back to article Russia considers keeping its own half of the ISS alive after 2024

Russia has decided that if Europe ends its involvement in the International Space Station (ISS), it will undock and keep its half alive. A meeting of the Roscosmos science and technical council has recommended that the Russian space agency continue to support the ISS until 2024. After that, the Federal Space Agency statement …

  1. Dave Bell

    NASA is setting the date

    It's not so obvious in the story, but the 2024 date has been set by NASA. Since the ISS depends on reliable hardware, and some of it is getting pretty old, this may have good reasons. And since so much was set by Shuttle-era limits, we have to wonder what can be launched by 2024

    1. Alan Brown Silver badge

      Re: NASA is setting the date

      "Since the ISS depends on reliable hardware, and some of it is getting pretty old, this may have good reasons."

      It's not just the hardware that's an issue. What killed Mir wasn't aging kit, it was mould eating the structure:

      http://www.rense.com/general8/mir.htm

      Plenty more articles like that if you look for them. Mir was a highly unhealthy place to be breathing the air by the end of its lifespan.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. toxicdragon

        Re: NASA is setting the date

        That is the coolest and scariest thing I've read in a while, thanks.

        1. Vladimir Plouzhnikov

          Re: NASA is setting the date

          Open the window? They tried, but the hinges stuck - so they used a Progress to ram it open, and... Duh! No pressure!..

          1. Shannon Jacobs
            Holmes

            Vacuum is no joking matter, even for mold?

            Or "mould" as you might prefer. However, I think this branch of the thread was intended as a joke of the facetious sort, but why? It would certainly seem that they could wipe out any problematic growths of any sort simply by depressurizing the affected part of the space station for a while.

            Gets rid of odors, too. Take it back to that new space station smell.

  2. Voland's right hand Silver badge

    The more entertaining one would be if it is 2015, not 2024

    I am just waiting for the moment when they will decide that they had enough sabre rattling on behalf of the USA and Airstrip One side and detach their part of the space station (which carries most of life support, escape pods, etc) from the rest _BEFORE_ 2024. The way things going my bet is on the 12th of April 2015.

    1. phuzz Silver badge

      Re: The more entertaining one would be if it is 2015, not 2024

      Life support is split between the US and Russian sides, it's semi redundant (ie neither side could really cover the entire station on it's own).

      The 'escape pods' are currently two Soyuz spacecraft, but the aim of the NASA commercial crew program is to use either Dragon or the Boeing capsule as a lifeboat.

    2. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: The more entertaining one would be if it is 2015, not 2024

      "I am just waiting for the moment when they will decide that they had enough sabre rattling on behalf of the USA and Airstrip One side and detach their part of the space station"

      As the only currently viable source of man rated lift capability, they could just annex the non-Russian parts of the ISS.

      On a slightly more serious note, why would they have to separate if the US and/or EU decide not to continue? Those pulling out of the operation will have no further use for their modules other than to de-orbit and burn them up. Unless spite is part of the negotiations.

      1. Oninoshiko

        Re: The more entertaining one would be if it is 2015, not 2024

        Treaty prohibit appropriating other's space-kit, even if it's not in use. This is one of the major problems with any of the space-littler cleanup ideas, too.

        1. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: The more entertaining one would be if it is 2015, not 2024

          "Treaty prohibit appropriating other's space-kit, even if it's not in use"

          Treaties don't prohibit selling/buying it.

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: The more entertaining one would be if it is 2015, not 2024

        "they could just annex the non-Russian parts of the ISS."

        The US may have difficulties getting men into space right now but I don't think they would have any problems delivering explodie things. Maybe a docking "accident"?

  3. Dan 55 Silver badge
    Megaphone

    That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

    Sodding monkeys fighting over territory. We'll never get anywhere at this rate.

    1. Voland's right hand Silver badge

      Re: That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

      Correction your honor. Sodding howler monkeys.

      It is thankfully, 99% howling from the top of the tree (mostly for the benefit of your tribe) and 1% fighting.

    2. xenny

      Re: That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

      Trouble is, without the motivation of making better sticks to hit the other monkeys, we wouldn't have got this far technologically :-/

      1. No, I will not fix your computer

        Re: That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

        >>Trouble is, without the motivation of making better sticks to hit the other monkeys, we wouldn't have got this far technologically :-/

        Partially true, but you have things like the space shuttle, many people think it was a great achievement, and to be fair it was, however, it was a dead end, only ever capable of low earth orbit, specifically designed to have an enclosed bay to move satellites about without showing what you bring back, it was like saying "we no longer want to go past LEO" - and financially commit to nothing more (as it was very expensive), constrained by the military requirements.

        However, people like Sergei Korolev were flying rockets in the early 1930's before military involvement.

        Of course, the project really took off (pun intended) after the military funding, but imagine if we were not funding war, perhaps that money could be put towards good.

        As Tony Benn said, when talking about the founding of the NHS after WW2;

        "If you can find money to kill people...you can find money to help people"

        I always feel slightly uncomfortable when people say "Look at all the technological breakthroughs that war gave us", as if it's some kind of consolation prize, but I'm really not convinced, surely killing off a load of people (who would be in their prime) and spending vast sums of money to do so, can't possibly be better than using that money to build infrastructure, industry and putting most of them through university?

        1. et tu, brute?
          Thumb Up

          Re: I always feel slightly uncomfortable...

          I always feel slightly uncomfortable when people say "Look at all the technological breakthroughs that war gave us", as if it's some kind of consolation prize, but I'm really not convinced, surely killing off a load of people (who would be in their prime) and spending vast sums of money to do so, can't possibly be better than using that money to build infrastructure, industry and putting most of them through university?

          If I could upvote you for this multiple times, I would!

          Gives me hope that I'm not just a lonely voice on this subject...

          1. MondoMan

            war -- it's the motivation issue

            The prospect of you and/or your tribe facing enslavement or death is a powerful motivating force toward rapid progress. For most, creating a business empire, getting a Nobel prize, or naming a future great university -- not so much.

        2. Alan Brown Silver badge

          Re: That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

          "it was, however, it was a dead end, only ever capable of low earth orbit, specifically designed to have an enclosed bay to move satellites about without showing what you bring back,"

          That was the USAF's contribution to the design (along with the wings and all the other shit which made it so dangerous to launch they quickly gave up on it)

          The Shuttle was originally designed and intended to be a craft for building a space station and bringing down large cargo from it if needed. After all the other programs got cancelled all the conflicting requirements of various entities turned it into a camel and it ended up being a solution in search of a problem (that's not to say it didn't do good science - but it didn't do ENOUGH good science.)

          There is only one reason the shuttle program continued through the 1980s - national prestige. It was utterly unthinkable that the USSR could be putting humans in space whilst the USA was not. Because so many corners were cut in that flagwaving exercise, 14 people died doing up and coming down. The USA is only lucky that it was not more.

    3. MacroRodent

      Re: That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

      Isn't the situation also a bit like "2010" where the astronauts&cosmonauts orbiting Jupiter are informed that a war has broken out between the countries.... (or something like that. Unlike "2001", I have seen "2010" only once; it is definitely not in the same league as the first film).

      1. AbelSoul
        Trollface

        Re: That reminds me, I saw 2001 the other evening

        Unlike "2001", I have seen "2010" only once; it is definitely not in the same league as the first film

        I see you continue with your mastery of understatement.

  4. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    That MIR mold thing would not have happened.

    If they had the phones properly sanitised.

  5. Jagged

    Excellent programme on BBC4 last night, Cosmonauts: How Russia Won the Space Race

    (link for those with access to iplayer http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04lcxms)

    Seems what really killed Mir was not wanting to pay the Ukranians for their guidance system.

  6. Anonymous Coward
    Anonymous Coward

    space junk is a bit of a waste

    2024: Russia disconnects from the rest of the ISS, and then waits a few hours. Notices some useful looking space junk floating about, that it decides to pick up and use.

    Or considering how expensive it is to get anything into space, this junk could be kept up there, or maybe a tiny solar powered ion rocket attached to eventually dump this on the moon. It would be useful at a later date, even if that latter date is 1000 years from now.

    1. AbelSoul

      Re: space junk is a bit of a waste

      a tiny solar powered ion rocket attached to eventually dump this on the moon. It would be useful at a later date

      I like the idea but unless you can also come up with some way to land it softly on said moon, I'm not sure how useful it would be.

      1. This post has been deleted by its author

      2. Anonymous Coward
        Anonymous Coward

        Re: Re: space junk is a bit of a waste

        > I like the idea but unless you can also come up with some way to land it softly on said moon, I'm not sure how useful it would be.

        There is no need for a soft landing, it would be nice but not really possible with the mass involved. Even if it is just dumped there for raw metal and other materials that can be reprocessed at a later date, I would still see it as useful.

        There was an article here ages ago about using solar energy to melt moon dust into structures on the moon by tiny automated rovers.

        Having metal dumped there for later processing would still be useful, rather then letting it fall back to earth.

  7. BristolBachelor Gold badge

    I'm not sure if this is really news, or is just being said again to highlight the tensions.

    When the US (Europe?) originally said that the ISS would only have a short life, Russia was already saying that they would look at keeping their kit up and even building more on it. The fact is their last module will still smell of new paint on the planned retirement date (how's it going? got a launch date yet?)

    However, the way that the sabre rattling is going on all sides, I'm worried that the politics will get in the way.

  8. Gordon 10

    How they going to fund it?

    With the Ruble down the toilet?

    1. John Brown (no body) Silver badge

      Re: How they going to fund it?

      The value of the Ruble is only relevant for imports/exports. Russia is big with a lot of resources.. A Ruble collapse would have less of an effect than, say, the Euro.

      1. MondoMan

        Re: How they going to fund it?

        Governance is the true issue, not the ruble. Nigeria is also big with a lot of resources, and they couldn't even figure out if their citizens had been kidnapped en masse by boko haram!

    2. Martin Budden Silver badge
      Coat

      Re: How they going to fund it?

      If the ruble is down the toilet it's got plenty of liquidity.

  9. Crazy Operations Guy
    Coat

    Why go to the moon?

    And not the red planet?

    1. Tsunamijuan

      Re: Why go to the moon?

      If you can't get your manned mission to the moon and back, then how are you going to get a manned mission to mars and back?

      I am hazy on my Russian space history when it comes to moonshots. Its one thing to send a number of unmanned systems somewhere and fail. Its a whole different story to send manned flights. Not to mention its much easier to track said missions these days so it makes it more difficult to get them under the radar.

      This does make me wonder if we are going to see the race to the moon 2.0, as china has plans to head there. The united states has plans to go back. SpaceX is working capable hardware that could certainly make it their and back as a trial run for a mars shot (which we know they a interest in). I certainly wouldn't be against it, we made some huge tech advancements around the last major space race, that benefited all sorts of different industries, economies, and disciplines.

      1. Jagged

        Re: Why go to the moon?

        "I am hazy on my Russian space history when it comes to moonshots."

        - They had a rocket capable of getting there and a lunar lander etc etc. They certainly could have reached the moon, but after their lunar rocket blew up, there was no way they could beat the Americans and it was going to cost them more than they could afford. So they diverted their efforts to where they were "winning", long duration orbital missions.

    2. john mullee

      Re: Why go to the moon?

      mining Helium-3 (accumulated from solar wind at lunar poles)

      I read some time ago that 'a space-shuttle-ful of He3 would power the world for a year'

  10. Al Black

    Why go to the moon?

    When people say "Look at all the technological breakthroughs that war gave us", I say the Space Race gave us similar technological breakthroughs without the need for millions of deaths. A Mars Race would be both a moral equivalent of War, and a means of avoiding a real war on Earth. At some point in the next few million years (or tomorrow) a planet-busting asteroid will impact on Earth and do to us what it's predecessor did to the Dinosaurs. It would be nice if there were viable populations of humans living on the Moon, Mars and in orbit before this happens, so that after the Nuclear Winter ends, they could re-colonise the Earth. At the moment we have all our eggs in one basket.

    1. JCitizen
      Gimp

      Re: Why go to the moon?

      Nah! We'll all be crispy crittered by a gamma ray burst event, and the whole solar system will be uninhabitable.

      Maybe someone will perfect warp drive! ;)

    2. imanidiot Silver badge

      Re: Why go to the moon?

      Are you saying the space race WASN'T about war? It had EVERYTHING to do with developing that bigger stick (ICBMs and observation/intelligence satelites). The cold war might not have been a giant war on the scale of WW2 but the fighting in Korea and Vietnam had everything to do with it and in large part supplied motivation in that era for developing space technology.

  11. Roj Blake Silver badge

    15 Years to Get Back to the Moon...

    ...is something they've been saying for 30 years.

  12. Conundrum1885

    Its not that hard

    The latest idea is to outfit ISS with an EMDrive (Cannae Drive) as it has most of the required hardware including solar panel positioners.

    This would get around that annoying reboosting problem and allow otherwise useless hardware to serve some purpose as a lunar station.

    Also feasible would be adding radiation shielding to ISS using a superconducting magnet at each end powered by the same solar modules as once energized and kept at <120K they should be stable for years.

    1. imanidiot Silver badge

      Re: Its not that hard

      that is not an idea of anyone at NASA or Roscosmos. The EMdrive has not even been proven beyond doubt to WORK, let alone provide enough thrust to boost the ISS to higher orbits. Ion drive, maybe. EMdrive, not for atleast another 10 years. (By which time a decision and deorbit or disassembly of the ISS will already have happened)

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