Fanbois: We paid $2000 for full satisfaction but now we have SPREADING STAINS Apple consumers are complaining that the company is ignoring their complaints about the anti-reflective MacBook coating peeling off in whacking great ugly patches. Ever-eager to embrace now-meaningless suffixes and lazy journalistic shorthand, the upset Apple boys and girls have dubbed this issue "Staingate", with a domain for …
If I bought a monitor from reputable vendor (NEC, for example) I would expect my complaint regarding picture quality to be taken seriously and covered by the guarantee. I very much doubt NEC or other serious monitor vendor would claim that permament stains in the active portion of the monitor are "cosmetic damage".
And yet Apple claims that these are cosmetic damage and thus are not covered by the guarantee - even when in the middle of the screen. Even more interestingly, the product is marketed and sold on the basis of its looks. When the looks are gone, what remains?
That is one to watch, I will grab my popcorn.
It was very different with Sony. I had a then expensive Sony Trinitron and that started to peel in the same way but not to the same extent. I sent them a picture they sent me a return pack to have it collected and sorted out. Perhaps one should check the OEM's history carefully to see if they stand behind their products once they stagger out of the showroom. I wonder who makes Apple screens?
Until an Apple gnome recognises it as a manufacturing problem they won't admit anything. When they finally do then guarantees will be silently extended for this problem on this model but they still won't admit anything. That's the way it's been done for years (Airport problems, Time Capsule problems, GPU problems, overheating problems, etc...)
Once the threshold of complaining users is reached, Apple will quietly launch a remediation program. There will be no fanfare or publicity push. By doing so, Apple hopes that if enough time passes, only a percentage of affected users will come forward for the fix. Then they can say, "hey we listened!" while only putting a small financial effort into the program. Apple's SOP.
Is it me, or has anyone noticed a lot of autocracy in the post Steve Jobs Apple?
Again, like the MacBook overheat/CPU contact problems that previously surfaced, Apple remain mum on the issue and when the consumer pressure reaches boiling point, they react on the situation..
Being a "poor" Apple user, I have two generations of 13" MacBook Pros (Core2Duo & i5) and don't suffer from this ailment as it seems to be restricted to the "€/$ 2K+" models.. I breathe a pseudo sigh of relief, but..... I have been strongly considering a larger MacBook Pro... until this epic fail hit the news sites and forums...
This [so called] "cosmetic damage non-warranty issue" (as Apple term it) makes any future investment in an 'upmarket' MacBook Pro a definite no, even if Apple were 'resolving the issue' as the inconvenience of handing it to an Apple Repair Centre for a week for a screen replacement would also piss me off and I have to ask, will they resolve the symptom by replacing the screen with the same type that comes second best to a lint cloth or actually solve the problem by providing a replacement that can stand up to the "rigours of regular cleaning"?
Let's see how the fruit firm react to this, because whether they like this or not, issues like this do a little more than just harming the reputation of Apple, it affects sales, sure I am a once-off type end user buyer, but it's one less shiny MacBook that will be sold in the short to medium term until they sort this crap out.
So, I'll hang on to my money, put the coffee machine on and microwave some popcorn until the "Big A" shuffles its feet on what I don't quite see as a "cosmetic issue"
"... issues like this do a little more than just harming the reputation of Apple ..."
I'm not sure that they do. We've been here before with "Antennagate" and so on and Apple's sales just keep going up and up.
It seems that buying an Apple product is less about the actual thing and more into buying into the cult. Very subjective and not susceptible to argument of any kind.
Apple are now in the position that MS was a few years ago. They think that they can do no wrong, any criticism or difference of opinion seems to be ignored and/or dismissed. "You are holding it wrong." or in this case "You are cleaning it wrong."
I agree to disagree..
I've been a Mac user for decades and much prefer OS X to Windows' offerings at every level..
There are those of us who hail from the PowerPC era of Apple Mac offerings, Jobs' return to Apple, the migration to x86 processors was great for Mac users, it was a fantastic era and the products were [are still?] good..
For the record, I neither use an iPhone or iPad, I prefer Android offerings when it comes to the touchy/feely part of technology
But.. I've come across more people asking my opinion on Macs because they've bought the Jesus phone and/or fondleslab and now want a desktop or laptop to complete the set.
Many who have taken the plunge and bought a Mac of any kind tend to use them for Office, browsing and iTunes (synch & music) they don't really use their Macs to the full potential, so more of a "fashion accessory" IMO
And yes, Apple seem to have the Microsoft-centric attitude of "ship now, fix later" which is why I am now critical and wary of newer Apple product offerings, there certainly has been a paradigm shift in product QC and Apple's attitude towards the end user as Apple seem more focussed on appeasing the stockholders than the customers...
Cult is exactly right.
Pay large sums of cash for each level, get an electronic suppository to keep away the spiritual cruft, watched over by a supreme alien being who happens to be dead. Its scientology for hipsters, I move to call it appology, and again much like scientology when anyone speaks out against their "religion" the appologists mount campaigns of disinformation and FUD.
ALL HAIL ZENU!! err...JOBS!!
If its a cult, then I can still agree with some of the doctrines without being a paid up member, or an apologist, just as I can agree with some Old Testament advice such as separating the clean from the unclean in the kitchen without being Jewish.
Just some ideas:
-16:9 isn't great for desktop use
- Adobe Flash on mobile devices is a shit idea
- Blue LEDs are just shit, unless you are a bona fide member of the emergency services - they don't make kit look 'high tech'. The same goes for boy racers who have stuck them on their Renault Clios.
- DRM on musicis shit
- Desktop applications should retain menus, and not swap them out for some newfangled Ribbon interface.
- MagSafe
- Just stick a 3.5mm headphone socket in it (you wouldn't believe the variety of proprietary headphone sockets from Nokia, Sony Ericsson, LG and Samsung back in the pre-Android days)
Now, I don't own any Apple kit, but neither do I throw the baby out with the bathwater. Credit Apple when it is due, and your criticisms of their occasional engineering, customer service or manufacturing cock-ups, and of their industry strong-arming, will carry far more weight.
>My biggest issue, though, is environmental - how much of what's in there is easily recyclable, and how much is toxic - or potentially toxic…?
Valid questions.
First up, making laptops that are are reliable and more powerful than the user needs increases their life and reduces the amount of recycling required. The longer a laptop battery lasts on one charge reduces the number of charging cycles over a year, meaning that the lifetime of the battery will be longer. The same goes for repairing - although Macbooks are tricky for amateurs to repair, Apple can repair them and sell refurbished units. Not ideal for some owners, but better than nothing.
Secondly: The less material and components in a machine, the less recycling is required. SSDs contain less material than spinning rust HDDs, laptops without an optical drive contain less material than those with them, etc.
Okay, onto recycling: The cases are aluminium. Non toxic, easily recyclable. By using glue instead of screws, the human labour of reducing a laptop to its constituent parts is reduced - batch process in an oven, or continually process on a conveyor belt through an oven.
That said, here is a Wired.com opinion piece that disagrees with everything I have just said. Personally, I would be worried if a Wired article agreed with me. You can judge for yourself the validity of their arguments: http://www.wired.com/2012/10/apple-and-epeat-greenwashing/
Toxicity: These days toxic materials are more of an issue during the manufacture of laptops than they an hazard within a laptop - people have more experience of using lead-free solder, and screen backlights are no longer the CCFL type that contain mercury. Green Peace seem optimistic: http://greenpeaceblogs.org/2014/08/15/apple-takes-first-steps-detox-manufacturing-supply-chain/
You'll be waiting a while, Apple doesn't appear to make laptops anymore, just fashion accessories for the 'more bling than zing' generation.
I'm not sure about autocracy but arrogance, certainly; yes, I know Apple has always been arrogant to a certain extent, but remember when their USP was their upgradability…? I don't WANT a glorified iPad that I'll have to replace in a couple of years, I want a functioning machine, with ports, and a 3.5mm jack socket, and MagSafe.
My biggest issue, though, is environmental - how much of what's in there is easily recyclable, and how much is toxic - or potentially toxic…? Jobs used to be keen to stress Apple's green cred, and got pretty litigious when Greenpeace suggested otherwise (no, I'm not a fan of Greenpeace, either).
Seems that, at Apple, only one Cook is needed to spoil the soup; I'd like to see him gone, which is why I'm hoping the Watch (love to see 'em attempt to trademark THAT!) and the new MB(P)s will be abject failures, maybe give the Board the excuse they need, though I don't think they've got the guts to oust him.
And now, I must kip. G'night, fellow hominids…
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I had thought (and been told) the reason they could justify higher prices was because of the level of support afterwards. iPhone breaks? Walk into store and get a replacement, etc, etc.
To be this petty about something like this?...
Anyway - there's plenty of laws about Apple having to support 2 years warranty - and I can't see a judge accepting it's "cosmetic damage".
"Cosmetic damage that looks to be caused by the end user! Why the fuck should Apple (or anyone else for that matter) be liable for that?"
1) because there is nothing cosmetic about blocking the functional area of the screen, so "cosmetic" is a lie.
2) Because they might like a repeat customer.
"Complaints have been mounting in the Apple Support Communities forum for a while, but have often been dismissed as a result of improper cleaning attempts and responded to with a link to Apple's cleaning guide."
Ah, yes, I well remember when the antenna problems led to Steve Jobs dismissing the complaints as a result of improper holding attempts.
Oh, wait, it was "you're holding it wrong" - same thing, but more to the point. Apple today just have no class with their responses.
"A tablet device that can withstand being doused in chlorine has been developed to help doctors caring for patients with Ebola." (BBC website)
Similar note: The NHS once considered iPads for nurses' note-taking devices - the lack of keys and tight tolerances on the split lines made them fairly easy to disinfect. The iPads (or was it iPhones, I forget) were not adopted because of battery life concerns.
Sony make waterproof tablets, but the official advice is to rinse them with fresh water after they have been submerged in chlorinated swimming pools or sea water. Seems tome that a portable computer for medics would be best fitted with a wireless charging coil, and the whole thing sealed in epoxy or similar.
A link about the tablet Anonymous IV mentioned:
http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/20/8267259/google-tablet-ebola-chlorine
It's a big lump of polycarbonate. No mention of it be charged wirelessly. Maybe the remote parts of Africa that it is being used in they can't afford the inefficiency of wireless charging. That said, a chlorine-resistant contact-charging system isn't too hard to engineer.
I am sure that somewhere Apple is tracking the reports to see if this is just noise or a real issue. If it is a real issue Apple have a reasonable track record of eventually getting around to fixing things and also reimbursing people who have already paid for a repair
What always amazes me is how badly some people treat expensive bits of tech and conversely some people treat stuff with kid gloves and don't understand why other people have problems.
A friend of mine called me up last year to say that her laptop screen (Lenovo) had broken in one corner. She had "just been cleaning it" to get rid of the "sneeze" marks. When pressed she confessed she had been cleaning it with her sleeve using her elbow. Not obviously the most delicate of cleaning techniques.
I was given a computer screen cleaning spray as a stocking filler last christmas. Made in China. Absolutely no indication of what it contained except warnings not to get it on the skin. It went straight to the back of the cupboard. Just had a quick smell of it and it smells like toilet cleaner and I reckon I could get pretty high after a few sniffs
So I guess what I am saying in a long winded way is that no company can predict what kind of stuff people will use to clean their screens and a bunch of people will be in total denial that it could be their own fault for treating their stuff like carp.
"So I guess what I am saying in a long winded way is that no company can predict what kind of stuff people will use to clean their screens and a bunch of people will be in total denial that it could be their own fault for treating their stuff like carp."
Totally agreed, they should obviously be treating it like the old trout that it is because carp just cant take a good scrubbing.
I am sure that somewhere Apple is tracking the reports to see if this is just noise or a real issue. If it is a real issue Apple have a reasonable track record of eventually getting around to fixing things and also reimbursing people who have already paid for a repair
But I ask, as a "far from cheap brand", why does it take a digital lynch mob to get Apple to "eventually" respond? It if was half a dozen users over three months complaining, sure, but this is literally hundreds of [now disgruntled] MacBook owners highlighting the issue under discussion!
Apple have been selling more than 3 million Macs a quarter for many years now and a lot of these are laptops. To date we have a few hundred people some who have owned their laptops for some time who may or may not have legitimate reasons to complain. That is a tiny tiny percentage of owners.
I have very confidence that Apple will do the right thing and they seem to have already replaced some laptop screens for some users from reports I have read.
It's pretty easy to bash Apple but they have a good track record for service and regularly top the customer satisfaction ratings. I have no affiliation to Apple, just my view
Source:
http://fortune.com/2014/04/19/how-many-macs-did-apple-sell-last-quarter-7/
"To date we have a few hundred people some who have owned their laptops for some time who may or may not have legitimate reasons to complain. That is a tiny tiny percentage of owners."
Thinking like this is why customer service has gone to (as another user said earlier) carp.
I don't think the OP was slighting the possibility of a problem, but pointing out that statistically that small a number of complaints (versus what has been sold) makes it very hard to figure out if it is a design flaw, or mistreatment from users. And LOTS of users mistreat their screens, and they are expensive to repair. So Apple hears a LOT of stories about "I wasn't doing nuttin', it just broke".
There may be a design flaw, there may be just a lot of people that don't know how to take care of their laptops appropriately and use harsh chemicals on it. But with that small (again, percentage wise) number of complaints, it isn't OBVIOUS that there is a design flaw.
The other thing is that, if you visit Cupertino, there are thousands of Macs there. If there was a widespread manufacturing defect in such a mainstream product, they would see it for themselves, most likely. And I am guessing that they haven't...none of my friends have a problem, and my 2+ year old MBP still looks good. But then, I am guessing that all Apple employees know what to use to clean a screen, and my friends and I are pretty competent with PCs. So...anecdotally, I have to say it is mistreatment not likely a defect...but would remain open to more statistical observation saying otherwise. Which is probably exactly where Apple is right now...
"To date we have a few hundred people some who have owned their laptops for some time who may or may not have legitimate reasons to complain."
In which case Apple have nothing to lose in sorting their problems as a goodwill gesture and everything to gain. In the scheme of things it costs them pennies but leaves everyone with a sense of "So moneysupermarket" (to coin a phrase) but the truth is they actually have a reputation of sticking two fingers up at people, whether that is justified or not I don't know I can only judge by what I read.
I am not an Apple hater, had a stint as admin. for an Apple network, wish I had the space to set up an old jelly-bean eMac, just for the retro-future feel.
... but really, the cult aspect is so absurd, and that the cult continues in spite of so many basic design flaws, this is only the latest of many!
I truly hope their watch has a similar fuck up. Might take that to discourage the worshippers at the shrine of St. Steve.
Then again, I suppose nothing will stop their devotees from being devotees, even the site gathering these complaints has an Apple-cult feel.
So, A couple of hundred complaints for devices that have sold into the millions and it's a design flaw? To re-iterate, less than 1 % of 1% of all devices sold are affected and this shows tat all Apple kit is overprited shite? Fuckwit.
"I am not an Apple hater"... "I truly hope their watch has a similar fuck up. Might take that to discourage the worshippers at the shrine of St. Steve."
Of course you're not an Apple hater. That's a completely rational and non-emotional thing to say.
I'm sure in the face of reason you'll claim that I'm a cultist. We'll my my friend, that make you a cult. Shit. 2 letters out...
I thiught this sort of thing was covered under the EU consumer protection regulations. Doesn't matter if it is over a year old if there is a design flaw as this certainly appears to be.
Take the thing back to the seller and ask for your money back, if they refuse then talk to the local trading standards office. Watch Apple backpedal at the speed of light.
Andy
The rubberised baseplate of my wife's Macbook started peeling. Not impressive for a £1000 laptop, when my ol' duffer HP still looks the nuts as it did on the day it was born.
It was covered by warranty, however they tried to wriggle out first, of it claiming it was wear n' tear. When I showed the support person the URL of their own bloody RMA program for the issue, he agreed to process it 'as a goodwill gesture'...
...only after pre-authing a £60(!) charge on my wife's card, with it being our cost to insure the return of the bin-fodder and heavy-handed promises to make the charge if the duffer wasn't received in their tight time-frame.
Where is the world going to, fanbois flapping down $2800,- for a $900,- Intel laptop from Apple complain about it ?. It is about time Apple changes its warranty regulations so it is entitled to fine fanbois going public with negative feedback about Apple products, or at least ban people from buying their products again.
The peeling screen is just another great invention that the eggheads at Apple made, it serves as a warning to inform users they need to replace the aging machine in order to maintain an optimal user experience.
No excuse given Apple profit margin.
My laptop anti-reflective screen is MUCH older and perfect. So old I won't divulge the model
Oh, please, please, please do... I've a fresh pot of coffee and popcorn on hand and your revelation could turn this smouldering discussion into an inferno...
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Isn't that a bit of an oxymoron? Either it's cosmetic and has no function or it's functional (ant-glare) and therefore not cosmetic.
Of course, that assumes the complainants are being totally honest and have done nothing to cause damage to the screen through any form of cleaning chemicals. It might be a bonding issue at the factory which is probably quite rare based on the numbers of complaints versus numbers sold. Or maybe those "clean" cloths used to clean the screens had been used for other cleaning duties and are now impregnated with some random cleaning chemical or other.
Obviously there are many possibilities, but for Apple to simply brush of the problem as user caused cosmetic damage is certainly not good customer service, even if denial is the default stance of most customer service these days. I'd have thought a company such as Apple would almost certainly be investigating at least a sample of these faults very closely and clearly stating that they are investigating. If they find it's their own fault, they will fix it and if they prove it's the customers then they can definitively state the cause. Either way, they end up looking better than they do simply denying there's a fault.
You know what I'd get for $2000? A computer and $1600 in my pocket. It's not the 1980s, I simply cannot imagine paying over $2000 for a personal computer these days.
(I specify "personal computer" because I know you can reasonably get a server that expensive if you get one with enough high availability bits and bobs (management interfaces, multiple power supplies, etc.), lots of CPUs, lots of RAM, multiple high-speed busses, etc.)
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