Going up hills past blokes with coke-bottle legs: The Smart E-bike Eighteen miles an hour:It’s the difference between loving the Smart E-bike and hating it. This is because the bike is electrically assisted up to 15 mph – the legal limit for assistance in Europe – and beyond that pedalling the very heavy machine becomes exceptionally hard work. Below that speed it’s wonderful. The 200 watt …
If you're in a prang, then plod can seize, examine and test the vehicle. If it is found to be over the permitted limit then you're facing various charges, driving a motor vehicle* on a road without insurance (and you're also on the hook for any injuries caused, which could cost you quite a bit if you knock down Granny Smith and bust her hip), riding without a licence (unless you have one, in which case it will gain some additional points), possibly without a helmet (needs to be a motorcycle one), violation of lighting regulations, no MOT etc etc
It might seem trivial, but if you have one that does 20, the next person will think "well, I could have one that does 25, after all it's not that much more" and so on and so forth until we're all zipping around on unlicensed and uninsured vehicles at incredible speeds and people start getting really hurt in large numbers.
*as at by exceeding the permitted exemptions afforded to e-bikes it has become an electric motorcycle
From experience, most pushbikes are being operated illegally anyway so I'm not sure they'd give two hoots about speed limits. The attraction of the thing is not so much that it's green or healthy, but that it doesn't have a numberplate.
Two days back, had a near miss as a car and van came through roadworks whilst the lights on my side were green. Turns out they were following the cyclist ahead of them and hadn't noticed that he was intentionally redlighting. Probably was thinking he was narrow enough to squeeze by the oncoming traffic so why the hell obey a silly stop sign? . Basically, and a danger to all road and footway users.
>>>"From experience, most pushbikes are being operated illegally anyway so I'm not sure they'd give two hoots about speed limits."
From the 2011 census, 741,000 working residents aged 16 to 74 cycled to work in England and Wales.
Limiting ourselves to just the cycle commuters in England and Wales, and ignoring leisure and sport cyclists, by definition "most" (i.e. >50%) cyclists would have to number over 370,000.
You claim that you have personally observed the illegal conduct of over 370,000 cyclists? That is what you're saying, isn't it?
>>> "Two days back, had a near miss as a car and van came through roadworks whilst the lights on my side were green. Turns out they were following the cyclist ahead of them and hadn't noticed that he was intentionally redlighting. Probably was thinking he was narrow enough to squeeze by the oncoming traffic so why the hell obey a silly stop sign? . Basically, and a danger to all road and footway users."
You say that a car and van jumped a red light which caused danger to yourself - yet somehow it was the fault of a cyclist? How did you arrive at this conclusion? Show all workings.
If you're concerned about road safety, you'll see that the focus should be towards cars and trucks, as these kill many more pedestrians that cyclists.
Statistics trump opinions in all cases. Even anecdotes.
From the ONS:
Deaths (persons) |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Year | (a) Pedestrian hit by | (b) Pedestrian hit by |
| | pedal cycle | car, pick-up or truck |
|------+------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| 2006 | 3 | 233 |
|------+------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| 2007 | 6 | 267 |
|------+------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| 2008 | 3 | 247 |
|------+------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| 2009 | 0 | 141 |
|------+------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| 2010 | 2 | 123 |
and to think the cops turn a blind eye to loud boy racer exhausts, a go faster mod that is probably not declared to the insurance company, can potentially evade VED as its now done on emissions. Plus it's generally accepted motorcycles race on the roads. You can hear them all night around here.
"So why not wave two fingers at the eurocrats and import the yank version?"
I think you'll find all the restrictions on motorised transport, quadricycles etc are pure 100% British made rules.
Other countries in Europe are much more liberal regarding regulation of such contraptions.
In France they let school kids and convicted drunks drive on the road in 50BHP 4 wheeled mini cars which do not require a driving licence. For example.
There is no need to go and import actually. All of the models I know about (and that's quite a lot as we Dutch like our (e-)bikes) are electronically limited. The thing is controlled by a small microcomputer and the restrictions can be loosened/disabled by flashing different firmware on it.
Many people here do it and I haven't heard of any cases where they got into trouble with that. The police usually go after mopeds. Of course if you get into an accident you might be in trouble.
There are two sorts of electric bikes. One is a clever addon to conventional bike, the other is a machine that's really a moped with an electric motor. Those purpose built ebikes seem to be in the latter category -- they're too heavy to pedal so its only the EU restrictions that prevent you from having an authentic twist grip throttle so it behaves like a proper motorbike (like the models sold in the US)
I'd like an electric add-on for my pushbike because the hills aren't getting any flatter. I've looked into it but its pointless at the moment; I've got a bike license so I've got choices. Its true I can't take my motorcycle down a canal towpath intimidating pedestrians (because I'm 'eco') but I have a problem mixing people and vehicles (I walk as well....). Maybe I should just go retro and get a Winged Wheel.
> I'd like an electric add-on for my pushbike because the hills aren't getting any flatter. I've looked into it but its pointless at the moment
How about a Copenhagen Wheel?
No they're awful. They're overpriced startup-ware with the functionality of a sausage roll. Get a proper conversion kit like the Panda bikes XiongDa two-speed conversion kit, the Woosh hub kit, or the Woosh or Eclipse BBS01 kit. Both Eclipse and Woosh sell great batteries.
More than 15 mile an hour on a push bike for most people (i.e. not club cyclists) is scary in the natural home of electric bikes - the city.
Aren't electric bikes sold to people who don't ride a normal bike? Who is the market? People who 20 years ago would have bought a Honda C90? I get why you'd buy one - to save money and not arrive sweaty but wouldn't it be better to have something lighter with which it is possible to cycle home when it goes flat?
... "This provides better energy transfer" no, it doesn't [1], its significantly less efficient than a chain in good working order. The frame is also badly designed, for looks not efficiency. All round a wee bit naff, therefore I won't be buying one. Ha, take that Smart.
[1] http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/chain-or-belt-drive-which-is-faster-36074/
This is quite interesting. The article says that the belt absorbs 34% more energy than the chain; this is technically correct but in terms of rider effort that extra watt might be no more than 1% and possibly less than the effect of different tyre inflation pressures.
But the other issue is Gates belt tension. 85lb? It seems a lot when there is no derailleur and the centres are fixed; the timing belt (urrgh) on cars that employ those abominations (rather than proper enclosed lubricated chains) has more or less zero tension.
Also the article you cite notes that above about 100kg of tension the belt starts to use less energy than the chain.
Overall it looks as if the belt is probably better for an electric bike, given electric bike owners are not likely to be the sort of riders who are obsessive about maintenance. Perhaps we should just assume that the Bionx engineers know their stauff better than us commentards.
Note that's a perfectly maintained brand new chain, which IME has a lifespan of about 2 days in the wild before it becomes a rusted rattley unoiled pantleg-trap with kinked links.
The belt is just about maintenance free, as it's rare it becomes loose. I check mine on my electric motorcycle once a month with a tension tester but have never had to adjust it.
I'm shocked though as that's the first time I've seen anyone actually TEST the difference instead of just arguing about it. Isn't that against the internet law?
> This provides better energy transfer" no, it doesn't [1], its significantly less efficient than a chain in good working order.
> [1] http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/chain-or-belt-drive-which-is-faster-36074/
That author of that article has made an elementary mistake calculating the percentages. The correct efficiency figures are 1.46% loss for chain versus 1.97% for belt, meaning that the belt drive is only 0.51% worse, not 34.6% as claimed.
Nice link. It would also be interesting to see how the differences play out when taking into account a multi-ratio system. Because the belt would use a constant sprocket diameter with internal gearing but the chain would be changing sprocket diameters and would be subject to chordal action when running on the smaller sprockets.
3-5kg for a motor, 1-2kg for a hub, were those at the lighter end they'd weigh 4kg, which leaves 19kg for the bike - 16kg if the components are all super heavy. I think the bike is basically a POS vanity nonsense machine. For a grand you could get a 10kg carbon monster or an 11kg top top hybrid and still have good money to buy a top, top 6-8kg ebike conversion kit from Oxygen, Panda, Woosh, Ezee, Cyclotricity, or Eclipse, and have the £100 it costs to get it fitted and still have hundreds left over. 16-19kg is how much a £79 Argos bike weighs...after it's eaten a few too many Christmas dinners.
"It's 200W added to the power you're supplying yourself, so 400W flat out."
it's not as simple as that...
going uphill it is power to weight ratio that counts, on the flat aerodynamics hits hard from around 30-35kmph
i'd think a heavy upright leccy rider would be hard pressed by even an uncategorised road cyclist, a proper roadie would easily leave it in the dust
but for commute etc. it's a great solution if you haven't the benefit of showers etc. at work
It's a commute, not a race! E-bikes are a brilliant idea for getting people out on a bike when they don't have the strength (or motivation) to cycle hard.
In my experience in London it's not the hills that hurt, since there aren't many, but the traffic lights. 70 of them between home and work mean a lot of standing starts and tired legs by the end of the week.
I don't disagree. As a convenience to those commuting with showers, or as assistance to those not fit enough to commute without assistance, electric bikes may be a great product.
My point was just that if you try to use one of these to race someone fit and determined up a hill, you'll be disappointed.
like a dutch or danish cargo carrying bike or trike?
And for the record, on the flat, it's not that hard to overtake an electric assist bike when riding on a "normal" mountain bike. You don't actually have to be all that fit... the extra weight and inefficiency of the electric drivetrain when it cuts out at 15mph means that the rider on the electric assist bike has to work harder than you to keep up... so most people can have the smug feeling of being faster than an electric bike.
Not been my experience ;-) In Oxford I'm rarely overtaken, and if I am, it's because I'm dawdling at the limit of the assistance so that I am using the least amount of effort to ride. Very few city cyclists will be challenging this bike - they're usually still moving away from the lights as I've already crossed the junction :-)
I bike to work year-round (I'm 52) and climb a monster hill that ends at the office. When I first started last year, I felt like dying after climbing at 4 MPH in granny gear. Today I cranked up at 7 MPH in third gear and felt great doing it.
The way to get strong is not to make a hard task easy, but to do the task until it's not hard anymore. Quit whining about steep hills or long rides and CONQUER THEM!
For folks that genuinely can't make it, E-bikes are a good thing and extend their limited capabilities. For 99% of us, they're a wussification device to avoid exercise. Passing people using a motor is no reason to feel smug.
to qualify for those not sure ... conquer them GRADUALLY... more repetition is always better than more weight!!
for example, go up that hill, don't kill yourself, just give fair effort.. keep it up, and you may find after a month it seems easier, as your ability gets better!! :)
I think you might be off base with the "wussification" jibe. These bike are for transport. Not leisure. We have a very skewed image of cycling in this country, that it's purely a leisure/exercise activity. This is borne out with all the bike on car racks every weekend being driven to the countryside for "rides". The rest of Europe gets it. The bike can be a viable way of getting to work/shops/etc. Not just for the lycra/Strava brigade. I ride an ebike every day to get to work. Ride there in normal clothes (not dressed like a lollipop man). No need for a shower and always get a parking space. oh and it's quicker.
That's 57.5lb!! 3.3kg of battery is 7.25lb so why does the rest of it weigh so much even after the increased weight of the rear wheel hub including motor is taken into account?
In pedal mode you are propelling 2 stone of excess weight. A nice little commuter bike costing less than half as much will easily weigh less than 28lb.
The application of the concept defeats the purpose.
Look at the design. The rear swingarm is massive. Suspension adds weight not just in springs/pivots etc, but in increased engineering around it. The diamond frame bike is one of the great designs (Graeme Obree aside) of all time, and it is only when people try to alter it that this becomes apparent.
Depends. I've been riding mountain bikes since 1988 so have seen almost 30 years of development including suspension. I'm also a materials engineer so I'm also capable of assessing the engineering and materials aspects in the design.
I can tell you now that an £1800 (cross-country as opposed to downhill) mtb will not weigh more than 28lb with full suspension.
The diamond frame is great but there are alternatives, many of which do not rely on traditional steel/aluminium/titanium alloy tubes. Eg: Trimble MTB frame.
The Smart-E is just a poor design.
Yes, I have been riding mountain bikes since about 1993 and so have followed developments for a while also. I agree that XC bikes shouldn't weigh much. This is a bike aimed at a very different market though. And needs to fit a battery in somewhere...
Your final statement was what I was trying to say too.
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£1800 for an ebike that's curiously overweight. Like someone said earlier a basic scooter cost £500. That's how much it would cost for a half decent ebike conversion kit. Of course regular pushbikes are often uncomfortable and expensive toys designed for "enthusiasts" so it's not much of a surprise to see the price of this smart bike.
On the point of motorcycles our laws are an even greater farce compounded by the recent 3rd licensing directive. No wonder people are turning to this common law right of travel business.
I use a folding e-bike (a Byocycles Chameleon) to get to work. It is a budget jobbie at around £800, but has a 250W motor and a 36v 10Ah battery and will cruise at 17mph with a bit of light to moderate effort from me. It easily does the 20 mile round trip on one charge. I really don't see the point in paying an extra £1K for a bike that has poorer performance than mine.
The problem with e-bikes is that they all perform pretty much the same regardless of price. Spending £1800 on one is like buying a Porche and discovering it performs no better than a bottom of the range Dacia.
I believe that the UK has (last month) brought its e-bike laws into line with Europe, permitting 250W motors without throttle control unless type approved. Until then the limit in the UK was 200W, though most bikes sold as "legal" were 250W and the authorities turned a blind eye to avoid problems should they try to prosecute anyone.
It is, the motor moves into generator modes and provides a smooth but significant retarding. It's not going to get you all the energy back you've put in (at best I'd say I recover 1 mile for every 50 I do), but it is the main brake I use, and it is linked to the front brake lever - you lightly squeeze it to activate the generator, and squeeze harder to apply the disc brake.
Front and back brakes are Magura MT4 Hydraulic disk brakes though.
You want to come to the Cevennes in France. There are plenty of small hills with a 1Km vertical climb averaging 1 in 12. I am sure they are easy compared to L'Alpe d'Huez, but you know it when you have been for a 30km run. Once you get back to London you won't even notice that little 135m climb.
Should be a good place to do a REAL test of of electric assistance, and the views if you cross the Gorge du Tarn, or climb the Corniche are spectacular.
I'd love to see that reviewed too... I've been watching that site with interest, but I've concluded that the company is either a hoax or out of business. The contact options have been disabled, and the purchase screens won't load for me. You can't find out about the company from the site either. The only review or information Google can find on it is a single source that says the bikes from India, but there are no other known sellers :-/
The price is pretty much too good to be true I fear :-(
It makes the 3 mile commute into work a breeze. And it comes with a twist and go throttle, it's easy to put together on an existing bike and the battery life is good.
You will need a torque arm to stop the motor from working itself out of the dropouts, and the only complaint I've really got is that they should include one in the kits.
Our company has 2 Flyers [1] which I'm allowed to use to cycle back and forth from home. I have a 17km (10½ miles) journey each way and each journey takes about 45 mins. It's not especially fast — support stops after 25Km/h and you only realise then how heavy the bugger is. The main reason that I use it rather than my ordinary bike is that I don't need to shower when I get in. It's a very comfortable and agreeable ride. I look on it more as a 45 min walk.
[1] These laddies here: https://www.flyer-bikes.com/int/range/t-series/models/#secondPage
... and I can basically confirm the review points.
One thing they don't tell you is that you can fit a child seat to this bike, so myself and my toddler have been doing our commute of bike+train+bike. If you think 26kg is heavy, then add another 15kg of child. Whilst I can get the bike and him up and down the stairs at the stations, I find that taking the lift is preferable.
The 16mph and then sudden drag is annoying. I cycle in Oxford, and that includes the lovely Headington Hill and Morrell Ave rises. Whilst I was accustomed to doing around 20mph on my previous bike (Trek Soho Deluxe - belt drive + 7 speed internal hub gears - but stolen a year ago and replaced by this bike), the fact I can now dawdle at 15mph and arrive feeling fresh at work/home opposed to arriving drenched in sweat after a good workout is the compromise.
Note that the replacement parts are expensive though! The optional front suspension is over £200 extra. The computer the drives the motor costs £125 to replace, and does not like to be dropped. My first computer developed a fault without being dropped, and so I replaced it, only for the next one to be dislodged from it's mounting by a pothole 3 weeks later, smashing the screen. Back to the original computer, which unfortunately got dropped today, and another smashed screen. The bike's weight can be an issue if it is knocked over (and it is pretty damn stable, even on the train), but mine has been at least once, and that caused one of the hydraulic brake levers to snap it's mounting - if I pay Smart prices, that's another £180 replacement!
Yes, the pedals are damn slippy, especially in the wet, and definitely so with office shoes on.
Good points though - I started off by getting 60 miles per charge, though more recently I seem to be down to 45-50, and the last two bars of battery result in a noticeable lack of assist on hill climbs now. The battery has a 2 year warranty, but it's not very clear what standard they use to judge that - one part of the manual suggests it has to hold only 70% of it's rated charge to be considered fine. Doing around 8 miles a day (on average - I've done 1700 miles since I got the bike last year), I can charge the bike once a week typically, and that's simple enough to do overnight.
I'm fairly fit (and used to being one of the quickest off the lights and into the distance) so I can move the bike manually if the battery does go flat (or I'm feeling like I want some exercise), and I still power away from the lights more from my own effort than the motor (the torque sensor can't quite keep up), but yes, unless you want to push and maintain 20mph (which you can do on this - though the top gear feels too low for it). I am about to replace the rear tyre though, as I've pretty much worn it smooth, whereas the front one is still fine - likely due to the weight and distance (I'm 100kg + 15kg child + 26kg bike)
The regenerative braking is one of my favourite things about this bike - it provides a nice smooth slow down, ideal for city usage (assuming you're paying attention to what's up ahead), and because of the electric assist, you can get out of the mindset of needing to maintain momentum and not wanting to stop (as is all to common amongst my cycling peers), so it does make it more comfortable and convenient to follow the rules of the road. The belt drive is also something I can recommend highly - no more getting grease on clothes or needing to oil the chain and gears, etc.
I got this bike on a deal (ex-demo, mk I bike, which I upgraded to the latest spec by adding the remote control pack - it's the extra thumb control buttons) so even with the replacement parts and extras (smartphone holder), I'm still well under the RRP of £1800 and happy with that. The style is lovely (though not always easy to lock to railings and bike stands, etc), the lights are great, even on country lanes at night, and the range is good too.
As they point out though, this is horses for courses :-)
It depends on how much extra you get done with your e-bike. I now do a 34-km round trip with the e-bike that I wouldn't do with my ordinary bike on the grounds that I'd be too sweaty afterwards. And I cycle in the lowest support mode (because these bikes are *very* heavy) by default. It might be that Iim doing the equivalent of 90 mins walking per day (each way takes me 45 mins), but it is still exercise that I wouldn't be doing if I were taking the train.
Not exactly sure what you mean by "over-favour", but in principle¹ most of your braking should be done on the front, as that's where you'll get the most friction as the inertia shifts your CoG forward. Obviously (or not, depending on one's experience), the rear brake would be preferred where there is a risk of loosing front-wheel grip or while turning, but the braking then is not as efficient.
¹ When considering braking as a means to reduce forward speed. On trials cycling, braking is primarily used as a means to finely control or stop wheel rotation. Likewise, on single-track mountain riding, rear braking is used as a means to control travel direction and vehicle attitude.
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