. fruitoftheloon
      WTF?

      @Ac (the thick one) Re: Works 4 me

      Ac,

      You are a plonker of the first order.

      Also as you are abfab with your government tracking everything you do.

      WTF are you posting as an AC?

      Do you have something to hide?

      Cheers,

      Jay

    7. Bob Dole (tm)

      Re: Works 4 me

      >> If you're opposed to being monitored you best not leave your home or use a phone. I've got nothing to hide, how about you?

      As with any government, the rules (laws) are subject to change. Sometimes with only a moments notice. Sure, you might think you have nothing to hide today but what happens when new leadership decides to make something you do highly illegal? It's happened before and it will certainly happen again.

      Then there's the little discussed fact that the average us citizen breaks the law every single day, often without knowing it: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/you-break-the-law-every-day-without-even-knowing-it.html

      What if they decided to make speeding a federal offense with jail time? With the advent of driver less cars, I could see something like that happening in order to discourage people from driving themselves. After all, it would be for our own protection.

      My point is that every time we expand police powers we make it easier for whoever happens to be in power at the time to abuse them. So we need to chain them down as much as possible to prevent that.

    8. Anonymous Coward
      Pint

      Re: Works 4 me

      Yes, why is it that so many of the people here who claim they have nothing to hide find it necessary to do so anonymously. Maybe they just don't understand irony.

    9. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

      Re: Works 4 me

      " I've got nothing to hide"

      OK then, go ahead with your not hiding anything. SSN, name, address. Bank details, log-on credentials, security answers. Same again for any other on-line services you use. Post it all here so as not to hide it.

      What's that? You've just discovered you have something to hide after all?

    10. Triggerfish

      Re: Works 4 me @ Ac

      And that's how you boil the frog.

    11. Anonymous Coward
      Anonymous Coward

      Re: Works 4 me

      @ AC #1

      You've got nothing to hide? That would be more convincing if you weren't posting anonymously, presumably to hide from your fellow El Reg commentariat. Personally, I am more scared of federal agents who can investigate you, sieze or freeze your assets, arrest and jail you or put you on watch lists that can restrict your movement or potentially complicate your ability to work in certain jobs or on certain federal contracts.

    12. Alan Edwards

      Re: Works 4 me

      " I've got nothing to hide, how about you?"

      You almost certainly do. You may not know it, but you do. An innocuous example - I just bought a bunch of those foam things that go on doors to stop rugrats trapping their fingers when the door shuts. I don't have kids, they are to stop the doors slamming when the windows are open, but Amazon now think I do.

      At the moment it means I get adverts for baby car seats and stuff. It could in the future be connected to other non-rugrat-appropriate things and attract unwanted attention.

      It's not now you need to worry about, it's the future.

    13. Jos V

      Re: Works 4 me

      "I've got nothing to hide, how about you?" - Says the anonymous coward..

      Ok, Good. We see that you were at Union Sq. when they had the anti war demonstration last year. Was it fun? Oh, you were just there having a drink at Starbuck's? Let us pull out the metadata for the area... Hm, you were cursing the IRS for all the paperwork? Ah, ok, you called your accountant about that. Good thing you paid your taxes in time for us to able to pay the C172 to circle the area. Nice fellow that accountant. His brother though, he has some nasty connections.

      Never mind, we'll just save this for the next 10 years, just in case we missed something. Say hi to the wife.

    14. Sleep deprived

      Re: Works 4 me

      Nothing to hide? Why go AC then?

      Please provide name, address and SSN.

  4. FuzzyTheBear

    Open air prison

    The US with all the surveillance and spying is now an open air prison that keeps tabs on you with your cell phone , with spy planes , spy satellites , wiretaps at large ( warrantless ) etc etc .. Need i say more ?

    That's not the country of freedom and liberty.. it's the country of the freedom they let you have and liberty they let you have .

    1. chivo243 Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: Open air prison

      are you the new guy? Welcome to Earth, the wacked outest prison planet in the tri-galaxy area. There is surveillance everywhere. Your actions are captured just like your data.... I'm doing 50 to life, funny how good behavior seems to lengthen the sentence.

      Enjoy your stay.

    2. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      Re: Open air prison

      Well the last time we let the Americans have freedom they all turned terrorists and attacked the legitimate government - so we need to be more careful in future.

    3. SundogUK Silver badge

      Re: Open air prison

      "A liberal paradise would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities, and only law enforcement has guns.

      And believe it or not, such a place does, indeed, exist…

      It’s called prison.”

      -Sheriff Joe Arpaio

      Maricopa County, Arizona

      1. chivo243 Silver badge

        Re: Open air prison

        Ol' Joe is a real piece of work. My brother used to live in his jurisdiction, and was glad to leave.

  5. Phil Endecott

    > "Clear rules for when and how the Federal government can watch Americans

    > from the sky....."

    Only Americans, of course. The rest of us can be not only watched but murdered from the sky, and that's just fine.

  6. Henry Wertz 1 Gold badge

    Re: Anonymous tol who claims they have nothing to hide. Yeah you do, don't be a tool.

    As for these planes... I have no idea if they should need a warrant or not. To be honest, if they are just looking on public spaces, maybe they shouldn't need one. Given 100 or so flghts over at least 5 years, they aren't just flying them indiscriminantly anyway, so really there's no good reason for them to not get one either. But either way, they should absolutely not be able to ignore oversite and tell Congress "No we aren't telling you dick."

    1. Yet Another Anonymous coward Silver badge

      What's the thing called when you aren't in prison but have to inform the authorities where you are going and who you are associating with?

      America on Parole.....

  7. Doctor Syntax Silver badge

    Given that they refused to answer questions it seems they have something to hide.

  8. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    too much panic on how surveillance is carried out

    and not enough on what is done with what is collected.

    It would be very hard indeed to sniff out a single mobile device with no collateral sniffing. Technolgy is increasingly using shared bandwidth and networks making this impossible even if you dont believe in mass surveillance.

    Is the collateral discarded? If moniting is necessary I should not have to worry about regulating every technical approach to the collection e.g. mobile base station, network tap, brute force decryption, carrier based intercept, aircraft, long range microphone etc etc this is an endless and ever changing list that is, frankly, missing the point while creating a permanent screaming headline.

    If you are really that paranoid I would assume you dont even go to the pub in case someone overhears your conversation...

  9. SolidSquid

    "the FBI told Senate staffers it was working with the FAA to restore some cover to preserve operational security"

    So they're hiding/modifying/forging documents to cover up an operation which, by their own admission, is not classified or secret?

  10. Pascal Monett Silver badge
    Big Brother

    "This technology had only been used [...] five times since 2010"

    Sure.

    Once per year, all year.

    So they're right !

  11. Roj Blake Silver badge

    Contempt

    If you tell Congress that it's not secret and then refuse to answer further questions, aren't you guilty of contempt?

POST COMMENT House rules

Not a member of The Register? Create a new account here.

  • Enter your comment

  • Add an icon

Anonymous cowards cannot choose their icon

Other stories you might like